Batteries for Eleaf 100W

[ConvictedSerialVapist]

I have just stepped up from a Vamo V7 30w to the new Eleaf 100w istick with a Lemo 2.
I have been using Panasonic High Drain NCR18650 Hybrid 2900mah batteries which are 10amp.
I am sure these batteries are not high enough amperage for the 100w mod.
My question is; Are 20a batteries sufficient or do I need to go with 30amp?
Thanks for any help.

 

[TasteMyToast]

20 amp is fine. I use samsung 25rs in my regulated devices.

 

[Maverik_X]

Lg he4 , lg he2 , samsung 25r as @TasteMyToast suggested. sony vtc4 or vtc5, many choices imo

 

[ConvictedSerialVapist]

Thanks guys. I went with the vtc4. I'm sure I will be happy.
Thanks again

 

[Mike H.]

You would need to vape at 88 watts with a .20 ohm coil to need 30 amps...thats actually 21 amps of power needed with a little head room to spare for added safety.

I just ordered one of the eleaf 100 watts...it uses a series battery configuration...so if you only plan to go 30 watts then a 20 amp battery is more than sufficient..Also consider the added MAH with the lower 20 amp cells for longer battery life.

 

[BoomStick]

You would need to vape at 88 watts with a .20 ohm coil to need 30 amps...thats actually 21 amps of power needed with a little head room to spare for added safety.

I just ordered one of the eleaf 100 watts...it uses a series battery configuration...so if you only plan to go 30 watts then a 20 amp battery is more than sufficient..Also consider the added MAH with the lower 20 amp cells for longer battery life.

To make 100w with 8v you only need 12.5a. Even with batteries drained to 3v each, 100w and 6v is 16.6a. Coil resistance and coil current have nothing to do with the amp load placed on the batteries in a regulated mod. The voltage being applied to the coil isn't the same as the voltage being supplied to the chip. The amps being applied to the coil isn't the same as the amps being supplied to the chip. The watt setting and battery voltage determine battery current. Your information is incorrect.

 

[Mike H.]

Mech mod on the brain i suppose.

So 20 amp batteries are more than enough to vape at its limit of .15 at 100 watts?

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Mech mod on the brain i suppose.

So 20 amp batteries are more than enough to vape at its limit of .15 at 100 watts?

As Boomstick mentioned, the resistance doesn't matter in a regulated device, the only thing that matters is the watt setting and how many batteries are in there. So if you have it set to 100W, no matter what the resistance is, with two batteries you're talking 12.5A when fully charged (100W divided by 8V) and 16-17A if you let them drain really low (100W divided by 6V). Easy for a 20A continuous battery.

Personally I would recommend something like the 3000mAh LG HG2 for this, especially if you're not quite using it at full power but it would even work at full power.

The VTC4 will work great too and obviously won't break a sweat but you are giving up a little bit of time between recharges by going with a lower mAh than you need to.

 

[BoomStick]

.15 is irrelevant. 100w divided by the minimum battery voltage the mod will operate at before shutting down will get you close to the max current the chip will pull from the batteries. These mods are usually around 95% efficient so add a little for convertor loss. 20a batteries should easily be fine with the mod we're talking about, unless someone is chain vaping at full power with batteries that are discharged quite a bit. Then you would be pushing the mod and the batteries to their limits. Technically ok still, but to leave some head room, 30a cells would be better if someone planned to push it that hard all the time. My 2 cents is if someone was gonna regularly vape at 100w they should probably get a higher power mod with 30a cells anyway.

 

[BoomStick]

Aww, you beat me to it.

 

[Mike H.]

Whats is confusing me is how the difference in ohms doesnt effect the voltage shown on a device.

On my sigelei ,a .5 ohm coil gives me 4.0 volts max at 30 watts (so, 7.5 amps)...if i change coil resistance higher, that same 30 watts is showing me higher voltage ...if i go lower to a .40 ohm it shows me 3.8v max @30w...so i guess im not understanding how coil ohms doesn't effect that even on a regulated.

