Horrible Propaganda Piece (of Shit) - The 8 most bogus health claims of 2014

[5150sick]

http://www.vox.com/2014/12/16/7402053/health-myths-2014


They have 7 mostly factual things then this turd:

8) The benefits of e-cigarettes outweigh the harms

(Thomas Coex / AFP)

This year, more people — particularly teens — used e-cigarettes than at any other time in the past. Part of the popularity of these devices has to do with the mistaken notion that they are somehow safe and fine for your health.

Medical researchers, however, are worried about risks related to using these products, particularly the toxicity of the vapors they produce. Or, they worry that — despite the growing popularity of e-cigarettes — we don't yet have enough data to know how truly harmful they may be.

The World Health Organization has called e-cigarettes safety "illusive", since the ingredients they contain are not always disclosed and there is not "adequate data on emissions." When it comes to helping people quit smoking, they also say the science is not conclusive.

The US Centers for Disease Control takes a similar stance: that there is not enough evidence to understand the health impact of vaping. They warn of the potential for nicotine addiction,poisoning, and call for more robust regulation.

The e-cigs industry, meanwhile, contends they're safe and helpful for getting people to quit real cigarettes, and some former smokers swear by these devices.

Maybe we'll get more evidence and learn that e-cigarettes are much safer than worried researchers could have anticipated, and that industry advocates and vapers are right. But for now, we need to square that future promise with the fact that some e-cigarettes haveexploded in people's faces, and ingestion of the liquid within them has led to poisonings and even deaths.

Related reading: How e-cigarette companies are quietly winning the war on regulation, The most alarming study on e-cigarettes yet, Everything you need to know about e-cigarettes.

 

[Whiskey]

Not to mention the fact that the"teens" are out there causing most of the backlash, starting FB pages and blogs demanding their rights to use these at the same time most are underage and are on the social networks drumming up tons of this talk themselves without ANY supervision, and Antz are having a field day using this against the cause.

Re: the ingredients-There has been a noticeable "good" change in disclosure and lab testing to get these all listed and "out" there for the good of the consumer.

 

[The Vape Space]

I'm surprised that this cat failed to mention that teen smoking rates are at an all time low, and while correlation doesn't equal causation, this should be something to cheer. Now I could make the argument that the inverse relationship between cigarette and vaporizer consumption is coincidental, but it does not seem to be the case, it seems that vaporizers are displacing cigarettes for many young smokers.

Now, I realize that this is illegal, and that my coworkers and I would not support it through trade, but is teen vaping really something to get upset about? With all current short term research, it is clear that vaporizers are safer than cigarettes, and - excluding a utopian world where no one smokes/vapes - isn't this preferable to kids inhaling several hundred known dangers?

 

[freemind]

I'm surprised that this cat failed to mention that teen smoking rates are at an all time low, and while correlation doesn't equal causation, this should be something to cheer. Now I could make the argument that the inverse relationship between cigarette and vaporizer consumption is coincidental, but it does not seem to be the case, it seems that vaporizers are displacing cigarettes for many young smokers.

Now, I realize that this is illegal, and that my coworkers and I would not support it through trade, but is teen vaping really something to get upset about? With all current short term research, it is clear that vaporizers are safer than cigarettes, and - excluding a utopian world where no one smokes/vapes - isn't this preferable to kids inhaling several hundred known dangers?

No.
Teen vaping is BAD. And I'll tell you why. People have equated vaping with smoking. Nicotine is nicotine in the eyes of most people. Truthfully, vaping probably is not all that bad, but you will NEVER get the public at large to see it that way. Just ain't gonna happen.

The same people that would toss vaping into the abyss, would also buy their kids Monster and Red Bull all day. Doesn't make sense, but you can't change people's beliefs overnight. There are far too many people screaming that vaping is evil and poisonous.

And Whiskey is ABSOLUTELY right. Teen have killed it for themselves. So, we can either side with the fact vaping should NOT be allowed to those under 18 or we can kiss any place at the table to talk, away.

