Feel free to hate me... [discussion/rant]

[Rayne]

Okay, I just need to start this thread of by getting a few things out of the way. First off, I've been a huge supporter of vaping since before the damned Gamucci was released; in fact, I remember watching commercials for it, online, during classes in high school, where they had smokers trying it out (back when it was still a concept ecig). Also, the oldest receipt I have for an ecig is back in 2008, but that's for the third e-cig I ever bought. So yeah, I've been into this shit for a long time. I should also mention that I have a part-time job selling this stuff. I am not here to bash vaping, by any means.

Now, there's something that's been royally pissing me off since the inception of this product into the US market... Vaping, as far as we know, and scientifically speaking, is not necessarily a healthier alternative to smoking. On the contrary, many scientists, doctors, and health experts, will conclude that vaping is likely a healthier choice for smokers. What's getting me so annoyed is the amount of people using anecdotal evidence as "proof" of being safer, combined with evidence of relative safety that has been vaguely taken out of context from various studies of other applications. There have been no conclusive studies performed that are actually leading us believe that this is truly a healthier alternative to tobacco. End of story.

The attitude that surrounds this product (and, unfortunately, the entire culture) is nothing more than an all out sales pitch, whether the consumers realise it or not. When I go to the vapour shop I work at, and I listen to the sales pitch given by just about any of my coworkers, it's literally the exact same thing that just about any pro-vaper says; and, quite frankly, it's almost all based on anecdotal evidence. As a sceptic, a responsible employee, and as a consumer, this bugs the hell out of me. Vapour shop employees have a HUGE responsibility to the public, and nearly every single shop I've gone to tosses that responsibility out the window. The fact is, most vapers seem to blissfully ignore the fact that we don't even know what the actual health benefits are from vaping, if there are any. And no, anecdotal evidence is not as relevant as many purport it to be (scientifically and statistically speaking).

Look guys, I have dedicated a lot of money into vaping over the years. My first device was the DSE 901... which I'm betting most of you haven't the faintest idea of what it originally looked like. I've seen this industry grow into what it is today, and it's depressing. Does it mean I think we should stop vaping? Well, I'm writing this while using my Sigelei 150, and a Doge v2 with a sub .2 ohm build... So, I don't think that's remotely what I'm saying. What I am driving at is the fact that so many people are trying to convince others, and themselves, that this is safe, or has been proven to be safer than cigarettes. THIS IS FALSE. In fact, any statement outside of the "we don't know" kind should technically be considered false. The majority of statements surrounding the "safety" of vaping are based on many fallible arguments; arguments that originally were used as a reason for getting people to start looking at this scientifically.... and now it's used as speculative "proof". While no one ever says those words, that is exactly what is being implied; and it's disgusting.

Take this little rant however you guys want. I figured I'd post it, and share my side of this story. I've been lobbying for more research on these products for many years, and I've seen the same words go from a plea for more research change into a pro-vaping stance (based on safety). Is there anyone else who's been thinking about this stuff the same way as me? I'm sure there is.

But, c'est la vie. Figured I'd stir up the shit a little here, and see what happened.

 

[CrazyVpr]

So , why don't you smoke cigarettes? I'm confused.

 

[Whiskey]

LOL....since we are on the subject.....

 

[UncleRJ]

Welcome to the Underground!

And if you think you are going to be warned or banned for voicing your opinions, boy are you in the wrong place

As for myself, well I am sticking to my belief that vaping is better for you than smoking but not as good as fresh clean air.

And that seems to be supported by my breathing, my sense of smell and my sense of taste.

Vaping is also much quieter.

As I can no longer hear my wife bitching at me for smoking!

 

[dubya314]

I dont think I care if it's safer. It's deeeeelicious! !!!! I didn't switch for my health, i guess I hope it is, but I switched because I was tired of smelling like a bag of shit. Period

 

[Zamazam]

Vaping is an alternative to smoking, better for you? Jury's out on that. Is it safer? Yep, It is, but not without hazards.

I used a DSE901 for a while. Been vaping since late 2010. At this point I can run up 5 flights of stairs with out hacking a lung up and I can actually taste my food. That's what matter to me.

