Become a Patron!

Dragon (?)

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
OK so here is my first attempt at something a little exotic
Dragon
4 strand 30g 316L hammered flat, 2.5 mm 9 wrap coils @ 2.9 ohms total resistance in a Tsunami
(VERY open to criticism and critique)
Pics suck and I think I have too much cotton but it vapes well but not tons of flavor (not bad, just not tons)

IMG_20170319_075816451a.jpg IMG_20170319_075948754a.jpg IMG_20170319_080836718a.jpg IMG_20170319_080851550a.jpg
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Looks good -- question for you though. Why do you have the coils angled instead of full horizontal on that atty? I run my coils in that atty with the coils mid-level and horizontal and get great flavor out of it. And yes, it appears that you have WAY to much cotton. Let the cotton come out of each side of the coil and sit in the bottom of the juice deck. The airflow chimney's will keep the juice contained in the bottom of the atty when you drip or squonk it.

IMG_20170319_114931564 (Large).jpg
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Looks good -- question for you though. Why do you have the coils angled instead of full horizontal on that atty? I run my coils in that atty with the coils mid-level and horizontal and get great flavor out of it.

Honestly, that is what I saw in the few YouTube vid's I watched. I typically run my coils horizontally when I build on this deck (hell, all my decks at this point in newbie building career :)

And yes, it appears that you have WAY to much cotton. Let the cotton come out of each side of the coil and sit in the bottom of the juice deck. The airflow chimney's will keep the juice contained in the bottom of the atty when you drip or squonk it.

The more I vape on it, the more I realize that I need to reduce the cotton amount SIGNIFICANTLY! I was thinking more cotton would allow more juice but I think that there is a point of diminishing effect and I have exceeded that :(
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
The stack of cotton (arrow pointing to it) is going to block airflow and drastically mute the flavor. That cotton is directly in the drip-tip airflow channel and all you will taste is cotton.

All the fault of me "following directions". Not an excuse but rather a starting point It was never explained in the vids as to why, I assumed that it was all about gravity and retaining juice at the upper ends of the coils. I get a ton of vapor (more so then when I lay these same coils horizontal). While not trying to chase clouds per say, I am trying to find a happy balance between full vapor volume and full flavor.
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
more cotton would allow more juice
There is a very fine line balance of cotton to coil. With the right amount of cotton, it will wick up the juice from the base of the atty to the coil without an issue. The airflow across the coils is what is going to produce the flavor, and the amount of cotton IN the coils and wicking to the coils will keep it from dry hitting or burning.

In my picture, I am running a single (currently) Alien coil at .15Ω (3mm ID) and hitting it at about 75W. The wicking keeps up on my squonker or while dripping. I used a 15mm wide cotton strip and fluffed out the ends of the cotton before tucking them down the side of the atty.
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
All the fault of me "following directions". Not an excuse but rather a starting point It was never explained in the vids as to why, I assumed that it was all about gravity and retaining juice at the upper ends of the coils. I get a ton of vapor (more so then when I lay these same coils horizontal). While not trying to chase clouds per say, I am trying to find a happy balance between full vapor volume and full flavor.
Not a fault -- a learning adventure. :D

Don't take what I'm saying as a criticism or telling you that you did something bad. I'm just pointing out the areas that are going to affect your vape. Trying to help you get a better vape out of that atty. :)
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
There is a very fine line balance of cotton to coil. With the right amount of cotton, it will wick up the juice from the base of the atty to the coil without an issue. The airflow across the coils is what is going to produce the flavor, and the amount of cotton IN the coils and wicking to the coils will keep it from dry hitting or burning.

In my picture, I am running a single (currently) Alien coil at .15Ω (3mm ID) and hitting it at about 75W. The wicking keeps up on my squonker or while dripping. I used a 15mm wide cotton strip and fluffed out the ends of the cotton before tucking them down the side of the atty.

