Coil wire help

[chrisswearingen4]

Been wanting to try building more than single wire coils. As of now I have 26ga kanthal A1, nichrome 26g, ni200 26g, SS316L 26g, kanthal A1 28gx3 twisted, 28g kanthal A1, and kanthal A1 28g+32g clapton. The twisted and clapton are premade. All round wire. I would like to know what other wire I would need so I could try the more exotic builds like I've been seeing on the post your build forum here on VU. Also, this is a noon question but is the ribbon wire the same as flat wire. Any wire lists would be much appreciated.

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[PoppaVic]

Ribbon == Flat - watch for the thickness and width. Some will sell another flat they may call "bar" that is as thick as 3 layers of typical ribbon.

For claptoning the consensus appears to be at least 36awg outside, and others venture into 38 & 40awg.. (I tried it with 40awg, and I almost need some sorta' magnifier specs to see a damned thing).

 

[chrisswearingen4]

Ribbon == Flat - watch for the thickness and width. Some will sell another flat they may call "bar" that is as thick as 3 layers of typical ribbon.

For claptoning the consensus appears to be at least 36awg outside, and others venture into 38 & 40awg.. (I tried it with 40awg, and I almost need some sorta' magnifier specs to see a damned thing).

Thx PoppaVic. Wasn't for sure about the ribbon/flat wire. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Much appreciated.

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[PoppaVic]

np. As far as HOWTO - there are folks here vastly more capable and able. They'll find you.

 

[gbalkam]

Ribbon == Flat - watch for the thickness and width. Some will sell another flat they may call "bar" that is as thick as 3 layers of typical ribbon.

For claptoning the consensus appears to be at least 36awg outside, and others venture into 38 & 40awg.. (I tried it with 40awg, and I almost need some sorta' magnifier specs to see a damned thing).

I use 32 ga SS for wraps, due to eyesight and learning curve. I find this easier to wrap with from a beginner standpoint, as it is a lot more forgiving. So anything 32ga or higher that you are comfortable with. Your Ni wire is pretty much useless unless building a single core. Ti, Ni, SS are low resistance wires, so they transfer both electricity and heat very quickly. Heat is caused by resistance, so Kanthal and NiChrome are better as core wires, both having much higher resistance (and therefore needing less power) to allow heat generation. (same reason the wiring in your house doesn't heat up and catch fire... and why the elements on your stove are not make of SS or copper but pots and pans are.) Generally, SS, Ni and Ti are only used for tiny factory made coils to allow larger surface area within the coil head. (example.. 1 wrap of 32ga kanthal = aprox 4 wraps 32ga SS) *aprox*

agreed, the finer (higher ga) you wrap with, the better the coil will work, but everyone has to learn. Eventually you will be able to clapton a wire without looking at it so ga will not matter as much.

 

[chrisswearingen4]

I use 32 ga SS for wraps, due to eyesight and learning curve. I find this easier to wrap with from a beginner standpoint, as it is a lot more forgiving. So anything 32ga or higher that you are comfortable with. Your Ni wire is pretty much useless unless building a single core. Ti, Ni, SS are low resistance wires, so they transfer both electricity and heat very quickly. Heat is caused by resistance, so Kanthal and NiChrome are better as core wires, both having much higher resistance (and therefore needing less power) to allow heat generation. (same reason the wiring in your house doesn't heat up and catch fire... and why the elements on your stove are not make of SS or copper but pots and pans are.) Generally, SS, Ni and Ti are only used for tiny factory made coils to allow larger surface area within the coil head. (example.. 1 wrap of 32ga kanthal = aprox 4 wraps 32ga SS) *aprox*

agreed, the finer (higher ga) you wrap with, the better the coil will work, but everyone has to learn. Eventually you will be able to clapton a wire without looking at it so ga will not matter as much.

Thx gbalkam. Good to know about the ni wire. I'll get higher gauges tomorrow, so far I've only been building single wire coils. Getting ready to try my hand at more advanced coils for flavor chasing. Really appreciate the advice.

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[gbalkam]

Thx gbalkam. Good to know about the ni wire. I'll get higher gauges tomorrow, so far I've only been building single wire coils. Getting ready to try my hand at more advanced coils for flavor chasing. Really appreciate the advice.

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Ni would also be fine for something like kanger toptank mini rba (single coil) where space is fairly limited.

 

[Synphul]

What wire type you use may come down to flavor preference. Some don't notice much difference, the kanthal coils I just made up the other day are bleh. I prefer stainless, both for flavor and for versatility for wattage or temp control since it works in either. Not saying kanthal's junk, don't use it or anything, but your personal experience may vary so it's worth trying out different wire types. You may notice a difference in flavor. Steam engine is a good site with various calculators that would help. When it comes to things like fused claptons or aliens they're essentially parallel coils so that's how I treat them on the coil wrapping calculator. The wrap wire is so thin it shouldn't affect resistance much if at all.

