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Is 30 watts enough for dual coil?

conanthewarrior

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Hi people.

I have a sigelei 30 watt mini on the advice of some people here, that I do really like. It really shines if I use only one coil in my RDA, it is like a fog machine.

Thing is, if I go to 2 coils, even on max watts I get either the same clouds or less.

I understand now each coil takes its own watts, so the max they can have is 15. I use my RDA between 20-25.

I am thinking of getting a 50 watt box so I can at least use my el cabron to its full potential, but I don't want to spend the money out then realise that is not enough.

Is there anyway to get dual coil working well on my sigelei, or do I need to upgrade already? Its becoming quite expensive this hobby lol.
 

UncleRJ

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If you are that interested in cloud chasing that you want to build with dual coils and not be able to see the other end of the room you are in, forget the 50 watt mods and get the Sigelei 150 watt.

With that you will have abundant power for whatever you want to do in the future.
 

Maverik_X

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Hi people.

I have a sigelei 30 watt mini on the advice of some people here, that I do really like. It really shines if I use only one coil in my RDA, it is like a fog machine.

Thing is, if I go to 2 coils, even on max watts I get either the same clouds or less.

I understand now each coil takes its own watts, so the max they can have is 15. I use my RDA between 20-25.

I am thinking of getting a 50 watt box so I can at least use my el cabron to its full potential, but I don't want to spend the money out then realise that is not enough.

Is there anyway to get dual coil working well on my sigelei, or do I need to upgrade already? Its becoming quite expensive this hobby lol.
Think you may need more watts my friend or a higher ohm build. also the sigelei mini 30 watt has two modes pwm and dc-dc
try running dc-dc with a freshly charged battery and see if thats helps that way it dumps straight voltage from the battery to the build.
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
If you are that interested in cloud chasing that you want to build with dual coils and not be able to see the other end of the room you are in, forget the 50 watt mods and get the Sigelei 150 watt.

With that you will have abundant power for whatever you want to do in the future.

The thing is, I'm not, flavour comes first. It would just be nice to use my device dual coil as it is designed, but there isn't anything wrong with running one coil is there? If I do that it provides more than enough vapour for me, and thats with headroom of around 10 watts, so I am not pushing the device to its limits.

I have to remember there are cloud chasers, and people who do it for flavour. For me, flavour ALWAYS comes first, but I do like the bonus of a giant cloud lol. Unless I really do need dual coil, which I doubt as single coil is keeping me happy to be honest, I will save the money as they are not really cheap.

Sometimes I just need someone else to put it in perspective for me, and realise I don't need any more than I already have. I thank you uncle RJ as I was just going to spend around £70 but you stopped me, and saved me the money. So, I will just build single coil, it keeps me happy, more than enough vape for me and the family even says bloomin ell, thats a bit much aint it lol.
 

BigNasty

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Dude I roll parallels for mom's protanks she uses on a pair of MVP 2. more than enough to push duals if I roll them for her, just a tight bitch on space.
Honestly atm I am rocking a pair of coils in my dark horse at .48 at 35 watts. My Baal is .55 and rocks it at 30 watts.. just depends on how airy I want the draw.
 

conanthewarrior

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Think you may need more watts my friend or a higher ohm build. also the sigelei mini 30 watt has two modes pwm and dc-dc
try running dc-dc with a freshly charged battery and see if thats helps that way it dumps straight voltage from the battery to the build.

Ahh Higher Ohm build, I thought I needed to go lower, my mistake. I guess the extra wraps of a higher ohm build spread the heat across more area? I have posted a far bit but am still learning.
 

conanthewarrior

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Dude I roll parallels for mom's protanks she uses on a pair of MVP 2. more than enough to push duals if I roll them for her, just a tight bitch on space.
Honestly atm I am rocking a pair of coils in my dark horse at .48 at 35 watts. My Baal is .55 and rocks it at 30 watts.. just depends on how airy I want the draw.
So would I use a thinner gauge wire to get a higher resistance coil, but for more surgace area? Thats probably why I notice more equivalent 28 gauge vs 26 gauge, surface area and extra wraps.

Do I go for wide coils with lots of wraps, or under 1.5MM with loads of wraps? As I currently wrap round a 2MM driver to get to my goal resistance.
 

