INGREDIENTS TO AVOID USING IN DIY

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - Guides, Tips & Tricks!' started by vapingmandycat, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. vapingmandycat

    vapingmandycat VU Vendor VU Vendor Bronze Contributor Show Host

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    HERE IS A LIST OF SOME IDEA OF WHAT NOT TO USE IN YOUR E LIQUID.
    OF COARSE AS MORE RESEARCH SURFACES THIS COULD CHANGE FOR ALL.
    PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD YOUR COMMENTS AS WELL.



    AVOID ANY FLAVOR THAT SAYS FRAGRANCE OILS!!!
    (some will say small amounts of oil is ok , but there is not enough evidence to support inhaling large percentages of
    oils is safe)
    so until further research caution using oil based products


    NEVER USE ANYTHING WITH INGREDIENTS YOU CANT EVEN SAY!!!

    NEVER USE TITANIUM DIOXIDE, this can be found in lorans food coloring

    NEVER USE HONEY / PURE HONEY FOR A FLAVORING!!!

    GLUTEN FREE IS A GOOD THING

    Some may choose to avoid cinnamon flavors based off this study about inhalation
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0887233313002610

    AVOID BUTTER FLAVOR , IT has been known that a chemical reaction occurs with this flavor that produces
    Di acetyl = The United States National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health has suggested diacetyl, when used in artificial butter flavoring (as used in many consumer foods), may be hazardous when heated and inhaled over a long period.
    tpa Q & A link on this topic
    http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/custard.html


    YOU should Avoid adding food color!!
    Some lorans flavors are already colored ,
    Some may have reactions to food coloring.

    Common ingredients in tpa that are gererally regarded as safer at this time are the following,
    1. pg, Ethyl alc.
    2. pg, water
    3. pg and artificial flavoring.

    POSTED FROM CASAA
    THIS HINTS ON FLAVORINGS AS WELL PLEASE READ
    http://casaa.org/uploads/Are_Electronic_Cigarettes_Safe.pdf
    (Other than diacetyl, no other artificial flavorings have been widely reported to be linked to respiratory illness or disease in factory workers or consumers) note from the casaa post above.
    Wizard labs states on their website the following for you, you have the option of
    tpa, lorans, seedmans, non pg flavors, and wizard lab flavors
    Our Flavor Lab contains a wide selection of over 280 super-concentrated, water-soluble flavorings from various manufacturers. Except where noted, all of our concentrated liquid flavorings are made using FDA approved food flavoring ingredients, are water-soluble, and contain no diacetyl or related compounds. Some of our tobacco-related concentrated flavorings contain non-FDA approved enhancers and flavorings designed for use in the curing and flavoring of raw tobacco and will be noted as such in the flavoring description. Please read the full description for each flavoring for more information before purchase. Wizard Labs only sells undiluted concentrated flavorings direct from the manufacturer. Some flavorings are extremely potent and may need to be diluted down to less than one percent before direct application. Most flavorings reach their peak between 5-10% with a few exceptions. Begin with a baseline of 5% and adjust up or down depending on results. As with all flavorings, individual tastes are subjective and will vary from one person to another. Because of the nature of individual tastes and preferences, Wizard Labs cannot offer refunds based on individual likes or dislikes of a manufacturer's particular flavoring, and all flavoring sales are final. We highly suggest trying an 8ml sample size of any new flavoring before committing to a larger purchase. Note on variations between batches: Over the years we have seen many variations between batches from every flavoring manufacturer. Some have been simple color differences, all the way up to reformulations of their recipes that require updating the list of ingredients. On rare occasions we may have two different batches of a particular flavoring from the same manufacturer which can have slight differences in color, smell, or taste.
    http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/category&path=79

    THIS MAY HELP THOSE USING OR CHOOSING TO USE LORANS THOUGHT THIS WAS A NICE BREAKDOWN OF WHAT AND WHAT NOT TO USE FROM LORANS
    http://bestvaporflavors.com/best-lorann-oils-vaping/
     
  2. Scuba-Matt

    Scuba-Matt Silver Contributor

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    Thank you for this info.
     
