Many Crazy Questions...

[aldenf]

Hi Folks!

First let me thank you all for such wonderful posts. The knowledge, experience, talent, artistry and generosity here are astounding! I'm a five-month vaper who's been off analogs for four months. It seems the commercial e-liquids I really like are around $20/30ml. I've been researching DIY E-Liquids for about six weeks now and have a couple (a lot) of questions I'd like to answer before I pull the trigger on my wish list(s). This post will probably be WAY too long. Thanks for your patience and help in advance.

First a little of my background: I grew up in the food & beverage industry, put myself through college and grad-school as a NYT 3-Star bar chef and still consult with a handful of restaraunts on their seasonal cocktails. I'm not afraid of experimentation or failure and keep meticulous notes. I know how difficult it is to remember ratios after the 6th or 7th version of a coktail, especially if I consume my "mistakes". I write everything down...

I have a wet bar in my basement that I will use as my e-liquid lab. At least the new bottles will take up far less room than the current ones occupying shelves behind the bar. I have a list of tools to replace my jiggers, spoons, shakers and strainers. I've copied many tasty-looking recipes from these threads. I'm trying to determine how best to stock my new "bar" to maximize e-liquid variety. I'm actually excited to get started but I have some hesitance. Hence, this post.

I think I'm senstive to the taste of PG. Juices with more than 35% PG just haven't tasted right to me; often bitter, medicinal or simply off. So, one of the first things I'll be playing with is PG/VG ratios. I could use a few suggestions for reasonably tasty single/two-flavor "recipes" to use for this experimentation; preferably shake & vape. Commercial juices I have enjoyed: Cuttwood's Sugar Bear; Niquid's Banana Nut Bread; RY4 (I can't remember whose); TerraCloud's Cream Fields (strawberries & cream), Cider Donut (apple cider & cinnamon/suger cake-donut), Strawffles (strawberry & waffle), LemonDaze (raspberry lemonade), Cinna Bears, Dulce di Peche, Pumpkin Spice Custard & P Custardo.

ATM, I'm leaning toward keeping my PG content to 5%. Is it best to use a VG base nic and add PG to final desired ratio based on flavoring percentage? Are there flavorings/recipes that work better/worse in a high VG environment? Should I generally increase overall flavoring % the higher the VG content?

How do people deal with different nic levels of the same flavor? I vape 12mg in clearos, 8mg in RTAs and drip 6mg. Is there any way to avoid having three seperate bottles of the same flavor sitting on the shelf? Does nic level effect final flavor? Do people adjust overall flavoring % based on nic level or how the liquid is vaped (clearo, RTA, RDA, etc.)?

How are components best stored; ie. cold/iced/room temp? What is the shelf-life of nic base outside of cold storage? How about shelf-life of PG/VG/Flavorings? Do organic/natural flavorings store better cold as opposed to artificial flavorings?

Sweeteners:
Ethyl maltol mutes flavors?
Sucralose wreaks recipes as they age?
Meringue & marshmallow are the sweeteners to use?
Do certain sweeteners work better with specific flavorings? Is this just trial & error? What are the other alternatives?

General rules of thumb?...
Fruits, candies & drinks need little to no steeping?
Bakery & tobaccos need much steeping?
Higher VG content requires more steeping?

In HIC's thread about pre-mixing flavorings it was suggested that flavor molecules start morphing as soon as flavorings are combined. So, what flavoring combinations don't age well together? Do the flavor molecules morph/age faster in isolation as opposed to a PG/VG/Nic environment?

What flavorings respond poorly to heat/crockpot steeping? Do different flavorings respond better/worse to different water temps?

I read that "flavor enhancers" like vinegars, citrus juice/oil, FA MTS Vape Wizard, TFA Smooth, etc., work by altering the e-liquid's pH. The acids obviously lower pH. VW & Smooth raise pH? Is the pH thing bupkus? Do flavorings/recipes react similarly to acidity as foods and beverages? Any rules of thumb regarding "flavor enhancers" and certain flavorings/combinations? I read that saline is used as a flavor enhancer like salt in cooking/cocktails?