I have found that the wicking part of builds is so damn critical. I still struggle at times to "find" the right amount to use. I'm trying to stick to 2.5 mm coils to learn the art of wicking. It's funny, in nothing I've read or watched has the art of wicking ever been stressed. It always just gets a cursory mention.
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
In my experience (limited as it is), the larger the ID of the coil, the better flavor and vapor production you get. I love 3mm and 3.5mm ID coils in that atty.
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Not a fault -- a learning adventure. :D

Don't take what I'm saying as a criticism or telling you that you did something bad. I'm just pointing out the areas that are going to affect your vape. Trying to help you get a better vape out of that atty. :)
Comments from experienced builders are always welcomed. How does one learn if one is not willing to listen to the voices of experience.
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
What kind of cotton are you using? Cotton Bacon, Cotton Pads, Rayon ??
Are you dripping or squonking the atty ?
What kind of MOD are you running it on ?
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
Comments from experienced builders are always welcomed. How does one learn if one is not willing to listen to the voices of experience.

I take copious notes on all my builds so I am amassing quite a bit of usable data and as I gain experience, I think that bigger builds will happen quite organically. I have wasted many hours building coils that in my mind work only to hit the sides of atty's. Good thing I don't work in a nuke plant :)
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
What kind of cotton are you using? Cotton Bacon, Cotton Pads, Rayon ??
Are you dripping or squonking the atty ?
What kind of MOD are you running it on ?
Cotton Bacon V2
Dripping (still awaiting my first squonk box, a Drone)
Lavabox M (my HexOhm is out for repair)
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
4 strand 30g 316L hammered flat, 2.5 mm 9 wrap coils @ 2.9 ohms total resistance
So, in Wire Wizard (http://www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz.asp), I'm trying to figure out how you are getting 2.9Ω on that build.

Based on my calculations, a single coil will come out to approx .348Ω and with dual coils, that would come in at approx .174Ω total resistance.

Edit -- invalid images removed from thread to remove the confusion of my inability to look @ the details of the coils :D
 
Last edited:

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
So, in Wire Wizard (http://www.steam-engine.org/wirewiz.asp), I'm trying to figure out how you are getting 2.9Ω on that build.

Based on my calculations, a single coil will come out to approx .348Ω and with dual coils, that would come in at approx .174Ω total resistance.

They are not parallel, they are twisted. 4 strand and then hammered flat (think bone yard coil). To be honest, I've never gotten SteamEngine to match what my final builds turn out to be. I've gone to using that page as a close starting point but then things always seem to come in about .1 ohm different. I also tend to use the Heat Capacity rating a lot.
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
They are not parallel, they are twisted. 4 strand and then hammered flat (think bone yard coil). To be honest, I've never gotten SteamEngine to match what my final builds turn out to be. I've gone to using that page as a close starting point but then things always seem to come in about .1 ohm different. I also tend to use the Heat Capacity rating a lot.
Good catch --- thank you. I didn't look close enough.

Yes, steam engine is nothing more then a "guide" to get the approx idea of what it will turn out to be. There are way too many other variables that are going to affect the actual resistance once it is all built and done.

For thread sake, here is the updated steam-engine view.
.461Ω /2 = .23Ω approx

upload_2017-3-19_12-23-42.pngupload_2017-3-19_12-23-51.png
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Here are some coil / wicking builds that I've done on my Tsunami and they have turned out awesome flavor / vapor production.


 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
In short --- your coils are awesome, you did good on them. The only thing "I" would change is to go to to a 3mm or 3.5mm ID coil instead of a 2.5mm ID coil. I would then change my wicking style to get a better vapor / flavor production... I am a flavor chaser however. I think you would have an easier time with the wicking technique/art by moving up the ID of your coils.
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
In short --- your coils are awesome, you did good on them. The only thing "I" would change is to go to to a 3mm or 3.5mm ID coil instead of a 2.5mm ID coil. I would then change my wicking style to get a better vapor / flavor production... I am a flavor chaser however. I think you would have an easier time with the wicking technique/art by moving up the ID of your coils.

Thank you so much for the thoughts and guidance. That's what I come to this board for... to learn. I will pound out some wire later and bump up the diameter and see what happens. I too am a flavor chaser but find myself looking for full dense vapor to go with that. I picked up a Charm II and retired it within a day because I just couldn't get the volume of vapor that was satisfying. Hopefully as my coil building skills improve, I'll be able to find a good working coil for it. With my HexOhm out for repair, I'm limited in my wattage.
Thank you for the compliment.
 

