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I'm thinking of starting an e juice business

creeperfan5236

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Hey guys,
Like the title says, I wanna make juice and sell it for a profit. I got friends who said they'd test out the flavors for me. I ordered the small kit (#1) from here I figured if I don't like it, or I can't do it, I didn't waste too much money. Now, I can make 75 ml of juice. Say if I sold 5 ml for say $5. Thats $15. I lost money. The problem I have is, I don't know how much to sell for in order to make a profit. Anyone got any input in this?

Jason
 

RMarcusY

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First learn how to DIY for your own needs.
Next DIY for others as a hobby.
That should keep you busy for several months with those two steps.
 

creeperfan5236

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First learn how to DIY for your own needs.
Next DIY for others as a hobby.
That should keep you busy for several months with those two steps.
I mean, I get the basic concept PG offers more throat hit with less vapor and VG gives less throat hit with more vapor. I would do a 50/50 mix and use a calculator to figure out the juice. I don't use nicotine. So it shouldn't be too hard.
 

RMarcusY

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It's not hard, and since you are not using nicotine, it's not too dangerous. But people don't buy things they are going to put into their bodies from strangers, That leaves friends. You can't charge friends large amount of money and remain friends.
 

Smoky Blue

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not all friends vape the same juice ratios, either.. and some need their nic..
 

Smoky Blue

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you also need a juice calculator.. even if mixing for yourself..

i'd also start with single flavors and find your happy spot.. before moving on to something complex.
 

creeperfan5236

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But back to the original question. How much should I sell for?
 

creeperfan5236

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you also need a juice calculator.. even if mixing for yourself..

i'd also start with single flavors and find your happy spot.. before moving on to something complex.
I downloaded ejuice me up. Yeah I was gonna start simple (like anything right?) I like a a strong flavor but like you said, my friends may have a different opinion.
 

Smoky Blue

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all you can do is try.. if you have any problems, post up..
lots of nice folks to help out here.. :)
 

RMarcusY

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But back to the original question. How much should I sell for?
I make juice for friends, I usually make them three or four 20ml bottles plus 2 or 3 7ml samples for $15 to $20
 

BoomStick

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Three 30ml bottles from mount baker vapor is about $22 with shipping. It's not premium, but they sell a lot because of the low price. Just a ball park figure to use as a gauge maybe. Good luck.
 

Drone

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I think you're going about this a bit wrong Creeper. First of all, do your research. There is a great subforum on VU to help get you started. Learn all you can before you buy anything. Don't but that EBay kit... you don't even know what those flavors are. Those could be total crap flavorings (and most likely are since the flavor manufacturer isn't even listed). Buy your starting necessities from reputable shops that sell well known and respected flavorings and ingredients. Flavorings, Nic, PG, and VG are not expensive from reputable shops, and these are trusted brand flavorings not no name shit.

I would say don't buy a "starter kit". After a bit of research on the DIY forums you will know what you need and can buy just the things required to make your juice. Even with quality bottles, flavorings, nic, PG, and VG it typically will only cost you 3.50 to make 30ml of juice, so do a lot of experimenting and testing until you get a juice you like... then give it to your friends for comments for improvement. Take your time... learning to make good juice does not come quickly and sometimes can be frustrating. Good juice is never an accident, it is a lot of hard work really and a lot of attention to detail... especially if you want to make that juice again and have it taste exactly the same.

Don't write a juice off as bad until it has steeped for 2 weeks. Almost all juices will change at least moderately in the first week or 2 after you make it (and some drastically), so allow time for steeping to really vet a juice properly.

Check the forum for popular recipes and recreate them very exactly to ease into juice making technique. Document very carefully everything you make and keep accurate records of your juice making and pay special attention to your failures, they will teach you a lot. Above all, resist the urge to embellish a recipe as you're mixing. Stick exactly to the recipe and if you don't like it or feel it's missing something, document the changes you want and make a new batch. In other words, put thought into every change you make and don't add a dash of this or a couple drops of that during a mixing session because it will be almost impossible to reproduce and rarely turns out as good as careful consideration before mixing.

It will take time to make good juice if you are just starting. It would be rare to start making really good, consistent juice in under 6 months. It is a stiff learning curve. But if you're patient and methodical can be very rewarding.