The eleaf 100w has a operating voltage range of 2 to 10 volts (unless thats a misprint?) ..according to the watts divided by voltage at 2v its 50 amps being drawn with a .15 ohm coil @100w...Maybe why eleaf recommends a vtc4 for the device?

Ill assume the batteries share the load so thats 25 amps each battery which a vtc4 can handle safely.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Just as I mentioned, your sigelei is keeping you at about 30W. Power (watts) is voltage squared divided by resistance, or you can also calculate it as amps times voltage. Looking at the first formula, If you want to keep your power constant, and you lower your resistance, then the voltage has to go down too. If you raise the resistance, you can raise the voltage to get equal power. The numbers you're giving vary slightly in power but it's not a big difference, guessing it's just rounding errors in the chip.

The main critical thing I'm not sure you're seeing is that the amps and volts at the coil doesn't have to equal the amps and volts at the battery. You can transform between volts and amps, it's the same thing as running a high voltage line to your house and then getting only 110V out of the socket. The regulator chip is transforming between volts and amps. What remains consistent is the power, not the amps. Technically the power drops a little after transforming because of inefficiency but for simplicity you can think of the power remaining constant.

So in your example if power at the coil is 100W (2V and 50A) then to find out the battery current you solve using the power and voltage at the battery. So 100W with mostly charged batteries at 4V each, in series, would give 100W/8V = 12.5A at the battery. The regulator is transforming between 12.5A and 8V at the batteries to 50A and 2V at the coil. But the batteries don't care that it's 50A at the coil, they only see the 12.5A.

The 4V, 3.8V, 2V, etc that is shown on the display is the coil voltage, not the battery voltage. The battery voltage is independent of the voltage setting and therefore the battery current only depends on how much juice you have left in your batteries (the battery voltage) and the power setting of the device (the watts).

Does that make more sense?

 

[Scooter 72]

Dang I just wanted to no what would be the best batterys period. All I got was my head spinning with all this. So can some one just break it down for us simple folk. I'll be running my eleaf 100w hard sometimes and not other times. I just wanna. Buy the best that's it just the best out there.

 

[NemesisVaper]

For a 100W mod 20A batteries are fine. Samsung 25R, LG HE2 or HE4, Sony VTC4 (30A) or Sony VTC 5.

Theres no such thing as the best battery. What is the best car? The best house? The best food? Things can be simplified but then you'd need to ask every time you have to buy batteries for a different mod.

Grab a calculator, type in the wattage you will Vape at as a maximum and divide that by either 3.2V (for a single battery mod) or 6.4 (for a dual battery series wired mod) then times that number by 1.1 to take into account the fact that the board in the mod isn't 100% efficient. The number you come up with is the amperage of cell you need. For maximum possible amp draw, replace the wattage you Vape at with the maximum wattage of the mod.

 

[jasonculp]

As Boomstick mentioned, the resistance doesn't matter in a regulated device, the only thing that matters is the watt setting and how many batteries are in there. So if you have it set to 100W, no matter what the resistance is, with two batteries you're talking 12.5A when fully charged (100W divided by 8V) and 16-17A if you let them drain really low (100W divided by 6V). Easy for a 20A continuous battery.

.15 is irrelevant. 100w divided by the minimum battery voltage the mod will operate at before shutting down will get you close to the max current the chip will pull from the batteries. These mods are usually around 95% efficient so add a little for convertor loss. 20a batteries should easily be fine with the mod we're talking about, unless someone is chain vaping at full power with batteries that are discharged quite a bit.

Grab a calculator, type in the wattage you will Vape at as a maximum and divide that by either 3.2V (for a single battery mod) or 6.4 (for a dual battery series wired mod) then times that number by 1.1 to take into account the fact that the board in the mod isn't 100% efficient. The number you come up with is the amperage of cell you need. For maximum possible amp draw, replace the wattage you Vape at with the maximum wattage of the mod.

I have always thought this was how it worked with a regulated mod. I noticed this a while back comparing how warm my batteries were when vaping a regulated mod VS a mechanical. The mechanical always seemed to be warmer when compared to similar wattage on the regulated.