PhantomOp

VU Donator
Gold Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
The equation has kinda fallen into this method, for me and what I have found.

The larger ID the coil, the more surface area on the cotton. The ## of wraps on a smaller ID hasn't provided a dense vapor for me.
Obviously the large ID with more wraps gives more surface area though.

3mm > 3.5mm has been my "sweet spot" for both flavor and vapor production.

Clapton, Fused Clapton, and Alien coils have been my "go to" for flavor production while still holding great vapor production. I can fog out a room in no time with any of those coils.

Wicking is an art. That art changes constantly by atty and coil. You have to find what combination works best for each component.

My "go to" build (or "All Day Vape") is the Fused Clapton SS316L with a 3mm ID using Cotton Labo pad fluffed up (kinda like a Scottish Roll). This seems to provide me the best of both worlds with outstanding flavor.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I do have some memory problems, but did you call this a Dragon coil due to the 'Dragon coil' build from Rip trippers? I think that was what it was called, and if I remember it was a nano coil, with one end pointing upwards like yours are as a kind of exhaust, and the cotton wrapped around the coil and under, kind of like a tail?

If so, I can see what you was doing here :). The only thing is those nano dragon coils are great, but were more suited to the style of vaping a few years ago, and the small coil and extra wick worked well. Now as mentioned it will block the airflow, so would be better horizontal with enough wick just to touch the deck.

It is all about experimenting though with building and finding what you like- and you could well find something really good, and not used by many by experimenting with existing builds and adding your own twist to them.
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I do have some memory problems, but did you call this a Dragon coil due to the 'Dragon coil' build from Rip trippers? I think that was what it was called, and if I remember it was a nano coil, with one end pointing upwards like yours are as a kind of exhaust, and the cotton wrapped around the coil and under, kind of like a tail?

If so, I can see what you was doing here :). The only thing is those nano dragon coils are great, but were more suited to the style of vaping a few years ago, and the small coil and extra wick worked well. Now as mentioned it will block the airflow, so would be better horizontal with enough wick just to touch the deck.

It is all about experimenting though with building and finding what you like- and you could well find something really good, and not used by many by experimenting with existing builds and adding your own twist to them.

I was trying to add my own twist on things. I took a couple different ideas from three different vids on the basic coil. Tried to apply what I know I liked along with something new to try. Pretty decent first attempt and great responses to help guide me down the path less traveled. The primary reason for 2.5's is wicking. I find I get a little over zealous when I start getting in the 3.0's and above.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
OK -- Me being snarky here --- so take it as that.

Rip Trippers --- What a F*CKING IDIOT / JOKE. Nothing but a "player" ... (and I can't stand his f*cking voice) :eek:

I agree with you here, can't deny that lol! I did learn a lot of builds from his youtube channel when I was learning though, I can't deny that either. A lot of them were strange ones that I wouldn't use again, but there were a few that were good.

Shame he completely sold himself out though, the bellend
 

ralph029

Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
I agree with you here, can't deny that lol! I did learn a lot of builds from his youtube channel when I was learning though, I can't deny that either. A lot of them were strange ones that I wouldn't use again, but there were a few that were good.

Shame he completely sold himself out though, the bellend

I'm not a fan either BUT... Making money doesn't suck. Considering the shit he reviews nowadays, his channel seems much more geared towards the novice. I think that most newbies need the entertainment (purely subjective word there) value to get through the drudgery (for some) of facts.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'm not a fan either BUT... Making money doesn't suck. Considering the shit he reviews nowadays, his channel seems much more geared towards the novice. I think that most newbies need the entertainment (purely subjective word there) value to get through the drudgery (for some) of facts.

For sure, making money definitely doesn't suck! I think it was the way he went about it that upset people really- if he had said this is an advertisement for the drink, I doubt anyone would of cared at all, it was just the way it magically got rid of his dry knuckles etc was a bit ridiculous lol.

I haven't actually watched his, or anyones reviews fully in quite some time. I DID learn a lot from him though, and he does act a bit zany, but as you say for newer vapers this could well provide some form of entertainment while watching the videos.
 

VU Sponsors

Top