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Heabob

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lakanto-white_1.jpg


http://bodyecology.com/sugar-substitute-lakanto-sweetener.html

Erythritol & Monk Fruit Extract

Amazon has smaller sizes for much less BTW.

Nude Nicotine had some info about these having a much higher temp rating before caramelizing.
And supposedly no aftertaste like Stevia & Sucralose.
Using a 10% solution in PG, or 5% solution in VG.
Sounds interesting, may have to try some.
 

Markw4mms

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Thanks for sharing. Let us know how it works out.
 

lirruping

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Nude Nicotine had some info about these having a much higher temp rating before caramelizing.
And supposedly no aftertaste like Stevia & Sucralose.

Does sucralose carmelize?! I assumed one of its virtues was that it did not, but I may be mistaken.
 

Alice in Vaporland

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Ooooo, something promising. Yay!! I'll be keeping a watchful eye on this one. Are you going to be our guinea pig, @Heabob ?
 

Jimi D

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Monk fruit is like 30% carbohydrate. Fructose and glucose. I'm sure it will gunk up.
 

Heabob

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Monk fruit is like 30% carbohydrate. Fructose and glucose. I'm sure it will gunk up.

The fruit is of course.
This stuff isn't, as it's safe for diabetics.
It also has Erythritol, (sugar alcohol).
Will find out I guess, worst case I can use in my Coffee, or for baking.

Stevia was also on the list as being better than sucralose.
Just have to keep it low enough to avoid the bitter after taste.
 
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mjag

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Does sucralose carmelize?! I assumed one of its virtues was that it did not, but I may be mistaken.

According to NN it does, here is a quote from there website and links to there new sweeteners that are more temp tolerant:

"Synthetic structures like sucralose have mass losses at lower temperatures (320F!!!), resulting in premature caramelization of coils and wicks, severely reducing atomizer performance. "

https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/erythritol-solution-5/

https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/stevia-solutions/
 

Heabob

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So if I wanted to make a 10% solution from this powder into 30ml PG.

I'd use 3.7g of powder ?
 

Alice in Vaporland

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Wow, it sounds like a mixer's dream! Can't wait to see the verdict, @Heabob and @mjag ...

I wonder if it will do the job of sweetening a whole mix, like adding sugar to a recipe?

See, I get a little bit confused when it comes to the different applications for the various sweeteners available for use in vape liquids. Here's what I've been taught, and you can let me know if i was given accurate information or not:

EM only brings out the inherent sweetness of other sweet flavors already present in the mix, (although in higher amounts, it's cotton-candy flavor starts becoming more and more pronounced, though that's beside the point here).

Sucralose, on the other hand, has an effect much like adding sugar to the mix, thereby adding sweetness on top of the flavors that are already present - not really changing the flavors themselves, but adding an additional taste in the form of "added sugar".

Am I even explaining this properly, I wonder? :huh: lol
 

Heabob

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EM only brings out the inherent sweetness of other sweet flavors already present in the mix, (although in higher amounts, it's cotton-candy flavor starts becoming more and more pronounced, though that's beside the point here).

(Maybe a better name for EM should have been "anti-sour_anti-bitter")
It actually takes the sharp edges off the fruits so they just seem to be sweeter IMO.
Adding some Cream in with fruits has almost the same effect, and use too much and the fruit taste disappears.
More of a cover up thing with Cream vs. the EM's muting, although the end result is almost the same.
Except I can actually taste the Cream first and the fruit second, albeit a pretty mild fruit taste.
I've never really been able to taste CC or EM, but, if I use any it's usually just 0.5% anyway.


Sucralose, on the other hand, has an effect much like adding sugar to the mix, thereby adding sweetness on top of the flavors that are already present - not really changing the flavors themselves, but adding an additional taste in the form of "added sugar".

I've had better luck with sweeteners when/if using 1-2 drops in 15ml.
But Stevia seems sweeter than Sucralose, even diluted, so in theory it takes less to get the same effect.
Too much and it hides the fruit taste and all I can taste is the sweetener.
And sometimes the after taste that comes with it.

However, being a diabetic, most anything sweet tasting for a non-diabetic becomes sickening sweet for me.
 
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Alice in Vaporland

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(Maybe a better name for EM should have been "anti-sour_anti-bitter")
It actually takes the sharp edges off the fruits so they just seem to be sweeter IMO.
Adding some Cream in with fruits has almost the same effect, and use too much and the fruit taste disappears.