 

[pulsevape]

great article 100% agrre with you...but by antedotal proof it seems pretty cler vaping is healthier...and the reason alot of Ex-heavy smokers turned to it is to get us off cigs,and that alone is worth it,getting off vaping is easier.

 

[vaperature]

It's safer than smoking cigarettes. I don't need no stinkin' studies to tell me the obvious.

 

[Rayne]

So , why don't you smoke cigarettes? I'm confused.

To be honest, I use both. I smoke when I go to a coffee shop, or when I'm working outdoors. I vape pretty much every other time, unless my batteries are all dead (rare, except for when I don't pack enough stuff to bring to a party). I'm probably about a 80:20 ratio for vaping/smoking, truth be told. Hey, sometimes I just can't get over the nostalgia of lighting up some cigs while reading a good book, or producing at a public place (haven't done that for a while though). It was a regular thing I did for years, and the taste brings it all back for me. I will admit, though, that cigarette consumption has gone down massively... so I can thank vaping for helping me get my nicotine fix, and for spoiling the taste of tobacco quicker.

Welcome to the Underground!

And if you think you are going to be warned or banned for voicing your opinions, boy are you in the wrong place

As for myself, well I am sticking to my belief that vaping is better for you than smoking but not as good as fresh clean air.

And that seems to be supported by my breathing, my sense of smell and my sense of taste.

Vaping is also much quieter.

As I can no longer hear my wife bitching at me for smoking!

I'm not worried about being banned lmao. Just braced for the fanboys of vaping to start talking shit

And yeah, it's nice that ecig products are much more socially accepted now. Also nice that many people who made the switch feel much healthier. Still doesn't quench my scepticism, though.

I dont think I care if it's safer. It's deeeeelicious! !!!! I didn't switch for my health, i guess I hope it is, but I switched because I was tired of smelling like a bag of shit. Period

I actually didn't mind smelling like smoke. I kind of enjoyed the smell... I have since I was a kid. Then again, I'm weird lol. I mainly switched because of the fact that it was a theoretically safer alternative (naive, because I tried to make the switch when I was about 17 or 18), and also because flavoured tobacco was getting squashed in the US. Plus, the flavours were hard to turn down. I remember one of the best juices I ever bought was a PERFECT Coca Cola juice. That kind of had me sold.

Vaping is an alternative to smoking, better for you? Jury's out on that. Is it safer? Yep, It is, but not without hazards.

I used a DSE901 for a while. Been vaping since late 2010. At this point I can run up 5 flights of stairs with out hacking a lung up and I can actually taste my food. That's what matter to me.

I still can't say it's safer. It appears to be, based on what we know, but I haven't seen the proof of it.I guess the term "safe" seems to be relative, based on the context I've seen it in.

great article 100% agrre with you...but by antedotal proof it seems pretty cler vaping is healthier...and the reason alot of Ex-heavy smokers turned to it is to get us off cigs,and that alone is worth it,getting off vaping is easier.

Thanks, mate. I mean, sure, the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming... but that still isn't really proof of anything. Let's be honest here, how many people claim to have seen a UFO? While this isn't remotely the same thing, it's still anecdotal; and that's the point. People can twist that comparison, but the fact remains: there's no substantial evidence/proof that we can point to, and we know what is actually going on. Vaping is still very young, and that's mainly because of how recent it blossomed. Not to mention, the amount of varying materials being used, and the questionable recipes in liquids (namely flavourings).

I like hearing that people are feeling healthier, but it shouldn't be seen as evidence that it's a factually safer/healthier alternative. For example, there are some people who swear by apricot seeds for fighting cancer. The ACS reports that less than 10 cases (out of more than 100,000 cases) have shown it to be beneficial to cancer patients; yet there's a huge natural remedy following based on a handful of anecdotal reports about how it "fights cancer." Another strange one is I've seen anecdotal reports of people who have HIV, and claim they feel remarkably better when off their HIV medication.

All I'm getting at is that there needs to be more hard evidence before we all start following this sales-pitch-based claim that vaping is better than smoking. While the outcome may be beneficial in one aspect, the potential for worse in other industries may be severe.

