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Help me set up my Mech please

Hi Y'all,

I have recently bought an Ultroner Omegacoil mech mod, I have a Bonza 1.5 RDA to accompany it, I am running Demon Killer Framed Clapton coils which are sitting at 0.26 Ohms per coil, I have 2 coils in my RDA, so if I am right that would be 0.13 Ohms in total. I am now struggling to figure out which battery I should use as i am restricted to 18650 batteries due to the size of my Mech... can anybody Please help me?

Thank you,

JB
 

5150sick

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8f29ccad-c518-40a5-bacb-a161db6f8ee5-jpeg.864273


Something on this chart with an Estimated CDR (Yellow Row) of at least 25A but preferably 30A
 

DonBaldy

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I will assume you have an ohm reader or at least a regulated mod to verify the resistance of those coils. IF not please get one. Please never, ever trust the resistance stated on the package no matter whether they are inexpensive coils like those you've listed or more expensive by popular coil builders. Always verify for your own safety.
 

nadalama

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I will assume you have an ohm reader or at least a regulated mod to verify the resistance of those coils. IF not please get one. Please never, ever trust the resistance stated on the package no matter whether they are inexpensive coils like those you've listed or more expensive by popular coil builders. Always verify for your own safety.

^^^^^^ This! Especially when you're that close to even a good 18650's limits!!!
 
I will assume you have an ohm reader or at least a regulated mod to verify the resistance of those coils. IF not please get one. Please never, ever trust the resistance stated on the package no matter whether they are inexpensive coils like those you've listed or more expensive by popular coil builders. Always verify for your own safety.


Hi Don,

thanks for your reply, yeah I have a regulated mod to confirm the Ohm of my coils.

thank you,

JB
 

Carambrda

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Hi,

thank you for your response, so anything from LG HB2 - LG HB6?

thank you,

JB
No, all of those are mediocre performers when compared to the Samsung 20S. And no, none of the ones that are rated at 25 amps (yellow column) can outperform the Samsung 20S on a single 18650 battery mech at .13 ohms... all they do is increase the level of risk for no good reason at all and basically that's just it, they all are obsolete, noticeably for what you're trying to achieve (and, BTW, in several many respects, they also are obsolete for what you're NOT trying to achieve so, still no).
 

casketweaver

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Hi Y'all,

I have recently bought an Ultroner Omegacoil mech mod, I have a Bonza 1.5 RDA to accompany it, I am running Demon Killer Framed Clapton coils which are sitting at 0.26 Ohms per coil, I have 2 coils in my RDA, so if I am right that would be 0.13 Ohms in total. I am now struggling to figure out which battery I should use as i am restricted to 18650 batteries due to the size of my Mech... can anybody Please help me?

Thank you,

JB
This is gonna sound shitty of me to say this, but...

With the larger wire mass, you're going to need more power. And from personal experience, nothing provides that power better than a series (stacked) or regulated device my man. Especially if you're looking for an instant fire / almost 0 ramp up time. Now thats out of the way...

Of you're still going to try it, then knock yourself out. As for batteries - the 20S are good or the HB6 for higher amp ratings (30A - no questions asked). I run the HB6 for .11 - .15ohms because it's always nice to have some overhead. LOL! granted, they don't last very long and tend to need cycled out quickly, but the worries of drawing more amps than the batteries are rated for is almost non-existent. So long as you're not running .001 - .1, you'll be fine.

But on that note, depends on what you're really running.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Carambrda

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This is gonna sound shitty of me to say this, but...

With the larger wire mass, you're going to need more power. And from personal experience, nothing provides that power better than a series (stacked) or regulated device my man. Especially if you're looking for an instant fire / almost 0 ramp up time. Now thats out of the way...

Of you're still going to try it, then knock yourself out. As for batteries - the 20S are good or the HB6 for higher amp ratings (30A - no questions asked). I run the HB6 for .11 - .15ohms because it's always nice to have some overhead. LOL! granted, they don't last very long and tend to need cycled out quickly, but the worries of drawing more amps than the batteries are rated for is almost non-existent. So long as you're not running .001 - .1, you'll be fine.

