Do flavors go bad?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid - General Discussion' started by Bryan92081, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    I made a batch of HIC's improved Malibu clone, and it was great stuff when it was fresh. I had some sitting for a while and it tastes horrible now. At first I thought that the lime flavor had overpowered everything else and I didn't think much more about it. Tonight I opened the FA Pineapple and it doesn't smell like pineapple at all now. It's hard to explain, but it smells soured or maybe rancid would be a better word. It smells exactly like the Malibu clone that I made tastes.
     
  2. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I've always heard they have a shelf life of 1-2 years? I can tell you that my FA Pineapple smells awful, but it vapes just fine.
     
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  3. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    Hmmm. I've not had the Fa pineapple flavoring very long, of course I have no idea how long it was shelf'd before I got it though. When I first made the Malibu it tasted like pineapple though. Now it taste nothing like pineapple. I think I'll trash it to be on the safe side and get another bottle.
     
  4. nightshard

    nightshard It's VG/PG not PG/VG VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I'm buying directly from FA, cutting the middle man shelf time.
     
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  5. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    I just got some 4oz bottles from flavor west and they have a born on date on the bottle. Says to use within a year of manufacture date.
     
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  6. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Some 4 oz bottles, lol. That's a lot of flavor no matter how you look at it. That oughta last ya.
     
  7. Michigan

    Michigan New Member

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    One of the places I get my flavors from had something on there site said about 3 months if I remember right
     
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  8. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    Lol, well it turns out that HIC's Kringle's Curse clone is one of my favorites and I plan in keeping it in rotation pretty regular. I figured I may as well buy a huge bottle. Can't be running outta that one. Plus it was pretty cheap for 4oz's.
     
  9. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    Oh I also got a big bottle of FW hazelnut just cause I was having trouble finding it elsewhere.
     
  10. Michigan

    Michigan New Member

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    At capella unsweeten is good for 9-12 months and the water soluble or sweeten will be good for 6-8 months. Hope this helps you out
     
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  11. Michigan

    Michigan New Member

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    Here is what TFA told me:
    THE FLAVOR APPRENTICE
    SHELF LIFE FLAVOR INFORMATION
    Concentrated flavors do not spoil, or go rancid, like fruit juices can.
    But under certain conditions they can change.
    In other words, you will notice that a "fresh" bottle might seem different from an older bottle.
    Basically, what my flavor manufacturer tells me is that the flavors have a shelf life of at least three to six months and often much longer, when they are not continuously opened and are stored in glass. It is not necessary to store them in the refrigerator, but I don't think that this would hurt them. But sometimes refrigeration can cause re-crystallization of flavors that have a lot of the crystals like ethyl maltol in them.
    Here's some background.
    Every concentrated flavor is a mixture of raw materials, and every flavor blend can act differently. For example flavors that have a vanilla characteristic are going to have slightly different storage capabilities than fruit flavors. Here's the reason.
    Vanilla and caramel flavors are mostly made of large molecules like vanillin, ethyl vanillin , etc.
    These molecules are not very volatile, and tend not to escape the bottle when you open it. They will be fairly stable. Fruit flavors, on the other hand, are made of much smaller molecules in general. Whenever you open a bottle, it's the lightest and smallest molecules that escape and reach your nose quickly. Over time when you open a bottle over and over again more and more proportion of these lighter molecules leave the bottle and eventually the character of the flavor will be changed. This doesn't mean the flavors spoiled, it's just different. So this is one piece of advice, if you are going to store a flavor for a long period of time, transfer the flavor to smaller bottles that will you will not have to open over and over again.
    also, when a flavor is warm, like if it's a hot day, when you open the bottle even more of the volatile molecules will escape, much more will escape than if the flavor was cool. This is true for all liquids, when liquids are heated the molecules are much more easily converted to their gaseous state. So in general it is a good idea to keep the flavor cool though I don't think refrigeration is necessary.
    Also, in general, it is best not to store these flavors long-term in plastic.
    Hope this helps you out
     
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  12. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I only have the FA Hazelnut, about 6mls of it and I think it's a good one. You must really like the FW one! Hard to pass up a good deal, too.
     