 

[Kent B Marshall]

As a former smoker I've had huge gains in my health, taste and smell. Considering I vape or I would smoke, I know this is better for me. Scientific studies are not needed to confirm this for myself as my health has greatly improved. I stopped smoking and vape, yet, no scientific study can proof this.

 

[Rayne]

Also, I know I haven't said that anyone seem to be taking all of the hype and anecdotal evidence as 'factual', but I guess I've been implying that. I'll clear that up...

Basically, it's a social implication that kind of states "if so many people have a good experience, it must be safe!" That's what I'm driving at, for those who didn't see it. Think of the herd mentality... that's kind of what I'm saying, in a nutshell.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Well, I'll never ever say vaping is safe. It is in fact safer, maybe not in the terms you're thinking of but let me ask you how many people have burned to death due to falling asleep with there vaporizer??
Long term health effects are still to be determined.
But, even if we factor in the injury resulting from battery failure, vaping has significantly lower injuries over accidental fires and the like caused by analogs. It's not exactly the safe/safer argument you were making, but it's what we do know...

There's more than just health benefits to make the switch to vaping....

 

[M5amhan]

there have been studies done proving less toxicity and chemical content.. the combustion is the major health hazard that is eliminated in vaping, no studies need to be done to prove that. neither do studies need to be done to prove that we arent taking in the thousands of chemicals put in by big tobacco. this is obvious stuff, and no one is going to fund million dollar studies to tell us what anyone with half a brain can figure out.

do you need government studies? because that isnt going to happen until the market is in big tobacco hands. im not defending the practices of vape shops because i know how they do things and i dont agree either. but waiting for mainstream studies to be funded by big tobacco or big pharma to prove that vaping is a healthier alternative and a more effective way to quit smoking is waiting for massive corporations to act against their own incentives. they have common sense and they know what the results of the studies would be, otherwise they would have already funded plenty of them. and they are the only people that can afford it, so we go with what we have. common sense and what your body tells you

 

[Teresa P]

Vaping is safer than eating a cheeseburger every day. Vaping is safer than drinking a six-pack of beer every day. Vaping is safer than smoking two packs+ of cigarettes every day. Vaping is safer than ***** or m*th. Vaping is safer than abusing prescription medication. Vaping is also safer than taking a long walk on a short pier, which is what the government can do with their "studies," which are half-assed until they can find a way to cash in on it and double or even triple the price of our enjoyment of it.
I don't trust their studies. I do, however, trust my own body and it feels BETTER than it has since I started vaping last year. The studies will all go their way as long as it's cheaper to print signs that say "NO VAPING ALLOWED" or until receipts on all vape related products read some sort of outrageous tax at the bottom. That's america. If it pleases you, there must be more tax.

 

[M5amhan]

here is a study funded by big tobacco that found vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking cigarettes - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273230014002505

they learned their lesson and probably wont take it any farther than this until FDA gives them the industry

 

[Kent B Marshall]

here is a study funded by big tobacco that found vaping is a healthier alternative to smoking cigarettes - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273230014002505

they learned their lesson and probably wont take it any farther than this until FDA gives them the industry

IMO, They conducted this in preparation for lawsuits like this one http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/04/28/top-download.htm

 

[Whiskey]

 

[M5amhan]

IMO, They conducted this in preparation for lawsuits like this one http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/04/28/top-download.htm

lol well whatever the case it works out in our favor and is scientific proof that the OP said didnt exist

 

[Rayne]

Curly- I see where you're coming from, and that's another thing altogether. One could also argue that ecigs/vaping devices are potentially more dangerous, though, if the user isn't properly educated on how to use their ecig. It's kind of like the whole cell phone thing, in a way. Cell phones pose a major fire hazard, but they may not cause a lot of harm, or casualties. That doesn't mean we don't consider them relatively "safe," though. It's a whole different side of the topic, but another good one to debate.

M5amhan and Teresa- I'm not waiting on government studies. Honestly, I have little regard for government studies. I'm waiting for conclusive evidence, in both long term and short term studies, that points to over health. Sure, we can extrapolate the obvious, but that doesn't mean that there are other things that we're unaware of happening in our bodies.