But on that note, depends on what you're really running.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
No, as a matter of fact the worries of drawing more amps than the batteries are rated for are VERY existent, the biggest worry being people who fail to acknowledge this important fact. But then, there also exist certain things that we can do do prevent these same worries from growing too severely out of our control, like, we can decide to ignore those people and watch Mooch correctly explain all the other worries in sharp detail on YouTube. :D
 
Hi y’all,

thanks for your responses, I have decided to change my build to two 0.45ohm coils about 0.22-0.23ohm in total, I’m now using a Sony VTC6 which is what my local vape shop recommended to me, thoughts?

thank you,

JB
 

nadalama

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My somewhat limited experience says you're a lot safer at 0.22. I would run that myself on a decent 18650, which the VTC6 is. Just be sure to check it on a reg mod first, both without the RDA cap, and then again with it. Make sure your completed build, with the cap on, has no shorts or other problems. Fire the coil several times to ensure that resistance doesn't fluctuate (SS will fluctuate, but only within a narrow range - any wild fluctuation indicates a problem).
 

casketweaver

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Hi y’all,

thanks for your responses, I have decided to change my build to two 0.45ohm coils about 0.22-0.23ohm in total, I’m now using a Sony VTC6 which is what my local vape shop recommended to me, thoughts?

thank you,

JB
The VTC6 is a good battery. As for coils, before you strap the atty to the mod, check resistance. If you have a burning tab, use it. Get into the habit of:

1.) installing the coils
2.) tightening the screws
3.) adjusting the coils
4.) double check the screws
5.) trimming the leads
6.) checking the screws again
7.) check resistance on burning tab / ohm meter

Then thread the atty on and dry burn to check for proper glow. Spaced coils usually always glow inside out on the first go. Micro (or contact coils) usually have to be pulsed and 'brushed' or strummed. Don't use metal tweezers or pliers while firing for obvious reasons. After you dry burn your coils, run your wicks and finally check your screws again. I can't stress enough checking your connections.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
The VTC6 is a good battery. As for coils, before you strap the atty to the mod, check resistance. If you have a burning tab, use it. Get into the habit of:

1.) installing the coils
2.) tightening the screws
3.) adjusting the coils
4.) double check the screws
5.) trimming the leads
6.) checking the screws again
7.) check resistance on burning tab / ohm meter

Then thread the atty on and dry burn to check for proper glow. Spaced coils usually always glow inside out on the first go. Micro (or contact coils) usually have to be pulsed and 'brushed' or strummed. Don't use metal tweezers or pliers while firing for obvious reasons. After you dry burn your coils, run your wicks and finally check your screws again. I can't stress enough checking your connections.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

I have ceramic tweezers and I can check the ohms properly on my regulated mod, thank you all for your help
 

MyMagicMist

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Fire the coil several times to ensure that resistance doesn't fluctuate (SS will fluctuate, but only within a narrow range - any wild fluctuation indicates a problem).

A rough rule of thumb for fluctuation tolerance is +/- 0.05. So for example you're aiming for 0.25 hitting 0.30 or 0.20 would not too far out of whack. Any more than that tolerance range I'd rebuild the setup. Not worth risking any trouble. I prefer around 0.30 to 0.50 myself running single cell 18650s, with 0.30 being my preferred sweet spot. Find if running 0.25 or lower it saps the voltage quickly during use and gives a vape too hot for my tastes.

Take what you need, leave what you don't and clearly this is only my opinion, ymmv and all the usual standard disclaimers. :)
 

Carambrda

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Hi y’all,

thanks for your responses, I have decided to change my build to two 0.45ohm coils about 0.22-0.23ohm in total, I’m now using a Sony VTC6 which is what my local vape shop recommended to me, thoughts?

thank you,

JB
The Sony VTC6 is only a 15 amp battery (i.e., 15 amps is the CDR of the VTC6), albeit it also has a temperature-limited rating, which is 20 amps up to 80 degrees Celsius (176 Fahrenheit).
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...0mah-18650…a-fantastic-15a-20a-battery.846895

As for how to correctly apply general rules of battery safety recommendations, when talking about the amps, the only proper advice I can give you (when you're just starting out on a mech) are these two videos:


At 22:47 in the 2nd video he talks about temperature-limited ratings. If you're using 0.22 ohms on a single VTC6 in a mech, in practice you're drawing 17.4 amps, or actually a bit lower than that if we also account for the resistance of the mech mod, BUT... now we are assuming your ohms reader is accurate, which, personally, I can not assume so as a result from this we HAVE to recommend to stay below the CDR, just to be sure. Hopefully you can understand why.
 