I somewhat disagree with gbalkam about kanthal being better or higher resistance being better. There's more variables when it comes to coils. On a regulated mod resistance doesn't matter much so long as it's within the range of the mod (ie not so high or low it can't fire). Wire mass comes into the picture. How long the pieces of wire are that make up a coil, a single round wire wrapped 12x vs 3 core wires in a triple core fused clapton which are shorter pieces run parallel will generally heat up faster.

Stainless may come out at a lower resistance but using thinner gauges vs kanthal reduces wire mass which means it will ramp up faster and achieve similar heat with less wattage. Two builds I have right now, both dual coil. Kanthal 22ga 10 wraps, 3mm id comes out around .3 and took 95w to get it producing decent heat and flavor (and I generally prefer cooler to moderately warm vapes). The other is 3x28 ss316 / 38ga ni80 fused claptons, 6 wraps and 2.5mm id comes out around .1 to .11 ohms. In wattage I get a similar vape in terms of heat from running 60-65w vs the kanthal. 1/3 the resistance and yet uses only 2/3 the wattage of kanthal since the kanthal in the other build is thicker wire and more wraps.

If running 26ga stainless I usually stick to 2 cores, 28ga ss316 2-3 cores for fused claptons. I don't care for the flavor of thicker wrap wire like 32ga, it just kills ramp up time and holds the heat forever cooking the juice. Just my experience. 38ga isn't the easiest to see for me either, I use pair of led lighted magnifiers sold on ebay for like $10-12 or something. Similar to these, you may want to look around ebay.

For holding the cores flat doing fused claptons the best luck I've had is using flat square legos, the kind with 4 pegs on them (2x2). Also got those off ebay for a few dollars. Slide the cores between the two sets of pegs and squeeze two of them together over the wire so they're locked. Helps keep the cores from collapsing especially when doing 3 or more cores.

Not all places have higher gauge wire in either stainless or ni80 for wrap wire, coil society and lightning vapes both seem to have a pretty good selection of sizes. Swivels and a drill help make fused claptons a lot easier. Be sure to get ball bearing fishing swivels, they work a bit better and are less prone to wearing out and seizing. I use #3 size coastlocks that seem to work fine, 3 in a row as redundancy in case one does bind the cores don't twist all up.

 

[BC67]

can some one tell me where I can buy spools of wire that are already made{Clapton. Alien, twisted, etc.}
without having to buy them one at a time or wait for two or three months for them?

 

[chrisswearingen4]

What wire type you use may come down to flavor preference. Some don't notice much difference, the kanthal coils I just made up the other day are bleh. I prefer stainless, both for flavor and for versatility for wattage or temp control since it works in either. Not saying kanthal's junk, don't use it or anything, but your personal experience may vary so it's worth trying out different wire types. You may notice a difference in flavor. Steam engine is a good site with various calculators that would help. When it comes to things like fused claptons or aliens they're essentially parallel coils so that's how I treat them on the coil wrapping calculator. The wrap wire is so thin it shouldn't affect resistance much if at all.

I somewhat disagree with gbalkam about kanthal being better or higher resistance being better. There's more variables when it comes to coils. On a regulated mod resistance doesn't matter much so long as it's within the range of the mod (ie not so high or low it can't fire). Wire mass comes into the picture. How long the pieces of wire are that make up a coil, a single round wire wrapped 12x vs 3 core wires in a triple core fused clapton which are shorter pieces run parallel will generally heat up faster.

Stainless may come out at a lower resistance but using thinner gauges vs kanthal reduces wire mass which means it will ramp up faster and achieve similar heat with less wattage. Two builds I have right now, both dual coil. Kanthal 22ga 10 wraps, 3mm id comes out around .3 and took 95w to get it producing decent heat and flavor (and I generally prefer cooler to moderately warm vapes). The other is 3x28 ss316 / 38ga ni80 fused claptons, 6 wraps and 2.5mm id comes out around .1 to .11 ohms. In wattage I get a similar vape in terms of heat from running 60-65w vs the kanthal. 1/3 the resistance and yet uses only 2/3 the wattage of kanthal since the kanthal in the other build is thicker wire and more wraps.

If running 26ga stainless I usually stick to 2 cores, 28ga ss316 2-3 cores for fused claptons. I don't care for the flavor of thicker wrap wire like 32ga, it just kills ramp up time and holds the heat forever cooking the juice. Just my experience. 38ga isn't the easiest to see for me either, I use pair of led lighted magnifiers sold on ebay for like $10-12 or something. Similar to these, you may want to look around ebay.