To give you guys a prime example of what I'm talking about: there was a study done on people who used primarily artificial sweeteners (v. those who didn't substitute), and concluded that the bacteria in the gut of the consumers was significantly different in the consumers. What they took from the study was that artificial sweeteners might cause this change, but more research needed to be conducted to develop a proper conclusion. Mind you, this was a study performed within the last year, and these products have been around for well over a decade... and are still classified as a relatively safe product for consumption, based on previous peer reviewed research.

For right now, most of the studies, as well as conclusions derived from studies, are based on a certain principle: the lack of known carcinogens, and combustion, makes this a safer alternative. What we don't know? How much consumption of vapour is actually safe, before it has a negative impact on your health? What about vaporising the flavourings, and the actual health aspects involved? What will happen to the lungs of vapers over the course of 5-10 years, or more? What about the other risks, that are entirely unknown, because of a lack of regulation over this product? The list goes on.

And yes, we can bitch and moan about regulations, taxes, and all of that. That sits beside the actual point though. Until this stuff is properly regulated, and we know all of the risks involved with our products (from gas station ecigs to RDA/RTA devices), I'd say it's naive to come to any real conclusion about this stuff. Again, we can always extrapolate, but it seems like nobody wants to go that extra mile for proof.

Then again, I'm a sceptic. I'll keep on chucking clouds, unless science shows me it's worse than tobacco. That doesn't mean I'm not still curious about what I'm inhaling, and what might be down the road for me.

 

[Whiskey]

 

[Rayne]

Another great question I have comes from the people who rebuild. To prevent certain health risks, should we be wearing gloves when wicking, and storing our cotton in sterilised bags? What about the bottles we use to hold juice? Should be be 100% certain they're sterile, and be extremely careful about what the tips come into contact with? What about germs? Sure, in theory, the heat can pretty much sterilise everything before we inhale... But what temperature do we need to reach before that happens, and how can we be sure? The vicious cycle of questions does not end lol.

It bothers me that all of this goes unasked by most, and these products get purported as "safe" or "safer than tobacco" without any comprehensive research performed. It seems to be just a one-track method, in order to prove something, and then it stops.

 

[Kent B Marshall]

 

[Whiskey]

Ok last one.....LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zaroba]

Another great question I have comes from the people who rebuild. To prevent certain health risks, should we be wearing gloves when wicking, and storing our cotton in sterilised bags? What about the bottles we use to hold juice? Should be be 100% certain they're sterile, and be extremely careful about what the tips come into contact with? What about germs? Sure, in theory, the heat can pretty much sterilise everything before we inhale... But what temperature do we need to reach before that happens, and how can we be sure? The vicious cycle of questions does not end lol.

By that standard, nothing in your kitchen is sterile due to germs in the air and bugs/rodents that may visit and would pose just as much a risk to your health.

 

[M5amhan]

For right now, most of the studies, as well as conclusions derived from studies, are based on a certain principle: the lack of known carcinogens, and combustion, makes this a safer alternative. What we don't know? How much consumption of vapour is actually safe, before it has a negative impact on your health? What about vaporising the flavourings, and the actual health aspects involved? What will happen to the lungs of vapers over the course of 5-10 years, or more? What about the other risks, that are entirely unknown, because of a lack of regulation over this product? The list goes on.

And yes, we can bitch and moan about regulations, taxes, and all of that. That sits beside the actual point though. Until this stuff is properly regulated, and we know all of the risks involved with our products (from gas station ecigs to RDA/RTA devices), I'd say it's naive to come to any real conclusion about this stuff. Again, we can always extrapolate, but it seems like nobody wants to go that extra mile for proof.

first off im not sure how "properly" restricting the free market is going to lead to us knowing all the risks involved with ecigs. unless you meant once the fda hands the industry to big tobacco so they can conduct studies that benefit them, then yea that makes sense

secondly that extra mile is very expensive, if you can gather the funds to make this happen then please start a campaign. and if the demand is there to know every single risk involved with vaping, then there you have your resources to make it happen. but really no one cares. they care about what their body tells them and what they feel comfortable with. if you are for shutting down small business across the country so you can consolidate the power into big tobacco and have all your questions answered then theres no reason for you to be here discussing this with us because you are going to use government power to get your way anyway

 

[Teresa P]

This is boring....let's talk about GMO's and Monsanto!

