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Michigan first state to ban flavored ecigs

gsmit1

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"Turns into antifreeze...": HAHA!!

This is what we're up against folks. This is an EXPERT :D The debate is over. An EXPERT has spoken. 95% of the public will believe these "EXPERTS."

As long as that's the case, NO amount of advocacy will make any difference. You're dreaming if you think it will.
 

jwill

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I smell a class-action lawsuit. There is a lot of "potentially" being used (ie. speculation). A good defense attorney should have a field day with that.

Potentially is no good when supposedly dealing in facts and data.
 

DaBunny

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We Don't live in Michigan
YET
I been stocking up BULK on nicotine..
figure the best flavors are used by the GREAT chiefs.
PG and VG are already in common use..
so am GLAD i found you folks here at VU
cuz here i found the tested recipies with people willing to share the opinions and experance.
 

gsmit1

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I smell a class-action lawsuit. There is a lot of "potentially" being used (ie. speculation). A good defense attorney should have a field day with that.

Potentially is no good when supposedly dealing in facts and data.
This looks like a state executive order. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that means it would have to be declared against either the Michigan State or the US Constitution by the Michigan state supreme court. And if they didn't see it our way, then appealed to the US supreme Court, which they would never agree to hear a case like this I doubt.

In any event, any of these possibilities would take significantly longer to even see the inside of a courtroom than the 6-month ban itself.

On a cheerier note, at least for the time being, I'm thinking that enforcement of online sales might be a problem.
 

gsmit1

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I'm out on a job in an office building, and the story was just on TV in the break room. I'm in Michigan by the way.
 

IcepickMaker84

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Im so upset right now...i don't even have words.

Does this mean i can no longer buy fruity menthol vape juice? Can i order it from somewhere else and have it sent to me?
Can i make my own?
Oh dear.... I'm going to have a melt down.

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If you need help getting liquid let me know, I don’t mind moving mail in your direction.
 

jwill

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It is definitely the beginning. This shit is getting critical mass level stupid and we are witnessing a real-life "Reefer Madness" style prohibition taking place under the guise of "Saving Children". We all know what is going on, and why. It's disgusting and despicable.

I really feel bad for people who will never get the chance to quit smoking. We need to make a thread of all anti vaping advocates. Find out who donated to their campaigns, and be sure never to vote for these sorry piles of flesh again.
 

ajvapes

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I have decided not to buy that 2020 mustang that I thought I might buy next year. Or any product from MI, as you know any product that comes in contact with water there may be contaminated with lead and other heavy metals. How else could anyone explain the insanity and sheer stupidity of it's governor.....:devil:
 

Jinx'd

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"Turns into antifreeze...": HAHA!!

This is what we're up against folks. This is an EXPERT :D The debate is over. An EXPERT has spoken. 95% of the public will believe these "EXPERTS."

As long as that's the case, NO amount of advocacy will make any difference. You're dreaming if you think it will.


here is what will happen. vapers, like us, will educate the general "ignorant" public. as this snowballs, the general public will realize that all that is crap. and then it will be ineffective. i have already "educated" many ignorant publics. they now know the truth.

just today, someone said "hey, did you see the lung problems !" i said "yeah, dumbass's vaping bootleg shit.= hey ! lets put antifreeze in our vapes !" . i also said "vape is much like food, some people get sick from some foods". that nipped that in the bud.
 

Rhianne

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"Turns into antifreeze...": HAHA!!

This is what we're up against folks. This is an EXPERT :D The debate is over. An EXPERT has spoken. 95% of the public will believe these "EXPERTS."

As long as that's the case, NO amount of advocacy will make any difference. You're dreaming if you think it will.

They’re trotting that out again from 5-6 years ago. People believed it then and most likely will believe it now. Apparently a form of glycol not used in juice is/was used in antifreeze. It goes along with popcorn lung, teen vaping epidemics, and gangs of thugs ripping off vape gear all over the place. :grrr:


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

MyMagicMist

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Oh yea we are. Just look at some of the comments on that article. The stupidity is spreading like wildfire & this is just the start...