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  3. JamesEh408

    JamesEh408 New Member

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    +1 thank yoy
     
  4. VapingCuban

    VapingCuban Bronze Contributor

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  5. daveo111

    daveo111

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    NO BUTTER! I hear almost all of the custards, creams and frosting flavors may be at this "theoretical" risk as well produce over 4 gallons of juice a week. I do my research but if anyone hears anything please keep me posted
    Dave's Vape's
     
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  6. Saddletramp1200

    Saddletramp1200 Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I bought some LorAnn Spearmint oil @ Kroger. It's gluten free. it contains Spearmint oil. Some Adams Extract Peppermint oil, Alcohol & peppermint oil. (alcohol may kill me but I will die smiling) & Schilling Mint Extract. Same stuff. If I'm dead at least it was not from smoking!
     
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  7. ElijahGT

    ElijahGT

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    In regards to custard flavors, I purchased many different flavors from TPA and in hindsight I should have looked closer at the warning lists people have posted for some of the flavors. I avoided all of the flavors that came right out and said they contain some of the ingredients. But others on Wizard Labs weren't as clear, I plan to use them anyways just because I want to experiment with them until I go to buy some better flavorings from other companies.

    But my real question is if many if not all of the custard flavorings use one of the ingredients that are not safe to inhale, how do premium juice makers get by? I'm assuming they use them anyways, and if this is the case I'm going to just use the flavors I ordered too at my own risk.
     
  8. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Many of them DO use them anyway. But some extract their own flavorings, or they use only e-cig flavors by FlavourArt (which have none of those ingredients, not even their creams) or other flavors by The Flavor Apprentice that don't have those ingredients.

    My favorite vapes are cream, sweet, and rich - and I've been able to adapt almost all my recipes to avoid custard notes. I use lots of FlavourArt and several from The Flavor Apprentice that have been tested and shown to have none. (not that I never use any others - I do, but I'm aware of what may be in them and try to minimize my exposure to stuff I don't want to inhale.)
     
  9. Joshua McCord

    Joshua McCord Founding Vendor Founding Vendor VU Vendor New Member

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    There's an awful lot of eliquid out there with oils - anise flavor, peppermint flavor, rum flavor, all citrus flavors.... Even if they're mixed with a base (alcohol, PG) the flavor compounds themselves are oils.

    For what it's worth, that "other" vaping community has been vaping oils for years.
     
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  10. CJ

    CJ VU Webmaster Staff Member VU Senior Leadership VU Senior Administrator Senior Moderator Bronze Contributor Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Anything LorAnn OIL is also out of the question.
     
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  11. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Confusion often arises on "oil" flavorings. DIYers should understand the difference between oil-based flavorings, essential oils, and flavoring oils.

    Oil-based flavorings use a base of vegetable or other oils. Organic oil-based flavorings often use sunflower oil, sesame oil, or almond oil. They are intended for use when cooking with fatty foods. They are usually described as "oil soluble" (or "not water soluble") and/or have vegetable oil listed as a main ingredient. They are designed for flavoring oil-based foods like chocolate rather than water-based foods like hard candy. They are often an entire product line of a manufacturer. Nature's Flavors is one manufacturer with a separate product line for oil-based flavorings. They have an explanation of their product lines here: http://naturesflavors.com/flavors/organic-flavors/organic-flavor-extracts Most but not all all vapers intentionally avoid using oil-based flavorings to avoid the risk of lipid pneumonia from inhaling oil. If you have concerns about inhaling oil (or gumming up your vaping equipment), this is the group to avoid.

    And then there are PG-based, alcohol-based, and triacetin-based flavorings that include essential oils like orange oil, peppermint oil, cinnamon oil, etc.. The major listed ingredient is usually PG, alcohol, triacetin, or a combination. The manufacturer may describe them as "water soluble" flavorings. They're often citrus, mint, or spice flavors. Most manufacturers include some flavorings like this in their product line, and they're quite common in 'natural' and 'organic' flavorings. They are commonly used in vendors' ready-to-vape liquids. You can also find essential oils sold in pure form, often for aromatherapy or medicinal use. For example: http://www.drugstore.com/aura-cacia-pure-essential-oil-brightening-orange/qxp31278 Pure essential oil is difficult to use in DIY because it does not readily combine with our PG/VG liquids. Some vapers avoid essential oils, whether pure or in a carrier base of alcohol, PG, etc. Others compare vaping essential oils to aromatherapy practices or a eucalyptus sauna.

