Life Long Smoker Looking To Make The Switch

[rain6460]

Hello Everyone,
My wife has been a Clove cigarette smoker for 40+ years, and after a recent hospital visit for a lung infection she's been diagnosed with copd. I've been trying for years to get her to convert to vaping, but she's never been happy with anything I had her try in the past. Now that her doctor told her she either quits or is looking at lugging around an oxygen tank, I think she's a little more motivated.

So I'm basically looking for any suggestions on a device that might be appropriate to satisfy her nicotine habit. She's definitely not interested in a sub-ohm cloud bursting rig like the one I use, and the salts may be too intense. She hit my son's Xros 3 mini with 40 mg and it just made her cough Lol. Not sure how low you can go with the nicotine levels on these small salt devices? Are there any non-salt devices available, disposable or not, that might be worth a try? And I don't think any of the juice makers out there sell a Clove flavored vape juice that I know of. So she may have to bite the bullet on Clove. Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions any of you might have. Thanks!

 

[SirKadly]

What pod is your son using? It might just be that your wife would do better with a different pod than the one your son uses. Possibly try to find the 1.2ohm pod for it?

I don't know enough about most of the newer gear to offer any other advice I'm afraid.

 

[SirKadly]

I found some clove ejuice that is supposed to taste like Dijarum Black, I know nothing about the supplier other than that they appear to be in North Texas.
Google Mongo's Flavors black clove

 

[Bliss Doubt]

Hello Everyone,
My wife has been a Clove cigarette smoker for 40+ years, and after a recent hospital visit for a lung infection she's been diagnosed with copd. I've been trying for years to get her to convert to vaping, but she's never been happy with anything I had her try in the past. Now that her doctor told her she either quits or is looking at lugging around an oxygen tank, I think she's a little more motivated.

So I'm basically looking for any suggestions on a device that might be appropriate to satisfy her nicotine habit. She's definitely not interested in a sub-ohm cloud bursting rig like the one I use, and the salts may be too intense. She hit my son's Xros 3 mini with 40 mg and it just made her cough Lol. Not sure how low you can go with the nicotine levels on these small salt devices? Are there any non-salt devices available, disposable or not, that might be worth a try? And I don't think any of the juice makers out there sell a Clove flavored vape juice that I know of. So she may have to bite the bullet on Clove. Anyway, I'd appreciate any suggestions any of you might have. Thanks!

Hello rain6460,

I'm so sorry to hear of your wife's troubles. Clove cigarettes are very harsh. They used to be a nightclub treat for me only, because other people didn't mind the smell of them.

I don't recommend disposables because the nic levels in them are too high, usually 50 or 60 mg. The prevailing wisdom has been that a new vaper should start at 18 mg/ml which is strong enough to keep down the nic cravings, though quitting may still be difficult for Mrs. However, 50 or 60 mg/ml is dangerous in terms of cardiac risk. Otherwise nicotine, divorced from burning plant matter and all the dangerous additives they put in cigarettes, is just a mild stimulant like caffeine.

I recommend starting where many a successful cig quit vaper began, with the Ego T battery and a glassomizer. I use the eLeaf, but it's more of an investment when you're not sure of success. In any case you can just do a search for the Ego-T starter kit, or eLeaf starter kit, and find your equipment.

After starting in 2012 with the Ego-T with a plastic clearomizer, I graduated to the glassomizer I have used ever since, which is the Aspire BVC. I use 1.6 ohms resistance coils.

Clove is the only flavor I vape, though I use unflavored when I have to be around people. I get my clove at PerfectVape.com but it isn't difficult to find it, and I've never had a clove eliquid that wasn't good, and true to the flavor it's supposed to have. Anyway the PerfectVape house liquid I buy is not a salt nic formula.

Seasoned vapers know that figuring out what you want to use is a journey of discovery, which is why I'm suggesting that she start cheap.

eGo-t Starter Kit ECig

The eGo-t is the tried and True electronic cigarette innovation on which vaping was born and the eGo vape pen continues to be a consumer's top Ecig choice.

www.centralvapors.com

Get two of them, one for use while the other one recharges. It comes with the charging cable, but will need also a wall plug, to which you connect the included USB cable in the starter kit:

eGo Wall Charger Adapter

Perfect for charging your eGo ecig from a wall outlet. Unlike some USB chargers, this is perfectly safe to use with your eGo-t.

www.centralvapors.com

An Evod or Vision Spinner battery will be similar in form and function, and is also a good way to start.