I had to stop reading the posts out of sheer anger

Not to add to your anger something though worth noting. Jeff Bezos owns WP, yes the same Amazon Jeff Bezos. That is who controls the "media" in this case.

Recently read that vaping is earning more than Chantix (varenicline). Can speculate Pfizer is greasing the palms of WP & politicians, so called "experts". Vaping being direct competition to their "wonder drug" to help stop smoking.

David was small compared to Goliath. A Death Star has a weakness. :)
 

MyMagicMist

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Take a listen to THIS highly enlightened Michigander LOL!

So apparently even if I did not have brain damage at birth (which KS does create some form/s of brain damage), I got it from tobacco use from age seven onward. I probably ought to say age thirteen as that was when I started smoking tobacco. I used snuff and chew though before that off and on. The point being my tobacco use contributed to brain damage, huh?

Ain't that grand? Now, I know why I think such weird thoughts as wheat thrashing machines are evil. It is not some half baked psychological need to belong to the Luddites, or Wobblies, Hillbillies, Rednecks. No, it is because tobacco gave me brain damage.

But I like using nicotine. Guess I'll stay here in WV. Sure our water is contaminated as well. I mean how else can we explain Moth-Man? How do we explain the cannibals in Logan county? We do love Dow chemical, DuPonte, G.E. though for all the lovely jobs they do not bring us. We actively allow them to dump toxins in the Ohio River, which in turn lets the area we live in be known as Chemical Valley. At least I won't drink MI water. Ha! Fooled 'em all and wore a rubber.
 

MyMagicMist

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I thought of that too! It’s a cool idea if it could be worked out.

Well as it is obvious there's a THC vaping black market. Want to figure there's not already a vaping black market?

I figure what will happen is folks buy unflavored juice, then buy flavorings at some place like Bull City. It isn't difficult to do relatively clean DIY adding flavors to unflavored juice. Granted it is an extra added annoyance of a step we ought not have to do. Imagine though a DIY person catering to unflavored users.

"Send me 1 L of your unflavored juice, I'll send back (3) 250 ml bottles of flavored juices to you. I'll keep (1) 250 ml bottle unflavored to offset mixing flavors you choose, will make flavors I choose and sell," could be stated by such a DIY person.

Barter & trade, gift economy here we are.
 

nadalama

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So apparently even if I did not have brain damage at birth (which KS does create some form/s of brain damage), I got it from tobacco use from age seven onward. I probably ought to say age thirteen as that was when I started smoking tobacco. I used snuff and chew though before that off and on. The point being my tobacco use contributed to brain damage, huh?

Ain't that grand? Now, I know why I think such weird thoughts as wheat thrashing machines are evil. It is not some half baked psychological need to belong to the Luddites, or Wobblies, Hillbillies, Rednecks. No, it is because tobacco gave me brain damage.

But I like using nicotine. Guess I'll stay here in WV. Sure our water is contaminated as well. I mean how else can we explain Moth-Man? How do we explain the cannibals in Logan county? We do love Dow chemical, DuPonte, G.E. though for all the lovely jobs they do not bring us. We actively allow them to dump toxins in the Ohio River, which in turn lets the area we live in be known as Chemical Valley. At least I won't drink MI water. Ha! Fooled 'em all and wore a rubber.

Well on the flip side of what I'm taking as sarcasm, and I know I'm gonna sound like an arrogant asshole, I've smoked cigs for 39 years and vaped for 8 years. I also used all kinds of illegal substances for about five years when I was young. There's no damn sign of brain damage in me.

I work in a technology field and am the best in my department at what I do. I am smart, but NICOTINE HELPS ME DO MY JOB. I'm also 64 years old.