Where can I find more information about why this is, and how to calculate it, in semi-plain english?

 

[NemesisVaper]

Can't get more plain English than max wattage divides by battery voltage ;-)

In a series mod, you have twice the voltage. Max current draw will be when the cells are near "dead" (the point the mod cuts you off and shows low battery). In a regulated mod, they usually cut off at 3.2V per cell, so use 3.2 for a single cell device or 6.4 for a series dual cell device.

The board will simply take the wattage you set from the batteries. As the voltage of the batteries drops it has less flow, so it needs more current.

Regulated amp draw isn't talked about very much. Many many people are still stuck in mech mod mode. The amount of Vape reviewers I see warning people about building low on a regulated device or being angry that sub ohm coils are being sold with a regulated device to new vapers (eg Subox kit) frustrates me.

The concept of a regulated device taking wattage in one form and giving it in another is covered under ohms law. Unfortunately most of the info out there isn't light reading.

 

[jasonculp]

In a series mod, you have twice the voltage. Max current draw will be when the cells are near "dead" (the point the mod cuts you off and shows low battery). In a regulated mod, they usually cut off at 3.2V per cell, so use 3.2 for a single cell device or 6.4 for a series dual cell device.

Thank you.

This is starting to make more sense. I guess I have never really gotten my head wrapped around it (I've been stuck in "mech mod mode").

The concept of a regulated device taking wattage in one form and giving it in another is covered under ohms law. Unfortunately most of the info out there isn't light reading.

I will have to go find some of not-so-light reading. Personally I prefer this type reading...lol

Sorry for the thread hijack!

 

[hexskrew]

#1 - My first post I signed up just to give this little tid bit.


**1A** - Vaporjoes has a coupon for a pair of Samsung 25r's for $9.99+FS.. Wish to hell I would have known that when I went to the local vape shop today and bought my LG HE4's at $13 a piece..

http://vaporjoes.com/blog/2015/10/12/usa-blowout-a-pair-of-samsung-25r-20a30a-batteries-9-99-fs/

#2 - If it makes any difference to you I will break down two things:

a. Not that I condone it at ALL and as a matter of fact a few of my local officianados warned against it, however I have used my lowly old VCT4 (single battery) in my new Eleaf 100w with no problem, and as a matter of fact, the chip seems to detect this and wont allow vaping over 75 watts (I only vaped at like.. 13 watts with my kfun max with this setup).

b. If it is something to go for, I purchased LG HE4s and it seems to be doing absolutely fine in this mod. The odd thing however is it still limited the Wattage. It will only go up to 91.7 Watts with these installed, however since I really don't care about going over 40 watts (if that), then it's no deal breaker to me. I mean heck.. I got it the Eleaf with the coupon code through vaporjoes for $26. The darned HE4s cost the same price.

c. I am a little different than many other vapors. The main two reasons why I purchased this is because I wanted a high power mod that is safer than my old clapped out Nemesis clone (though still good just a pain in the ass), but I'll be using it with 1.5 to 1 ohm cheap clearos so I'll be not having to worry about battery life, but separately for something safe to run my 454 big block on occasion. I have been thinking about getting the Kanger Protank for quite sometime and I'll finally have something I know I can run that at but heck, that's all my requirements

#3. Eleaf may have a bad reputation from crappy builds, and the 100w isn't anything to write home about with button quality, but overall I have been extremely happy with it, and with some care, I don't see why it wouldn't last me at least a few years. Hell maybe I'll upgrade the buttons myself one day.

 

[NemesisVaper]

That is good news. I'd wondered if they'd implemented something like that but don't have one to test.

 

[hexskrew]

I was just too excited when I finally got the box to wait for a set of batteries. I had one VTC4 and one HE4 and I knew it wouldn't be wise to mix those so I said hell with it and tried it with just the VTC4.

Having dabbled a lot in microcontrollers and small electronics I didn't see why it would make any difference with one battery at lower power, especially because I know a lot of these boxes use the same chips with different capacitive configurations to accommodate whatever is the maximum volt/watt setup. I was a little worried about continued use with one battery in it because I wasn't sure if there may be something jank with the circuit or if it would starve some part and also I know when it comes to high amperage circuits you generally don't get a second chance if something goes wrong as opposed to just simple 3/5 volt low amp components.

