Call to Arms

[Browncoat]

I would like for everyone to read this article from Spinfuel:

Vaping With Julia – The Agony of Clones

I'm in a battle with the author of this article in the comments section, and some backup would be appreciated. A vape magazine shouldn't be publishing misinformed crap like this IMHO.

 

[Robert B]

Would surprise me if the SvoeMesto wasn't made in China.

 

[Browncoat]

Wouldn't surprise me, either. Especially considering this.

The second half of our SvoëMesto shipment has just been cleared by Customs! Get the Kayfun V4 in-store or online tomorrow, Tuesday the 9th, at 11:00 am PST!

VapeRev is located in Cerritos, CA. In order for a product to clear customs and be in their retail store the next day, it would have to be the LA customs office. Which means the product most likely came from China. If these Kayfuns were really made in Germany, they would go through NYC customs, and there's no way they could go from NY to CA in one day.

 

[UncleRJ]

IMHO, Spiteful is nothing but a internet rag/tabloid.

Totally driven by the almighty dollar and their opinions and awards can be bought.

I will have nothing to do with them.

 

[OB61887]

I'd support you since what I did read I liked, but damn there are a lot of comments there. I'm pleading the tldr.

 

[Browncoat]

Bottom line, this is an anti-clone hit piece that is full of misinformation.

Being a photographer, I know a thing or two about copyright law. For what it's worth, the author of that article is also a photographer, so I'm kind of surprised that she's so far off the mark about it. But, like @UncleRJ said...it looks like they have vendors to support over there. Apparently their manifesto about sourcing articles for accuracy and supposed stance for "the truth" is just a bunch of ballyhoo.

They claim to be the "#1 source for vaping info on the net", and if that's the case, then they need some more competition.

 

[OB61887]

While I love clones and most of my everything is a clone, I do wish they would not 1:1 clone. I would prefer the company making the clone to use their logo instead of the original manufacturers.

 

[Robert B]

While I love clones and most of my everything is a clone, I do wish they would not 1:1 clone. I would prefer the company making the clone to use their logo instead of the original manufacturers.

I hear ya, I wish they wouldn't do it either, but these Chinese manufactures won't hesitate to dump your product on the market if you don't pay for the quantities that were requested. That happened to a guy I knew out in California with laser printer parts. He was competing with HP, got greedy and was only slightly undercutting HP's pricing. His product didn't sell as fast as he'd was counting on because of his pricing. The Chinese manufacturer made them too quickly for him, and he couldn't afford to take delivery of them all at once. Bingo, inventory sold off and the market was suddenly flooded with inexpensive HP compatible fusing units. 100 dollar parts for 10 bucks.

I really don't know if that's what is going on with SvoëMesto, But 1 week after the new and improved authentic hits the market for 180 bucks, the 1:1 so called clone hits the market for less than 20.00. 1 week to tool up and clone a complex machined set of parts like this? Don't know about you, but that sounds to me like the chinese manufacturer was making it for SvoëMesto. I could certainly be wrong though.

 

[Grumpy]

IMHO, Spiteful is nothing but a internet rag/tabloid.

Totally driven by the almighty dollar and their opinions and awards can be bought.

I will have nothing to do with them.

Right on the money. Spinfuel is one of the many rag magazines that recommend any product that advertises with them. Just check out their review of the Vaporfi Vox mod that P Busardo basically said was an overpriced clunker.

 

[Browncoat]

I really don't know if that's what is going on with SvoëMesto, But 1 week after the new and improved authentic hits the market for 180 bucks, the 1:1 so called clone hits the market for less than 20.00. 1 week to tool up and clone a complex machined set of parts like this? Don't know about you, but that sounds to me like the chinese manufacturer was making it for SvoëMesto. I could certainly be wrong though.

1 week lead time to obtain the authentic, take measurements, source materials, draw up specs, retool, mass produce, and be ready to ship? It doesn't sound fishy...it sounds impossible. 1 month would be pushing it, but 1 week? No, there are only two ways this could happen:

A) SvoëMesto shared its designs beforehand, which means they are in league with the cloners.
B) They are manufactured from the same source (China).

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

I like the mention of pride in owning an expensive authentic piece as a motivating factor. It's clear that she sees it as a status symbol, it disgusts her at the thought of someone asking if she had a clone or authentic. Kinda sad to buy an authentic so you can feel special, and display your status. How horrifying it would be to think she had a lowly cloned atty or device. Lame.

 

[freemind]

The author is an elitist. Her article is written from the JADED view of an elitist. Case closed.

For her it's not about "integrity" or copyright. It's about having something "premium" or limited. Period. She defends her stance and likes, by bashing something she looks down her nose at, from pure emotional standpoints.

