Totally agree. My point was that both high wattage and low are good. Depends on the person. It's too bad it's hard to find low power equipment these days.
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High-power rigs are killing my vaping enjoyment
- Thread starter Giraut
- Start date
I agree.
There's plenty of Low wattage devices being released ALL THE TIME, the problem for you probably is that they mostly tend to be non-rebuildable.
Have to remember this too that the sub-ohm crowd is a money maker, most are willing to buy new tanks every 1 or 2 months, the MTL people I know have been using the exact same tank for a very very long time, one I know on a more personal level has been using the Nautilus Mini for like 2 years straight and doesn't even think about upgrading because she's happy. Manufacturers are in it for the money which really sucks for MTL people but business is business.
One can do big clouds without high power as well.
yeah and the Subtank Mini V2 has been discontinued....
That's true for the people who have been vaping for a while and are sticking to an MTL style. I'm one of them. I have enough of the gear I use to last a lifetime. But one of the reasons I'm not buying new gear is that there isn't any new gear available that actually suits my vaping style. Every time I've tried something new that looked like it might be promising lately, I've been disappointed (Anyone want a Chalice IV?)
Then there's the question of gear for people who are just coming off cigarettes. Sorry, but 100-watt super-airy vape with 3mg juice is not the optimal thing for a middle-aged person to try to use to quit smoking.
Yep I quit with cigalikes and 18 mg juice.
You guys know you don't have to use all of those nasty watts right? You can run your atty for a month on a 200 watt mod. Or would there be whining about how you miss charging your batt 3 times a day, or the spine crushing weight of a 2 18650 mod.
I see a great many good MTL attys. A lot of shit has already been done. And then there are MTL attys that the Pooiferz won't even try. If I could only have one atty, it would be the TFV-RTA. It has Juice control, you can remove the entire base, and deck with a full tank, and not spill a drop, and with the single coil deck, mounted with the coil just above the airhole, the flavor is off the charts. But try and get a militant MTL ( the ones that shit talk other peoples vape preferences) to even try it.
A CE4 does not rock most peoples world anymore. But they are so sure that the evil cloud gangstas are somehow responsible for their inability to make their own juice, or modify an atty specifically to their taste. Get some skills. Get some tools.
I have not yet found an atty that ticks every box I'd like to see, so I make them more to my liking instead of blaming others. Why settle, when you too can have a Goliath V2 with 8Ml capacity, and top fill.
And if anybody expects sympathy because its hard to find spontaneously combusting 25 watt iStick mods these days, expect to be mocked.
I see a great many good MTL attys. A lot of shit has already been done. And then there are MTL attys that the Pooiferz won't even try. If I could only have one atty, it would be the TFV-RTA. It has Juice control, you can remove the entire base, and deck with a full tank, and not spill a drop, and with the single coil deck, mounted with the coil just above the airhole, the flavor is off the charts. But try and get a militant MTL ( the ones that shit talk other peoples vape preferences) to even try it.
A CE4 does not rock most peoples world anymore. But they are so sure that the evil cloud gangstas are somehow responsible for their inability to make their own juice, or modify an atty specifically to their taste. Get some skills. Get some tools.
I have not yet found an atty that ticks every box I'd like to see, so I make them more to my liking instead of blaming others. Why settle, when you too can have a Goliath V2 with 8Ml capacity, and top fill.
And if anybody expects sympathy because its hard to find spontaneously combusting 25 watt iStick mods these days, expect to be mocked.
We all know my story by now, but for those that don't, I'll try to summon it up.
Smoked for nearly 30 years total, on and off in between, tried vaping 4 years ago as evod pens were a thing, but didn't work for me.
8 month ago tried again, but this time with the ecigs by blu, and well what to tell you, it did not work.
4 month ago, as I got not so pleasant news from my doctor, I wanted to vape full time. So for me in this case, wasn't the money that would have me stop smoking, but my health.
Walked in a vape store to get some info, was pushed right away into sub ohming, being sold a 85w device, baby beast tank and a .04 ohm coil, as well as a 3 mg juice. I didn't felt satisfied, in fact now I was doing both, a cigarette here and there (still up to a pack a day that time), plus a vape here and there. I also constantly felt that I had to get other mods, tanks, juice etc. Reading how it is so great for others.