 

[5150sick]

The funny thing was was back in the 50's and 60's nicotine was the supposed evil while tar and carbon monoxide got the pass
The cigarette companies actually invented this inaccuracy in order to sell "low nicotine" cigarettes.
Then finally scientists started realizing the truth and started saying "people smoke for the nicotine and die from the tar".
This was great for Pharma to sell their almost useless gums and patches.
Now all of a sudden nicotine is the monster again.
The excuse "it's not FDA approved" makes me trust ecigs MORE!
Ecigs will NEVER be FDA 'approved' are cigarettes? No!
FDA 'controlled' is more like it.

Do any nicotine product (NRT included) belong in the hands of anybody under 18? NO!!!

After the FDA tries to control the market, gets sued, and the courts decide we won't have to worry about it as much because then it's failed enforcement of existing law that gets blamed (as with cigarettes) but until then it's up to US!

We get blamed until there is a country wide minor ban gets put into place then we can flip it back on them for not enforcing their own laws.

 

[M5amhan]

When it comes to helping people quit smoking, they also say the science is not conclusive.

if thats the case then fund the science, make history. im confident in the findings. we all know this is just propaganda though

 

[The Vape Space]

No.
Teen vaping is BAD. And I'll tell you why. People have equated vaping with smoking. Nicotine is nicotine in the eyes of most people. Truthfully, vaping probably is not all that bad, but you will NEVER get the public at large to see it that way. Just ain't gonna happen.

The same people that would toss vaping into the abyss, would also buy their kids Monster and Red Bull all day. Doesn't make sense, but you can't change people's beliefs overnight. There are far too many people screaming that vaping is evil and poisonous.

And Whiskey is ABSOLUTELY right. Teen have killed it for themselves. So, we can either side with the fact vaping should NOT be allowed to those under 18 or we can kiss any place at the table to talk, away.

I get what you're saying, I'm not even making an argument for legalization for those under 18. I'm just trying to get a consensus on an individual level here that teen vaping is preferable to teen smoking... We won't convince those who are irrationally against vaping because 'it looks like smoke', or because of faulty science, but we can at least look at the bright side and see that less kids are smoking today than ever before in modern history.

 

[freemind]

We would be foolish to say if vaping is better than smoking for teens. We would just point ourselves as fools and supporters of teen vaping.

 

[5150sick]

once again: After the FDA tries to control the market, gets sued, and the courts decide we won't have to worry about it as much because then it's failed enforcement of existing law that gets blamed (as with cigarettes) but until then it's up to US!

 

[The Vape Space]

We would be foolish to say if vaping is better than smoking for teens. We would just point ourselves as fools and supporters of teen vaping.

If vaping is not preferable to smoking, for health and/or aesthetic reasons, then why would anyone ditch cigarettes and vape?

once again: After the FDA tries to control the market, gets sued, and the courts decide we won't have to worry about it as much because then it's failed enforcement of existing law that gets blamed (as with cigarettes) but until then it's up to US!

I actually don't think that a lawsuit against the FDA would go through.

 

[5150sick]

The lawsuit will be claiming that the FDA does not have jurisdiction over ecigs under the 2009 family tobacco control and prevention act because ecigs are not tobacco products.

Judge Leon only said they couldn't be pharma products and the FDA could TRY to deem them as tobacco products in the njoy/sotera case.
He never said it wouldn't/couldn't be challenged.

The FDA is going to have a hell of a time proving 0 nic juice and 18650 batteries are tobacco products.

If they win then ANYTHING with PG, VG, food flavoring, or a battery in it could be taxed as a tobacco product!

The FDA has no chance with mods or 0 nic juice.

They might be able to deem nic.

 

[freemind]

If vaping is not preferable to smoking, for health and/or aesthetic reasons, then why would anyone ditch cigarettes and vape?




I actually don't think that a lawsuit against the FDA would go through.

Because it is HARM reduction for tobacco users just like nicotine gum.

It is not a harm free thing.

 

[The Vape Space]

Because it is HARM reduction for tobacco users just like nicotine gum.

It is not a harm free thing.

We would be foolish to say if vaping is better than smoking for teens. We would just point ourselves as fools and supporters of teen vaping.

A) Vaping is a harm reduction method for humans who smoke.

B) Youths who smoke are humans.

C) Vaping is a harm reduction method for minors too.