 

[Chowder]

Why even argue the point? Buy a clone, or don't buy a clone. It's your individual choice. And, I personally, don't give a flying fuck what somebody else thinks about my personal purchases. I own some authentics and some clones. I am very happy with them all. As long as they keep helping me stay away from chewing or smoking, I don't give 2 knuggets of a shit where they come from, or what somebody else thinks of my equipment. In all reallity, it's what you can afford and your personal preferences that dictates clone or authentic purchases. If somebody wants to look down on my personal purchase/choice (or even cares enough to notice), then they can pony up the money to buy me an authentic. Otherwise, they can go jump in a lake.

 

[UncleRJ]

Here is some more food for thought.

Here is the official Spiteful policy on marketing clones....

"Spinfuel will not review a clone product. We will not allow contributors to publish a video or written review on a clone from this day forth, and we will not review or promote any company that makes any type of clone.

We urge every vendor that reads this, or hears about this, to stop selling clones. You are not saving people money… you are selling them crap. In my mind there is no such thing as a “good clone”.

Copyright laws, patent infringement laws, and intellectual property rights exist for a reason. We will not be a part of the problem. We hope you will not be as well."

But I couldn't help but notice that on the same freaking page where SF published Herr Julia's diatribe on the evils of clones and the quoted proclamation above, I decided to look at the links AKA PAID advertisements from Vendors that Spiteful endorse's and I find this........

http://www.ecigexpress.com/electronic-cigarettes/mod-apv-e-cig-parts/rebuildable-atomizers-rba.html

http://www.smoque.net/collections/mods-rbas-rdas

http://www.thevaporgirl.com/mech-atties-RBA-RDA.htm

http://www.gothicvapor.com/rebuildable-atomizers/

So I guess the bottom line with the Spiteful crew is that we don't like clones.

Unless you pay us to advertise your business which sells clones by the basket full then it is OK with us.

I can't wait until Fast Tech pays to advertise there!

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

Here is some more food for thought.

Here is the official Spiteful policy on marketing clones....

"Spinfuel will not review a clone product. We will not allow contributors to publish a video or written review on a clone from this day forth, and we will not review or promote any company that makes any type of clone.

We urge every vendor that reads this, or hears about this, to stop selling clones. You are not saving people money… you are selling them crap. In my mind there is no such thing as a “good clone”.

Copyright laws, patent infringement laws, and intellectual property rights exist for a reason. We will not be a part of the problem. We hope you will not be as well."

But I couldn't help but notice that on the same freaking page where SF published Herr Julia's diatribe on the evils of clones and the quoted proclamation above, I decided to look at the links AKA PAID advertisements from Vendors that Spiteful endorse's and I find this........

http://www.ecigexpress.com/electronic-cigarettes/mod-apv-e-cig-parts/rebuildable-atomizers-rba.html

http://www.smoque.net/collections/mods-rbas-rdas

http://www.thevaporgirl.com/mech-atties-RBA-RDA.htm

http://www.gothicvapor.com/rebuildable-atomizers/

So I guess the bottom line with the Spiteful crew is that we don't like clones.

Unless you pay us to advertise your business which sells clones by the basket full then it is OK with us.

I can't wait until Fast Tech pays to advertise there!

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that "policy." I saw vendors advertising to the right of it that I knew sold clones.

I'm tired of this crap. Who cares. I am eager for a good V4 Kayfun clone to come out, though. I guess I'll have to read a review somewhere besides spinfuel, lol.

 

[Robert B]

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that "policy." I saw vendors advertising to the right of it that I knew sold clones.

I'm tired of this crap. Who cares. I am eager for a good V4 Kayfun clone to come out, though. I guess I'll have to read a review somewhere besides spinfuel, lol.

My friend, today is your lucky day. Svoemesto V4 hot off the assembly line

 

[Browncoat]

Copyright laws, patent infringement laws, and intellectual property rights exist for a reason. We will not be a part of the problem. We hope you will not be as well."

Here's the problem with their stance:

1) Copyright laws only apply to creative works. Books, photographs, artwork, etc. Certain copyright protections are granted immediately, while other rights, including the ability to receive compensation via lawsuit, must be applied for. Copyright law and intellectual property rights do not apply to vape products.

2) Patent law, again, only applies if an actual patent has been applied for and approved. Patents are only granted to new and original designs, which at this point, is going to be very difficult to accomplish in this industry.
​

Anyone can spend some time and research copyright law and figure out for themselves that it clearly doesn't apply here. As I pointed out in the comments section of that ridiculous article: clones are everywhere, for every type of product on the planet. Go into your local Auto Zone, there are hundreds of thousands of clones of auto parts. You have OEM and you have clones. This example alone should be enough to set any reasonable person straight on whether or not clones are legal.

I'm inclined to agree. This isn't about what Spinfuel perceives to "right" or "legal". I refuse to believe that anyone is that stupid, when the facts are so blatantly staring them in the face. No, it's about elbow rubbing and sucking up to authentic manufacturers, so they will continue to send free shit for these people to review (and probably keep for their personal collection). I don't even think it's about sponsors, because as already noted, if you PAY to advertise a clone, Spinfuel don't seem to care.