I tried then mtl and above ohm vaping, I absolute didn't like it, the hard drag and barely vape production, as well as harshness of juices, was just horrible. To that time I didn't know I was very sensitive to PG.
Went back bought my first RDTA, shop owner made me 2 fused Clapton's, set it to 120 w and got me out the door. I got no flavor from my juice, the heat nearly made me burn myself and gave me that sick feeling, my batteries were draining like no tomorrow and I ran through 30ml of juice in no time. I got clouds so, but not what I wanted.
I was about to give up again, till I thought to myself, let's look in that whole vaping trend a bit further. After lots of research, trial and error runs, finally I run a single simple wire build in my RDTA, at 30-45 w and Im more satisfied, I can't say I fully love it yet because my RDTA is meant for big/huge builds, and while it can do single setup, some of my flavors aren't there etc but in general, I don't fog up the whole room, I also don't run through 2-4 batteries within 45 minutes anymore, nor do I vape 30ml of juice. I do chain vape and have not experienced the its to much kinda thing. I also do not smoke any cigarettes the last 4 months anymore, hence I can proudly say when asked that I started vaping 4 month ago.
However, as others have mentioned, everybody enjoys vaping differently and we all should support each other. I understand that due to the huge cloud chasing trend, the companies focus and priority went that direction, but it will tip over eventually and the focus will just go to low/mid range wattage vaping, mtl and DL, and products will once again come out more frequently for the above ohm/mtl vapers and maybe slow down sub ohm a bit. I myself being sick and tired of the hundreds of products and juices released every 3 days, if it even takes that long.
Look at the "new" nic salt trend, could find plenty of reasons to complain about that lol
Smoked for nearly 30 years total, on and off in between, tried vaping 4 years ago as evod pens were a thing, but didn't work for me.
8 month ago tried again, but this time with the ecigs by blu, and well what to tell you, it did not work.
4 month ago, as I got not so pleasant news from my doctor, I wanted to vape full time. So for me in this case, wasn't the money that would have me stop smoking, but my health.
Walked in a vape store to get some info, was pushed right away into sub ohming, being sold a 85w device, baby beast tank and a .04 ohm coil, as well as a 3 mg juice. I didn't felt satisfied, in fact now I was doing both, a cigarette here and there (still up to a pack a day that time), plus a vape here and there. I also constantly felt that I had to get other mods, tanks, juice etc. Reading how it is so great for others.
I tried then mtl and above ohm vaping, I absolute didn't like it, the hard drag and barely vape production, as well as harshness of juices, was just horrible. To that time I didn't know I was very sensitive to PG.
Went back bought my first RDTA, shop owner made me 2 fused Clapton's, set it to 120 w and got me out the door. I got no flavor from my juice, the heat nearly made me burn myself and gave me that sick feeling, my batteries were draining like no tomorrow and I ran through 30ml of juice in no time. I got clouds so, but not what I wanted.
I was about to give up again, till I thought to myself, let's look in that whole vaping trend a bit further. After lots of research, trial and error runs, finally I run a single simple wire build in my RDTA, at 30-45 w and Im more satisfied, I can't say I fully love it yet because my RDTA is meant for big/huge builds, and while it can do single setup, some of my flavors aren't there etc but in general, I don't fog up the whole room, I also don't run through 2-4 batteries within 45 minutes anymore, nor do I vape 30ml of juice. I do chain vape and have not experienced the its to much kinda thing. I also do not smoke any cigarettes the last 4 months anymore, hence I can proudly say when asked that I started vaping 4 month ago.
However, as others have mentioned, everybody enjoys vaping differently and we all should support each other. I understand that due to the huge cloud chasing trend, the companies focus and priority went that direction, but it will tip over eventually and the focus will just go to low/mid range wattage vaping, mtl and DL, and products will once again come out more frequently for the above ohm/mtl vapers and maybe slow down sub ohm a bit. I myself being sick and tired of the hundreds of products and juices released every 3 days, if it even takes that long.
Look at the "new" nic salt trend, could find plenty of reasons to complain about that lol
Took me a couple of years to find my ideal vape. Had a lot of fun getting here and just honestly do not care what other people think about how I vape. I'm courteous when around others, I don't vape where I didn't smoke. I don't think how anyone else vapes is wrong, unless it isn't working for them. Do you and I'll do me and let's compare notes and have a conversation. For me is that simple.