BigNasty

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the protanks are done with 34 ga.
The dual atty set ups are ran with 26 ga, slightly faster heat up due to less resistance but thinker wire.
I think all wires have their place in a coiler's set up. Hell I have a MONSTER coil I call the Burton cause FUCK clapton his puny guitar strings ain't got nothing on a low e bass string. 22 ga core with a 26 ga wrap... just need a monster of an atty to load it into.
 

Mike H.

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You can use a dual coils with 30 watts but ,maybe use a thinner gauge wire to build the coils with...The thicker the wire the more power it takes to heat it up regardless of the ohms.

I can fire dual coil tanks all day long at 10 to 12 watts but they tend to use a thin gauge wire.
 

Mike H.

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Try maybe a 28g or 30g wire....Providing they will fit inside the atty with x amount of wraps to meet your ohms goal.
 

Mike H.

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I'll be experimenting myself with an RDA here shortly.

Im even going to try some dual 32g coils with it and see how 30 watts supplies it..im hoping to do dual 2ohm micro coils for a 1.0ohm target....i have 32 30 28 and 26g to play with.
 

bondo

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Hi people.

I have a sigelei 30 watt mini on the advice of some people here, that I do really like. It really shines if I use only one coil in my RDA, it is like a fog machine.

Thing is, if I go to 2 coils, even on max watts I get either the same clouds or less.

I understand now each coil takes its own watts, so the max they can have is 15. I use my RDA between 20-25.

I am thinking of getting a 50 watt box so I can at least use my el cabron to its full potential, but I don't want to spend the money out then realise that is not enough.

Is there anyway to get dual coil working well on my sigelei, or do I need to upgrade already? Its becoming quite expensive this hobby lol.

This is where the fun starts.
you have all kinds of wiggle room between coil ID,wire guage and target resistance.
if I remember correctly you like to hover around the 1.2ohm range with your builds?
Drop the resistance a tad and wrap with smaller guage and 30w will be more than enough. This is where macro, micro and nano coils become useful.

either go to http://www.steam-engine.org
or download the app and play with the variables.
fwiw,I run two sig30's (and a sig50w for when i need a little more power) and all of my ADV tanks are dual coil.
I had a sig150 and traded it off because it was overkill for my vape style.

So,after the long answer,the short answer is yes,30w is enough to run duals.;)
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
Bondo, thank you. Thats the perfect answer, and I will try maybe some 30 gauge at 0.9? That is the lowest I have gone and still fully enoyed the flavour, below that it tasted burned (single coil).

You said this is where macro, micro and nano coils come in to play. What would I be aiming for? I currently use a 2MM screw driver to make my coils, as it has a really nice grip, where as my precisicion screwdrivers (smaller size) are a very thin range of sizes, and hurt my thumb after wrapping a coil. What would 2MM fall under? I THINK macro is 2.5 and above, so is it micro coil?

Just wondered what would be best to aim for so I can fire duals in the el cabron, I just want one dragons breath tank lol, thats a little insane.
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
the protanks are done with 34 ga.
The dual atty set ups are ran with 26 ga, slightly faster heat up due to less resistance but thinker wire.
I think all wires have their place in a coiler's set up. Hell I have a MONSTER coil I call the Burton cause FUCK clapton his puny guitar strings ain't got nothing on a low e bass string. 22 ga core with a 26 ga wrap... just need a monster of an atty to load it into.

What gauge strings do you use? After years of using 10's, I bought some medium top heavy bottom 11's yesterday, as a lot of stuff I have been listening to is in C. The strings were designed for D, but I use 10's in Eb and D so the assistant said they should give a familiar feel. The actual strings for dropping to C must of been stupidly thick, these just about fitted my guitar, luckily my guitar is designed for that type of stuff it could take the strings.

And is the coil in dedication to Cliff Burton, being called the Burton coil?
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
WOOOOO I just made my first dual coil that is actually worth its salt. I used 26 gauge Kanthal, but left a bit of space between each wrap for more area, and made each coil just over 1 Ohm, it is 0.5 ohm, and for the first time ever this low does not taste burned. It works on 25 watts, going to try 30 in a minute, but it provides at least as much as the single coil did.