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  13. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I know I've heard this about plastic before, though I have never transferred any of mine to glass. I've had the majority of mine at least a year and they seem to be ok in flavor and scent, still. I wonder if the majority of DIYers transfer to glass. It's an interesting post you made @Michigan.
     
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  14. Huckleberried

    Huckleberried Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator VU Donator Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Are you in the states? I was wondering about shipping charges.
     
  15. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    A few months ago, I noticed many discrepancies on the subject, so I started looking into it. The fda recommends companies post a 1-2 year shelf life date, even if a product will last longer (including medication). When tests were conducted, most products were still good years after the experation date (not that I'm implying anyone should use 10 year old Tylenol).

    Here's what I found:

    If you keep the lids on tightly and the bottles in a cool, dark place, they should last 2 years to indefinitely. After awhile, they will lose flavor, but they don't go bad.

    Extracts: Do not refrigerate or freeze. It actually speeds up the natural separation of the flavor from the liquid base (pg/alcohol/etc).

    Oils: These can and should be refrigerated. Bacteria seems to grow on oils in room-temperature air. However, they should not be stored in a freezer.

    To extend extract life: Keep in cool, dark places away from heat, moisture, and sunlight. Avoid places near the stove, dishwasher, fridge, or even shelves near windows.
     
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  16. Michigan

    Michigan New Member

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    Thanks for the info on this I'll have to keep this in mind for the future Rocketpuppy. I am new to the DIY e-juice i can use all the help I can get
     
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  17. AmandaD

    AmandaD Platinum Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Hey, I've used 10-year old Tylenol - and it still works (sort of ) LOL

    But I have a year-old 4 ounce bottle of TFA RY4D that smells suspiciously of plastic...
     
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  18. BigNasty

    BigNasty Diamond Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I know my fa coco has been tossed.. both bottles have a level of gunky goo in them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
  19. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    I actually got the big bottle of hazelnut cause I needed it in a fruit loops recipe and all my regular suppliers were out of small bottles. I thought it was a pretty good price also, around 6 bucks I think. I can't find the packing slip for the exact price though.
     
  20. Bryan92081

    Bryan92081 Bronze Contributor

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    Thanks for the info, I appreciate the it!
     
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  21. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    I'm not new, but I'll still take all the help I can get =)
     
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  22. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    I'm leaning towards buying 2-3 dram vials in bulk and converting my plastic to glass as I receive for other reasons, this is good support
     
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  23. Laughmore

    Laughmore Bronze Contributor

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    I've already posted this in several indirectly-related threads... I've purchased vials now in bulk to store all my flavors, but this is the post that catalyzed my decision.

    About 25% of my flavor inventory is more than 2 years old and they all smell slightly suspect, the worst are 3 yr old fruit flavors in larger bottles - they're not as distinct as they used to be, and tpa banana is more like bubble gum. To protect my investment, I'm going all glass for anything that might not get used in a few months. If I get to pop a factory seal on a FA bottle it's a different story and doesn't feel as urgent.

    Joining VU rejuvenated my general mixing curiosity, and now I'm bummed my old flavors (that are kinda forgotten) will be hard to judge if I should reorder or how they mix with FA stuff that's new to me. The thought they might still be ok if I had started with glass made buying vials the other day a no-brainer for me. But if glass increases shelf life, wouldn't original packaging (like FA) be glass instead of PET? i really dunno. Maybe years is beyond the average, but for me it's possible if I buy something weird in bulk on discount or something.
     
  24. VelvetA

    VelvetA Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Thanks for this! I've usually made all my juice in glass bottles and the glass vials are the main reason I like buying from WL. But now I'm going to transfer ALL my flavors into glass as well. I bought a gross of 2 dram vials with droppers and a couple hundred more glass bottles (10,15 and 30mL) I've already transferred the larger sizes into 2 or 4oz glass.

    Question: when they reference "oils", are they talking about what we refer to as oils and avoid? Or does that mean flavors like lemon, lime, orange, etc..? Because I store all my flavors and supplies (except nic) in the basement in a closet so it's dark and cool but I could put the citrus in the fridge if need be
     
  25. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    Can you post a link or more info on which one you're referencing?
     