Some other resources, and sellers I buy from:

PerfectVape

Disposable Vapes, E-Liquids, Vape Kits, Pod Kits, Tanks, Coils, Pods, Concentrate Vaporizers

perfectvape.com

Element Vape - Online Vape Shop - Vape Kits & E-Liquids

Discover incredible deals at Element Vape, a progressive online retail shop serving the vaping community with pod systems, disposables, and premium eJuice.

www.elementvape.com

ECBlend Flavors | E-Liquid | Vape Juice & Vape Supplies

ECBlend Flavors is your one-stop-shop for incredible deals on E-Liquid and Hardware. ECBlend is your source for hard-to-find coils, replacement parts, and an array of hardware from top-of-the-line devices to vintage gear.

www.ecblendflavors.com

Vape Store Online | e-cigarettes, e-liquids, vape kits & pens | myvaporstore.com

www.myvaporstore.com

Gothic Vapor - Decadent E Liquid, E Cigs and Vape Supplies

Over 300 Decadent E-Liquid and the newest Vaping Supplies. World Wide Shipping. Custom blended ejuice for electronic cigarettes, and vape shop. World wide shipping available. eJuices blended on site in our lab.

www.gothicvapor.com

freedomsmokeusa.com - freedomsmokeusa Resources and Information.

freedomsmokeusa.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, freedomsmokeusa.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

freedomsmokeusa.com

After successfully quitting cigarettes, after a few weeks or months, Mrs. may want to reduce her nic from 18 mg. to 12.

Each of us can only report what has given us success. Hopefully others will stroll up with suggestions.

 

[rain6460]

What pod is your son using? It might just be that your wife would do better with a different pod than the one your son uses. Possibly try to find the 1.2ohm pod for it?

I don't know enough about most of the newer gear to offer any other advice I'm afraid.

He says he uses a 1.0. Maybe an increased resistance would be better with a lower nic level. Thanks.

 

[rain6460]

I found some clove ejuice that is supposed to taste like Dijarum Black, I know nothing about the supplier other than that they appear to be in North Texas.
Google Mongo's Flavors black clove

That's exactly what she's been smoking for a long time. I'll definitely have to look into that. Just need to find the right device for her to use. Thanks!

 

[rain6460]

Hello rain6460,

I'm so sorry to hear of your wife's troubles. Clove cigarettes are very harsh. They used to be a nightclub treat for me only, because other people didn't mind the smell of them.

I don't recommend disposables because the nic levels in them are too high, usually 50 or 60 mg. The prevailing wisdom has been that a new vaper should start at 18 mg/ml which is strong enough to keep down the nic cravings, though quitting may still be difficult for Mrs. However, 50 or 60 mg/ml is dangerous in terms of cardiac risk. Otherwise nicotine, divorced from burning plant matter and all the dangerous additives they put in cigarettes, is just a mild stimulant like caffeine.

I recommend starting where many a successful cig quit vaper began, with the Ego T battery and a glassomizer. I use the eLeaf, but it's more of an investment when you're not sure of success. In any case you can just do a search for the Ego-T starter kit, or eLeaf starter kit, and find your equipment.

After starting in 2012 with the Ego-T with a plastic clearomizer, I graduated to the glassomizer I have used ever since, which is the Aspire BVC. I use 1.6 ohms resistance coils.

Clove is the only flavor I vape, though I use unflavored when I have to be around people. I get my clove at PerfectVape.com but it isn't difficult to find it, and I've never had a clove eliquid that wasn't good, and true to the flavor it's supposed to have. Anyway the PerfectVape house liquid I buy is not a salt nic formula.

Seasoned vapers know that figuring out what you want to use is a journey of discovery, which is why I'm suggesting that she start cheap.

eGo-t Starter Kit ECig

The eGo-t is the tried and True electronic cigarette innovation on which vaping was born and the eGo vape pen continues to be a consumer's top Ecig choice.

www.centralvapors.com

Get two of them, one for use while the other one recharges. It comes with the charging cable, but will need also a wall plug, to which you connect the included USB cable in the starter kit:

eGo Wall Charger Adapter

Perfect for charging your eGo ecig from a wall outlet. Unlike some USB chargers, this is perfectly safe to use with your eGo-t.

www.centralvapors.com

An Evod or Vision Spinner battery will be similar in form and function, and is also a good way to start.