I mean consistent logic can be a hard pill to swallow, because sometimes it leads us to conclusions that are uncomfortable. I don't think that this should be our poster child (no pun intended) argument, but using your own statements this syllogism was easily extracted, and it seems to be valid.

 

[freemind]

A) Vaping is a harm reduction method for humans who smoke.

B) Youths who smoke are humans.

C) Vaping is a harm reduction method for minors too.

I mean consistent logic can be a hard pill to swallow, because sometimes it leads us to conclusions that are uncomfortable. I don't think that this should be our poster child (no pun intended) argument, but using your own statements this syllogism was easily extracted, and it seems to be valid.

Unless you were born smoking I fail to see your very SKEWED logic.

 

[The Vape Space]

Unless you were born smoking I fail to see your very SKEWED logic.

Because no one has ever started smoking between birth and the age of 18

 

[freemind]

Because no one has ever started smoking between birth and the age of 18

Because it is ILLEGAL to smoke before you are 18.

Run in circles all you want. Your skewed logic is just that to me.

 

[The Vape Space]

Because it is ILLEGAL to smoke before you are 18.

Run in circles all you want. Your skewed logic is just that to me.

Words on paper are not an omnipotent buffer against human action. If it was, murder, rape, and ***use would have ceased to exist a long time back.

Now just because you don't like the conclusion that I extracted doesn't make it skewed. If you could disprove the syllogism without getting fallacious, I welcome it.

 

[freemind]

Those words on paper are LAW. If you do not respect, in the least, that humans make laws and they are to be followed for good reason, then you have serious issues.

Teens may drink as well, but society will not turn the blind eye (only idiots would) because that is just something "kids do".

What you propose, and take a stance FOR, is anarchy.

We are a nation of laws. If you don't like them, then I think you should do something about it rather than arguing on an internet forum about how right you think a free for all is. Because you will stand alone.

Kids are NOT responsible for themselves and for the most part, not responsible for their actions. Their parents are. Kids do NOT have a full set of "rights" like an adult does.

Kids are not OLD ENOUGH to make a life altering decision like that for themselves. Sorry.

 

[The Vape Space]

Kids are not OLD ENOUGH to make a life altering decision like that for themselves. Sorry.

According to the evidence they are making that choice, and even the law isn't stopping them.


The point is simple, and you avoid it. Teen vaping is preferable to teen smoking. Not anarchy vs. the state, or the law = morality, the law = science, we should sell minors vaporizers, or nicotine for teens is bad, it is teen vaping, while not optimal, is preferable to teen smoking.

If people under 18 are biologically not human, then the syllogism will need revision.

 

[freemind]

According to the evidence they are making that choice, and even the law isn't stopping them.


The point is simple, and you avoid it. Teen vaping is preferable to teen smoking. Not anarchy vs. the state, or the law = morality, the law = science, we should sell minors vaporizers, or nicotine for teens is bad, it is teen vaping, while not optimal, is preferable to teen smoking.

If people under 18 are biologically not human, then the syllogism will need revision.

There are SEVERAL States already that make it ILLEGAL for teens to use ejuice and the like to vape.
Beer and alcohol is ILLEGAL as well to minor. I wonder how they are getting it? Suppose some unscrupulous business, employees and idiots over 21 are supplying them?

Teen vaping is NOT preferable at all. Teens are teens. They are not adults and are not old enough to make that decision. Only a really foolish person, OR someone profiting off kids using vape would take such a position.

You don't sell juice do you? Hmmmmm?

So instead of acting sly, and trying to wax the philosophical, why don't you just put your AGENDA on the table. You are selling juice, and the teens buying it represent enough of your sales, you would rather NOT lose that money rolling in.

You have just shown yourself a liar, in my eyes. ANY business, should take the stance kids should NOT be using Nic. If you support kids using it (because you ARE in your "argument") then your agenda is simply putting money in YOUR pocket.

Nothing has shown VAPING to be 100% safe. Not even 90% safe. Or even 50% safe. Nothing. Your true colors are showing. Money hungry and DGAF.