Here are a couple of reputable places to get juice making supplies from, although there are many more:

http://wizardlabs.us/
http://www.ecigexpress.com/
http://www.onestopdiyshop.com/
http://www.nudenicotine.com/
http://www.eliquidmart.com/
http://packagingoptionsdirect.com/
 

MKPM

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I'm not normally a pessimist....but you seem to be more focused on potential profit, than the pride one gets from making delicious juices. In the culinary business....recipe creativity and MONTHS of refinement and trial tasting come before a dish making it on the special sheet. Then that special has to perform WELL and be profitable before it makes it to the menu. All the while, you have to realise when it is a dog, and have the humility to bin the rubbish at the earliest possible opportunity. There are a lot of juice makers selling SHIT....and you can sell shit to everyone ONCE.......let me restate that.......ONCE.
 

ghost62

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To rephrase the OP-
I wanna make easy money.
I can use a toaster.
I think I'll open a restaurant.

@Drone has some great advice.
Zero nic has a small market but you'll eventually want to start making liquid with nicotine (I'm assuming) and that brings in whole new levels of testing, documentation, safety protocols and RESPONSIBILITY.
Irresponsible production and distribution of nicotine juice is one of the big weapons in the arsenal of regulation.
 

VH fan

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It's not hard, and since you are not using nicotine, it's not too dangerous. But people don't buy things they are going to put into their bodies from strangers, That leaves friends. You can't charge friends large amount of money and remain friends.


Was wondering what happened to all my friends , makes sense actually .
 

VH fan

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Bottom line , competition is as ferocious as any out there at this point , thousands and thousands of people have attempted making a profit making juice and have found out it's not that simple .

Making great juice that people will pay for is whats difficult , especially for someone new , any average joe can follow all the recipes online but do they have the talent to come up with great complex blends that people will pay for , thats the challenge.

I have tried it numerous times and failed miserably , the people who are successful at it really have talent , they know how every single flavor relates and works with another , what flavors do not mix well etc...

A hell of a lot harder than i ever imagined it would be. You also got to find a way to send out lots and lots of samples to as many people as you can for free to find out if they even like your juice .

Thats why you see these new comanies offering free juice , thousands of people respond and you got to be all ready with the labels , bottles and other stuff thats required to make it happen.

There was a great thread about what it takes on this forum somewhere and many new companies know very well and admit that they needed to layout a lot of cash and did not even start making a profit till well over a year later .

So, there's a hell of a lot more to consider than just buying a start up kit , the most important thing to find out is if you have any talent at mixing , this is the toughest part imo .

I tried everything and every recipe i came up with (even easy ones ) tasted horrific and were barely vapable. Thats why i named my new juice business " Barely vapable e juice inc" , solely because it's barely vapable and i want people to know that before buying . Received one order during all of 2014 and i was sued .

Very tough business .
 

vaperature

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My advice is why don't you do something that you know about? You seem to know little if nothing about how to make or sell ejuice so why in the world do you want to do it?
 

Iamme

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My advice is why don't you do something that you know about? You seem to know little if nothing about how to make or sell ejuice so why in the world do you want to do it?


They already told you, to make a profit.




Here's my take on juice. I have diyed for about 3 years. I love mixing juice, creating and working on new flavors. I have vaped juices from all kinds of shops and online stores. Money is a reason to sell juice not to make it. Companies that sell good juice do it for a profit, but it is a passion you develops over time. Good juices are not created to make a profit. People mix for a while and say, man I really got something here. Then they sell it. Good mixers mix and sell because they love to mix and make juice. The profit comes as a benefit.


I'm not saying you can not do it. Just that tou should learn the ins and outs of mixing before you do. A year from now who knows where you could be.I have vapes that no one uses but me that I have literally spent over a month perfecting and tweeking in small batches. Most good juice shops will work on flavors for weeks or even months before a juice hits their shelf or web site.A DIY starter kit isn't enough for a beta run IMHO.
 

Pauly Walnuts

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Say the OP can figure out some recipes that are good enough for people to buy (highly doubtful given experience level), there is a huge elephant sitting in the room, that no one has mentioned. Impending regulations. Every day that passes is one day closer to the federal govt running the show, which will shut down every small juice seller who wishes to stay within the law. Some may not worry about it, but its comin whether we worry about it or not.
 