MyMagicMist

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So is that 0.30 a single coil set up?

Most often times, yes it is a single coil. Find I can do as well as a dual with a single, not boasting just what it is. About as fancy as I'm getting any more is a SSL316 at 26 awg parallel single coil build. That's two strands of 26 g kept parallel. I think it gets wrapped 7 to 8 times around a 3 mm inner diameter. Steam Engine guided me to that so it could tell you for sure on number of wraps. I should probably know but I suffer from c.r.a.f.t at times. :)
 
I’m running dual 0.45ohm juggernauts, they’re reading 0.30ohms as a dual coil, but my ramp up is really long how do I shorten this?
 

MyMagicMist

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I have to agree with using less mass. If I had a set of those coils, I'd be happy running a single one at 0.45 oHm. The mass will slow down the voltage traveling simply because there's more mass, more area to cover.

Here is about what I run looks similar to:

hqdefault.jpg


Yes, it too has some mass. The mass though for it is displaced evenly which gives voltage less resistance. It helps keep a cooler vapor being produced. It also heats up quickly enough and evenly. Here is a twisted parallel in Kanthal. It can be done in NiChrome or Stainless as twisted too. And here's a humdinger quad core.

You can do all kinds of fancy building if you desire. I find though the fancier you get the more issues you face. There's times I just use a strand of 26 or 28 awg Kanthal wrapped 5 times around a 3 mm ID. Yay! It's simple as simple can be. it works just fine though. I am though becoming something of a @The Cromwell devotee to using these parallel builds. they work just fine, too. :)
 

dre

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Take off a wrap will help or use a regulated mod.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

casketweaver

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Configuration:

SINGLE 21700 iJoy ~25A discharge

Dual spaced 20G SS316L - 6wrap approx .13 - .15 ohms

Atty - Bonza 1.5 / 25mm cap

Bottom airflow only

2 sec ramp up time

HOT 5 SEC PULLS

9mg blue raspberry

232ce56732de74dbf3e21398a0880790.jpg
8468f74170b8f4c0ee8a9fe4ddb06b85.jpg
99498d5237017e25682f996a6a0848bc.jpg
f552ab6a36a1ab2688babe5f982644e6.jpg
d0ded7c34b8814c1e241f08688d5ce78.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Carambrda

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Configuration:

SINGLE 21700 iJoy ~25A discharge

Dual spaced 20G SS316L - 6wrap approx .13 - .15 ohms

Atty - Bonza 1.5 / 25mm cap

Bottom airflow only

2 sec ramp up time

HOT 5 SEC PULLS

9mg blue raspberry

232ce56732de74dbf3e21398a0880790.jpg
8468f74170b8f4c0ee8a9fe4ddb06b85.jpg
99498d5237017e25682f996a6a0848bc.jpg
f552ab6a36a1ab2688babe5f982644e6.jpg
d0ded7c34b8814c1e241f08688d5ce78.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
The iJoy 21700 is one of the worst performing 21700 battery choices to use on a mech, though... it simply doesn't hit anywhere near hard enough to be worth getting IMO. But still better than nothing I guess. :p
 

Carambrda

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My Mech only takes 18650
Nothing wrong with that... the VTC6 is actually quite good performance for a single 18650 battery mech at or above 0.22 ohms, but personally I would go for the types of coils that use much thinner wire sizes, as others have suggested (and moving to coils that have 3 thinner core wires instead of 2 thick ones gives the opportunity to keep the length of the coil pretty much the same while still also reducing the total amount of metal, so IMO go for 3-core fused claptons, or better yet, 3-core aliens, preferably all Nichrome 80 for the fastest rampup and cooldown). But I don't vape on the VTC6 because how I like to vape requires almost double the amount of power.
 