Some other resources, and sellers I buy from:

PerfectVape

Disposable Vapes, E-Liquids, Vape Kits, Pod Kits, Tanks, Coils, Pods, Concentrate Vaporizers

perfectvape.com

Element Vape - Online Vape Shop - Vape Kits & E-Liquids

Discover incredible deals at Element Vape, a progressive online retail shop serving the vaping community with pod systems, disposables, and premium eJuice.

www.elementvape.com

ECBlend Flavors | E-Liquid | Vape Juice & Vape Supplies

ECBlend Flavors is your one-stop-shop for incredible deals on E-Liquid and Hardware. ECBlend is your source for hard-to-find coils, replacement parts, and an array of hardware from top-of-the-line devices to vintage gear.

www.ecblendflavors.com

Vape Store Online | e-cigarettes, e-liquids, vape kits & pens | myvaporstore.com

www.myvaporstore.com

Gothic Vapor - Decadent E Liquid, E Cigs and Vape Supplies

Over 300 Decadent E-Liquid and the newest Vaping Supplies. World Wide Shipping. Custom blended ejuice for electronic cigarettes, and vape shop. World wide shipping available. eJuices blended on site in our lab.

www.gothicvapor.com

freedomsmokeusa.com - freedomsmokeusa Resources and Information.

freedomsmokeusa.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, freedomsmokeusa.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!

freedomsmokeusa.com

After successfully quitting cigarettes, after a few weeks or months, Mrs. may want to reduce her nic from 18 mg. to 12.

Each of us can only report what has given us success. Hopefully others will stroll up with suggestions.

Thank you for that. And I do appreciate you taking the time to provide all of that information! The last time I actually looked for Clove flavored ejuice was several years ago and it didn't seem very plentiful. I guess there's more available these days..good to know! And I'm definitely going to explore your other device suggestions. You've given me a good starting point. Thank you again!

 

[rain6460]

I found some clove ejuice that is supposed to taste like Dijarum Black, I know nothing about the supplier other than that they appear to be in North Texas.
Google Mongo's Flavors black clove

 

[rain6460]

BTW...love your quote. So true. I wonder if Seneca ever gave any lessons on how to actually live it!

 

[SirKadly]

BTW...love your quote. So true. I wonder if Seneca ever gave any lessons on how to actually live it!

I'm sure it was endlessly discussed and debated with other philosophers, but I'm not having any luck putting it into practice. Probably because I don't totally buy into the whole Stoic philosophy so I have never actually studied up on the how. But I think that the two biggest issues that keep people from truly living (myself included) are that they are either dwelling on the past or worried about the future.

Back to the topic, Bliss's suggestion of the ego-t style devices is actually a pretty good idea, that is what an awful lot of people used to quit smoking. Here I was trying to find a way to make that Xros work for your wife but there is something to be said for going old school.

 

[Vape Fan]

I agree with 18mg freebase starting out for most ppl. I smoked over 1.5 pks a day for 41 yrs and 18 was a bit high for me, so at the time I bought and mixed 18 and 12 for 15mg for mtl.

Everyone coughs at first if not vaping correctly during the transition, and a little after till cilia repairs. So expect that, but don't give up. It can be done w/no or very little coughing.

At first, have her pick up the vape 1st, everytime she wants to smoke. Take small, even tiny, puffs, ie as much as possible WITHOUT COUGHING. If there's a cough when puff, take a smaller hit. She may not see any vapor at all when exhaling, but it's happening.
When it gets to where she then just has to have a cig, because that little bit of vape won't satisfy, then have the cig. Next time she wants a cig, do the same thing, vape first.

Stay with that regimen till your lungs get more used to it being vapor instead of smoke, and be able to take in more and more vapor, which will reduce the cigs and to no cigs.

Stay at it till it's just all vaping and no cigarettes.

For me it was 1.5 pks the first week, 10 cigs the next, then 0.

Highly highly suggest a tank- that has airflow control, with replaceable coils, on a mod - one that has adjustable wattage. Being able to adjust the airflow and the power is monumental in the beginning - imo.
So, being able to choose the resistance, then choose the airflow(not like the little af adjustment you might find on a slim pod type device), the being able to adjust the power.....means with that 1 coil you can make it have a longer slower draw in the beginning, and lower/lessen the af, and up the wattage - both a little at a time - for more vapor as you get used to it. Otherwise you just have to barely puff, of puff harder, with no other alternatives. Being a vaper yourself, you know what I mean.