For holding the cores flat doing fused claptons the best luck I've had is using flat square legos, the kind with 4 pegs on them (2x2). Also got those off ebay for a few dollars. Slide the cores between the two sets of pegs and squeeze two of them together over the wire so they're locked. Helps keep the cores from collapsing especially when doing 3 or more cores.

Not all places have higher gauge wire in either stainless or ni80 for wrap wire, coil society and lightning vapes both seem to have a pretty good selection of sizes. Swivels and a drill help make fused claptons a lot easier. Be sure to get ball bearing fishing swivels, they work a bit better and are less prone to wearing out and seizing. I use #3 size coastlocks that seem to work fine, 3 in a row as redundancy in case one does bind the cores don't twist all up.

Thx Synphul for the info. I'll try the SS wire out, been mostly using kantha for my builds so far. Mostly single wire coils. I'll have to try out the legos as well to hold the cores. I'll definitely need some a magnifier for the thinner gauges. Sights not as good as it was, getting old lol. Greatly appreciate the advice.

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[chrisswearingen4]

can some one tell me where I can buy spools of wire that are already made{Clapton. Alien, twisted, etc.}
without having to buy them one at a time or wait for two or three months for them?

Don't know where to get the aliens, but I got a box set that has kantal, SS, ni, twisted, and claptons from my vapor store for $16.00

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[BC67]

Don't know where to get the aliens, but I got a box set that has kantal, SS, ni, twisted, and claptons from my vapor store for $16.00

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[BC67]

Great, so who is your vapor store, website I can use to order from them???

 

[chrisswearingen4]

Great, so who is your vapor store, website I can use to order from them???

That's the name of the website.
Myvaporstore.com

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[gbalkam]

What wire type you use may come down to flavor preference. Some don't notice much difference, the kanthal coils I just made up the other day are bleh. I prefer stainless, both for flavor and for versatility for wattage or temp control since it works in either. Not saying kanthal's junk, don't use it or anything, but your personal experience may vary so it's worth trying out different wire types. You may notice a difference in flavor. Steam engine is a good site with various calculators that would help. When it comes to things like fused claptons or aliens they're essentially parallel coils so that's how I treat them on the coil wrapping calculator. The wrap wire is so thin it shouldn't affect resistance much if at all.

I somewhat disagree with gbalkam about kanthal being better or higher resistance being better. There's more variables when it comes to coils. On a regulated mod resistance doesn't matter much so long as it's within the range of the mod (ie not so high or low it can't fire). Wire mass comes into the picture. How long the pieces of wire are that make up a coil, a single round wire wrapped 12x vs 3 core wires in a triple core fused clapton which are shorter pieces run parallel will generally heat up faster.

Stainless may come out at a lower resistance but using thinner gauges vs kanthal reduces wire mass which means it will ramp up faster and achieve similar heat with less wattage. Two builds I have right now, both dual coil. Kanthal 22ga 10 wraps, 3mm id comes out around .3 and took 95w to get it producing decent heat and flavor (and I generally prefer cooler to moderately warm vapes). The other is 3x28 ss316 / 38ga ni80 fused claptons, 6 wraps and 2.5mm id comes out around .1 to .11 ohms. In wattage I get a similar vape in terms of heat from running 60-65w vs the kanthal. 1/3 the resistance and yet uses only 2/3 the wattage of kanthal since the kanthal in the other build is thicker wire and more wraps.

If running 26ga stainless I usually stick to 2 cores, 28ga ss316 2-3 cores for fused claptons. I don't care for the flavor of thicker wrap wire like 32ga, it just kills ramp up time and holds the heat forever cooking the juice. Just my experience. 38ga isn't the easiest to see for me either, I use pair of led lighted magnifiers sold on ebay for like $10-12 or something. Similar to these, you may want to look around ebay.

For holding the cores flat doing fused claptons the best luck I've had is using flat square legos, the kind with 4 pegs on them (2x2). Also got those off ebay for a few dollars. Slide the cores between the two sets of pegs and squeeze two of them together over the wire so they're locked. Helps keep the cores from collapsing especially when doing 3 or more cores.

Not all places have higher gauge wire in either stainless or ni80 for wrap wire, coil society and lightning vapes both seem to have a pretty good selection of sizes. Swivels and a drill help make fused claptons a lot easier. Be sure to get ball bearing fishing swivels, they work a bit better and are less prone to wearing out and seizing. I use #3 size coastlocks that seem to work fine, 3 in a row as redundancy in case one does bind the cores don't twist all up.