    And then there are flavorings that the manufacturer calls "flavoring oils" that actually contain NO oil at all. LorAnn is an example; here's a short explanation: http://www.thebakerskitchen.net/Candy-Flavoring-Oils.aspx Some vapers won't use anything with "oil" in the name, but these are oils in name only.

    If ingredients are not listed on a bottle or website, you really have to learn to research to figure out what's in them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
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  12. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt

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    Great thread VMC, valuable info.
    Clarifications from HIC are priceless.

    Thanks to the both of ya........ but.

    What's the issue with honey? inquiring minds and all....
     
  13. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    You're looking for a honey flavoring, or you see honey listed as an ingredient?
     
  14. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt

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    No, just wanted to know a bit more as to why honey shouldn't be vaped is all.

    The majority of the cautions in the OP I've been aware of for quite some time but I hadn't heard of issues with honey before.
    What are the possible problems associated with vaping honey?
     
  15. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Honey has so much sugar, it will kill coils and lungs.. :(

    but honey "flavoring" like tfa's black honey tobacco, is fine..
     
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  16. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt

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    Hey Smoky.
    Easy to appreciate what the sugar content could do to the coils but my google-fu must be lacking this morning.
    I've yet to find anything on the interweb regarding adverse health effects from the inhalation of vaporised honey.
     
  17. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Inhaling vapor made with honey is actually a common home remedy for asthma attacks. Of course the concentration of honey in the steam from a cup of honey-water is very, very dilute.
     
  18. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    but.. Honey contains 40% sucrose (table sugar) and 60% fructose (fruit sugar).
    not exactly what I would like to have floating in my lungs..
     
  19. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt

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    The warnings in the OP are important to have out there for all to be aware of and heed, so forgive my bit of a sidetrack.

    Indeed, homeopathic uses of honey, including inhalation, are well established.
    I found this current article; http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/14/176.
    Rabbits were chemically induced into asthma and then a nebulised honey solution was administered. The articles summary indicates nothing but positive results.

    nag, nag, nag (-:
     
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  20. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    when in doubt, olderthandirt lmao..

    but it is not something I would recommend for a new diy'er..
    then again, I won't ask which honey, either :D
     
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  21. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt

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    I've found more peer reviewed articles demonstrating the positive efficacy of inhaled honey. At this point the only issue I can see is the fouling of the coils.

    And then there's that as well. Humbolt and dabbing come to mind (-:
     
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  22. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    You've accounted for less than 40% of the contents of honey: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/loveridge/index-page3.html

    While snorting liquid honey isn't a wise idea,there's no danger in smelling the steam of honey-water.
    Few people snort lavender oil, but it's commonly vaporized and inhaled for aromatherapy.

    In any given substance, consider the ratio of compounds that vaporize to the compounds that don't. Some compounds remain solid at vaping temperature (and stick to your coils). Other compounds vaporize (that's what you smell and taste). You would not be inhaling molecules of "honey" - you'd inhale just the components that vaporize at the temperature you've heated it to. Find out what temperature is required to vaporize sucrose, glucose, fructose, water, maltose, and the other compounds in honey - and you'll know which would end up in your lungs, and which on the coils. Hint: honey clogs coils.
     
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  23. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    Just seeing the sucrose and fructose is enough for me..
    Big difference in smelling and actually putting into your lungs too.
    Lungs do not function like a stomach either.

    Something to think about.
     
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  24. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    Smelling IS putting into your lungs. Just ask those popcorn factory workers.

    A given compound in liquid state differs from the same compound as vapor only in concentration. Very basic chemistry and the reason you can inhale humid air without drowning.

    But you must understand that a substance (like honey) can contain numerous compounds, each with different properties such as temperature required to vaporize. So smelling cold honey can put different compounds into your lungs than smelling steaming honey. Now if you actually ignite the substance, more radical chemical changes can occur and new compounds can be formed (like smoking tobacco). Somewhere between a sniff of honey and a snort of honey - lies vaping. The question of safety would be answered with research, and I haven't seen that anybody has done that. But it wouldn't take a chemisty expert to figure it out.
     
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  25. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt

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    So err on the side of caution.
    Avoid ECDS and don't vape the honey.
    Early
    Coil
    Death
    Syndrome
    (-:
     
  26. Dampgebied

    Dampgebied

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    Honey is poisonous if it's inhaled above 60 degrees Celsius, some say it's just a myth tho...
     