Don't shop by price. At the same time it doesn't have to be expensive either - in relative terms. You want what's going to work so she doesn't have to fail and start over. IK that's not easy to determine.

I suggest a tank, that has multiple coil selections even if she starts out with something like a 1.6Ω so that there's options with the same setup. Once used to vaping she might want something other that what she started with. I think PnP type devices have those options. And probably with built in batteries.

Everything You Need to Know About Cilia in the Lungs - SmartVest Airway Clearance System

Every time we take a breath, air enters our lungs and oxygen from the air moves from our lungs to our blood. Though each part of your respiratory system is essential, there is one area that may be overlooked. In this article, we'll focus on the importance of cilia, tiny hair-like structures that...

smartvest.com

 

[rain6460]

I agree with 18mg freebase starting out for most ppl. I smoked over 1.5 pks a day for 41 yrs and 18 was a bit high for me, so at the time I bought and mixed 18 and 12 for 15mg for mtl.

Everyone coughs at first if not vaping correctly during the transition, and a little after till cilia repairs. So expect that, but don't give up. It can be done w/no or very little coughing.

At first, have her pick up the vape 1st, everytime she wants to smoke. Take small, even tiny, puffs, ie as much as possible WITHOUT COUGHING. If there's a cough when puff, take a smaller hit. She may not see any vapor at all when exhaling, but it's happening.
When it gets to where she then just has to have a cig, because that little bit of vape won't satisfy, then have the cig. Next time she wants a cig, do the same thing, vape first.

Stay with that regimen till your lungs get more used to it being vapor instead of smoke, and be able to take in more and more vapor, which will reduce the cigs and to no cigs.

Stay at it till it's just all vaping and no cigarettes.

For me it was 1.5 pks the first week, 10 the next, then 0.

Highly highly suggest a tank- that has airflow control, with replaceable coils, on a mod - one that has adjustable wattage. Being able to adjust the airflow and the power is monumental in the beginning - imo.
So, being able to choose the resistance, then choose the airflow(not like the little af adjustment you might find on a slim pod type device), the being able to adjust the power.....means with that 1 coil you can make it have a longer slower draw in the beginning, and lower/lessen the af, and up the wattage - both a little at a time - for more vapor as you get used to it. Otherwise you just have to barely puff, of puff harder, with no other alternatives. Being a vaper yourself, you know what I mean.

Don't shop by price. At the same time it doesn't have to be expensive either - in relative terms. You want what's going to work so she doesn't have to fail and start over. IK that's not easy to determine.

I suggest a tank, that has multiple coil selections even if she starts out with something like a 1.6Ω so that there's options with the same setup. Once used to vaping she might want something other that what she started with. I think PnP type devices have those options. And probably with built in batteries.

Everything You Need to Know About Cilia in the Lungs - SmartVest Airway Clearance System

Every time we take a breath, air enters our lungs and oxygen from the air moves from our lungs to our blood. Though each part of your respiratory system is essential, there is one area that may be overlooked. In this article, we'll focus on the importance of cilia, tiny hair-like structures that...

smartvest.com

Thank you for those suggestions, I do think it makes more sense to try devices that offer flexibility on wattage and coil resistances. Think that's where we'll start.

 

[rain6460]

I'm sure it was endlessly discussed and debated with other philosophers, but I'm not having any luck putting it into practice. Probably because I don't totally buy into the whole Stoic philosophy so I have never actually studied up on the how. But I think that the two biggest issues that keep people from truly living (myself included) are that they are either dwelling on the past or worried about the future.

Back to the topic, Bliss's suggestion of the ego-t style devices is actually a pretty good idea, that is what an awful lot of people used to quit smoking. Here I was trying to find a way to make that Xros work for your wife but there is something to be said for going old school.

I certainly agree with not putting much stock in stoicism. Probably because I've been labeled a person who wears it all on my shirt sleeve. When I'm happy, sad, or mad everyone knows it! Lol. Couldn't agree with you more though, the dwelling on the past and fear of the future are indeed the two biggest impediments to living fully in the moment...which ironically, is all we ever have. Still, often easier said than done!

 

[rain6460]

Sorry for the duplicate response

 

[Vape Fan]

The original Nautilus with BVC coils may be responsible for more ppl quitting cigs than any other tank.
It has these newer versions with newer looks, and they've added to the BVC lineup. There's good reason it's been around since, 2014 I think it was.