 

[Whiskey]

By that standard, nothing in your kitchen is sterile due to germs in the air and bugs/rodents that may visit and would pose just as much a risk to your health.

Ok I lied.............

 

[Rayne]

This is exactly the response I was expecting.

I know the masses don't care. But there are many people who do. And, for legal purposes, it should be duly noted that many people are making unsubstantiated claims without giving a damn. I'm just surprised that such a large amount of dedicated vapers are on the "do not care" side. And feel free to take my last post out of context, that isn't something I need to explain. I'm simply making observations, and asking questions that nobody puts emphasis on.

Looks like my job here is done. I stirred up the shit enough. It's just sad watching something I've supported for nearly a decade fall into a bunch of pseudo-scientific propaganda, and the people are eagerly jumping into it. Nobody wants answers here... My work is done.

 

[Hottvapz]

Bottom line is IDC. I enjoy vaping I am off the stinkys. If it is good for me YAY! If its bad for me oh well. It boils down to my freedom of choice that is being ripped away from. My body my choice. I have insurance so no one else will foot my medical bills. Proof no proof means nothing to me I just enjoy vaping.

 

[M5amhan]

This is exactly the response I was expecting.

I know the masses don't care. But there are many people who do. And, for legal purposes, it should be duly noted that many people are making unsubstantiated claims without giving a damn. I'm just surprised that such a large amount of dedicated vapers are on the "do not care" side. And feel free to take my last post out of context, that isn't something I need to explain. I'm simply making observations, and asking questions that nobody puts emphasis on.

Looks like my job here is done. I stirred up the shit enough. It's just sad watching something I've supported for nearly a decade fall into a bunch of pseudo-scientific propaganda, and the people are eagerly jumping into it. Nobody wants answers here... My work is done.

exactly my point, now you just wait for the government to come to the rescue. unsubstantiated claims are not a reason to shut down a free market, its a reason to make your case and expose what you need to

 

[zaroba]

...
PG has been used in medical inhalers for decades with no negative effects found
Nicotine has been inhaled via cigs for decades and been consumed for hundreds of years via other nicotine containing plants (such as tomatoes)
Studies have shown that nicotine by itself is hardly addictive, hence why people don't become addicted to nicotine gum nor nicotine patches, and this has been tested by scientists with 6 month and longer studies with non-smokers using the stuff daily.
Studies have shown that adding MAO Inhibitors along with nicotine has resulted in addiction to nicotine, and cigs contain MAO Inhibitors.


To ask those questions about sanitary vape gear but not worry about those same issues in other areas of life is purely hypocritical and makes it look like you are nit picking and *trying* to find something bad about vaping. That is just the way it looks to me anyway.

 

[UncleRJ]

One other thing.

We all know that smoking takes years off of your life.

How many years does your spouse bitching at you about smoking take off of your life due to increased stress issues?

We need a study on that NOW

 

[Hottvapz]

One other thing.

We all know that smoking takes years off of your life.

How many years does your spouse bitching at you about smoking take off of your life due to increased stress issues?

We need a study on that NOW

Yes not hearing my wife bitch at me anymore has giving me at least 10 more years to my life. Funny thing is she owns a scented candle company same shit she uses to make her stuff smell good I use for flavor....if I knew that years ago my life would of been longer lol

 

[zaroba]

and just for the sake of it

Studies have shown that inhaling formaldehyde vapor does not increase the levels present in the bloodstream because it gets metabolized as soon as it comes into contact with your saliva and the lining of your lungs. It is actually a chemical that your body produces to aid in the digestion of fruits and vegetables. It is widely used in the manufacturing of clothing, plastic and furniture and these items leech formaldehyde into the air. Studies have shown that nearly all formaldehyde related cancer cases occurred in people who worked with industrial quantities of formaldehyde daily over long periods of time (years).