I am going to order some kanthal in all different sizes, as I have about 120 feet of 26 gauge, 1 of 28 gauge, and none of the other gauges. I will really play around before I even consider taking into consideration another unit, but if I did, I would only want a 50, as I the highest I fire is 20, 25 when I want mad clouds. The 50 will be able to do that for me, but for now I am going to experiment with different gauges, coil types, and wrapping to find if I can produce more out of what I have got.

Also, Is it safe to turn it to DC-DC mode as someone did recommend that with a fresh batttery, but I am worried that overides certain safety features (Although I am sure it does not, I got a short warning while on DC mode, a wire had come loose and touched the other coil, or outer casing I can't remember which. But that just shows I could of had an accident on a mech mod, another reason I will only use regulated).

EDIT: On 30 watts its pretty beastly. If I can achieve more with thinner wire, I wish to do it. I am not what I would class a cloud chaser, but I would like to build something that is slightly over the top for the fun of it, just so I have done it. Once I have done it, I will probably go back to what I know, single coil at around 1-1.2 Ohms, and be happy :).

EDIT 2: On DC-DC, with a fresh battery, it is a beast. More than I have ever seen. Does this mean as its DC-DC, it is pulling more than 30 watts causing it to ceate more vapor, or is it just better? I usually have my device set to PWM so I can adjust fully, and thats how it come stock.
 
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rdsok

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The comment about PWM vs DC-DC made by Maverick X was incorrect or at least inaccurately described... the way he described it would make DC-DC mode no different than using a straight mech mod and that just is not the case. All safety features are active in both modes... so for one example shorts would still be detected in DC mode just as it would in PWM.

PWM is used when the device can not regulate the voltage down below the battery voltage in order to achieve the voltage/wattage that was selected. To say it another way, when the device can't regulate down and still provide a DC output, it can use PWM to get down to the setting the user selected. Once the output is higher than that amount and it can... it switches to pure DC again. So if you need lower voltages/wattages... use PWM always.

The DC-DC mode just does not allow the device to regulate down below the battery voltage... but it can boost the output and still put out a DC signal. This isn't just a straight battery dump as was mentioned... it is still regulated. If it were just a straight dump then the highest voltage you'd ever see was 4.2v and no more.

By setting the device to PWM... the device can regulate down ( using PWM ) when lower settings are used and once it reaches the battery voltage it will automatically switch to a straight DC output and regulate that output up to the users desired setting. The lowest voltage that the iStick can regulate properly and still put out a DC signal is 4.1v WHEN the battery is at full charge... any setting requiring less than that voltage must use PWM or it can't actually go any lower.

Some users are more sensitive to the lower frequency that some PWM devices have and don't care for it... if the pulses are slow enough they can detect them... this is often referred to as being "rattle snakey" on certain atties. I believe the PWM frequency used on an iStick is about 48hz which should be high enough that most users can't detect it.
 

rdsok

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AWG ( American Wire Gauge ) numbers increase as the wire gets thinner.... so a 28g wire is thinner than a 26g wire and so forth. Europeans will usually measure their wire in millimeters ( mm ) so as their numbers get larger they are indeed thicker. Since resistance wire like we use is sold in both measurements... make certain which is being used when you purchase your wire. Most ribbon type wire is measure using mm since the gauge measurement doesn't translate well to flat wire.

A thinner wire will have a higher resistance than a thicker wire for any given length. If a higher resistance is needed and you have only a small area for the coil... most people will opt for the thinner wire so they don't need to use as many wraps to reach the resistance they desire.

Typically you will get a burnt taste/flavor when there is not enough e-liquid reaching part or all of the resistance wire and the e-liquid evaporates in those spot quicker than it can be wicked back to them. There are a few reasons this can happen... if a wire isn't is full contact ( not tight enough in areas ) with the wick and no juice reaches that area is one. If the wick isn't large enough to keep a supply of juice because the output is so high that it's evaporated too quickly is another. An exposed portion of resistance wire that doesn't touch the wick ( like long legs going to the coil ) is yet another reason. A coil is wrapped too tightly on a wick and therefore chokes off the supply of e-liquid is yet another.

So... If a coil is wrapped well on a wick, in other words, it isn't too tight or loose... and you are getting burnt hits, it indicates the wick you chose is not big enough to supply juice for the output setting you are using. In this case, drop the output setting OR increase the diameter of the wick you are using so more juice is fed to the wire.

Airflow also contributes to some of these issues... the more air you can get across the coils, the cooler they will be also.