Nautilus 3S

Nautilus 3S tank uses Nautilus series coils emulates closely to Nautilus GT taste, which will provide you premium MTL experience and extreme flavor enjoyment.

www.aspirecig.com

Kit w/built in battery and nautilus 3.

Zelos 3 Kit 3200mAh

Notice: For TPD countries, we will ship the TPD version by default

www.aspirecig.com

 

[MyMagicMist]

You can get flavorless nicotine containing ejuice, then add clove flavoring. Others may offer up suggestions on where to get the unflavored ejuice. I have to hunt when I need it as well.

My only suggestion follows. Heartland vapes usually carry it in 18mg. Been vaping 18mg strength all along, smoked 35+ years, pack to pack and half a day.

Gentle reminder, have the wife drink plenty of water as she gets into vaping. It can help with the coughing some. Also recall, listen to your own body and actual face to face trusted medical professionals. Some dummy on the InterWebs might tell you fine on a carburetor rebuild, doesn't mean they know jack about human lives.

Be aware too, even all the high fa looting doctors don't know everything & are just as human as you and me.

Run 'er slow, steady as she goes.

 

[Bliss Doubt]

The original Nautilus with BVC coils may be responsible for more ppl quitting cigs than any other tank.
It has these newer versions with newer looks, and they've added to the BVC lineup. There's good reason it's been around since, 2014 I think it was.

Nautilus 3S

Nautilus 3S tank uses Nautilus series coils emulates closely to Nautilus GT taste, which will provide you premium MTL experience and extreme flavor enjoyment.

www.aspirecig.com

Kit w/built in battery and nautilus 3.

Zelos 3 Kit 3200mAh

Notice: For TPD countries, we will ship the TPD version by default

www.aspirecig.com

There's some good advice in your posts in this thread.

If I'd not hoarded a shoebox full of the Aspire BVC glassomizer and possibly a lifetime of 1.6 ohms coils for them, I might want to try that Nautilus BVC just to check it out. I didn't like the original Nautilus. It leaked, and the air flow would go wonky without me doing anything to it. Anyway, I may try again now that they've gone to the BVC coil.

For the OP, the Nautilus tank does work fine on the Ego-T 3.7v, which I linked as a cheap starter kit, using either a thread cover or an adapter, either of which is a cheap little thing (I forget which thing, it's been a while).

I clicked your Nautilus link, and found it comes in 0.3 ohms, which I think would allow them to work with that Batpack I tried, but didn't mention to the OP because it has been discontinued, though you can still find it easily. Since it uses alkaline batteries, the power is 1.85 volts, but the coils they made for it (also discontinued, disappearing from the market) are 0.5 ohm, giving a vape experience comparable to the Ego-T 3.7v. Therefore if the Nautilus BVC with a 0.3 ohms coil could work. The Batpack, still available here and there, is a one time inexpensive mod purchase, and no backup unit would be needed.

Enough of me confusing the OP, but I'm willing to answer questions.

Even though I started the journey at 18 mg, about three weeks after my last cigarette I started to feel wired all the time, waking up in the middle of the night, so I dropped to 12 mg, the level I have kept to this day, 11 years later. I still tell newbies to start at 18mg for the extra nic support while quitting cigs.

 

[Bliss Doubt]

Definitely second what @Vape Fan said about learning to inhale the vape. It took me a good three days to figure out how to take in the vapor, which is different than the way you inhale cigarette smoke.

 

[Bliss Doubt]

I decided to provide the link to the exact PerfectVape house brand liquid I use in clove. 120 ml. is only 16.73. It's always good. I've been using it for years.

https://perfectvape.com/perfectvape-e-liquid-10ml-120ml/

Another recommendation for liquids is 80 pg 20 vg. That taste may change after a newbie gains experience, but it gives the easiest draw, normal exhalation that mimics cigarette smoke, which I think helps in the cig quit process.

PV also has an eLeaf mini starter kit in stock, which even though mini is 1050 mah:

https://perfectvape.com/eleaf-mini-istick-kit-1050mah-10w-tc-box-mod/

And that kit would work beautifully with the Nautilus BVC or the Nautilus Mini BVC.