 

[dubya314]

Vaping is safer than eating a cheeseburger every day. Vaping is safer than drinking a six-pack of beer every day. Vaping is safer than smoking two packs+ of cigarettes every day. Vaping is safer than ***** or ****. Vaping is safer than abusing prescription medication. Vaping is also safer than taking a long walk on a short pier, which is what the government can do with their "studies," which are half-assed until they can find a way to cash in on it and double or even triple the price of our enjoyment of it.
I don't trust their studies. I do, however, trust my own body and it feels BETTER than it has since I started vaping last year. The studies will all go their way as long as it's cheaper to print signs that say "NO VAPING ALLOWED" or until receipts on all vape related products read some sort of outrageous tax at the bottom. That's america. If it pleases you, there must be more tax.

Hey, I eat multiple cheese burgers every day, and drink WAY more than a 6 pack every day, you doggin me????

 

[Smoky Blue]

Ok last one.....LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coffee?? I want some!!

but i get what @Rayne is saying.. and honestly.. who hasnt thought of this..
we dont know what 20-40-60 yrs down the road may bring.. until then.. Vape on!

 

[Teresa P]

Hey, I eat multiple cheese burgers every day, and drink WAY more than a 6 pack every day, you doggin me????

No, but it certainly decreases the likelihood that vaping will kill you.

 

[Teresa P]

If I wanted an abortion, a million advocates would scream "My body, my choice," but you click the button on a mod and you're killing the world....

 

[RobbieR]

Welcome to the Underground!

And if you think you are going to be warned or banned for voicing your opinions, boy are you in the wrong place

As for myself, well I am sticking to my belief that vaping is better for you than smoking but not as good as fresh clean air.

And that seems to be supported by my breathing, my sense of smell and my sense of taste.

Vaping is also much quieter.

As I can no longer hear my wife bitching at me for smoking!

X2 especially the wife part!

I don't think vaping is particularly good for me, but I am in the camp that believes it's better than smoking cigarettes.

 

[Giraut]

Ok, so vaping may turn me into a horribly disfigured, cancerous three-headed monster within a year. But you're missing the point. The point is :

- When I smoke, I cough, I feel like shit, I smell bad, I can't breathe when I cycle and I give too much money to the fucking state.

- When I vape, I don't cough, I don't smell bad, I feed good, I go faster when I cycle and I don't give any money to the fucking state.

So, if vaping turns me into a horribly disfigured, cancerous three-headed monster, at least I'll be healthier and richer when it happens (and happy to give the fucking state the finger, to boot).

 

[dubya314]

No, but it certainly decreases the likelihood that vaping will kill you.

No, but it certainly decreases the likelihood that vaping will kill you.

well, if im gonna go, don't know what could be better

 

[Teresa P]

well, if im gonna go, don't know what could be better
View attachment 19913

Cool mug....

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Curly- I see where you're coming from, and that's another thing altogether. One could also argue that ecigs/vaping devices are potentially more dangerous, though, if the user isn't properly educated on how to use their ecig. It's kind of like the whole cell phone thing, in a way. Cell phones pose a major fire hazard, but they may not cause a lot of harm, or casualties. That doesn't mean we don't consider them relatively "safe," though. It's a whole different side of the topic, but another good one to debate.

M5amhan and Teresa- I'm not waiting on government studies. Honestly, I have little regard for government studies. I'm waiting for conclusive evidence, in both long term and short term studies, that points to over health. Sure, we can extrapolate the obvious, but that doesn't mean that there are other things that we're unaware of happening in our bodies.

To give you guys a prime example of what I'm talking about: there was a study done on people who used primarily artificial sweeteners (v. those who didn't substitute), and concluded that the bacteria in the gut of the consumers was significantly different in the consumers. What they took from the study was that artificial sweeteners might cause this change, but more research needed to be conducted to develop a proper conclusion. Mind you, this was a study performed within the last year, and these products have been around for well over a decade... and are still classified as a relatively safe product for consumption, based on previous peer reviewed research.