Yes, that makes sense - quite good sense. I find Marshmallow is good for taking the edge off too at low percentages, and otherwise generally good at fluffing things up, as it were - sweet with a nice full, yet soft, mouth-feel.

I haven't yet encountered a 'cream take-over effect' with any of my mixes, even in an *insane* one I whipped up in early days. Allow me to tell you a tale, if you will :rolleyes:: I was following a recipe I found on some random page (any story that starts off like this is bound to contain trouble, right? lol) by someone who clearly couldn't have known what they were doing, because it contained 33% total flavoring (at the time, newbie-me thought that meant it would taste super-yum!). I believe 16% of it was various creams - Bavarian, Sweet, VBIC, and maybe something else - and the fruit portion was a mix of 2 Strawberry flavors, Blueberry, and Black Cherry... :facepalm: Good Lord, was it intense! I was quite disappointed with it, but my daughter swore it tasted just like waffles and syrup, and she rather liked it...go figure. lol
It was a 30 ml batch, and I didn't have the heart to dump it, so I put away in the uppermost cabinet in my kitchen (you know, the kind of place where bad e-liquids go to die), thinking I'd dilute it eventually, or find some way to put it to good use. Well, I came across it the other day when taking inventory, and just for kicks, I popped a couple mls in the tank, added some of CAP's VC v2 at 5% (I've been hooked on custards lately!), and believe it or not, it actually tasted halfway decent! Maybe the 3 month steep in the dark toned it down a little, eh? I mean yes, it's the most intensely flavored liquid I've ever vaped (save for Space Jam's "Venus": total overkill IMHO!), *but* it wasn't absolutely awful like it was as a shake & vape, and oddly enough, the creams and fruits were equally balanced on the palette, making for an intensely creamy, super-fruity taste. Very "in-your-face", as they say. ;) lol


I've never really been able to taste CC or EM, but, if I use any it's usually just 0.5% anyway.

I've had good luck in being able to taste those 2 very well. Cotton Candy vapes are some of my favorites. I have quite a long list of varieties I'd like to experiment with, such as Strawberry Watermelon Cotton Candy, and I've even mixed it half and half with Vanilla Custard in-tank on a few occasions, because I just LOVE the sweetness! ...Vanilla Custard Cotton Candy: yup, it's a thing in my world. lol

But Stevia seems sweeter than Sucralose, even diluted, so in theory it takes less to get the same effect.
Too much and it hides the fruit taste and all I can taste is the sweetener.
And sometimes the after taste that comes with it.

Sucralose is one I just can't do. I loathe artificial sweeteners, exactly because of the aftertaste - ick! :blech: Like you, my Dad was a diabetic, so I grew up drinking a lot of diet soda - but once I found that aspartame and sucralose are excito-toxins, I stopped consuming anything that lists them as ingredients. I may try Stevia, or the Monk Fruit Extract if it turns out to be as awesome as I hope it is!

However, being a diabetic, most anything sweet tasting for a non-diabetic becomes sickening sweet for me.

...something tells me my mixes would be sweet enough to gag you. :confused: lol Shame about the diabetes though - I hope it's not giving you too much grief. As an aside, I read a post from a diabetic who was afraid that vaping was elevating their blood sugar level. Can that happen that you're aware of? I shouldn't think one would absorb any great deal of sugar from vapor absorption, unless maybe they sat in a sauna full of it for a few hours...

Apologies if the super-long response has been rather tedious to get through...feeling wordy tonight! :blah: <<Me. lol Too much coffee this eve, methinks. :coffee2: ;)

Cheers! :D
 

Heabob

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I read a post from a diabetic who was afraid that vaping was elevating their blood sugar level.

Vaping hasn't bothered me yet, I just need to stay out of the munchies:D.

I suspect that some of those super high flavored recipes are actually "muting" themselves over time to become something decent.
When they start getting around 20% + total flavoring, I cut them in half to try out first, less flavoring=less steeping usually.
But I've also heard that the Creams and Vanillas need to steep for a month like Custards to develop properly IDK.
TFA/CAP Bavarian Cream is one that needs more time I think, as it seems less sharp after 2 weeks.

I find Marshmallow is good for taking the edge off too at low percentages, and otherwise generally good at fluffing things up, as it were - sweet with a nice full, yet soft, mouth-feel.

Yep, that one is kind-of a magical flavor and it seems to work in anything IMO.
0.5-1% FA Coconut is another one that does magical tricks by adding a creamy/butter effect I think.
 

Heabob

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Well my Lakanto Monkfruit Sweetener came today and it's disappointing at best.