Otherwise, if the OP and Mrs. go for the Ego-T starter kit, then ElementVape has a 5-pack of the Aspire BVC glassomizers at 32.99. They come loaded with 1.8 ohm coils, which is fine, great with the Egos.

Aspire ET-S BVC Clearomizer (5-Pack)

Check out the Aspire ET-S BVC Clearomizer (5-Pack), featuring five 3mL EGO Thread clearomizers with a top-fill system and compatibility with Aspire BVC coils. Quick Links:Aspire BVC Coils

www.elementvape.com

I think I'll bow out of this thread now. The trouble with long time vapers like me, who have hoarded what we like ever since the first ban threats, are not up on the more recent innovations.

Above all I am recommending open systems over disposables.

 

[Vape Fan]

I didn't like the original Nautilus. It leaked, and the air flow would go wonky without me doing anything to it

I had no problems w/my og. it's what I used for the first 9 months. Then wanted more of a hit so got Melo, maybe Melo II, and a *gasp* Smok AL85 **washes mouth out with soap**.

That Nautilus 3S look like good features, same as 3 I suppose, but I like the glass cover.

For Zelos mod I was trying to come up with something small yet enough runtime to probably last a day, w/o buying batteries and a charger.

Of course a 1x 21700 mod would be better for that imo, with that no way she'd run out during even a long day. I know with me, I started carrying an extra charged 3000mah18650 w/Nautilus to get through the day. But even a 1x 18650 will have more runtime than that 2500mah mod. Anyways, there's tons of choices for external battery mods, costs more initially but not in the long run. Also once used to vapor, and if at about 12W with a 1.6 or 1.8 a person could be hunting a usb before days end. And I don't know if it has passthrough, the ability to vape while charging, probably, but if wrong 1 time and the mod is fried. Then there's the personal elements of size/style/aesthetic elements.
Maybe we'll get feedback on that kind of stuff before a decision is made.
Sometimes we have to take a leap of faith and I think that's true for a new vapor. Or think of it this way haha, "I spent all this money, I HAVE to make it work" lol.

 

[Vape Fan]

Check this out. A person could buy a few of these and just have them on hand. Maybe a little cumbersome, but if in car, home not bad.
$4.20 in the cart. I think it's 1100mah. There's YT's on it, 2016 but still, its only 4 bucks.

KimSun SM40 Mod | 40w

Kim Sun SM40 e-cigarette is the latest temperature control vape mini box mod with a 40 wattage rechargeable battery box vapor mod designed by KIMREE. It is made of aviation aluminum-alloy. It has a synchronous data LED display screen for you to see what temperature and wattage you are at when...

www.ejuicesteals.com

O

 

[Vape Fan]

the vapor, which is different than the way you inhale cigarette smoke.

Exactly. It's different than smoke and our body/lungs go, "What's this? Get out of here!" Till we get used to it, like when we first smoked but doesn't take as long. Some ppl take to vaping like a fish in water.

 

[MyMagicMist]

a 1x 18650 will have more runtime than that 2500mah mod.

Ah, yup.

$4.20 in the cart. I think it's 1100mah. There's YT's on it, 2016 but still, its only 4 bucks.

Not a bad little mod for the bucks, one might, would grab maybe 4 or 6 at that price for emergency stashing. Like you said, toss one or two in a vehicle, one or two around the house. 1100mah doesn't do me all day, but if I had another stashed I could do it. Backups even for backups as we say.

The trouble with long time vapers like me, who have hoarded what we like ever since the first ban threats, are not up on the more recent innovations.

Or, some like me who haven't really hoarded. We find what we like and pick up a few extras here and there along the way. I don't get much into all the new dangled stuff. Heck & beans, I don't even use temp control, never have.

Above all I am recommending open systems over disposables.

Thank you, knew there was a reason I had hope

See you got a kidney, guess you've smelled the coffee as well. Yes, we need to keep folks away from closed systems. Sure, I like the convenience of 'standard' but not if it means I'm locked into a company that suddenly tanks out. Worse yet, won't let me use stuff made by other companies, what with it 'all' being 'standard'.

Reminds me of the 100% pure apple juice argument/joke. *grin*

 

[VapeOn1960]

Very interesting thread (I have many suggestions but just starting with the e-liquid/juice) If you really like clove that's so easy to do but I assume you want a good tobacco flavor also (that's a bit trickier... so many)
On a side note: I remember these
https://www.verywellmind.com/are-bidi-cigarettes-safe-to-smoke-2825285