R3alJim Shady

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Say the OP can figure out some recipes that are good enough for people to buy (highly doubtful given experience level), there is a huge elephant sitting in the room, that no one has mentioned. Impending regulations. Every day that passes is one day closer to the federal govt running the show, which will shut down every small juice seller who wishes to stay within the law. Some may not worry about it, but its comin whether we worry about it or not.

I've got three flavors right now that I truly feel are winners and could be worthy of sale. This is the exact reason why I'm hesitant to dump money into something that may not be viable in a year. I read that in order for your juice to be FDA certified, a fee of $4,000 per flavor must be paid for testing. If it's true, that's going to cut the legs out from almost every small juice maker out there. There's a shop just around the corner from me that sells a local line. He has 6 flavors. Do the math. $24,000 is a lot of scratch to keep your business alive.

Selling to friends, it won't matter. But in doing so, I wouldn't charge any more than $10 for a 30 ml bottle. With the cost of the bottle included, my juice doesn't cost much more than $3 to make. There's PREMIUM juice that can be had for less than a buck a ml, let alone some made-in-my-basement home brew.

Due diligence, brother. Gotta walk before you can run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Smoky Blue

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I've got three flavors right now that I truly feel are winners and could be worthy of sale. This is the exact reason why I'm hesitant to dump money into something that may not be viable in a year. I read that in order for your juice to be FDA certified, a fee of $4,000 per flavor must be paid for testing. If it's true, that's going to cut the legs out from almost every small juice maker out there. There's a shop just around the corner from me that sells a local line. He has 6 flavors. Do the math. $24,000 is a lot of scratch to keep your business alive.

Selling to friends, it won't matter. But in doing so, I wouldn't charge any more than $10 for a 30 ml bottle. With the cost of the bottle included, my juice doesn't cost much more than $3 to make. There's PREMIUM juice that can be had for less than a buck a ml, let alone some made-in-my-basement home brew.

Due diligence, brother. Gotta walk before you can run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i have heard it will be around 10k for total cost, per flavor, per juice change..
and yes, it is a death sentence to those starting up, and to all the smaller shops,
so that it will be the larger companies and... big tobacco running things.
 

MKPM

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It is well known, and proven, that of all new restaurants....at least 64% WILL fail. I should imagine that percentage being more in the neighborhood of 80% for juice makers....with the more favourable outcome going towards those that employ full labs with trained staff and aseptic methods.
 

RMarcusY

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The more the government over taxes the juice makers the more the black market will come in and we will end up with a "War on e-juice" and we all know how well it works when the government wages war on something.
 

MKPM

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Sadly, with that scenario....sub-par, and potentially HARMFUL juices will start flooding the market. Quality and reputation will determine just how successful you are in this endeavour.
 

MKPM

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Consistency is another important factor. Velvet Cloud lost my business for this reason. Mewlew's Magic was brilliant the first time I vaped it....but never showed up the same way ever again. Night Shift was also amazing right out of the post box....the second time around it had to be steeped for SIX MONTHS before it tasted even close.
 

vaperature

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Unless they ban the sale of nic concentrate outright, there's no way they can stop DIYing since all the ingredients are completely legal.
 

acidrain23

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I agree with the posters above- I would say focus on flavor development and don't even think about trying to profit until you have some unique recipes that are amazing to vape. The recipe development process is a steeper learning curve that you might think right out of the gate, so don't be discouraged if your first coupe of original batches come out tasting like burnt rubber or roadkill. :)

I sell 30ml batches to my friends (of throughly tested original juice recipes) for $10 each. At that price point, its competitive with commercial juice and usually better than most of the stuff they are getting. Plus it gets hand delivered, so they save on shipping. I have a couple of flavors that cost a little more $15/30ml but those involve more labor so I charge a premium for my time, and they don't mind because they love the juice so much (and again, no shipping fees!).

I only have a couple of friends who buy my stuff, but its enough to keep my hobby self funding and they get to participate in testing out new flavor and suggesting ones as well, so its a win win for us. But definitely not getting rich any time soon!
 

travanx

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As a small business owner myself, 6+ years now, you are going to want to be making at least $30/hr doing this. Anything less and I don't think its worth doing as more than a hobby. At the very least you probably want to be under an LLC with its own bank account. Is there insurance for this stuff? Anything goes wrong and you are toast if you are based in the States.