But something I would like to get an opinion on however. I only bought one HE4 and I'm using the box with that and an HE4 I purchased a few months ago but rarely used.

I have a nite core charger that I charged both to max before I put them in but I'm wondering if it would be safer to buy a fresh set and use that instead. If the old HE4 wasn't so new or if the box were wired in series I wouldn't have done it.

I will only be charging then in my nitecore charger so until one starts slumping they should be relatively the same anyway for now.

Others I have spoken with are very much against even mixing the same batteries unless purchased in a pair but... I don't think they get that it's in parallel..

 

[BoomStick]

Using a married pair of batteries is better. As for the power limit, I'm guessing the mod couldn't supply enough voltage to get the watts any higher due to the resistance of the coil. I doubt the mod can tell the difference between one or two batteries being installed. I could be wrong, but...

 

[Saddletramp1200]

Battery's cost so little anymore. It's always smart to use good ones. I had a car battery blow a hole in the hood of my car once. I'm real careful with battery's.

 

[NemesisVaper]

Using a married pair of batteries is better. As for the power limit, I'm guessing the mod couldn't supply enough voltage to get the watts any higher due to the resistance of the coil. I doubt the mod can tell the difference between one or two batteries being installed. I could be wrong, but...

From my experience mods aren't clever enough to dynamically change the displayed wattage to the wattage they're actually delivering. They'll display a capped voltage reading. The mod doesn't have any control over the wattage number in display, other than updating it as the user commands.

 

[BoomStick]

From my experience mods aren't clever enough to dynamically change the displayed wattage to the wattage they're actually delivering. They'll display a capped voltage reading. The mod doesn't have any control over the wattage number in display, other than updating it as the user commands.

Dude said at one time the mod wouldn't go above 75 watts. Another time it wouldn't let him turn it up past 91.7 watts. I was speculating that if an atty was attached and the mod had read the resistance, it stopped allowing the watt setting to go up when it hit what would be the max voltage output the mod was capable of. I wasn't referring to a dynamic watt display. Regardless, my main point was that it doesn't sound like the mod was imposing any power limit due to the battery or batteries that were installed.

 

[hexskrew]

Dude said at one time the mod wouldn't go above 75 watts. Another time it wouldn't let him turn it up past 91.7 watts. I was speculating that if an atty was attached and the mod had read the resistance, it stopped allowing the watt setting to go up when it hit what would be the max voltage output the mod was capable of. I wasn't referring to a dynamic watt display. Regardless, my main point was that it doesn't sound like the mod was imposing any power limit due to the battery or batteries that were installed.

Ah. That's a good point. I never thought about that.

I'm going to conduct an experiment (mind you I am not firing this crap at these wattages).

Ok - Both batteries - Around half empty(or half full if you like):
1.15Ohm build - Caps at 86.9 Watts / 9.9 Volts

Ok this is weird..
One battery (the new one) only installed
1.09 Ohms is now read (same build. I haven't touched it, and tried wiggling it but the reading didn't change)
Caps at 91.7Watts / 9.9 Volts

One battery (the old one) only installed
1.09 Ohms still, Caps at the same 91.7 Watts / 9.9 Volts

Ok, so now BACK to both batteries installed:
Same 1.09 Ohms, Same cap at 91.7 Watts / 9.9 Volts.

So dude right above is correct. It does not limit by battery installation. It only limits by resistance of the coil.

Good catch man!

For all tests, I turned the wattage all the way down, turned it off by clicking 5 times, and then removing or adding the batteries.

 

[Slurp812]

Whats is confusing me is how the difference in ohms doesnt effect the voltage shown on a device.

On my sigelei ,a .5 ohm coil gives me 4.0 volts max at 30 watts (so, 7.5 amps)...if i change coil resistance higher, that same 30 watts is showing me higher voltage ...if i go lower to a .40 ohm it shows me 3.8v max @30w...so i guess im not understanding how coil ohms doesn't effect that even on a regulated.