For right now, most of the studies, as well as conclusions derived from studies, are based on a certain principle: the lack of known carcinogens, and combustion, makes this a safer alternative. What we don't know? How much consumption of vapour is actually safe, before it has a negative impact on your health? What about vaporising the flavourings, and the actual health aspects involved? What will happen to the lungs of vapers over the course of 5-10 years, or more? What about the other risks, that are entirely unknown, because of a lack of regulation over this product? The list goes on.

And yes, we can bitch and moan about regulations, taxes, and all of that. That sits beside the actual point though. Until this stuff is properly regulated, and we know all of the risks involved with our products (from gas station ecigs to RDA/RTA devices), I'd say it's naive to come to any real conclusion about this stuff. Again, we can always extrapolate, but it seems like nobody wants to go that extra mile for proof.

Then again, I'm a sceptic. I'll keep on chucking clouds, unless science shows me it's worse than tobacco. That doesn't mean I'm not still curious about what I'm inhaling, and what might be down the road for me.

I will not and never have said a vaporizer is "safe". Only safer.
As far as the cell phone thing, it's safe to say that that is a lithium battery safety concern in general, reaching to other things like r/c vehicles as well.
Right now we don't know the long term health affects vaping has. I wouldn't recommend vaping to a non smoker. It's all about risk/harm reduction. There's also things like the smell that is a reason to vape. You may like the smell but "non-smoker Nancy" finds it offensive. And I'm referring to the smell left on you, smoking and vaping should be done with respect, No one should be blowing clouds in others faces or in public places that someone may find offensive, like the grocery store...


All this said, I vape now because I enjoy it. It's not risk reduction any longer as much as it is a hobby. I enjoy DIY, building coils, tasting flavors, blowing clouds, etc. If it was risk reduction I would have no need for the plethora or devices I own or 100w, period. I am a low nicotine user, 3mg, and can go without, I have, I choose not to. So to conclude, if I were using vaping to quit my nicotine habit, I'd say it could have done that, very well. Then I could have sold my gear and vaping would have been without a doubt safer than smoking because it could ween me off nicotine and I wouldn't inhale anything but the air around me. But as an adult, knowing the risks of inhaling anything is harmful (and if you don't, you probably aren't very concerned with your health anyway) I chose to continue to vape,knowing it's not safe.

 

[Rayne]

...
PG has been used in medical inhalers for decades with no negative effects found
Nicotine has been inhaled via cigs for decades and been consumed for hundreds of years via other nicotine containing plants (such as tomatoes)
Studies have shown that nicotine by itself is hardly addictive, hence why people don't become addicted to nicotine gum nor nicotine patches, and this has been tested by scientists with 6 month and longer studies with non-smokers using the stuff daily.
Studies have shown that adding MAO Inhibitors along with nicotine has resulted in addiction to nicotine, and cigs contain MAO Inhibitors.


To ask those questions about sanitary vape gear but not worry about those same issues in other areas of life is purely hypocritical and makes it look like you are nit picking and *trying* to find something bad about vaping. That is just the way it looks to me anyway.

Actually, I'm asking questions that are valid. I'm not trying to find something bad with the vaping; I'm just asking a question that holds merit. These are also questions I've seen asked in news articles, and by scientists and doctors, that have yet to be answered. The fact that people are deftly trying to get vaping classified as something that is "safer" or "relatively safe" seems to be naive to me.

It's so interesting, and funny, that people swiftly ignore valid questions, and will quickly believe whatever they wish to believe... and look for whatever they can to support what they believe. You make some good points, but overall the answers to the questions I've asked aren't in what you've said.

Initially, this post was created to instil thought, and possibly bring up some answers. I guess I was naive in my own right, thinking that might happen? I digress...

 

[Rayne]

All this said, I vape now because I enjoy it. It's not risk reduction any longer as much as it is a hobby. I enjoy DIY, building coils, tasting flavors, blowing clouds, etc. If it was risk reduction I would have no need for the plethora or devices I own or 100w, period. I am a low nicotine user, 3mg, and can go without, I have, I choose not to. So to conclude, if I were using vaping to quit my nicotine habit, I'd say it could have done that, very well. Then I could have sold my gear and vaping would have been without a doubt safer than smoking because it could ween me off nicotine and I wouldn't inhale anything but the air around me. But as an adult, knowing the risks of inhaling anything is harmful (and if you don't, you probably aren't very concerned with your health anyway) I chose to continue to vape,knowing it's not safe.

