Getting hotspots on a spaced SS coil for TC

Discussion in 'Coil Building' started by antikryst, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    Just got a therion 166 so I'm playing around with TC. Loving it at 450 to 480 with the serpent RDTA with a 6 wrap spaced 24 guage spaced coil. Well... Loving it when it works.

    There are times when it just stops working.. hitting temperature without even much vapor. Opened the atomizer and it seems like it has a nasty hotspot.

    Cleaned the coil by dry burning and rewicked.. seems it's there again since I get a burnt taste at times on the same build even on power mode.

    I did the usual dry firing until coil heats up evenly when the coil was new.. do I need to do it on less watts taking care of it not getting too hot like some say?

    I'm thinking I ruined the coil by firing it maybe too hot so now it has hotspots even if it's just 2 days old.

    Any tips on prepping a plain round wire SS coil for temp control?


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  2. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Try a new coil. I wipe wire with a paper towel and isopropyl alcohol before I build. After it's installed I just barely pulse it to get whatever oils may be left on it burnt off. Barely a glow. Also, use low wattage when you do it to let it slowly get up to just burning off oil temp, not nuclear war glowing hot.
     
  3. Dead Gummy Worm

    Dead Gummy Worm Silver Contributor ECF Refugee

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    I would say new coil as well. also ensure your coils are still properly spaced AFTER wicking... wicking can pinch the loops together which will make hot spots, take a precision flat head and gently space them until even distance between all wraps will help mitigate it. TC is wonderful :D
     
  4. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    You never need to heat the coil to more than a dull red glow.... by dull I mean you don't even see the glow unless in a dark room. I use the lowest wattage that produces color with a 2 second fire.

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  5. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Sounds more like a wicking issue than a Hotspot issue... what wattage are you running in TC. Maybe your heating too fast.

    Fwiw 2 days is about average wick lifespan for me.....

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  6. Johnnytraveler

    Johnnytraveler Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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  7. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I build to run at 15 to 20 watts a dry burn at 10 or less. I think the starting watts has more to do with build than an arbitrary number. 15watts might not even warm some really big coils.

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  8. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    What's the logic for not making it really glow?

    Made a new coil already. But I still pulsed it a bit more than the suggestions here. Maybe I'll redo it tomorrow.



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  9. Foggz

    Foggz Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    SS if dry fired too 'hot' can lose it's temper/characteristics which may cause it to not heat evenly as well as some health issues- one article here:

    http://www.vapingpost.com/2016/03/08/a-chemists-advice-dont-dry-burn-your-coil/

    Another thing and more likely your issue is the propensity for DNA devices to have this issue.. "weak or lite vapor" / Flashing Temp Protect immediately - DNA devices like your Therion are complex sensitve devices and perform much better once Tuned and configured properly.
    Likewise, some atomizers experience fluctuating resistance due to construction quality, not being screwed down to the mod tightly, condensation or leaked fluids / dirty contacts on the 510 or the atty, loose 510 or circuit board connections and/or ground wires, etc.

    Do make sure you have the latest evolv DNA firmware as some earlier firmware for the DNA boards were temperamental with SS and TC to say the least. You will need to install EScribe software to test and configure your Therion. Do take the time to configure the battery capacity as well as the case thermal's and the mod's internal resistance. This TUNING of your mod will almost always result in a very noticeable difference.
    Check out Wingsfan0310 for info regarding DNA chip profiles and escribe (the software to configure and test your DNA mod), He has a couple of threads regarding HCIGAR DNA's and others and has spent much time setting them up. I believe he has some config files available within his sig file as well. Good luck Good Vape !

    http://vapingunderground.com/threads/hcigar-vt133-vt167-dual-18650-dna200-250.171476/
     
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  10. Angrygod50

    Angrygod50 Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I use 24G SS and never use more than 20 watts and only get a slight glow. Learned the hard way if you get SS too hot it not only gets brittle but it doesn't work as well.
     
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  11. DavidOH

    DavidOH Member For 2 Years

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    Now I see this thread after I learn the hard way.o_O One question though. Is there any benefit to removing the wrap from the legs of your coil? Besides getting into a smaller post hole.
     
  12. Johnnytraveler

    Johnnytraveler Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Very good point. If you build higher ohm or smaller build coils, you'll need to dry fire at lower wattage. The important thing is not to dry fire ss like other coils.
     
  13. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    My build last night started acting up again after being good for maybe 6 mils of juice.

    How do you clean coils by the way? Same low wattage dry burn and water?

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  14. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Better electrical connection... Fwiw in the old days this is how claptons were installed.... mainly because most atties at the time we're wrap-on-post connection rather than hole in post.

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  15. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Same low dry burn.. when gunk ashes up... blow or brush debris away. Rinse and vape

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  16. DavidOH

    DavidOH Member For 2 Years

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    Thought that might be the case.
     
  17. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    Also.. how bad does ambient temperature affect the coil? Built a .31 ohm coil that is now showing as .32 in wattage mode? Did the coil change resistance or is it maybe because it's just so hot where I am.. around 95 degrees F

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  18. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Ambient temp and pressure will affect all builds and atties... some more than others. If your built to a safe ohm you will have plenty of room for those fluctuations.. There's a lot of calculating going on in that box... it's going to result in rounding errors.... I don't worry about small changes 2-3 hundreths or less on cold readout.... my mod has live meter and a cold (averaged?) Meter. The live meter is all over the place. The other move only with big changes.

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  19. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Use will also cause a coil to rise in ohm a bit.......

