I really can't tell what makes better clouds?

conanthewarrior · Jul 4, 2015

Hey people. I have a El cabron clone that I bought some 30 gauge and 28 gauge as 26 would not fire nice clouds in my sig30.

I honestly can not tell what provides more vapour, the 30 gauge or the 28 gauge at 20+ watts (10-15 watts a coil).

The 28 I think may be a bit denser, but less of it, the 30 maybe a bit more but not as dense if that makes sense?

I know there are much more knowledgeable people on here than me, so what should work better? I am using it at 1.2 Ohm's, so each coil is 2.4.

EDIT: I forgot to add, flavour comes first for me, and I think the 30 may of had the upper hand as I could use it at lower wattages for a sensible amount of vapour.

Lefty · Jul 4, 2015

30 gauge would likely be more appropriate for wrapping 2.4 ohm coils without the number of wraps getting out of hand. You have less metal to heat up with thinner, higher resistance wire making it more responsive. Wicking and airflow are critical - both the amount and placement - to taste and vapor as well.

conanthewarrior · Jul 4, 2015

Lefty said:
30 gauge would likely be more appropriate for wrapping 2.4 ohm coils without the number of wraps getting out of hand. You have less metal to heat up with thinner, higher resistance wire making it more responsive. Wicking and airflow are critical - both the amount and placement - to taste and vapor as well.

Ok thank you, I think 30 guage is the more sensible option too as I can turn it down and use it with a reasonable amount of vapour, then turn it up and its a bit of a beast ( I know 30 watts isn't much to cloud chasers, but I'm not really a cloud chaser, I just wanted to see how big I could get from 30 watts.) Flavour is my main thing, then clouds second.

conanthewarrior · Jul 5, 2015

BTW, how many wraps IS getting out of hand? I don't know what is/isnt.

Lefty · Jul 5, 2015

Anything past 12 is getting pretty unwieldy and likely to take a while to heat up and cool down. Also to start needing more room in some builds. At that point you would be better off using thinner wire to reach your target. I generally move to a different gauge or a different diameter if I need more than 10.

conanthewarrior · Jul 5, 2015

Lefty said:
Anything past 12 is getting pretty unwieldy and likely to take a while to heat up and cool down. Also to start needing more room in some builds. At that point you would be better off using thinner wire to reach your target. I generally move to a different gauge or a different diameter if I need more than 10.

Ahh, thank you. I genuinely didn't know that.

Lefty · Jul 5, 2015

Just my take on it. There's a lot of different ways to coil and proponents for most of them. Don't be afraid to experiment to find what you prefer.

TwistedWires · Jul 5, 2015

the more surface area the coil has the more juice can come in contact with the hot wire surface. my clapton coils make great clouds. in the pic you can see how much surface area a clapton has. the juice can seap all into the ridges this is 25ga kanthal with 30ga wrapped around it this is a 0.4 ohm set up

conanthewarrior · Jul 5, 2015

I really like my Sig 30, so much I am buying a sig50. I will mostly use it as a 30 watt device maximum, but its nice to know I can crank it to 50 If I really wanted too.

Unfortunately its the missus birthday this month, I have ordered her an orient automatic watch, and got myself the Lemo V2. I get payed fornightly, so will get the sig 50 in a fortnight, as it has a bit of headroom over the 30 and I wont be constantly running it full power, and also as a vaper I am a bit hooked on collectin things lol.

For now I have gone back to 26 gauge single coil(2mm or 2.5, not sure), it seems to provide the best flavour of all the gauges, even against duals.

Fenris4024 · Jul 5, 2015

So much of it depends on what you're building on as well... some atties just produce more flavor than others (Magma, Hobo, (I own both of these, nad use them for testing my DIY's when they're steeping) and I've heard that the Deringer style is great for flavor as well). But, with those atties, they all have a smaller internal "area" in which to build/ wick. SO, you get more of a condensed vape, leading to more condensed flavors.

From the sounds of things, you found your own personal sweet spot in the 26ga, which to me is a great gauge to use, as it is a good "middle" of the road. Builds aren't going to be wicked low, which with a 30w mod, you don't want anyhow.

For comparison, my daily driver (RBA) is a CLTv3 on a sig 100w. I build dual 24ga 5/6 wraps on a 3mm mandrel, and it usually comes in right about 0.2 ohms. Great flavor and clouds, but it can be a little warm (which I like). Depending on the juice I am using, I vary the wattage, but for me, its been a beast.

conanthewarrior · Jul 5, 2015

26 gauge is the best for me in single coil, around 20 watts or so, perfect single coil. I am so impressed with my sig 30 in a few weeks I am going to get a sig 50, and use that and keep the 30 as a back up/let my fiancee use it. 50 watts might not be much to many on here, but I found 30 watts with 2 30 gauge coils at around 1.2 ohms (2.4 each)was pretty intense.