That is heartbreaking news and a loss for the vaping community. Still the best crossover tank IMO.yeah and the Subtank Mini V2 has been discontinued....
AndriaD
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I've been building my own coils for over 3 yrs -- and see no reason whatsoever to build them differently -- 1.5 to 2 ohms, around a 3/32 drillbit, using 29ga kanthal. I've been using an Achilles for over 2 yrs because THEY'RE FUCKING GREAT. I don't see any reason why they should have stopped being carried by Frog in Fog just because not many want them -- how difficult could it be to keep a few in stock? Or to order another 50 from alibaba if someone orders it and it's not in stock? As best I can tell, Yeahsmo seems to still make them; they're advertised on Alibaba -- but you have to order 50 at a time, and have some kind of business number or something, pay for them with a bank draft??? WTF???
You cannot use a DtL atty and expect it to be any damn good with the kind of build and wattage I require -- I HAVE FUCKING ASTHMA!
Those of you who don't have asthma and wanna blow huge clouds, go do so, and shut the fuck up about MtL vaping, because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Some of us NEED to vape that way; is it really so much to ask the vaping industry to make a FEW great attys for those who CAN'T handle massive clouds??????? But I guess you cloud chasers think we aren't REAL VAPERS and should just go back to smoking.
Andria
You cannot use a DtL atty and expect it to be any damn good with the kind of build and wattage I require -- I HAVE FUCKING ASTHMA!
Those of you who don't have asthma and wanna blow huge clouds, go do so, and shut the fuck up about MtL vaping, because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Some of us NEED to vape that way; is it really so much to ask the vaping industry to make a FEW great attys for those who CAN'T handle massive clouds??????? But I guess you cloud chasers think we aren't REAL VAPERS and should just go back to smoking.
Andria
Says who? The vape pens didn't do it for me. A Smok M65Pro, and Aspire Atlantis did. At 8Mg/Ml.
I'm down to 3 now. The "optimal thing" is whatever works. Be it a CE4, or a quad Clapton RDA. If you don't like it, don't fucking vape it. No need to transform into a Vape-Nazi-FDA wannabe, passing judgement about what does and does not work for others.
I suppose it was inevitable. Sooner or later, eCigs were going to become so mainstream, that all the Buffet World pundits were going to bring their judgemental narrow-minded polyester bullshit, and use eCigs as yet another venue that only exists for them to bitch and whine about, as if they had in some minute, paltry way contributed, other than try to out do each other by purchasing the latest "acceptable tech".
It had to happen. I've seen it before. It was just as sad. When they infested the internet, there was at least a period of time, a calm before the storm, where they were somewhat contained on AOL. Their technical ignorance preventing them from learning how to program Hayes commands into their dial up modems. Then came Windows.
And then they screech about how some ruin it for the rest of them.
I quit smoking (16 - 17 red Marlboros per day for more than 20 years) instantaneously the same moment I picked up vaping. This was at 80 watts on a pair of handmade fused claptons in a 25mm Troll RDA 2 with the air holes 2/3 of the way open and 4.5-ish mg juice, mid January this year, and I'm turning 45 about a month from now, AND, only about 4 weeks after I quit smoking I built my own pair of coils... staple staggered fused claptons. They took me from noon till morning to build... I was so knackered I didn't mount them into my Troll until the day after I finished building them:
My build ohmed out at .11 ohms... and then I vaped it at 140 watts. After having chain vaped on it 24/7 for more than 11 weeks, the coils had finally worn out, but I have been keeping them in my Troll just for a souvenir:
I do agree the majority of new vapers will do better with mtl high mg nic. I was not one and am glad that now newb's have more options. That is why when asked I tend to recommend Kanger STM or Toptank. Gives them a chance to experiment with af options.
I agree that the optimal thing is whatever works. However, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on what's likely to be optimal for most people who are trying to quit smoking, because let's face it, most people don't DL-hit their cigarettes, and handing them a rig that must be used in an entirely different way than how the smoked is probably going to be a turn-off.