Figure out how long it takes to make a certain amount of juice. How much each ingredient cost, and start from there. I am sure you can figure out how much it costs to make 15ml of 6mg nic of one flavor at 50/50. Some juices may have more profit and others have less and then it will even out. As my business has picked up and we have become too busy, our hourly rate has come inline with the original target. But it takes a long time to build up a business.

You can see how long the known companies have been around. I would easily say 2 years before making a profit. Its good to be realistic while still shooting for the moon.
 

Time

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If the OP comes back,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

To help answer your question, use the EZmix calculator. I don't have a link for it handy but it will help calculate costs. Then look to see what juice is selling for.
 

creeperfan5236

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I think you're going about this a bit wrong Creeper. First of all, do your research. There is a great subforum on VU to help get you started. Learn all you can before you buy anything. Don't but that EBay kit... you don't even know what those flavors are. Those could be total crap flavorings (and most likely are since the flavor manufacturer isn't even listed). Buy your starting necessities from reputable shops that sell well known and respected flavorings and ingredients. Flavorings, Nic, PG, and VG are not expensive from reputable shops, and these are trusted brand flavorings not no name shit.

I would say don't buy a "starter kit". After a bit of research on the DIY forums you will know what you need and can buy just the things required to make your juice. Even with quality bottles, flavorings, nic, PG, and VG it typically will only cost you 3.50 to make 30ml of juice, so do a lot of experimenting and testing until you get a juice you like... then give it to your friends for comments for improvement. Take your time... learning to make good juice does not come quickly and sometimes can be frustrating. Good juice is never an accident, it is a lot of hard work really and a lot of attention to detail... especially if you want to make that juice again and have it taste exactly the same.

Don't write a juice off as bad until it has steeped for 2 weeks. Almost all juices will change at least moderately in the first week or 2 after you make it (and some drastically), so allow time for steeping to really vet a juice properly.

Check the forum for popular recipes and recreate them very exactly to ease into juice making technique. Document very carefully everything you make and keep accurate records of your juice making and pay special attention to your failures, they will teach you a lot. Above all, resist the urge to embellish a recipe as you're mixing. Stick exactly to the recipe and if you don't like it or feel it's missing something, document the changes you want and make a new batch. In other words, put thought into every change you make and don't add a dash of this or a couple drops of that during a mixing session because it will be almost impossible to reproduce and rarely turns out as good as careful consideration before mixing.

It will take time to make good juice if you are just starting. It would be rare to start making really good, consistent juice in under 6 months. It is a stiff learning curve. But if you're patient and methodical can be very rewarding.

Here are a couple of reputable places to get juice making supplies from, although there are many more:

http://wizardlabs.us/
http://www.ecigexpress.com/
http://www.onestopdiyshop.com/
http://www.nudenicotine.com/
http://www.eliquidmart.com/
http://packagingoptionsdirect.com/

You have a very solid point. but I should've rephrased myself. I was planning on trying it. Seeing if it vapes good, (good taste etc.) and I'd let my friends try some. If they like it, then I'd charge.

My advice is why don't you do something that you know about? You seem to know little if nothing about how to make or sell ejuice so why in the world do you want to do it?

The only way I'll know if I'm good at something is if I try.

I agree with the posters above- I would say focus on flavor development and don't even think about trying to profit until you have some unique recipes that are amazing to vape. The recipe development process is a steeper learning curve that you might think right out of the gate, so don't be discouraged if your first coupe of original batches come out tasting like burnt rubber or roadkill. :)

I sell 30ml batches to my friends (of throughly tested original juice recipes) for $10 each. At that price point, its competitive with commercial juice and usually better than most of the stuff they are getting. Plus it gets hand delivered, so they save on shipping. I have a couple of flavors that cost a little more $15/30ml but those involve more labor so I charge a premium for my time, and they don't mind because they love the juice so much (and again, no shipping fees!).

I only have a couple of friends who buy my stuff, but its enough to keep my hobby self funding and they get to participate in testing out new flavor and suggesting ones as well, so its a win win for us. But definitely not getting rich any time soon!