Surface area also comes into play... thicker wires will have a larger surface area than the thinner wire for any given length... but a thinner wire if made longer, can have more than a shorter thicker wire. Getting more surface area can increase flavor or vapor production as long as the mod can provide the output in order to evaporate the e-liquid being fed to it. Increasing the surface area means you will need to also increase the output in order to heat a piece of wire quickly enough.

So when building... depending on what you are trying to achieve... means you need to take all of those ( and probably some I forgot to mention ) into account. Dual coils work well in both lower outputs and higher outputs with properly built coils that are taking all of that into account.
 

conanthewarrior

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I am in the UK but the Wire gauge is used, same as peoples ears when they stretch them they go by gauge. With all your information I should have dual coil firing nicely no problem!

Today is the first low resistance dual coil I have made (0.5), and it seems to chuck the clouds quite well with just 15 watts to each coil, Tommorow I am going to order some different gauges and experiment.
 

Maverik_X

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The comment about PWM vs DC-DC made by Maverick X was incorrect or at least inaccurately described... the way he described it would make DC-DC mode no different than using a straight mech mod and that just is not the case. All safety features are active in both modes... so for one example shorts would still be detected in DC mode just as it would in PWM.

PWM is used when the device can not regulate the voltage down below the battery voltage in order to achieve the voltage/wattage that was selected. To say it another way, when the device can't regulate down and still provide a DC output, it can use PWM to get down to the setting the user selected. Once the output is higher than that amount and it can... it switches to pure DC again. So if you need lower voltages/wattages... use PWM always.

The DC-DC mode just does not allow the device to regulate down below the battery voltage... but it can boost the output and still put out a DC signal. This isn't just a straight battery dump as was mentioned... it is still regulated. If it were just a straight dump then the highest voltage you'd ever see was 4.2v and no more.

By setting the device to PWM... the device can regulate down ( using PWM ) when lower settings are used and once it reaches the battery voltage it will automatically switch to a straight DC output and regulate that output up to the users desired setting. The lowest voltage that the iStick can regulate properly and still put out a DC signal is 4.1v WHEN the battery is at full charge... any setting requiring less than that voltage must use PWM or it can't actually go any lower.

Some users are more sensitive to the lower frequency that some PWM devices have and don't care for it... if the pulses are slow enough they can detect them... this is often referred to as being "rattle snakey" on certain atties. I believe the PWM frequency used on an iStick is about 48hz which should be high enough that most users can't detect it.
Thanks for the info I knew it still had safety features ,but thought it would hit harder with a fresh battery in dc-dc mode atleast it seemed that way on mine.
 

rdsok

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Thanks for the info I knew it still had safety features ,but thought it would hit harder with a fresh battery in dc-dc mode atleast it seemed that way on mine.

It'd only hit harder if the PWM mode was dropping the output down some but once it switches back into DC mode after the output matches or exceeds the battery level, the output would feel the same... in DC-DC mode there is no buck ( output lowering ) from the battery voltage level.
 

conanthewarrior

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I used some 28 gauge instead of 26 to reach my goal yesterday. It blows Huge clouds at 28 watts(14 per coil), but I am not sure if it is more than one good single coil.

I am going to order some 30 gauge and give that a go, have some fun experimenting. I do have a feeling though one good coil is enough to satisfy my craving, and still can create some crazy clouds after watching some online videos on cloud chasing (although I don't count myself as one, I prefer flavour, I use zero nic so its flavour, clouds and tech that interest me).
 

Slurp812

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If you are that interested in cloud chasing that you want to build with dual coils and not be able to see the other end of the room you are in, forget the 50 watt mods and get the Sigelei 150 watt.

With that you will have abundant power for whatever you want to do in the future.

+1 Pump up the wattage! Plus more capacity!
 

conanthewarrior

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+1 Pump up the wattage! Plus more capacity!
Thing is I don't really count myself as a cloud chaser, but I seem to be chasing them so I must be lol. Flavour first, clouds second. I might even get a good setup out of the different gauge wire which will be a result, as I only have had this mod like a month. Not buying one yet is the best option, if I need more I will get it in a couple months time.
 

conanthewarrior

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My god. I just used some 30 gauge to make a dual coil set up at 1.6 Ohm's, 20 watts provided more vapour than a single ever has. It turned out at 1.6 as I made it quickly.