 

[The Vape Space]

There are SEVERAL States already that make it ILLEGAL for teens to use ejuice and the like to vape.
Beer and alcohol is ILLEGAL as well to minor. I wonder how they are getting it? Suppose some unscrupulous business, employees and idiots over 21 are supplying them?

Teen vaping is NOT preferable at all. Teens are teens. They are not adults and are not old enough to make that decision. Only a really foolish person, OR someone profiting off kids using vape would take such a position.

You don't sell juice do you? Hmmmmm?

So instead of acting sly, and trying to wax the philosophical, why don't you just put your AGENDA on the table. You are selling juice, and the teens buying it represent enough of your sales, you would rather NOT lose that money rolling in.

You have just shown yourself a liar, in my eyes. ANY business, should take the stance kids should NOT be using Nic. If you support kids using it (because you ARE in your "argument") then your agenda is simply putting money in YOUR pocket.

Nothing has shown VAPING to be 100% safe. Not even 90% safe. Or even 50% safe. Nothing. Your true colors are showing. Money hungry and DGAF.

I actually said quite clearly that I don't support teen vaping with trade, however, if you'd like to poison the well because you can't understand a very simple phrase go ahead. We can stand up to any slanderous claims with evidence.
It's really just a simple observation. I had several aunts and uncles die from smoking, they started much younger than 18 and they would have been much better off in a world where vaping existed.

It would be great if we lived in a world where no one smoked, or vaped, as the lungs are a very sensitive organ. But people, in a great range of ages, will continue to do it. And your utopian views don't change this ugly truth. If they mitigate the risk, and choose a safer alternative, then it is better for them, and their families.

Nothing has shown anything to be 100% safe... and I never claimed vaping was. People die from water, they die from food, they die from the sun, it is about mitigating risk. There is a large consensus in the scientific community that vaping is significantly safer than cigarettes, this is the foundation for the conversation we are having.

If you do not think that vaporizers are safer than cigarettes, then I don't know why you would choose to vape. But go ahead and continue to contradict yourself, scream shill, slander us, and act irrate, just don't think for a second it's a substitute for critical thinking "free mind."

 

[freemind]

While I agree with you on most of your points, you are dead wrong about kids and vaping being a better alternative for them.

The better alternative is, NOT using nic until they are 18 or older. Suggesting anything else is plain stupid. Even debating that it is a "healthier alternative" for them is DAMAGING to the vaping community. Are you unwilling to see that? Are you so thick, that you can't understand WHY suggesting this is detrimental to the cause?

Just because they may decide to smoke regardless of the law (or vape), doesn't mean we should even HAVE the debate or purse the thought from our lips that vaping is better for them. You have thrown away your points when you bring this INTO a debate about vaping. Period. Suggesting as such IS laying support to teen vaping.

No one will listen to you when you start talking like that.

You DO also realize that anyone in the vape trade that says that, is going to be seen as a flake that is ONLY concerned with making money off kids too, right? Because there is MUCH, MUCH truth to that. ANY business owner saying such a thing, IS selling to kids. Others see it too.

So forgive me if I see you as a fool. While you opine that you are on the righteous side of this, you will not get many people to agree with you. Of those that do, I don't REALLY think you want them standing beside you.

 

[The Vape Space]

Sorry the observation wasn't PC enough.

FDA scary... Vaping Bad... Teens Dumb...

 

[freemind]

Your "observations" are a thinly veiled agenda. Support for teen vaping. You quickly forget, WE NEED public support. You will NOT garner public support slinging around bull like that.

The ONLY people that will support teen vaping are teens and those who PROFIT from them vaping. So wasting anyone's time, bringing the teen aspect INTO this debate in the "light" that you choose to shine on it, only negates ANYTHING you say before and after that.

 

[galsvapetoo]

How about we worry more about not selling actual tobacco products or alcohol to underage minors.. I love how that's not a big deal anymore but vaping is. & regardless teenagers are going to do what they want to do. I was buying cigarettes and alcohol at 17. Does it make right no but you can't tell a teenager not to do something when you know that's exactly what they are going to do. And honestly I'm happy vaping. I feel healthier. I don't have heartburn. I quit getting all twitchy like omg it's been 2 hours I need to have a smoke. I don't smell like a big ashtray and my car smells nice. I spent like upwards of 200$ on cigarettes in a month. Now I maybe spend 30-40$ depending on what e liquid I'm out of and sometimes not even that much. Let scientists do the research I doubt that all us vapors are going to quit after feeling amazing from quitting cigarettes

 

[freemind]

Vaping IS a big deal, because teens are using it for nic. YOU may not worry, but the public is.