  27. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Cooks who use it in baking might disagree;)
     
  28. Tammy2u

    Tammy2u New Member

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    all great information,so is there any more to vaping essential oils..the theraputic grade? Ive been diving deeper into oils lately and think it would be fantastic if there was a way. I have heard of vitamin type vapes ect. but not oils. wondering if someone has found a way.
     
  29. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    therapeutic grade essential oils?

    no.. and we do not talk on w33d here.. :D
     
  30. nightshard

    nightshard It's VG/PG not PG/VG VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Don't use aspartame as sweetener.
     
  31. LoveVanilla

    LoveVanilla Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Coumarin is often found in artificial vanilla substitutes, typically derived from the tonka bean, and cassia cinnamon (Cinnamomum cassia), not to be confused with true cinnamon (Ceylon cinnamon). Coumarin has "sweet odor, recognised as the scent of new-mown hay, and used in perfumes since 1882". But it is also banned as a food additive in the US and many European countries due to liver and kidney toxicity. You might want to give serious consideration to its use.

    Courtesy of TFA here are some flavors that contain:

    Almond Amaretto Flavor
    Bavarian Cream Flavor
    Black Honey Flavor
    Coconut Candy Flavor
    Holiday Spice Flavor
    Horchata Flavor
    Irish Cream Flavor
    Mocha Flavor
    Pralines and Cream Flavor
    Red Velvet Cake Flavor
    Toasted Almond Flavor
    Waffle (Belgian) Flavor

    In fact TFA's Horchata Flavor contains over 10% coumarin -- while the Horchata Smooth is coumarin free.
     
  32. HeadInClouds

    HeadInClouds Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee Vape Media Unlisted Vendor

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    I wonder how many more states must legalize it before the U.S. (and associated boards like this one) can get over that Puritan/Victorian hangup. :rolleyes:
     
  33. Smoky Blue

    Smoky Blue VU Donator Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years Unlisted Vendor

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    apparently, all..

    but like big tobacco's mafia.. we must appease the political aspect and pay thru our noses.. o_O
     
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  34. ClaireW

    ClaireW Silver Contributor

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    I just extracted a tea and noTiced it has natural honey flavor. Should I keep or dump this mix.?
     
  35. LoveVanilla

    LoveVanilla Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Clare, my concern for self-extractions is with resulting purity. Though not a chemist, my thinking is that extractions by flavoring companies are at purity levels well beyond what one could achieve in the kitchen. And, as a consequence, self-extractions would result in significantly more organic matter inhaled. Again, I am no chemist, and would be interested in other opinions.
     
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  36. ClaireW

    ClaireW Silver Contributor

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    Thank you for feedback. I will follow this closely.

    I've done loose tobacco and cigar. But since tea bags have more ingredients I was curious.

    I would then be curious if loose tea is diff from tea bags.
     
  37. cherrycakes

    cherrycakes Gold Contributor

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    Nvm was just being silly
     
  38. spookiewon

    spookiewon New Member

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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
  39. spookiewon

    spookiewon New Member

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    Titanium dioxide would only be used in a food coloring, not in a flavoring. It's used in foods to make them opaque, and, if you look, LorAnn's flavors are not opaque. They're transparent. But more importantly, titanium dioxide is essentially inert, it's definitely non-toxic. It coats temperature control coils made from titanium and is harmless. It isn't going to vaporize at normal vaping temperatures.

    As for "fragrance oils," normal "essential oils" are confusingly called such because they feel oily. They're not lipids, and there is no reason not to use them. You only need to avoid lipids--which come from animal and vegetable fats and petroleum. If the flavor says it's in vegetable oil or some sort of animal fat or petroleum, that should not be vaped. Essential oils like peppermint or orange oil contain no lipids.
     
  40. spookiewon

    spookiewon New Member

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    This was unintentional, and apparently I cannot delete it?
     
  41. BranDun

    BranDun New Member

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    Great info! Im just starting the diy homemade juices now. Has anyone heard anything bad about the vanilla icecream flavor? The sheet says no Diacetyl but didn't know if I should still be weary. Thanks again
     
  42. SailCat

    SailCat Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Originally said to cause brain cancer by naysayers (probably producers of competitive products), that claim was debunked when it was discovered that Aspartame passes through one's body unaltered.