Crystals won't dissolve in PG even with some heat and stirring.
A pinch has no where near the sweetness of sugar IMO.
So far Stevia seems to still be the winner for sweetness.
And the sucralose sweeteners of course.
 

Carmmond

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(Maybe a better name for EM should have been "anti-sour_anti-bitter")


However, being a diabetic, most anything sweet tasting for a non-diabetic becomes sickening sweet for me.
Darn I'm type one so I was so hoping this would work out good.... as for the question about the sweet juice affecting blood sugar I have seen it happen if I go on a rampage but in truth the nic is probably worse for us. Still way better than the sticks though!
 

Alice in Vaporland

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Well my Lakanto Monkfruit Sweetener came today and it's disappointing at best.

Crystals won't dissolve in PG even with some heat and stirring.
A pinch has no where near the sweetness of sugar IMO.
So far Stevia seems to still be the winner for sweetness.
And the sucralose sweeteners of course.

Well darn it. Was worth a shot though, eh? Thanks for trying it out and letting us know!
 

Alice in Vaporland

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Thanks @Heabob for posting your impressions so quick, I hadn't ordered it yet so will skip it. As soon as I get the other sweeteners from Nude Nic I will make sure and post my impressions.
Looking forward to your findings - staying tuned!
 

mjag

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Finally got the Erythritol Solution (5%) and Stevia Solution (7.5%) today but with the long weekend probably won't have a chance to try until next week. I also picked up some Ascorbic acid which is supposed to be a alternative to Citric Acid, give fruits a boost and souring effect at higher %.

I am going to try both sweeteners in different versions of the same mix to see if I can tell a difference. The Stevia is said to be twice as potent so I will mix it at 1% and the Erythritol at 2%, more than I would normally use but want to really get a taste of the sweeteners.

I am hoping I can get this done in about a week, will mix up the Ascorbic acid in a 3rd bottle to see what effects it has on the same mix compared to the sweeteners.

I am thinking just a simple Strawberries and Cream, nothing too complicated. Or maybe I should do a single flavor Pineapple mix? Not sure right now what would be best.
 

fq06

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Finally got the Erythritol Solution (5%) and Stevia Solution (7.5%) today but with the long weekend probably won't have a chance to try until next week. I also picked up some Ascorbic acid which is supposed to be a alternative to Citric Acid, give fruits a boost and souring effect at higher %.

I am going to try both sweeteners in different versions of the same mix to see if I can tell a difference. The Stevia is said to be twice as potent so I will mix it at 1% and the Erythritol at 2%, more than I would normally use but want to really get a taste of the sweeteners.

I am hoping I can get this done in about a week, will mix up the Ascorbic acid in a 3rd bottle to see what effects it has on the same mix compared to the sweeteners.

I am thinking just a simple Strawberries and Cream, nothing too complicated. Or maybe I should do a single flavor Pineapple mix? Not sure right now what would be best.

Looking forward to hearing about those, need nic and was going to throw those 3 new sweeteners in the cart with it.
 

Jimi D

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I purchased Erythritol about a year ago. All it did was mute my flavors and gunked the coils to hell. I then tried it in my coffee and wound up throwing the entire bag away. That was the last time I'll ever try an artificial sweetener. To me they're a waste of time.
 

Heabob

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Lakanta Erythritol & Monk Fruit Extract: I also tried a tsp. in my coffee and it left a strange aftertaste I didn't like at all.
And not very much sweetness either...
Stevia is better, or maybe I'm just more used to it after using it for so many years.
 

Jimi D

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Lakanta Erythritol & Monk Fruit Extract: I also tried a tsp. in my coffee and it left a strange aftertaste I didn't like at all.
And not very much sweetness either...
Stevia is better, or maybe I'm just more used to it after using it for so many years.
Exactly man ! Erythritol tasted worse than saccharin to me.
 

fq06

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Have you guys tried them from nude nic? Got an email from them that got me interested, I haven't used a synthetic sweetener in a long time but for $5 a pop I'll try the RA and monk fruit.

Copied from the email...