I didn't plan on getting rich of this. I just figured a couple of extra bucks is all.
 

soulshine

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Creeperfan, please don't take this the wrong way...but the LAST thing the world needs is another juice company. I could understand if you were some kind of chef with innovative ideas and whatever. But this is not the time in this industry to go looking for easy money. It's all been made. Now, the competition is so heavy, even if you have ONE great juice, you have to go to the exact right people for anybody to even hear it about it. The market is already saturated. I totally believe in following your dreams and I wouldn't dare try to discourage anybody from achieving whatever they want. But like I said, the easy money has already been made.
 

creeperfan5236

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Creeperfan, please don't take this the wrong way...but the LAST thing the world needs is another juice company. I could understand if you were some kind of chef with innovative ideas and whatever. But this is not the time in this industry to go looking for easy money. It's all been made. Now, the competition is so heavy, even if you have ONE great juice, you have to go to the exact right people for anybody to even hear it about it. The market is already saturated. I totally believe in following your dreams and I wouldn't dare try to discourage anybody from achieving whatever they want. But like I said, the easy money has already been made.

I'm not sure if I've said this before, but I'm not planning on make a huge corporation. Just a side hobby to sell to my friends. I'm probably aiming to make MAYBE $10 profit. Some is better than none.
 

MD_Boater

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Just wait until the FDA implements their regulations, and e-liquid hits $50+ for a 30ml bottle.

Then, you will be able to sell crappy juice out of the trunk of your car for $25 for a 30ml bottle, and folks will be happy as shit. You'll make a ton of cash and nobody will care if the juice stinks as long as they get to screw the tax man...
 

Tcar

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Back to the OP's question: The reason large juice makers like MBV (which is generally recognized as "ok" juice. . nothing "OMFG wow" and generally mediocre, some of it is pure weed killer) sell juice at that price point is that they are fairly simple mixes and they order the flavors literally by the 55 gal drum. It's the economy of scale. You will never turn a profit that is worth your time (because your time is what we are talking about in a business) using DIY amounts of juice. The margin is thin when you start talking about overhead. It's one thing to sell out of your trunk but the real money is in having other people sell your juice and retailers want it at wholesale price. Col Sanders didn't get rich off selling his fried chicken, he got rich off having other people sell his fried chicken. I've actually looked at what it would take to make juice commercially. I came up with about several thousand in capital needed to make a serious go of it, not counting actual space and facility to mix.

Also, there are a f ton of other people with the exact same idea. No one knows what the final for of FDA regs will be, but there is going to be a huge amount of documentation for any "legitimate" juice company. Likely many will be forced out of the market, which may not me a bad thing IMO as the market is saturated with crappy juice. If you do have a really good mix, someone will clone it on ECF or VU post the recipe, and someone else will steal the recipe and be selling it cheaper. Everyone is working with the same set of ingredients (TFA, Capella, FW, FA etc.) and, aside from a few talented folks with better pallets than mine, seems to be reinventing the wheel. Witness the giant slew of "RY4" type flavors (sweet candy and tobacco)

Learn to DIY first. It's easy to come up with "acceptable" juice. It's another thing to come up with something "OMFG, wow." I have exactly two original mixes after several months that anyone has said "wow, I'd totally buy that." I've never had anyone react to anything I've mixed like they do do HIC's mixes. . .

If you really come up with something worth selling the best way to do that is to third party it out with a co-branding juice maker with an actual clean room etc, that will sign an NDA and make your stuff. One of the store managers for a fairly local B&M did exactly that with the parent company he works for and is seeing decent returns. It all goes back to consistency of product and being able to meet volume demands.

One of the reasons I DIY is the fact that my juice may be kitchen sink juice but it's my kitchen sink.
 

creeperfan5236

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Back to the OP's question: The reason large juice makers like MBV (which is generally recognized as "ok" juice. . nothing "OMFG wow" and generally mediocre, some of it is pure weed killer) sell juice at that price point is that they are fairly simple mixes and they order the flavors literally by the 55 gal drum. It's the economy of scale. You will never turn a profit that is worth your time (because your time is what we are talking about in a business) using DIY amounts of juice. The margin is thin when you start talking about overhead. It's one thing to sell out of your trunk but the real money is in having other people sell your juice and retailers want it at wholesale price. Col Sanders didn't get rich off selling his fried chicken, he got rich off having other people sell his fried chicken. I've actually looked at what it would take to make juice commercially. I came up with about several thousand in capital needed to make a serious go of it, not counting actual space and facility to mix.