    As an additive to e-liquids, it may be harmful but pointless in any case. Aspartame loses all it's sweetness when heated whereas Sucralose (Splenda) does not. The use of the later chemical in juices is another issue.
     
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  43. Chaotic_Vapes

    Chaotic_Vapes Bronze Contributor

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    Things that upset me, misunderstood information on things like diacetyl. I'll admit that it's not something good to have in your juice but is it something to go out of your way to avoid? To me, not at all. To my knowledge, there is no current evidence supporting bronchiolitis obliterans (popcorn lung) being caused by inhaling diacetyl. For example take a look at this study done http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/whats-new/whatsnew-2015/236-da2.

    Yes the popcorn factory workers caught it however after 50+ years of smoking analogs how is it that they do not have it? It was the number 1 suspected cause however there was no evidence to support it, making it an iffy thing. Other studies like the one I posted have shown there's nothing to link them together, in fact they mostly show that it has no effects regarding the disease.

    So I would rephrase that to diacetyl being something you should learn about before deciding if it's something that they want to use or not.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere, I'm not looking for a debate. I'm just trying to say what I've learned about it so far.


    Sent from my dos terminal.
     
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  44. BranDun

    BranDun New Member

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    Def agree. Since I've read this and seen all they hype online and on youtube I've researched it more and cigarettes contain it in like 250 350ppm per cig or something crazy where as even eliquid that has it is like 1/10 of that. The name of the game is harm reduction and Noone had fuss about the 4000+ chemicals in cigarettes. So o just think it was blown way out of proportion. But good to know there are people who care aND take it seriously tho
     
  45. CanonShooter

    CanonShooter New Member

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    I realize this is way old now, but what do people think today knowing what they know about harmful ingredients ?, I know a lot of good vendors are not using Capella custard v1 among many other offerings of the same kind..

    my personal stance is I'm still vaping Capella v1 on the daily and will carry on to do so for many years to come, I have tried and made some nice custards without the so called harmful custard notes, and they turned out very nice, just not as nice as good old Capella v1, it's the best and I honestly don't think it's going to cause u any problems, but that's my opinion and everyone has there's lol
     
  46. aoxomoxoa1825

    aoxomoxoa1825 New Member

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    my personal opinion is if they provide current/per batch gc/ms they are golden. People don't hold standards that high for the vast majority of things you encounter on a daily basis. Just know what to look for, use a company that looks and harmful constituents (that we know about) can easily be avoided.
     
  47. IronÅngel

    IronÅngel New Member

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    I am new to all if this, my main reason for deciding to start really finding out what is in my juice is because of a story I heard on the news about a teenager who developed popcorn lung from smoking her E-cig. They did not specify what juice she used, but obviously there is some risk even at the lower levels that we inhale it by vaping. I have asthma so anything that could affect my lungs is a major concern. All of this info has been great, and I have only heard of the one case of a person actually getting popcorn lung from vaping. Still, it is something to keep in the back of one's mind to be careful of how much you vape using juice with that ingredient in it. Thanks again for all the great info! Happy vaping and happy juice making :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  48. Heabob

    Heabob Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I'd be rather suspicious of this type of so called news.
    Considering all the hype against vaping by big pharma & tobacco industry.
    And only one isolated case, supposedly caused from vaping, hmm.
    Maybe it was someone trying to vape pure butter too, or something else even worse, ya just never know these days.
    Nothing wrong with being cautious but some of these "danger warnings" are blown way out of proportion IMO.
     
    gopher_byrd likes this.
  49. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    i agree with that. This was the first time I'd heard of it.

    Lots of negativity, in the news, about ecigs. Most of the "exploding ecigs", are due to user error, and people not knowing about battery safety. Batteries do vent, so knowing how to properly use, and store them, is imperative.
     
    Heabob likes this.
  50. Train

    Train Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Cite?

    Don't believe there is a single case of that...just a lot of fear-mongering mentions of diacetyl and popcorn lung and e-juice in the same bullshit "news".
    I mean, feel free to cut out or cut back on daicetyl, but I don't think there is any actual evidence that it's harmful the way we use it.




     
    gopher_byrd likes this.

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