Am I over-thinking this process way too much? I discovered that I became a much better mixologist after learning solid food/flavor chemistry. Am I just friggin' nuts?

If you've gotten this far in my post, THANK YOU!!!

~Alden

 

[Time]

LOL. I'm a noob so I won't try to answer any of your questions. They're too advanced for me.

But, I will welcome you to the forum!

 

[aldenf]

LOL. I'm a noob so I won't try to answer any of your questions. They're too advanced for me.

But, I will welcome you to the forum!

Thanks! I really like it here. People don't seem to take themselves too seriously as on other forums...

 

[UncleRJ]

All I have for you is a firm WELCOME to the UNDERGROUND!

I have not yet gotten into DIY so I will wait for the DIY folks to jump in here and answer your questions.

 

[Heabob]

Personally I get the "diet" aftertaste when using TFA Sweetener, so I don't like it.
TFA Marshmallow, FA Meringue, TFA Brown Sugar Extra, TFA Molasses, etc. work for me instead.
And also adding Vanillas and Creams to fruits adds a nice touch.

If you prefer higher VG then you should buy your nic base in VG.
FW Cinnamon Roll at 7% is pretty good as a stand alone but has some bad stuff in it I think.

I'm only using Clearos now because I didn't like the hassle of making different strength mixes.

I like to leave my fresh mixed stuff to sit a few days, but that's just me.
Tobaccos generally take longer but there are a few exceptions.

 

[Budds]

Cant answer all the questions, but will offer my humble experience.....

Start small and work up.
Get that PG/VG - "Whats my Nic taste like?" stuff under your belt first.
Nothing wrong with vaping unflavored base, in fact some prefer it ! Get to know what your base taste like, and make adjustments to suit.
Then move up to stand alone flavors.... again nothing wrong with vaping a simple mix like strawberry w/nothing else added, this will give you a "Feel" for your ingredients and percentage used to achieve your desired taste.
Everything I order gets a minimum 5ml test of "Stan-Alone" to see what it is..... some will surprise you and not taste anything like what you imagine it tastes like..... even smelling the concentrate can fool you as it sometimes is NOT what it tastes like mixed.

With your background it probably wont be long before you into a few complex originals...... But I bet you also discover some simple mixes that please you as well.
That is our lot.....
Try this, try that..... Mix another 100mls of a favorite.... rinse and repeat....
Damn, another Nic Sale..... guess I should have another keg to go with the other 4..... oh look, FlavorArts on sale, need to try those flavors I read about lastnight....
And here we are.... Coffee and Donuts are on the table by the door...... "I'm Budds, and I have a problem..... "

Lol....
Good Luck and Welcome !

 

[wllmc]

Ill try to hit as many of these as I can , let me grab some coffee lol.

 

[wllmc]

sounds like you have a pretty good handle on what you need and how to go about it. the above advise is all good. from there alot of your questions can only be answered by experimentation.

sweeteners and additives are preference. I do not care for them but a lot of the master mixers use them a lot. I also try to use flavors to sweeten up when I can. there are a lot of good flavors you can add that give sweetness depending on the vape you are making. for instance a vanilla almond vape. if I wanted to sweeten it up I would add a dash of FA marzipan. maybe I wanted to sweeten up a strawberry I might use caps sweet cream for a sweet creamy strawberry. I try to add very little extras if any in my vapes. I dont do distilled water or vinager or lemon juice, no sweeteners or vanillin or EM. thats just me tho you might love them additions. one thing you could do for quick mixing of different strengths is have base liquids pre made that are close to your target nicotine and mix as needed.

steeping is another thing. for the most part you have it right. but I wouldnt say anything really needs steeped if you like it right away. I shake and vape tobaccos all the time.

I keep my nic in the freezer and the nic I have out for use in the fridge. everything else I store pretty much at room temp or a little under.

I dont know about pre mixing flavors. I like to mix on the fly.

bull city has amazing samle pricing on flavors . vaperstek has the best nicotine

I think thats most of it. welcome to the community. hope you enjoy it !