Having the extra 20 watts would allow me to do the same but with my 26 gauge coils, I could fire them dual. I am honestly a flavour person, and find they make lovely flavour, but I do like to be able to make a bit of a beastly cloud if I want. I like the 50 as it is still single 18650, I'm not too fond of going for a dual 18650 device, and to be honest I doubt I would ever use it past 50 watts, so 50 watts seems sensible to me. It is just going to be a long 2 weeks waiting for payday knowing I am getting a new mod.

Although, on tuesday my Lemo V2 should arrive, so that is a good thing.

EDIT: I just noticed the derringer is kown for flavour. THats pretty dcool, as I was going to order that when I order my sig50 next payday.

Fenris4024 · Jul 5, 2015

Yeah, having the extra 20 watts will if nothing else make you feel better about not having to push your mod to its "max" all the time. Its why I upgraded from my DNA30 originally. I got into the whole "subtank" craze, (starting with the Atlantis) and found my DNA30 a bit anemic. Bought a sig 100, and have yet to ever fire it above 70w. To me, the 70w at 0.2 ohms is more than enough cloud so far (I don't do comps) and not a fan of setting off our security system's fire alarm!

I think you'll love the extra 20w to play around with, and once I got a device that would actually handle subohm coils for dual coil designs, I never looked back. More clouds and better flavor (at least for me)

conanthewarrior · Jul 5, 2015

Fenris4024 said:
Yeah, having the extra 20 watts will if nothing else make you feel better about not having to push your mod to its "max" all the time. Its why I upgraded from my DNA30 originally. I got into the whole "subtank" craze, (starting with the Atlantis) and found my DNA30 a bit anemic. Bought a sig 100, and have yet to ever fire it above 70w. To me, the 70w at 0.2 ohms is more than enough cloud so far (I don't do comps) and not a fan of setting off our security system's fire alarm!

I think you'll love the extra 20w to play around with, and once I got a device that would actually handle subohm coils for dual coil designs, I never looked back. More clouds and better flavor (at least for me)

I'l tell you the truth, I have tried sub ohming (my device can go down to 0.3) and it didnt really do it for me. Maybe with the extra watts I might enjoy it? I know I will defnitely enjoy them entra 20 watts. I have been working out my money, I might not have to wait 2 weeks, I might be able to get it on wednesday, so fingers crossed I can, and I will have it next day so next week I could have a nice new Sig 50 to play with, along with my lemo V2. The sig75 temp control is also tempting, but yet to be out and I don't want to buy a brand new device, as there is usually small problems with day one equipment, which the fix in later revisions.

Fenris4024 · Jul 5, 2015

Niiiice! Even though the Sig30 can go down to 0.3, its not going to perform near as well (power-wise) as the Sig 50 will. 30w on a 0.3 ohm load is about 3 volts, if my math is somewhat correct, and that to me is going to be super anemic. Running the same coil at 50w will be more akin to a normal battery... somewhere between a 3.7-3.8v I would think. Much better flavor and vapor output.

For comparison, I run my dripper at whatever wattage would be at 4.2 volts, so its like hitting a mech mod with a super fresh battery for me. On my Starre tank, I operate between 3.5v-3.9ish, because otherwise its just too hot of a vape, and I lose a lot of the flavor notes. I did notice on the starre that even at a whopping 3.3 volts, I still got wicked killer flavor. I dunno what's in those coils, but apparently its made of magic. My Atlantis NEVER worked that well, heck, NONE of my tanks ever had as good of a taste from them.

I have a Lemo one, but I haven't used it in a while, maybe I need to rewick it and try it out again... I think my issue with it was the airflow was a bit too tight for what I wanted, but having since gotten a dremmel, well, that I can now change

.

I'm curious to find out how much better the 50w makes your overall vape experience improved though, so keep us posted mate!

conanthewarrior · Sep 6, 2015

I think the sigelei had an issue from the beginning of not firing enough power, it powers dual coil 26 gauge fine now. I have no Idea what was wrong with it, but being my first mod I assumed that the 30 watts it was outputting (More like 11-12) was the reason I thought I needed A LOT more power, and got the sig 150.

Since I have Checked the onboard chip by doing the button press trick, changind from PWM to DC-DC and back a few times, it has been working for over a week properly. It is now in my rota of mods that I use. I just don't take it out, even though it is perfect size, incase it goes wrong while I am out. The D2 or sig 75 is my usual 'ADV' with a lemo v2 tank.

CloudySkies · Sep 7, 2015

I started off saying 50w was gonna do me forever... as the postman drops off my 200w device tomorrow. Just drop the $80 something on a sig150 and you'll pretty much be set for awhile. Maybe even spring for the new sig75TC

conanthewarrior · Sep 7, 2015

CloudySkies said:
I started off saying 50w was gonna do me forever... as the postman drops off my 200w device tomorrow. Just drop the $80 something on a sig150 and you'll pretty much be set for awhile. Maybe even spring for the new sig75TC

I already have them both lol, also an IPV D2, a mech, with a SMOK Xcube 2 coming tomorrow.