I might drop dead from a stroke or heart attack five minutes from now, but it won't be because of vaping. It'll be because of my family's genetics and the fact that I've done a shitty job of taking care of myself in a lot of other ways besides vaping, for god's sake. I eat like my seven-year-old grandson. Pecan Sandies are a fucking food group to me.

The thing that gets me about this and SO MANY OTHER THINGS in today's world is that people are just BEGGING to be led by the nose into bullshit. Just begging to believe some ridiculous shit that if you opened your eyes and used a brain cell for a fucking second, you'd be able to see and understand for yourself that you're just being fed a pile of LIES.

LIES LIES AND NOTHING BUT LIES EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK. Oh for Christ's sake.
 

wildgypsy70

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Im so upset right now...i don't even have words.

Does this mean i can no longer buy fruity menthol vape juice? Can i order it from somewhere else and have it sent to me?
Can i make my own?
Oh dear.... I'm going to have a melt down.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
You should be able to make your own. It’s pretty easy. We can definitely help you get started.
 

wildgypsy70

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Well as it is obvious there's a THC vaping black market. Want to figure there's not already a vaping black market?

I figure what will happen is folks buy unflavored juice, then buy flavorings at some place like Bull City. It isn't difficult to do relatively clean DIY adding flavors to unflavored juice. Granted it is an extra added annoyance of a step we ought not have to do. Imagine though a DIY person catering to unflavored users.

"Send me 1 L of your unflavored juice, I'll send back (3) 250 ml bottles of flavored juices to you. I'll keep (1) 250 ml bottle unflavored to offset mixing flavors you choose, will make flavors I choose and sell," could be stated by such a DIY person.

Barter & trade, gift economy here we are.
The future.....
 

wildgypsy70

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It is definitely the beginning. This shit is getting critical mass level stupid and we are witnessing a real-life "Reefer Madness" style prohibition taking place under the guise of "Saving Children". We all know what is going on, and why. It's disgusting and despicable.

I really feel bad for people who will never get the chance to quit smoking. We need to make a thread of all anti vaping advocates. Find out who donated to their campaigns, and be sure never to vote for these sorry piles of flesh again.
This^^^
 

wildgypsy70

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Well on the flip side of what I'm taking as sarcasm, and I know I'm gonna sound like an arrogant asshole, I've smoked cigs for 39 years and vaped for 8 years. I also used all kinds of illegal substances for about five years when I was young. There's no damn sign of brain damage in me.

I work in a technology field and am the best in my department at what I do. I am smart, but NICOTINE HELPS ME DO MY JOB. I'm also 64 years old.

I might drop dead from a stroke or heart attack five minutes from now, but it won't be because of vaping. It'll be because of my family's genetics and the fact that I've done a shitty job of taking care of myself in a lot of other ways besides vaping, for god's sake. I eat like my seven-year-old grandson. Pecan Sandies are a fucking food group to me.

The thing that gets me about this and SO MANY OTHER THINGS in today's world is that people are just BEGGING to be led by the nose into bullshit. Just begging to believe some ridiculous shit that if you opened your eyes and used a brain cell for a fucking second, you'd be able to see and understand for yourself that you're just being fed a pile of LIES.

LIES LIES AND NOTHING BUT LIES EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK. Oh for Christ's sake.
Rock on, sister!
 

MyMagicMist

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Well on the flip side of what I'm taking as sarcasm, and I know I'm gonna sound like an arrogant asshole, I've smoked cigs for 39 years and vaped for 8 years. I also used all kinds of illegal substances for about five years when I was young. There's no damn sign of brain damage in me.

Yes a good portion of it was sarcastic. I do have some minor bit of brain damage but have had it since birth, and I am quite literally someone gifted as a genius despite said damage. A lot of the damage causes stuff like cognition issues and sees me fighting anhedonia (lacking sense of satisfaction, joy, happiness due to the dopamines not being in my brain). No, you in no way read as an arrogant asshole.