 

[HeadInClouds]

Steeping...I generally do not. I like to mix just a few days' supply at a time, because my preferences change day by day. No matter what, I always try new recipes I've mixed right away. You can't know if "steeping" improves it, if you didn't try it fresh. I nearly always prefer fresh-mixed, but some recipes are exceptions, and I (try to) let those sit a while before vaping the whole batch. Simple fruit mixes don't tend to change flavor much as they sit. Complex, creamy, and tobacco mixes do tend to change more (for better or worse is a matter of personal preference per recipe).

VG...I use all-VG, which is kind of thick. I mix unflavored base a little stronger than I care to vape - so when I add flavorings, the nic level will be where I want it. While I'm at it, I add enough water to thin it for my equipment. I mix for two people who use different bases, so it's nice to have a bottle of each premade, ready to use. I often keep a third bottle prepared with double-strong nic. I can vape that when I have a craving, sometimes with no flavoring at all.

No, VG doesn't need extra flavoring or longer steep time, but keep in mind thicker liquids just don't blend as readily. If you set the bottle in warm water a few minutes, the gentle heat thins it. That's what I do before I shake it up by hand. Also keep in mind VG is sweeter than PG, and that does change the flavor of things. If you're mixing tobacco or other non-sweet flavors, THEN you might want heavier flavoring to cover up some of that sweetness....or just raise the PG instead.

The shake-and-vape single- or two-flavor recipes you asked about should be your new flavorings! Try each one like that to get a feel for the flavor and to find your preferred standalone percentage. You could start with simple flavors, like vanilla, or ready-made recipes, like TFA Banana Bread or FA Tiramisu.

Premixing flavorings...My opinion on this is formed from manymany bottles of experience. No flavor changes or mysterious chemical reactions are involved when you premix flavorings. Letting mixed flavors sit is not the same as "steeping". That steep clock doesn't start until you add your PG/VG/nic. You can test that out to reassure yourself. It seems like premixing your favorite recipes would really be to your advantage, since you'll mix at different nic %s and perhaps different total flavor for all the different equipment you use. It will save you (or anyone in your situation) lots of time, effort, and shelf space.

Sweeteners...I used to vape them a lot, but I don't now. I have a huge sweet tooth. Switching to all-VG made a big difference. Getting super-pure nic (I like Vapers Tek best) made another big difference. When it's still not sweet enough, I look for compatible sweet flavors. It might be FA Meringue for a fruit mix, maybe Honey or Maple Syrup or Vienna Cream or TFA Brown Sugar Extra for a bakery mix... you get the idea. The more flavors I've collected and the better I've gotten to know them, the less I've had to rely on additives like sweetener, Magic Mask, Smooth, and so on.

Storage...I keep unmixed nic in the deep freeze. My VG lives there, too - just because it's convenient, not because it needs to be cold. My flavorings, a few-week supply of premixed nic+VG stay in a cool room and are kept out of light.

I'm curious what flavors you'll try first...

 

[toughguitar]

I can't give you any better advice than what has already been posted. The best advice(already given) is to start small with one or two flavors. When I first started I wanted to mix all these crazy recipes, and with no reference as to how the flavors react to each other, it was a disaster with a lot of bad juice. It was frustrating trying to fix them and became so aggravating I gave up. After finding the community here, and using the suggestions here I am making some great juice. The only problem now is that so many great recipes come up here, I have more good juice to vape than I'll ever need.

 

[misswish]

aldenf, you are in the right place to get the best possible guidance, all of the above is gold. Now, have some fun!

 

[Ld3441]

As you can see, there is no right answer here with mixing. One size does not fit all.
The best advice I can offer is start small. Mix small batches until you figure out what works best for YOU.
Main thing is to have fun with it. Everything will not turn out good but when it does.... priceless.
Welcome and I look forward to what you come up with... keep us posted.

Edit: You mention vaping different mg levels. How do you handle that now? It will be the same with DIY, you just have to mark the bottles so you know what mg it is if you want to change up.