That said, I have no qualms with anyone vaping however the want. I simply lament the fact that quality MTL gear has become difficult to find for those who want it and for whom it's likely to be most appropriate.
This is what I do also @Letitia9. And that they are available with both built heads and rebuildable options is also really neat. There are so many options out there, it just seems to me it's best to go with the ones that offer the most versatility to new vapers.
yes the very good usually forgotten tank.
Good for a bit loose MTL to a restricted lung hit.
And many paople that use the Billet boxes also use the same factory coils as the STM's use
But most of the billet box users would never admit to using a Kanger Subtank Mini
I only use the RBA though and the flavor is GOOD.
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I quit smoking with a Joyetech eRoll and 36 mg juice. I get more buzz with 3 mg juice in any modern atomizer, but it's been a while since I could go a full day on 2 ml
I still vape at very low power when I use my favorite stealth vape mod, which puts out 30 times less power than my biggest cloud chucker. But I'm certainly not 30 times more frustrated when I use that little thing. So low-power vaping certainly is more efficient financially.
Using less juice is also likely healthier, specially if there is anything questionable in the juice. That's one of the reasons I went lower.
Firstly, please don't take my postings here as a personal attack on you. That is not my intention, you seem like a well meaning nice guy. Most smokers that I've converted to vaping, started on Kanger Subtank starter kits. This is about to change, due to many other options now available.The STM combo got over 20 of my friends and acquaintances off the stinkys. Only one, still vapes on them, the others have moved on to gear that they like better. About 1 out of 3 build, and another 1 out of 3 have 2 or more attys, that I build/wick for them while they use the other one.Only 3 are what most here would consider as vaping hobbyists. For some, took 10 or more different devices before something worked for them. With experience, I've improved as far as predicting that will or wont work, but nothing is 100%.
I have very little, to no concern as to what is optimal for most people who are trying to quit smoking, My concern is reserved for those that ARE quitting smoking, but have not found the correct devices, or combo of devices. I usually advise that they should not frequent vape forums until they have fully quit, because there is too much information, information not necessarily applicable to someone who has no clue what they need, and it can be a negative influence.
I'm fairly adamant in explaining that what works for me, may not work for them, and not to just get what I, or anybody else uses, or some random person's recommendations, who is not aware of what they have already tried,
A surprising number, really want to quit very badly, but their gear of two years ago failed them, and it almost seems that they are reluctant to have a second go at it, because they don't want to be disappointed again. They are actually fearful that they will not get the Nic they believe they need.They tend to be much more receptive to something they know delivers, and many will eventually gravitate to more middle of the road gear. For me, the first time I felt ill from vaping too much Nic, was the moment I realized I was done with smoking.
I cant begin to relate how many times I've heard " I just want to stop smoking, I don't want to make little wire circles, learn Newton's laws or whatever, and I definitely don't want to be part of any fucking community!" They usually don't want any flavoring either. The 3 that I consider serious vaping enthusiasts now, originally were squarely in this category, and were previously heavy smokers.By no means conclusive, I admit, but not worth dismissing either.
So, if I appear to react a little abrasively, please understand that neither my new vape gadgets, or yours begin to compare, at least from my perspective, with the importance of someone beating the stinkys, and not having to worry whether they are doing so in a manner that pleases others. There are enough stigmas applied unfairly to ecigs by those who stand to profit from creating , and maintaining such perceptions, that we need not do their work for them.The FDA, et all are very concerned about what type of devices we use.
They have an entirely improper reason for this. They receive too much revenue from smokers to be concerned about our insignificant little lives, maxamizing profit is all they care about. And their profits rely on smokers. Many people have strong likes, and dislikes regarding flavors, so it is not a huge stretch to imagine the results if the fruit flavor crowd started whining about the desert flavor fans.
There are lives at stake. That should be important enough to justify not going after other vapers for their personal vaping likes, or dislikes.
Thus endeth the rant.
Chum
Member For 5 Years
MTL made me cough. Went right back to cigs. Warm vape at 100 watts or more DTL I was able to quit. I am respectful to others when I vape. Smoked full flavor cigs for 40 plus years. Vaping full time now since I was 59 years young. Now I am 61 and feel like I am 15. Perhaps because I was born on Leap Year Day LOL!!
Sounds like you have it whipped.