I had about a hard nine months of illicit drugs, little of this, little of that and figured the one thing was alright for being natural. I no longer use anything illicit as a matter of choice, though I'll also say if the one thing can be legal here I'd enjoy relaxing with use of it a few times a month. It does help and even merely the CBD does help. I have better sense of priorities now though as an older person, and do not desire the troubles anything like that might bring.

I don't figure nicotine has contributed to any great impact on me physically. Have been reading with learning about vaping and see that yes it like caffeine is addictive. Well, I'm also addicted to eating, drinking water, living. Think a lot of us are addicted to those and caffeine, nicotine. Nicotine lets me put together two thoughts which is helpful when I have sometimes hundreds of random ones that make sense but do not.

I agree with you too on folks not engaging the brain. I try to remember I need to talk,talk before i think. :) Sometimes I let passion have the better of me but do work at that.
 

gsmit1

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dopulaba99c.gif


I just got back from METRO BOLT AND FASTENER where I go to get hard to find screws for my vape gear. The guy in there knows that I vape and asked me about all this hysteria. Please note, he actually ASKED me. He didn't tell me what a moron I was because I vape. I gave him a rundown on the situation, he asked intelligent questions and also actually cared what the answers were. I went home and made him a copy of A Billion Lives. He is enthusiastically looking forward to watching it.

He told me that whenever he sees the powers that be get this exercised over something he's automatically suspicious that there are ulterior motives.

An independently thinking, levelheaded American!! I hope to have pics of bigfoot by next week.
 
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nadalama

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adloupba998.gif


I just got back from METRO BOLT AND FASTENER where I go to get hard to find screws for my vape gear. The guy in there knows that I vape and asked me about all this hysteria. Please note, he actually ASKED me. He didn't tell me what a moron I was because I vape. I gave him a rundown on the situation, he asked intelligent questions and also actually cared what the answers were. I went home and made him a copy of A Billion Lives. He is enthusiastically looking forward to watching it.

He told me that whenever he sees the powers that be get this exercised over something he's automatically suspicious that there are ulterior motives.

An independently thinking, levelheaded American!! I hope to have pics of bigfoot by next week.

Oh jeez, if you only knew the relationship I have with Bigfoot. ROTFL! And aliens of course, and the Chupacabra, etc etc. See, I have a husband, who is normally a perfectly rational and intelligent individual. He just has this one, um, irrationality! :p :D :giggle:

I hope you took photos, though, if you found a living, breathing, THINKING American today. You should make it the background on your phone, to remind yourself that such a thing does exist.

Thanks for the chuckle.
 

ajvapes

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Oh jeez, if you only knew the relationship I have with Bigfoot. ROTFL! And aliens of course, and the Chupacabra, etc etc. See, I have a husband, who is normally a perfectly rational and intelligent individual. He just has this one, um, irrationality! :p :D :giggle:

I hope you took photos, though, if you found a living, breathing, THINKING American today. You should make it the background on your phone, to remind yourself that such a thing does exist.

Thanks for the chuckle.
A blast from the past...
yetti2.jpg
 

WarpedFactor

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I have to ask about the impact this will have on DIY. I DO DIY, but I know it is not for everyone, and frankly, it worries me that runaway DIY could make matters worse. I know it's not rocket science, but there are a few ways for folks who have never done chemical compounding to get it dangerously wrong, or even go off and try some boneheaded ideas without realizing that what they are doing could be harmful. I am not saying that everybody needs a babysiter, or a degree in chemistry, but it seems our government wants to bubblewrap us, and if injury or illness due to improper, DIY compounding became a serious issue, it could be over for all of us, all over.
 

ajvapes

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I have to ask about the impact this will have on DIY. I DO DIY, but I know it is not for everyone, and frankly, it worries me that runaway DIY could make matters worse. I know it's not rocket science, but there are a few ways for folks who have never done chemical compounding to get it dangerously wrong, or even go off and try some boneheaded ideas without realizing that what they are doing could be harmful. I am not saying that everybody needs a babysiter, or a degree in chemistry, but it seems our government wants to bubblewrap us, and if injury or illness due to improper, DIY compounding became a serious issue, it could be over for all of us, all over.
Initially it should not effect diy but I will stock up soon. if a federal ban extends to diy components then it will be time to bake cakes for a hobby. You are correct that if these bans continue there will be bathtub vape juice and some will be made from the cheapest crap that they can find.
 