I am going to make a 0.9-1.2 Ohm build now. 20 watts worked for 30 gauge, thats only 10 watts a coil. I am amazed, a quick try at 25 and 30 was even more amazing, with 30 being overly excessive. I definitely DO NOT need more than this. That amount of vapour is more than enough for me, I just wanted to make something, that to me, is a bit of a monster. I used 100% VG to test unflavoured as I just wanted to make the biggest cloud I could.

It even works at 15 WATTS, so only SEVEN and a half watts a coil provides reasonable vapour, the same as a single coil did on a much higher amount of 26 gauge.

I am just happy I did not need a new device, it was as simple as using a thinner gauge wire with more wraps.

EDIT: I have a 0.9 in there now. Perfect, and at 30 watts is silly. Even 25 is silly amounts. 20 is like a Excellent single coil, but I find 13.5 watts to be like an average single 26 gauge coil, at 20 watts. So each coil only needs 6.75 watts to match a 26 gauge single at a much higher wattage. I can not believe the difference a simple change in wire can make.( I understand it is less wraps in the 0.9 build than there would be for 26 gauge, but it works a lot better. Maybe it heats quicker? All I know is it works really, really well.)

So, all I needed was some thinner wire, more wraps, and it made a beast, saving me at least £50 in the process of buying another MOD, as I like my little Sig30.
 
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Slurp812

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Thing is I don't really count myself as a cloud chaser, but I seem to be chasing them so I must be lol. Flavour first, clouds second. I might even get a good setup out of the different gauge wire which will be a result, as I only have had this mod like a month. Not buying one yet is the best option, if I need more I will get it in a couple months time.

Well you can always run a 150 at 35 watts. If that is your sweet spot. If you get some new topper, that takes more power to get to the spot, you have plenty to spare. Plus running a 150 watt device @ 30 or even 50 watts is very easy on the equipment. The only downsides are that its a bigger device, and maybe a bit more $$$.
 

conanthewarrior

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Well you can always run a 150 at 35 watts. If that is your sweet spot. If you get some new topper, that takes more power to get to the spot, you have plenty to spare. Plus running a 150 watt device @ 30 or even 50 watts is very easy on the equipment. The only downsides are that its a bigger device, and maybe a bit more $$$.

If i am honest, I was suprised wire thickness can make such a difference. Like I was going to buy a new device, but seeing it in action with the 30 gauge duals not even full power really made me feel good. There is one device that does interest me though, the Sig75 Temp control, but that is not out and I would wait a few months incase there is any issues, for the issues to get sorted before I buy it.

If I do get another device, It is likely to be that, but being on sickness benefit a MOD at the moment is out of the question, and I am quite happy with this one now anyway :).
 

bondo

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See,the fun has started..;)

To answer your previous question, .5-2mm is micro range. Anything smaller is considered nano and pretty tricky to wick properly.
 

conanthewarrior

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See,the fun has started..;)

To answer your previous question, .5-2mm is micro range. Anything smaller is considered nano and pretty tricky to wick properly.
Ok thanks man, yeah I would Imagine a nano coil being very hard to wick! I am using a 1.3MM coil size today, I usually use a 2MM Driver, but tried the smaller one today as it needed more turns, the 2MM hardly needed any, so I used smaller.

Now, the question that I do not understand: If the wire is More resistant, not less, how comes it produces more vapour? I would of though the less resistant coil would heat easier due to there being less resistance and all, or does resistance create heat? I'm still learning lots here, and am amazed that going from 26 to 30 gauge has worked wonders. I have also made a set of 28 gauge 1 Ohm coils to test, I did do that before and I don't think it worked too well, but I will quickly try. If It doesn't work as good as the 30 I will just put them straight back in.
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
I did the same build with some 28 gauge to see how that worked out. Above 20 watts, it seemed to be even thicker than the 30gauge in vapour production, but when turned down hardly produced anything. With the 30 gauge I can use it from 20-30 watts for big clouds, and turn it down for smaller, more single coil like clouds.

The 28 was definitely better at higher wattage though, I only stuck with the 30 due to it being more versatile. I am thinking though, as it is an RDA, I should keep it in beast mode really. I have my other tanks for less vapour. I just can't be bothered to swap them out again lol. I will probably do it tommorow, as I have the coils in a little baggie ready wicked.
 

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