Stevia 95% Rebaudioside A (RA): Rebaudioside A is a very particular component of the stevia leaf - a natural product purified by chromatography and prepared for our use exclusively. Setviol glycoside blends, the more common versions of stevia seen on the market, are riddled with fillers, which lower the melting point and will degrade vaping performance. Rebaudiosides in these mixes, like the stevia in table sugar packets, are commonly in the sub 5% concentration. Purified Rebaudioside A is a true performance sweetener, and is EXTREMELY potent!!! 200x the sweetness of sugar on paper, but in candid vaping, the sweetness is MUCH more pronounced and "wet" than that of sucralose or erythritol :)

Monk Fruit Extract: Monk Fruit Extract is one of our three natural eLiquid sweetener alternatives for those looking to stray away from synthetics. Luo Han Guo AKA Monk Fruit is a sweetener native to Asia whose fruits are dried and purified to obtain the blend of mogrosides needed for use as a sweetening agent. Synthetic structures like sucralose have mass losses at lower temperatures (320F!!!), resulting in premature caramelization of coils and wicks, severely reducing atomizer performance. The Mogrosides in the Monk Fruit Extract are EXTREMELY heat stable, withstanding temperatures up to 1100F without degradation or major mass loss. This is a performance sweetener if there is one. 300x sweeter than sugar, Mogrosides are very unique in their sweetening characteristics; a blend of the 11 major mogrosides is key in this natural sweetener. Monk Fruit Extract Solution can be used as a direct replacement for Ethyl Maltol, similarly sweet and as a modifier in desert and bakery flavors. The sweetness of the Luo Han Guo extract is unparalleled in its flavor - there is nothing else available like this on the market :)
 

Heabob

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Got an email from them that got me interested, I haven't used a synthetic sweetener in a long time but for $5 a pop I'll try the RA and monk fruit.

The Stevia is a better sweetener mostly because you don't need to use a ton of it...
Therefor it has less impact on the taste, and more on sweetness.
And you can buy RA Stevia anywhere and dilute it to your preferred strength using PG or VG.
I've been using NOW brand Better Stevia in Glycerite(VG) at 25% dilution in PG.
1-3 drops in 15ml adds plenty of sweet for me if needed.
 

fq06

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Yeah but unless I'm misunderstanding this they are not offering regular stevia.
Who knows, maybe these two will sit in the flavoring shelf unused with the rest of the sweeteners I have but $10 won't be the worst waste of money if they are no different than all the other sweeteners.
 

fq06

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Reading that they are extracting Rebaudioside from stevia and processing it for vape use.

Who knows, I haven't found anyone on VU talking about it so maybe it's a fail, maybe not.
 

Heabob

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fq06

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Got some monk fruit from Nude Nic a couple weeks ago and mixed up a plum juice with their Make Me Plum concentrate (awesome @2.25% to 2.75% depending on how flavorful you like juice. Uncap for an hour a couple times during steep to let alcohol breathe out) and my favorite VT nic.

I have mixed with their plum before so I have a reference without sweetner and I used 1% monk fruit in my first batch. Made 15ml to try it.

It adds a very natural sweetness and is by far the best sweetener I've used. I don't like the chemical taste sucralose or stevia adds or the muting of EM and you can't taste anything from the monk, it just adds sweet... at least in a fruit mix.

I also mixed up a butterscotch/custard with it to try it in that type of flavor but I won't be touching that one for another 2 weeks.
 
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Heartwood

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So if I wanted to make a 10% solution from this powder into 30ml PG.

I'd use 3.7g of powder ?
Hey not sure if anyone answered you on that? I just started browsing through this. w/v ratios can be tricky. Your aim is for 10% or 100mg/ml there are 1000mg in a gram. So 1g will make 10ml @ 10%. However if you add 1g of powder to 10ml PG you will end up with something like 11.2 ml with the same 1000mg disbursed in it making you final solution 8.9%. You won't know how much the volume is going to increase. Because all powders have different volumes by weight. You can avoid this by adding the powder to your graduated cylinder first and then filling it up to your desired finish volume. Be sure all the powder is well saturated if not dissolved before you hit your desired mark.
 
Well my Lakanto Monkfruit Sweetener came today and it's disappointing at best.

Crystals won't dissolve in PG even with some heat and stirring.
A pinch has no where near the sweetness of sugar IMO.
So far Stevia seems to still be the winner for sweetness.
And the sucralose sweeteners of course.

Both Erythritol and Monk Fruit are unique in that they cannot be dissolved in anything except pure VG. Not even water or alcohol will work with Erythritol. Even then, any amount of the powder/crystals that cannot be absorbed by the VG will precipitate as a white, powdery residue at the bottom. It is true, however that BOTH sweeteners are extremely resistant to heat, and will not gunk up the coils and cotton nearly as much as any other sweetener, including sucralose. Although Sucralose doesn't cause the body to respond to it as sugar, it is still basically a sugar molecule, and thus will caramelize and burn quite readily at vaping temps.
 

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