nadalama

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I have to ask about the impact this will have on DIY. I DO DIY, but I know it is not for everyone, and frankly, it worries me that runaway DIY could make matters worse. I know it's not rocket science, but there are a few ways for folks who have never done chemical compounding to get it dangerously wrong, or even go off and try some boneheaded ideas without realizing that what they are doing could be harmful. I am not saying that everybody needs a babysiter, or a degree in chemistry, but it seems our government wants to bubblewrap us, and if injury or illness due to improper, DIY compounding became a serious issue, it could be over for all of us, all over.

We have to be careful as a society about how much we expect the powers-that-be to protect us from ourselves. That's how a lot of this kind of mess gets started. I am not well versed in the history of the FDA, (although my best bud from high school spent 25 years working there and, oh, the stories she can tell!) but I imagine its original purpose was to protect the public from unscrupulous manufacturing/drug/agricultural entities. Now it takes the liberty of making decisions about vaping when smoking and alcohol have been left virtually undisturbed, and canna*is is becoming legal in more and more places.

The sermon I have in my mind is the same here as it is for a multitude of other scenarios. If you want the RIGHT to do a thing, you have to take the RESPONSIBILITY of it as well. That's what a lot of people refuse to understand. They refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. And it's a helluva power trip for certain governmental entities and other groups of do-gooders who get their jollies "protecting" people from their own ignorance.

You wanna do DIY, well, knock yourself out. But if you do something stupid and hurt yourself, it's no one else's fault.

It's different if the manufacturer of VG let a batch get through that has Drano in it or something like that. That is negligence, possibly criminal negligence, depending on circumstances. But if you decide you're gonna vape paint thinner or you're gonna put a little illegal something-or-other in your juice, that's on you, and you've no right to complain.

And I don't mean you, as in YOU. I mean you, as in anybody who could decide to do or not do such a thing.
 

jwill

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We have to be careful as a society about how much we expect the powers-that-be to protect us from ourselves. That's how a lot of this kind of mess gets started. I am not well versed in the history of the FDA, (although my best bud from high school spent 25 years working there and, oh, the stories she can tell!) but I imagine its original purpose was to protect the public from unscrupulous manufacturing/drug/agricultural entities. Now it takes the liberty of making decisions about vaping when smoking and alcohol have been left virtually undisturbed, and canna*is is becoming legal in more and more places.

The sermon I have in my mind is the same here as it is for a multitude of other scenarios. If you want the RIGHT to do a thing, you have to take the RESPONSIBILITY of it as well. That's what a lot of people refuse to understand. They refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. And it's a helluva power trip for certain governmental entities and other groups of do-gooders who get their jollies "protecting" people from their own ignorance.

You wanna do DIY, well, knock yourself out. But if you do something stupid and hurt yourself, it's no one else's fault.

It's different if the manufacturer of VG let a batch get through that has Drano in it or something like that. That is negligence, possibly criminal negligence, depending on circumstances. But if you decide you're gonna vape paint thinner or you're gonna put a little illegal something-or-other in your juice, that's on you, and you've no right to complain.

And I don't mean you, as in YOU. I mean you, as in anybody who could decide to do or not do such a thing.


There is no power in "Yes". The Government giveth and the Government taketh away. They see a good thing as a money bag, so they take it away and make you beg to get it back in the form of taxes.

The FDA is unconstitutional just like the IRS and DEA. Pharma, big agriculture and other corporate interest have their hands in the FDA. The FDA is why homeopathy is considered not medicine and why compound pharmacists are no longer a thing. They need to limit our options to the people who pay them. Its a scam.
 

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