 

[Robert B]

It sounds like they confusing copyright laws with trademark laws. Like your example with auto parts. The OEM can sell a brake rotor they make for Ford at Auto Zone, and packaged as xyz-rotor. They just can't put Ford's logo on the part and sell it as a Ford part. As far as these clone's are concerned, they will put the name on it until they are challenged. If there is no challenge to the TM, then it's fair game. And the longer you allow your TM to be used unchallenged, the harder it is for the TM holder to defend. As in the case of Erlkönigin, forcing Fasttech to stop selling clones with their name on them. They are still selling the clones, minus the name.

I might add, the TM laws become even murkier if you contract a manufacturer to make a product for you, and you don't pay for it or take delivery. The manufacturer has a case to seize the product and sell it off to recoup the financial loss. The Chinese don't hesitate to do that.

 

[Browncoat]

Clone/aftermarket lawsuits have been shut down in the past. I'm almost certain that I read about a couple of benchmark cases that basically said an OEM can't hold a monopoly over the market. We've all bantered back and forth wondering how it's possible for clones to appear on the market so fast. The way the rest of the world works, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't also apply to vape gear is...

Authentic parts and cloned parts are made by the same damn manufacturer. It's basically the same product in a different box. Sometimes different materials are used or slight variations, but it's the same tooling, same molds, same process, same people in the same building. Same, same, same.

 

[Robert B]

Clone/aftermarket lawsuits have been shut down in the past. I'm almost certain that I read about a couple of benchmark cases that basically said an OEM can't hold a monopoly over the market. We've all bantered back and forth wondering how it's possible for clones to appear on the market so fast. The way the rest of the world works, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't also apply to vape gear is...

Authentic parts and cloned parts are made by the same damn manufacturer. It's basically the same product in a different box. Sometimes different materials are used or slight variations, but it's the same tooling, same molds, same process, same people in the same building. Same, same, same.

For sure,
As in this case, same product same box and probably same manufacturer.. lol

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

My friend, today is your lucky day. Svoemesto V4 hot off the assembly line

Oh, I'm aware my friend I've never ordered from Fasttech, and I'm awaiting reviews first. I think they already have 3 clones up of the V4, lol.

 

[Celtic Fog]

Yes, it’s true that I am angry that I was looking forward to seeing the faces of the vapers I was buying them for when they opened their gift. And it horrifies me to think that they will open the gift and wonder, “Did she buy me a SvoëMesto Kayfun or is it the clone?” -Julia

sounds to me, like someone has forgotten the spirit of Christmas and what it means to give a gift, furthermore, how sad to be associated with people that would be offended their gift was not an authentic....I would hate to be in her circle of friends, they sound like a rather disgusting group of people.

Keep it Foggy my Brothers and Sisters!

 

[Celtic Fog]

Left this on the comments there, waiting for approval....

"The Chinese invented E Cigarettes and E Liquid, so who is cloning who?"....Celtic Fog.

After reading her comments out loud, my wife wants to punch her in the face lol. What a twat.

 

[Celtic Fog]

They decided to put my post up afterall...hehehehe

 

[RZAwora]

They're only doing themselves a disservice by not reviewing any clones and/or anything from a manufacturer that makes clones. As a "true" enthusiast magazine, I would think they would want to do that to assist people in their buying choices. Their stance makes them a biased media, and that just doesn't sit well. They're not going to tell the truth, rather they're going to tell you what they were PAID to tell you. That misinforms anyone who reads their garbage magazine. Also, if the clones are such junk, I would think they would do a review of a clone side-by-side to the original so they can tell us how much better the original is to the clone. I don't see that happening. The fact that they advertise companies who sell clones just makes the whole thing even funnier to me. I know I would never spend a penny on their "Spiteful" magazine...hell I wouldn't even read it if I got a copy for free since I know they're biased.

 

[R3alJim Shady]

Even from an elitist's POV, I still can't wrap my head around this idea that clones somehow take value away from an authentic.

If you buy the original, shouldn't you just be content looking down on the poor souls who can't afford such things?

That's beyond elitist and jumps right up to asshole.

If I want something to vape on with some cool features and I can get it for less, I will. I'll take some lesser quality materials, some slightly crunchy threading, and even go without a logo so long as it performs close to the original. I'll be excited about using it bc it's new and potentially gives a great vape. You shouldn't need someone to look at your setup and immediately know how important you are.

Stupid girl saying stupid things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Celtic Fog]

Watched a youtube video the other day with a douche bag elitist laughing and bragging that he maxed out two credit cards on Authentic mods...what a dumb ass. Ill stick to buying clones purely for the fact that overspending is a poor life choice. I am proud to use clones and even prouder to have 0 debt. I don't have a mortgage, I don't have a car payment and I have not used a credit card in over 7 years. My monthly bills is all we have to worry about and it has made life so much more enjoyable.