The eleaf 100w has a operating voltage range of 2 to 10 volts (unless thats a misprint?) ..according to the watts divided by voltage at 2v its 50 amps being drawn with a .15 ohm coil @100w...Maybe why eleaf recommends a vtc4 for the device?

Ill assume the batteries share the load so thats 25 amps each battery which a vtc4 can handle safely.

Battery amps is not the same as atty amps in a regulated mod. 2 sides to the equation. 20 amp batteries will do ~ 72 watts when full. 60ish when nearly dead. So with 2 in a 100 watt mod, your good to rock 100 watts till they are dead. The build doesn't matter unless you run into some other limit on the device. 100 watts on a 0.15 load is 3.87 amps @ 25.8 amps. On the battery side at ~ 6.4 volts under load, that would be 15.6 amps, so yea. 20 amp batteries...

 

[NemesisVaper]

Ah. That's a good point. I never thought about that.

I'm going to conduct an experiment (mind you I am not firing this crap at these wattages).

Ok - Both batteries - Around half empty(or half full if you like):
1.15Ohm build - Caps at 86.9 Watts / 9.9 Volts

Ok this is weird..
One battery (the new one) only installed
1.09 Ohms is now read (same build. I haven't touched it, and tried wiggling it but the reading didn't change)
Caps at 91.7Watts / 9.9 Volts

One battery (the old one) only installed
1.09 Ohms still, Caps at the same 91.7 Watts / 9.9 Volts

Ok, so now BACK to both batteries installed:
Same 1.09 Ohms, Same cap at 91.7 Watts / 9.9 Volts.

So dude right above is correct. It does not limit by battery installation. It only limits by resistance of the coil.

Good catch man!

For all tests, I turned the wattage all the way down, turned it off by clicking 5 times, and then removing or adding the batteries.

If it will let you fire at that wattage with a single battery then eleaf have made a pretty bad decision imo. Being able to fire at 100W on one cell is pretty risky.

I'd like to see how it acts with a lower build. Something that can get the full 100W. Preferably something that's able to be vaped around there, then you can tell if there's actually 100W being delivered. If there is, 31A from a single cell may be teetering on the edge of danger if it's a 20A being used.

 

[mkhilario]

If it will let you fire at that wattage with a single battery then eleaf have made a pretty bad decision imo. Being able to fire at 100W on one cell is pretty risky.

I'd like to see how it acts with a lower build. Something that can get the full 100W. Preferably something that's able to be vaped around there, then you can tell if there's actually 100W being delivered. If there is, 31A from a single cell may be teetering on the edge of danger if it's a 20A being used.

Mine went right up to 100W with single battery and 0.6 coil. So it could be dangerous if one battery were to fail and you didn't know that you were only running on a single battery?

 

[Slurp812]

Oh, its parallel? Well then, double the battery amps, so that would be ~31 as others have stated. Demanding that much from a single 20 amp battery would result in a larger voltage drop, so it should protect itself based on that. Either back itself off, or just fail to deliver...

 

[mkhilario]

Mine went right up to 100W with single battery and 0.6 coil. So it could be dangerous if one battery were to fail and you didn't know that you were only running on a single battery?

Note: It will also charge with only 1 battery installed.

 

[hexskrew]

I have to agree that it's unsafe, but there are many many very cheap and easy ways that eLeaf could have built in a mechanism to tell the chip if it has one or two batteries installed. Weather that be as simple as a push in button on the inside of each battery sled to register if either or both batteries are installed, or even just a simple resistor system to check and see if there is a connection on each sled.

I am however very curious what would happen if there is only 1 battery installed and try to fire at 75+ watts.. But um.. I'm not doing it.

Safety first!

 

[hexskrew]

It'll function exactly as will all our other 75w singles.

And I have another maker's dual that runs on one the same way. Don't lay this one off on Eleaf.

Oh, I can agree, I don't want to go on a witch hunt on eLeaf about it, but it would just be safer for the novice ya know? Or the dumb... There are always the dumb to look out for..