I’ve seen parallel fused claptons

Fused Clapton Coils, dual 28Ga core with a 36Ga outer wrap. With a 25Ga SS wire wrapped parallel would this be good for 18650 VTC6
 

MyMagicMist

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Here's the specs on the coil you're looking at:

Code:
Resistance     0.253     Ω
... per unit length     2.31     Ω/m
TCR in vaping range     879     ×10-6
TC precision     223   
Heat flux per Watt     0.90     mW/mm²
Heat capacity     235.36     mJ/K
Current per Volt     3.95     A
Power dissipated     100.00     %
Width     1.35     mm
Thickness     0.57     mm
Length     109.90     mm
Surface area     1108.90     mm²
Cross section area     0.34     mm²
Volume     58.84     mm³
Mass     470.72     mg
Density     8.00     g/ccm

Here is where those come from.

You can run 0.25 Ω on a single cell 18650. The voltage drop though will be quick. You will need to recharge more often. I have tried 0.25 Ω myself and did not enjoy having to recharge as often, or the heat from the vapor. When you run something like that you are going to be pushing the batteries. The more batteries get pushed the more the risks increase that something adverse, possibly dangerous might happen.

So yes, you can technically do this if you so desire. From my perspective it seems a bit unsound to follow that path. I like keeping batteries safe. @casketweaver 's example above presents a very thoroughly researched and balanced approach to a build set up, he's also using a bit of a bigger formed battery capable of pushing what he has balanced. Note too his coils are simple built coils, nothing fancy just straight single strands of wire.

I've tried dual coils on an 18650 and found they end being too much mass, too much for the battery to push. Yes, in some regards if I built better that might not be the case. Ultimately though in my humbled opinion I do not see it so much as a builder's skill influencing mass. There's only so much skill going to offset so much mass and then reality sets in and you're still facing that mass. Facts don't change merely because you might be good at making pretty designs, no, facts stay facts. Mass also stays mass.

And a fact I see here is if you push batteries you improve risks that something you may not desire will happen. To me it isn't worth playing around to possibly get a venting or combusting battery. That's my opinion and only that ultimately, an opinion. Take or leave what you want, ymmv and all the standard disclaimers apply.

Oddly enough I know some that do run as low as 0.10 Ω on a single 18650. Not quite sure how they pull it off and suspect there is possibly some leg pulling going on too. Though there are a few who if they say they're capable I'm sure they've studied and found a slender means to be able to do it. I will not ask how they do it because for me it seems a pipe dream at best.
 
Last edited:

casketweaver

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The iJoy 21700 is one of the worst performing 21700 battery choices to use on a mech, though... it simply doesn't hit anywhere near hard enough to be worth getting IMO. But still better than nothing I guess. :p
Yeah it's a leftover from my various mods. It drains fast as hell, but for what I use it for, it does what I need it to do.

The purpose of that post was a simple showing that wire mass (depending what he's aiming for) isn't always better. But that's just my take on it.

For what he's running - on mech - I say the simpler the better.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Carambrda

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Yeah it's a leftover from my various mods. It drains fast as hell, but for what I use it for, it does what I need it to do.

The purpose of that post was a simple showing that wire mass (depending what he's aiming for) isn't always better. But that's just my take on it.

For what he's running - on mech - I say the simpler the better.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Simple round wire (parallel wraps or not) and spaced coils aren't my bucket of tea. Normal 3-core aliens are just sooooooo easy to build, and they keep sucking juice up fast out of the cotton wicks during my pulls... I only use mechs and very rarely use a true PWM mod (Surric X-Vault), but I can't even remember when was the last time I vaped at less than 100 watts because, for me, having such low power is just a typical weak, oomph-less, anemic vape, always, regardless of whatever anyone ever tries to suggest to me.
 