  26. VelvetA

    VelvetA Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Mostly FA and IW citrus flavors - as in, would FA Lime cold-pressed or IW Lemon Mix be considered oils for those storage suggestions?
     
  27. RocketPuppy

    RocketPuppy Gold Contributor

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    Oh geez @VelvetA I am so sorry. I didn't see this. Neither of the ones you mentioned contain oils, so no need for the fridge.
     
  28. Dixie1954

    Dixie1954 Bronze Contributor Member For 3 Years ECF Refugee

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    I just love the phrase *keep in a cool place* OMG it gets way too hot in my place for 6 months out of a year. I was told it is no biggie and I can put them into the fridge. I just need to remove from fridge and let flavor return to room temp - then shake like crazy before using is all :rolleyes:;)
     
  29. Judah18

    Judah18 New Member

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    just curious to know. i know you guys were talking about refrigeration but on another note. i spoke to a flavor extract company about temperatures control. they told me that molecules escape in certain temps that will lower the potency of the taste and smell. they said the ideal temp is 20 below room (around 50-55 degrees) what do you think about keeping liquid chilled (not refrigerated) but chilled?
     
  30. Heabob

    Heabob Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I think that's why most of them say, "keep in a cool dark place", as a general rule of thumb for many things.
     
  31. EasyGoing1

    EasyGoing1 New Member

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    I have some Flavor Art Banana Cream that I've had for a few months and it's about half as flavor full as it was when I bought it. Then my buddy left some e-juice out in the sun for a day, and it lost most of its flavor. I'm thinking that this stuff simply hates light... time to start keeping it in the dark and see how it holds up.
     
  32. wllmc

    wllmc Yes there are typo's and no I do not care :) VU Donator Gold Contributor Member For 3 Years VU Challenge Team ECF Refugee Vape Media

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    funny this pops up. I found yesterday a bottle of TFA graham cracker clear from wizard labs that has to be 3 or 4 years old. had to try it out. smelled good, looked good, tased good, vaped good.... is there any science behind it ? nope just what happened yesterday lol
     
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  33. brandon555

    brandon555 Member For 1 Year

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    I just got back into DIY last year (actually I never left but all I did was use Hangsen tobaccos for a long time, lol) and found a 10ml bottle of FA Caramel in my kitchen cupboard that was purchased sometime in 2010 or early 2011 at the latest. Compared to a brand new bottle it has mellowed out a bit, but it still tastes great and I've used it in a few recipes recently.
     
  34. Rin Vapes

    Rin Vapes Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    Fa Pineapple smells like dirty socks to me... but it always has. I don't care for that one.
    As far as how long flavors last, as you can see above, it varies. I keep using mine until I get an off smell or flavor or it looks strange. So far that's only happened with maybe 2 flavors, one of which I just pitched a couple weeks ago. I had the thing since I first started DIYing several years ago. It just smelled off and I figured it was about time to pitch it.
     
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  35. X1ak3

    X1ak3 New Member

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    I always keep my pg based flavors in the refrigerator, and my vg base and flavors in the freezer, vg doesn't freeze, just gets thick, I let everything get to room temp b4 I use it, I haven't had to throw anything away since I started keeping my supplies cold!
     
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  36. Ishkabibble

    Ishkabibble Gotta eat the lettuce VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I've noticed strawberry and citrus flavorings go the quickest. I usually keep those a year max before I replace them but usually end up using them all up before then.
     
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  37. rchmx

    rchmx VU Donator Silver Contributor Member For 3 Years

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    I just finished a longish project of moving all my concentrated flavorings into glass bottles:

    Workstation1.jpg

    I run a small vape business in central Mexico, which justified the time and expense it took to put all this together, but I'm hoping it extends to shelf life of my flavorings. Even false peace of mind has its place. lol
     
  38. MagicJosh

    MagicJosh Silver Contributor Member For 2 Years

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    I keep all my flavors in a sealed container. Yes they go bad. Thats why you shouldn't buy huge bottles of each flavor. Stay at 15 -30 ml's at a time.
     
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