Exactly my attitude with why I've been vaping this last go around. I picked it up again late last year, mostly to save money; but now it's just a hobby... a VERY expensive hobby.

I'm more or less indifferent to what the health risks are; it won't change whether or not I vape. Do I think there needs to be a lot of clarification on the health risks involved? Absolutely.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Another great question I have comes from the people who rebuild. To prevent certain health risks, should we be wearing gloves when wicking, and storing our cotton in sterilised bags? What about the bottles we use to hold juice? Should be be 100% certain they're sterile, and be extremely careful about what the tips come into contact with? What about germs? Sure, in theory, the heat can pretty much sterilise everything before we inhale... But what temperature do we need to reach before that happens, and how can we be sure? The vicious cycle of questions does not end lol.

It bothers me that all of this goes unasked by most, and these products get purported as "safe" or "safer than tobacco" without any comprehensive research performed. It seems to be just a one-track method, in order to prove something, and then it stops.

As pBusardo would say, I didn't sterilize my cigarettes before I smoked them

 

[Hottvapz]

Bottom line is still IDC. You ask valid questions I agree. But I am a skydiving instructor I know the risk of jumping out of plane but I still do it several times a day why cause I enjoy it. I know that it is possible that one day my parachute may fail does that stop me nope. So I know all I need to know at this point and I'm content.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

Exactly my attitude with why I've been vaping this last go around. I picked it up again late last year, mostly to save money; but now it's just a hobby... a VERY expensive hobby.

I'm more or less indifferent to what the health risks are; it won't change whether or not I vape. Do I think there needs to be a lot of clarification on the health risks involved? Absolutely.

Vaping could very well be a means to an end for some though.... And not inhaling anything if safer than.... We're adults, idk about others but most purchases I make a researched... I wouldn't blindly buy a car, computer or phone, and vaping is no different, it's the consumers job as well to be informed, we can't expect your gas station attendants to be in the know about vaping. That said, vape shop employees shouldn't spread misinformation either...

 

[zaroba]

yes, those questions about sanitary equipment are valid.
But the point still stands, unless you apply that same concern to other areas of life, it is being hypocritical.

You could sterilize the hell out of your RDA stuff, keep it sitting in pure alcohol, use a UV sterilizer for it, only handle it with medical gloves, etc.
But, what is the point if your put it down on your counter and make a sandwich with mayonnaise that is already half emptied and been opened to the pathogen filled air a dozen times, use a knife from your utensil drawer that has dust in it, use presliced deli meat or cheese that has been come into contact with air frequented by possibly dozens of customers, put it on a plate that hasn't been sterilized with a UV light or alcohol prior to being used, then eaten in your living room where pets and other people could be introducing germs etc?
Unless your house could be certified a laboratory grade clean room, you are still introducing those germs and other pathogens into your body with or without sterile vaping equipment, and that is why we have immune systems.

There is no point in locking your car doors if you leave the windows down.

 

[CurlyxCracker]

yes, those questions about sanitary equipment are valid.
But the point still stands, unless you apply that same concern to other areas of life, it is being hypocritical.

You could sterilize the hell out of your RDA stuff, keep it sitting in pure alcohol, use a UV sterilizer for it, only handle it with medical gloves, etc.
But, what is the point if your put it down on your counter and make a sandwich with mayonnaise that is already half emptied and been opened to the pathogen filled air a dozen times, use a knife from your utensil drawer that has dust in it, use presliced deli meat or cheese that has been come into contact with air frequented by possibly dozens of customers, put it on a plate that hasn't been sterilized with a UV light or alcohol prior to being used, then eaten in your living room where pets and other people could be introducing germs etc?
Unless your house could be certified a laboratory grade clean room, you are still introducing those germs and other pathogens into your body with or without sterile vaping equipment, and that is why we have immune systems.

There is no point in locking your car doors if you leave the windows down.

This.
I remember a thread about the Rebel juice company. While I do find a shirtless hairy man mixing juice concerning, juice making doesn't need be more sanitary than a restaurant