Okay so now I am running so fused claptons at 0.83ohms per coil and dual they’re about 0.58ohms, not a lot of flavour though?
 

nadalama

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I’ve seen parallel fused claptons

Fused Clapton Coils, dual 28Ga core with a 36Ga outer wrap. With a 25Ga SS wire wrapped parallel would this be good for 18650 VTC6

If I read your post correctly, that is a Staged coil you're describing, and yes, it would be great with an 18650 VTC6, but only as single coil.

You didn't say what metal your Clapton wire is. You also didn't say how many wraps in the coil. But there's only so much room in an RDA, and a Staged coil would have to be pretty big to have enough resistance to run two of them within the safe range of a single battery, plus then you are once again talking about heating up a lot of metal.

Staged coils are my absolute favorite for single-battery mech builds, as single coils in something like an Elder Dragon or an Asmodus C4 (or a Radius, or a B2K, or an O-Atty, or even a C2MNT).

Strictly speaking a "parallel fused Clapton" would be two Clapton strands wrapped in parallel, at least imo.
 

nadalama

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Okay so now I am running so fused claptons at 0.83ohms per coil and dual they’re about 0.58ohms, not a lot of flavour though?

Check your coil placement. You want to be able to look through the airflow and see that the air would hit the bottom half of each of your coils.

What kind of RDA? Still the Bonza?
 

nadalama

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Yeah still the bonza they’re kanthal wire

New coils? New wicks? That might have something to do with it, too. Things need to break in some.
 

nadalama

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They look mighty low to me. Try raising them up some. I think you're going to want the top of the coils at least even with the top of the posts.

The airflow is on the sides of the cap, right? Above the walls of the deck well? Yeah, I'd pull them up, just be sure not to pull them up so far they short out on the cap when you put it on.
 

MyMagicMist

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They look mighty low to me.

Agreed on that. You might also try pushing your wick that is in the coil toward the bottom of the coil. Leave space between the top of the wick and bottom of the coil's top. Maybe 0.5 to 1 mm, and let that be all the way through the coil. I find this helps airflow and flavor, at least in my case. Ultimately though, what suits you is what you need to do. *chuckles* We just don't want to see people going boom, or anything that might get them hurt. And yes, I even worry over myself at times.

Ipav8d.jpg


Hopefully that will show what I'm referring to regarding creating an air tube in the top of the coil. The wick in the picture is dry but you can see how the shoulders of the wick do not press up to the top portion of the coil. I do similar, keeping the wick away from the top of the coil, as I said maybe half to a 1 mm. It's just enough the air can come through the coil over the wick. A lot of people cram the coil solidly packed with wick. That can often cause flavor muting because the coil isn't able to "breathe".

Picture not any of my builds. I only got a phone cam and despise using it. What pics I post here are usually taken by my wife. She's presently absent. I put on a Kanthal build yesterday morning as well, a 0.30, at least close to that. I didn't test it I admit. I'm relying on guidance from Steam Engine and past experience. I don't think it's any lower than 0.25 or higher than .35. "Gimmemin."

Well my mistake it's reading .41, so I was more off on my build than I thought. It's still not anything I'm concerned over other than just needing to realize I have to build better next time.
 
Last edited:

nadalama

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Single between .70 and .83

Pairs of coils you use together in an RDA need to have very close to the same resistance.

0.7 and 0.83 is too much disparity to use those coils together, imo.
 

Carambrda

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The thick 32g Kanthal A1 wrap wire that is used to fuse the two 28g core wires together in these coils is slowing the rampup a great deal, and, at such a high resistance there isn't a lot of power being produced to heat up all that metal to begin with. Moreover, the fact the two 28g core wires are Kanthal A1 is not exactly helping to fix that problem, as Kanthal A1 heats up real slow compared to Nichrome 80.

That said, the thickest wrap wire I ever use is 36g. And, like I previously noted, Nichrome 80 only for me so I don't boil out all the nice flavors slowly before they get the chance to turn to vapor... IME adding more power by significantly lowering the resistance also is paramount, albeit the power needs to be carefully matched to both the total surface area of the coils, the coils' juice adsorption rate, and the strength of your draw, albeit the airflow is also greatly affected by coil positioning and the size of the air intakes, both of which are key important factors in addition to all this.
 

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