75, 88, 156 amp continuous lithium batteries for a good price

[ztic]

Hello,

I do not vape, but you guys are looking at the wrong batteries if you want high discharge rates. Find better quality batteries for a fair price by looking into RC car batteries. These are the top of the line and latest tech but it's a competitive market so prices are very good. There's very low risk of counterfeit goods if you buy a reputable brand from a reputable hobby store, as they want to satisfy repeat customers and have been in the business for decades.

1) (recommended), get genuine A123 LiFe 26650 cells that provide 75 amps continuous discharge for under $13 (if you wait on that page for 2 minutes a popup will offer it for just over $11/cell)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=48783

This is a sturdy and safe cell in a standard format, hard to break and less dangerous than standard 18650 / 26650 lithium ion cells.

2) You can find Lithium Polymer (LiPo) batteries with higher continuous/burst discharge ratings than any 18650 or 26650 cell. These high energy / high power cells are the same type used in iPhones and MacBooks. They must be respected and treated properly as they can catch fire and explode if not properly charged or discharged to safe voltage levels, and they are especially dangerous if shorted or punctured. Search Youtube for "lipo fire" to see fiery explosions from damaging these high performance cells.

Even previous generation LiPo cells leave 18650 and 26650 cells in the dust. Here's a single cell standard LiPo (not the new advanced High Voltage type) that can sustain very high continuous discharge - very cheap too:

88 amps continuous (soldering skills required, no protection circuitry, very dangerous!) for $5/cell:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=33114

I hesitate to even mention this last one, as it is the very latest generation and you need a special charger (~$30 and up) to get all it can offer. Costs $9 per cell, note that this pack has 2 2400mAh 3.8v lipo hv cells in it. They are rated at 65C = 2.4 * 65 = 156 amps continuous and 130C = 2.4 * 130 = 312 amps burst discharge. Overkill doesn't begin to describe it.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...V_65_130C_High_Voltage_Lipoly_Pack_LiHV_.html

All these LiPo cells are "soft" cells and must be carefully protected from puncture or other physical damage.

A basic (not optimal) charger is compact and inexpensive:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...act_2S_3S_Lipo_Charger_100_240v_US_Plug_.html

Better chargers are more complicated to use, require 12V input (e.g. old computer power supply) and have potential to destroy your investment (and your house) if used improperly, but if you are careful you can get more power from your battery with them:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/RC_PRODUCT_SEARCH.asp?strSearch=lihv+charger

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Finally, just for fun:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=24307
Hard case 6000mAh LiPo cell capable of 390 amps continuous, 780 amps burst. Insane. $25.

 

[Mooch]

Thanks for the info! I'm curious what brought you here though if you don't vape. Do you work for Hobby King?

The A123 26650 is an incredible cell but its capacity is low and its low voltage can cause problems in a regulated mod. Mechanical mods are easier because you can adjust your coil resistance for the lower voltage.

While LiPo's can have an efficiency advantage over the 18650/26650 LMO, NMC, and NCA cells we use, the specs are often wildly exaggerated. That 6Ah hard case LiPo cannot be discharged at 390A without severe damage occurring (if not venting and/or thermal runaway) and the wiring and connectors melting.

 

[Zamazam]

Moved to unlisted vendors.

 

[ztic]

I don't work for any hobby shop, but am a customer of hobbyking (for RC cars, not vaping, as stated earlier) and believe they usually offer a good price for a good product.

If you don't believe the specs, it's always good to test them. Here's an example of a LiPo test of two brands of 25C LiPo batteries, they did pull 100 amps without damaging the battery, see this live test -- it requires a setup that I am not able to reproduce at home so I can't verify personally, but I do believe the batteries are able to produce far, far more current than other chemistries. Jump to 6:25 in the video to see the 100A test, it's very impressive.

The price of multiple vendors is also compared in that video...

 

[ztic]

More testing, this one testing a 300A claim:

It's fairly testable stuff, and RC people tend to measure...
Notes that the 390 amp battery does not come with wires soldered on because presumably you'd have to bring your own fat cables to handle that load (I have 10 feet of 100 amp cables on my car since the battery is in the rear and they are very very heavy copper..)

 

[Mooch]

Thanks!

100A I can believe.
392A? No.

I agree, LiPo's can deliver amazing amounts of current. My big question is always...how hot do they get? You can discharge HB6's, HD2's, or the VTC's (18650 batteries) at unbelievably high rates. But it really damages them. Can those LiPo's be discharged continuously at 100A at least 200 times? I'm not so sure.

But, they're definitely worth checking into!
I start LiPo testing next week for batteries being used in DNA200 mods (a high power vaping device). Should answer a lot of questions I have.

What brings you to VU? Are you a smoker now?

 

[Mooch]

More testing, this one testing a 300A claim:

It's fairly testable stuff, and RC people tend to measure...
Notes that the 390 amp battery does not come with wires soldered on because presumably you'd have to bring your own fat cables to handle that load (I have 10 feet of 100 amp cables on my car since the battery is in the rear and they are very very heavy copper..)

200A+...impressive!
But a very short term test. There are 18650's that can do 100A short term. Please don't think that I am slamming your posts or LiPo's though. But they aren't a fundamentally different battery. While a LiPo's can have lower internal resistance than most of the cells vapers use, it's not a huge difference. LiPo's do take up less room though (unless the vaping device is tubular) and this can be a big advantage in getting more capacity than using multiple cyclindrical cells with all the air gaps.

 

[Zamazam]

The issues might become onboard charging for a mod, using the balance plug, et cetera.

 

[fq06]

On board charging is already a problem if your using a lipo with more than 1 cell. I can't see any of the current mods integrating on board balance charge capability.
If you want the most life out of your lipo, you should be balance charging at least every once in a while to keep the cells at equal levels... once a week?

Or, since you can grab one from hobbyking for $5-$10 with more than enough discharge capability, maybe you don't care and toss it every 6 months

 

[ztic]

Mooch: I ran into VU because I was doing research on high discharge cells and at normal places (e.g. amazon.com) I noticed a huge percentage of 18650 and 26650 cell reviews and questions were from the vaping community, and many complaints about cells were about counterfeit and discharge below the rating.

I'm a life long battery nerd, spent a lot of my youth building circuits, racing RC cars, and as an adult replaced my lead acid car battery with a LiFe battery and some maxwell ultracapacitors capable of literally thousands of amps discharge. Recently got back in touch with RC cars and was astounded with the advances in LiPo tech, and bought some to test it out, most living up to the claims.

Just noticed that I had a shared interest with the community...

I don't know about the heat produced by the cells, but the LiPo cells I've been experimenting with have been surprisingly low heat -- heat is proportional to internal resistance, so as the resistance drops, heat production intrinsic to the battery will also drop. However the rest of the circuit will still produce a *lot* of heat with that kind of power...