    I just reset my cold ohm for tc periodically... I can manually enter ohm on mod or set it via the meter. Sometimes it just needs a nudge to get thing working.


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  20. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Doubt unwrapping anything but a single core single wrap basic clapton would help though.

    Multi wire builds are more prone to hot spotting because they are more prone to internal shorting.... so the dry burn... a plying voltage let you see those shorts.. and adjust the wire.. to get the volts flowi b g down the wire instead of through the wire.. basically pulsing and warming the wire causes a bunch of science stuff to happen...I'm too stupid to explain... gets things going smoothly.

    It works... the bright red glow you see on vids. Is not required... it not as bright as it looks and it also for show and brighter than it needs to be. You only need enough heat to see the brighter vs dark areas from end to end of the coil....
    It should light up from the center and light all but maybe the first wrap or 2. If the leggs light up adjust coil and tighten screws till they dont.



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  21. joeyboy

    joeyboy Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Is that why my SS coils look rusty and ugly? I heat them too high when installing?
     
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  22. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    So my new coil has gone bad after just 3 days. I made sure I was careful pulsing it. Cleaned it once when I changed cotton. Now it goes to temp protect fast. On wattage mode I get a slightly dry hit or burned cotton taste which is quite bad.

    Bad quality wire perhaps?

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  23. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    Well... I just removed the cotton. It had a bad hot loop in the middle. Cotton was burned in places. Tried cleaning the coil by pulsing lightly and dipping it in water. Looks like it's firing evenly again.

    Are spaced coils really like this? Never had a problem with week old contact coils.

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  24. fq06

    fq06 Gold Contributor Member For 4 Years

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    Kind of sounds like you need a dna expert, spaced coils in TC shouldn't have hot spots. Ive used ss coils without pulsing at all without issues so at this point I'm not so sure it's your coil.

    Too much wick can give you dry hits... but not if TC is working properly. Then it just gives you a weak hit.

    Hopefully now that the coil is burning evenly you are past your issues, if not, hit up one of the DNA threads if someone doesn't help in this thread.
     
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  25. Johnnytraveler

    Johnnytraveler Gold Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    Generally no. Spaced coils are less prone to hot spots since the wires are not touching. When you strum your coils, try to strum all sides.

    How did it vape before the coil developed a hot spot
     
  26. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    It vapes wonderful at first. .31 ohms 450 F with 100w pre heat then 50 w. After a tank (3 ml) or two .. ohms tends to stay at .33 or .34 unless I leave it for a long time. At times I just switch to 50 w on wattage mode since it goes to temp protect pretty fast on TC. If I leave it for an hour it seems to do TC fine again for a little bit.

    After a day of that.. no matter what I do it just goes to temp protect so fast that TC is pretty much low wattage that almost no vapor is produced... Then all of a sudden vapor! With a burned taste then temp protect right away. From there.. wattage mode seems to work again for a bit but towards the end of the draw there's an obvious burning. I inspected the coil after that once I got home from work... Hotspot in the middle.. burned cotton.

    Cleaned the coil and it's burning even. Worked in TC again but after 10 minutes of vaping I feel like the problem is going back.

    Bad wire? Bad juice that gunk's up the coil fast? Juice isn't that sweet.. just a mild flan custard. Maybe it due to the fact that it's so hot and humid here.. high 80s to mid 90s and humid as hell.

    Build is 8 loops 2.5mm 24 guage 304 SS. Using the steam engine CSV on a therion 166.

    Would it help to build higher? Say same 8 loops but with 26 guage which I also have? Maybe TC would work better with higher ohms since it won't hit temp protect right away even when the coil reads a bit higher due to the hot weather.

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  27. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    That's not a hot spot in the wire... that's a hot spot in the wick......

    burnt wick are caused first by too much or too little in the coil second by hot spots in wire.....

    If the coil glows evenly it's not hot spotting... if it's bothering you.. it less than 50 cents worth of wire make a new coil and start over. Maybe all the fussing has damaged the wire.

    But I think you issue is your wicking not the coil. Unless its too tight an id..... could try 3mm and 1 maybe 2 less wrap. Target same ohm but bigger ID allows more juice into the coil.... 450 is enough to scorch cotton if dry. Coils heat from center out.. this means they dry wicks from center out.

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    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  28. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    But if I fire it while blowing on the coil (with the RDTA cap off) the middle coil loop glows red! That's how I verified it was a hotspot.

    My previous build had a left of center loop glowing red.. and that build was what made me open this thread. And rebuild again while carefully pulsing the coil before hand.

    Did the juice gunk cause that?

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  29. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    What is juice? 3 days is good wick life for me. 3 to 5 being about average. I'm lucky to get 2 days.... my coils on the other hand are as old as 1 year.

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  30. HondaDavidson

    HondaDavidson Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Ahh that sounds like a bad wire or too tight a loop... since its a spaced coil wicked with cotton. The only way to get a tight lop is too much wick..

    The result will be burnt away wick in that area. Hence the glowing loop. Or the metal in that area is bad...
    but you are having this issue with more than this one build right? Or am I miss understanding.






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  31. antikryst

    antikryst New Member

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    Just a mildly sweet flan custard. I'm not in the US so it's a local juice. Didn't even try the sweeter stuff that I have on TC yet.

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  32. Foggz

    Foggz Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    As I mentioned earlier the DNA is can be touchy at first with SS in TC and as fq06 mentioned .. as did I .. check out the DNA threads for some info regarding SS and Setup configuration. DNA's are awesome ... but not necessarily a 'plug n play' type mod ..
     
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