Also, there are a f ton of other people with the exact same idea. No one knows what the final for of FDA regs will be, but there is going to be a huge amount of documentation for any "legitimate" juice company. Likely many will be forced out of the market, which may not me a bad thing IMO as the market is saturated with crappy juice. If you do have a really good mix, someone will clone it on ECF or VU post the recipe, and someone else will steal the recipe and be selling it cheaper. Everyone is working with the same set of ingredients (TFA, Capella, FW, FA etc.) and, aside from a few talented folks with better pallets than mine, seems to be reinventing the wheel. Witness the giant slew of "RY4" type flavors (sweet candy and tobacco)

Learn to DIY first. It's easy to come up with "acceptable" juice. It's another thing to come up with something "OMFG, wow." I have exactly two original mixes after several months that anyone has said "wow, I'd totally buy that." I've never had anyone react to anything I've mixed like they do do HIC's mixes. . .

If you really come up with something worth selling the best way to do that is to third party it out with a co-branding juice maker with an actual clean room etc, that will sign an NDA and make your stuff. One of the store managers for a fairly local B&M did exactly that with the parent company he works for and is seeing decent returns. It all goes back to consistency of product and being able to meet volume demands.

One of the reasons I DIY is the fact that my juice may be kitchen sink juice but it's my kitchen sink.

You said something that made sense to me. But I believe someone else said it but it didn't click. When you said learn to DIY first, it makes sense. What if I made the shittest juice, hypothetically say I love it, no one else does.Then I can't sell it because I only like it. But then again, it's a win for me.
 

Drone

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The bottom line... at least for me, is make juice because you enjoy the hobby aspect of it and just enjoy making your own juice. Then, when you start to make juices you like have your friends try them, critique them and offer opinions on improvement. If you start making really good juices after all the experimenting, think about making a business venture out of it. If you approach it as a hobby and let it naturally escalate to where ever that takes you, you will certainly enjoy the ride and just might turn it into a business. But at least you had fun regardless of the way it turns out.

I think you are much more likely to turn out great juice out of enjoyment of the process than with the initial impression it will make money because honestly, making really good juice is a lot of work and patience and only passion for it will lead to great juice.
 

creeperfan5236

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The bottom line... at least for me, is make juice because you enjoy the hobby aspect of it and just enjoy making your own juice. Then, when you start to make juices you like have your friends try them, critique them and offer opinions on improvement. If you start making really good juices after all the experimenting, think about making a business venture out of it. If you approach it as a hobby and let it naturally escalate to where ever that takes you, you will certainly enjoy the ride and just might turn it into a business. But at least you had fun regardless of the way it turns out.

I think you are much more likely to turn out great juice out of enjoyment of the process than with the initial impression it will make money because honestly, making really good juice is a lot of work and patience and only passion for it will lead to great juice.
That's exactly how I'm going about it.
 

creeperfan5236

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Hello all,

Just an update on the juice. The package came in today. I made a 10 ml flavor with peach and watermelon. The peach overpowered the watermelon, but the flavor is steeping as I write this. The whole package came with this
20150116_194058_zps329beb09.jpg

Plus tops for the bottles. Not bad for $20 I'd say. But for my first time making juice, I didn't do to bad. I taste the peach but it is a bit weak.
 

Tcar

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
You said something that made sense to me. But I believe someone else said it but it didn't click. When you said learn to DIY first, it makes sense. What if I made the shittest juice, hypothetically say I love it, no one else does.Then I can't sell it because I only like it. But then again, it's a win for me.
Oh yeah. That is the good part about DIY. When you mix for your own taste, it's never really a waste. (I rhymed. . .) Mixing for other people's tastes. . . Mass appeal. . . that can be tough.
 

creeperfan5236

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Oh yeah. That is the good part about DIY. When you mix for your own taste, it's never really a waste. (I rhymed. . .) Mixing for other people's tastes. . . Mass appeal. . . that can be tough.
True that. Fortunately my friends and I have similar taste.
 

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