The choice between Kanthal or NiCr comes down more to deck space, power available and ramp up time.
Compare
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?p=roundmulti&r=0.3&hf=280&str=2&awg=26&id=2.25
vs
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?mat=n80&p=roundmulti&r=0.3&hf=280&str=2&awg=26&id=2.25
this is a clapton build I did from my brother for an RBA mini deck. Notice the NiCr is almost 2 wraps longer (+4 loops) than the kanthal ... 10 loops vs 14. It also uses 38W (kanthal) vs 50w (NiCr).
The main usage for NiCr vs Kanthal is if you have to meet a lower resistance. 6 wraps NiCr < 6 wraps Kanthal.
For clapton, you are correct, the wrap wire is negligible as far as resistance goes, so ignore it. Calculate the core wires only.
TC mode should ONLY be used with factory coils. Hand made coils, there is no need. Reason.. hand wrapped coils are larger so SS requires an enormous amount of power to heat, when you can get the same result using a kanthal core and SS wrap, since it is the wraps trapping the juice.

Stainless may come out at a lower resistance but using thinner gauges vs kanthal reduces wire mass

This also greatly reduces the amount of vapor. Since SS has such a low resistance, it takes much more power to heat and much longer ramp up time than a resistance wire, such as kanthal. SS is conductive.. conducts heat Kanthal is resistive.. generates heat. Kind like like hand brakes on a bike when the rims are wet or dry.. wet rim being ss and dry being kanthal.. the friction of the pads allow you to stop much faster with more resistance. (dry rim)

In practice... I can build a quad fused clapton kanthal build that runs at aprox the same wattage as a smaller dual SS build.. more coil.. more vapor. More wraps=better (more pronounced) flavor.

The best way is to try all different types of wire. Pick the one you like best. My post is through trial and error and wire theory. I primarily started out with cloud chasing builds then moved toward flavors.

 

[chrisswearingen4]

The choice between Kanthal or NiCr comes down more to deck space, power available and ramp up time.
Compare
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?p=roundmulti&r=0.3&hf=280&str=2&awg=26&id=2.25
vs
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?mat=n80&p=roundmulti&r=0.3&hf=280&str=2&awg=26&id=2.25
this is a clapton build I did from my brother for an RBA mini deck. Notice the NiCr is almost 2 wraps longer (+4 loops) than the kanthal ... 10 loops vs 14. It also uses 38W (kanthal) vs 50w (NiCr).
The main usage for NiCr vs Kanthal is if you have to meet a lower resistance. 6 wraps NiCr < 6 wraps Kanthal.
For clapton, you are correct, the wrap wire is negligible as far as resistance goes, so ignore it. Calculate the core wires only.
TC mode should ONLY be used with factory coils. Hand made coils, there is no need. Reason.. hand wrapped coils are larger so SS requires an enormous amount of power to heat, when you can get the same result using a kanthal core and SS wrap, since it is the wraps trapping the juice.



This also greatly reduces the amount of vapor. Since SS has such a low resistance, it takes much more power to heat and much longer ramp up time than a resistance wire, such as kanthal. SS is conductive.. conducts heat Kanthal is resistive.. generates heat. Kind like like hand brakes on a bike when the rims are wet or dry.. wet rim being ss and dry being kanthal.. the friction of the pads allow you to stop much faster with more resistance. (dry rim)

In practice... I can build a quad fused clapton kanthal build that runs at aprox the same wattage as a smaller dual SS build.. more coil.. more vapor. More wraps=better (more pronounced) flavor.

The best way is to try all different types of wire. Pick the one you like best. My post is through trial and error and wire theory. I primarily started out with cloud chasing builds then moved toward flavors.

Thank you. I myself prefer flavor chasing over cloud chasing. I'll try using kanthal as the core and SS as the wrap wire. Greatly appreciate the advice. Learning more everyday.

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[gbalkam]

Thank you. I myself prefer flavor chasing over cloud chasing. I'll try using kanthal as the core and SS as the wrap wire. Greatly appreciate the advice. Learning more everyday.

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Great. Learn as you go, a bit at a time. Single core clapton coils are easy to make, and give pretty good flavor. Much better than a regular coil. Fused clapton are better but harder to build the wire.

You might like http://vapingunderground.com/threads/how-to-build-you-first-basic-coil-for-new-vapers.298828/ a 4 part video series. If that idiot can build a coil.. a thumbless monkey could.

 

[gopher_byrd]

can some one tell me where I can buy spools of wire that are already made{Clapton. Alien, twisted, etc.}
without having to buy them one at a time or wait for two or three months for them?

https://www.advancedvapesupply.com/collections/spooled-ss-prebuilt-wire the only thing they don't have on spools is alien. AVS is a quality place and they have a rep here on VU @advancedvapesupply. They only supply SS316L wires so if that is a no go, forget I said anything... I do not have any affiliation with them except as a customer.

 

[advancedvapesupply]

.They only supply SS316L wires so if that is a no go, forget I said anything...

For now..... but SS will always be my personal favorite though, for both core and wrap.


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