CorallineAlgae · Sep 7, 2015

Fenris4024 said:
I have a Lemo one, but I haven't used it in a while, maybe I need to rewick it and try it out again... I think my issue with it was the airflow was a bit too tight for what I wanted, but having since gotten a dremmel, well, that I can now change .

I took a dremel to all three of my Lemo V1 tanks and it made a noticeable difference. I only slightly enlarged the side holes, not the center pin. I've been meaning to enlarge the side holes on the pin but I always forget.

Also, if you use twisted wire you will get a BIG jump in flavor over standard wire in the Lemo. I've used Clapton coils but they're pretty tight in the chamber and can block air flow. Twisted 28 gauge wire works beautifully on a 2.5mm rod. The coils fit very well, don't block airflow, & give much more flavor than round wire. I've built .8 - 1.5Ω twisted coils and they all work. 1.2Ω is my sweet spot. I just us the twisted UD wire, nothing fancy. I have some Stainless Steel wire coming this week so that may change things.

kevinmyfsu · Sep 9, 2015

CorallineAlgae said:
I took a dremel to all three of my Lemo V1 tanks and it made a noticeable difference. I only slightly enlarged the side holes, not the center pin. I've been meaning to enlarge the side holes on the pin but I always forget.

Also, if you use twisted wire you will get a BIG jump in flavor over standard wire in the Lemo. I've used Clapton coils but they're pretty tight in the chamber and can block air flow. Twisted 28 gauge wire works beautifully on a 2.5mm rod. The coils fit very well, don't block airflow, & give much more flavor than round wire. I've built .8 - 1.5Ω twisted coils and they all work. 1.2Ω is my sweet spot. I just us the twisted UD wire, nothing fancy. I have some Stainless Steel wire coming this week so that may change things.

Could you please let me know where you purchased your SS wire? I'm really interested in trying it out and don't know where to get it.

CorallineAlgae · Sep 9, 2015

kevinmyfsu said:
Could you please let me know where you purchased your SS wire? I'm really interested in trying it out and don't know where to get it.

Sure thing. I ordered it from 2 places, FastTech (here & here) & Vapor DNA (here). You'll get your wire much faster from Vapor DNA, but FastTech has way more selection and gauges along with free shipping (I always pay about 86¢ for slightly faster shipping). I hope it's okay to post links. If not I'll remove them.

kevinmyfsu · Sep 9, 2015

CorallineAlgae said:
Sure thing. I ordered it from 2 places, FastTech (here & here) & Vapor DNA (here). You'll get your wire much faster from Vapor DNA, but FastTech has way more selection and gauges along with free shipping (I always pay about 86¢ for slightly faster shipping). I hope it's okay to post links. If not I'll remove them.

Thank you so much. This is what I've been looking for. I even knew they had it in the back of my mind because I remember buying ni200 from them and thinking "oh what's this ss all about?" and then just buying the ni200 anyway haha. I'm hoping to use SS in TC on my XCube. I'll have to spend the $1 to upgrade my box but whatevs.

CorallineAlgae · Sep 9, 2015

kevinmyfsu said:
Thank you so much. This is what I've been looking for. I even knew they had it in the back of my mind because I remember buying ni200 from them and thinking "oh what's this ss all about?" and then just buying the ni200 anyway haha. I'm hoping to use SS in TC on my XCube. I'll have to spend the $1 to upgrade my box but whatevs.

Happy to help. I'm pretty jealous of those XCubes. Temp control with SS is like the holy grail of vaping. It'll probably be the biggest thing in 2016. Heck, just using it in standard watt mode is blowing people away. I've never used TC heads because I'm unsure about the safety of ni200 and Ti wire. I really hope Joyetech comes out with a firmware update that allows the eVic VTC Mini to use SS in TC mode.

If you want to wrap your own SS coils to use in normal watt mode, Stainless wire that's 3 gauges higher than kanthal comes out almost the same resistance in Steam Engine. For example, if you build with 26 gauge kanthal, 29 gauge SS would get almost the same ohms with the same number of wraps. It doesn't work out because SS wire only comes in even numbers, but it's still easy to figure out the base lines. If you like to vape on .5Ω coils, it looks like 26 gauge SS is the best. For 1Ω coils you're looking at 28 gauge SS. I can't speak about using it in TC mode. That's XCube territory.

I ordered 30, 28 & 26 gauges. Those will easily make .4Ω to 1.5Ω coils, and much lower if I build twisted, parallel or dual coils.

PS: I don't know if you needed all of that info. I just thought I'd throw it out there just in case.

Fenris4024 · Sep 10, 2015

I'm waiting on my 316L to come in the mail... I picked up some 26 and 24 from vapor DNA myself.... I can't wait to use it in tc on my vaporshark 200! I've used 316L before when I tried gplat, and it was damn fine vape, can't imagine how ridiculous it's gonna be for a TC device.

I feel ya on the safety issue with ni200 and titanium as well. Too damned fiddly, and too much that can go wrong for me to feel comfortable with it. I've used both, and both CAN be a great vape, but to me 316L is where it's gonna be at.

I really can't tell what makes better clouds?

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