Like it or not, you have to choose a side. If you don't, someone else will choose for you.

 

[galsvapetoo]

well I hate to sound cliche but there are way more important things in life I would rather battle about than teenagers doing what teenagers are going to do. I'd rather the public worry more about the homeless, world hunger, our military women and men, children's education, and animals. This is much more to the world and America than teenagers smoking cigarettes or vaping.

 

[The Vape Space]

We all agree that selling alcohol, tobacco, and whatever nicotine delivery system to minors is bad. Yet, they find a way to get them. Hell, drugs are illegal and they are in high schools. What would happen to ever make this stop?

I mean, call me insensitive, or not politically correct, but I have seen enough 'think of the children' scare campaigns to not buy the propaganda. Scare tactics only work for so long, and in the end it must not be about combating them with more fear, but instead with reason and evidence.

 

[freemind]

We all agree that selling alcohol, tobacco, and whatever nicotine delivery system to minors is bad. Yet, they find a way to get them. Hell, drugs are illegal and they are in high schools. What would happen to ever make this stop?

I mean, call me insensitive, or not politically correct, but I have seen enough 'think of the children' scare campaigns to not buy the propaganda. Scare tactics only work for so long, and in the end it must not be about combating them with more fear, but instead with reason and evidence.

I mostly agree with you. From a standpoint of logic, you're right. But the public at large does not use logic, but instead emotion to make decisions.

Even though vaping IS a better choice than smoking cigarettes, you will not get most people to see them differently. You just won't, no matter how much you think you can or will educate them. There are too many other places spreading mis information. Demonizing vaping as if it is as bad as smoking.

If you want a place at the table to discuss vaping in the context of laws and safety, you have to avoid bringing the teen aspect into it. As soon as you bring it up in the context you have here, people will stop listening to you and instead disregard everything you have to say.

 

[The Vape Space]

We spend a lot of time on social media, and in our personal lives (I know I do) dispelling, and combating misinformation. I don't see people as irrational, or rational, I see them as individuals with the capability to grasp and choose. I take it on a case by case basis, and I have gotten very good results with the slow weathering of evidence. Of course there are always those people that act as though they are chaste, baptists and could never be tarnished with such impurities, but many more respond in a rational way.

However, even some topics are too taboo for most people. But as a consistent advocate of freedom, this is nothing new. As a community, I think it behooves us to not slink down to those people's level, and instead encourage people like Konstantinos Farsalinos, and others attempting to do in depth studies on Juice, Delivery Systems, and other vital, but ignored aspects of vaping.

 

[freemind]

Yes, but you have to understand a little about human behavior and psychology too. Just because you think people have listened to you and swayed to your side, doesn't mean their actions will.

Sometimes people say things (like they agree with your presentation) and then will go on to support the other side when a vote comes about.

That's not to say I disagree that vaping is better or that more studies to provide conclusive evidence are not needed or are not important. I agree with you.

Most people use emotion, not logic to make decisions. Almost no one wants a "truly free" society. People scream about their freedoms then turn around and demand protections that hamper that freedom.

 

[The Vape Space]

At that point it's about personalizing the experience to that person so they extend the basic empathy behind freedom to others.

For example:

We both agree on loving coffee.

We discuss how caffeine and nicotine are very similar drugs.

We then can establish that banning e cigs because of nicotine, would be comparable to banning coffee because of caffeine.

Or:

We both are drinking a beer.

Underage drinking is brought up.

We discuss how futile it would be to ban alcohol because of underage drinking. This principle is then extended to e cigs.


These basic trains bring empathy out in most people, and use their frontal lobes to establish truths. If it doesn't on some, that is fine. Can't appeal to everyone, but who do you want as an advocate - the thinking people, or those so inept that they confuse thinking with feeling?