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Vaping Caffeine?

BadLuckAndTrouble

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So I got a free bottle of juice from my local vape shop for being part of the 5 star rewards program that they all use around here, anyway while I was in the shop a guy came in and asked for some blueberry creme juice with 6mg and 20 percent caffeine. I was blown away, and asked wtf you can vape caffeine? And he says he's a truck driver and vapes it so he doesnt have to drink coffee and use the restroom as frequently. So anyway he gets the bottle made and before walking out asks me if I want to try some, so I was like sure, he has it in a kanger subtank on a local vape shop "special" (read crappy) mech box with a .15 coil (which i didnt even know they made) and I take two big lung hits of it and Boom, I am truly fucked up. So much caf that im shaking and feeling unwell.

Do people casually vape this stuff? Are there any inherent risks?
 

rich424

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I have tried a brand that the local B&M sells. I want to say it is "HIGH VOLTAGE". The juice is supposed to be infused with caffeine. I'm no chemist but it didn't do squat for me. The flavor however was great ( honeydew melon ). They also carried a flavor that was supposed be calumny and promoted sleep.


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thewanderernick

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I've seen many many many discussions on this throughout the last few years, I always say if I want caffeine in my system, I'll get it drinking coffee, not inhale it through my lungs. :):)
I guess i could see how people like him might need something like that, but I want coffee myself.
 

thewanderernick

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DD drive thru ~Rocks~ just sayin:D
Yes please, I am also one of the coffee drinkers who prefers a hot cup of coffee without all the frills. I love getting some reading time in at starbucks and just getting a nice long shot latte. But lately I have been grinding my own beans at home and cold brewing them. You just add the coffee to cold water and put in the fridge the flavor is amazing. You can either pour it over ice for a good iced coffee or heat it up real quick and the flavor doesnt diminish
 

Whiskey

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Yes please, I am also one of the coffee drinkers who prefers a hot cup of coffee without all the frills. I love getting some reading time in at starbucks and just getting a nice long shot latte. But lately I have been grinding my own beans at home and cold brewing them. You just add the coffee to cold water and put in the fridge the flavor is amazing. You can either pour it over ice for a good iced coffee or heat it up real quick and the flavor doesnt diminish
Nothing like fresh ground, just the smell alone makes my mouth water!!!ummmmmmmmmmmmmm
 

Mattp169

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this brings up an interesting point and something the medical and scientific community could look into.

We already are taking some medications and even the flu vaccinie through inhalation, why couldnt we just vape things that are also good for us. Get your daily dose of vitamins in your vape, or take your antibiotics while vaping. Just to be clear I am being serious. I mean think about it why do we just have to put bad things into our bodies, or things we have no clue how really safe they are. Lets mix our medicines and vitamins directly into our vapes. I can see it now the all new blue pill in vape form.

Now I am not suggestiig everyone go do this, I am suggesting the medical and scientific communities should research this as a possibility
 

thewanderernick

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I could see that as a possibility but at the moment it would probably be a huge waste of money for them to be developing that kind of thing. I think the future will have some interesting uses for vaping tech.
 

Whiskey

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tumblr_nskrx4Ckky1uorz88o1_500_zpsw1xv0n5b.jpg
 

DripDripptyDrip

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this brings up an interesting point and something the medical and scientific community could look into.

We already are taking some medications and even the flu vaccinie through inhalation, why couldnt we just vape things that are also good for us. Get your daily dose of vitamins in your vape, or take your antibiotics while vaping. Just to be clear I am being serious. I mean think about it why do we just have to put bad things into our bodies, or things we have no clue how really safe they are. Lets mix our medicines and vitamins directly into our vapes. I can see it now the all new blue pill in vape form.

Now I am not suggestiig everyone go do this, I am suggesting the medical and scientific communities should research this as a possibility



I think they are definitly looking into this (the scientific communities i mean) as a source of inhaling vitamins and other things. I think that the guys who manufacture the pills or syrups or other forms of medicinal dosage would be very against this idea. The pill manufacturers would go out of business if someone huge decided to convert their drug into an inhaler.

While writing this I was thinking about how they could create tiny gel capsules that you could insert into a tiny tank that would puncture it and let the juice get wicked. There's a few other ways of doing this but this would be very interesting.

I want to try eagle energy ecigs, but they only sell it in a 10 pack.
 

Fenris4024

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I'd be hesitant to vape any format of extra stimulant in an ecig... especially if I don't know how much of what whoever is using.

Think about how you feel after getting too much nicotine... jittery, nauseated, worst headache of your life... now imagine this while over caffeinated. There's about 140mg of caffeine in a cup of coffee. How much is a safe amount to vape?
I'd rather not be a guinea pig for some guy's scheme to milk a few more bucks outta some ejuice. Maybe it's just me though....
 

steadyhandstunes

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I am a coffee snob. I brew my own espresso at home when I have time. I would try a juice w caffeine just for kicks, however, nothing will keep me away from a nice cup of joe.


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thewanderernick

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I settle for beans from a local roaster, and my Aero. Works for me.
Me too, but mainly because I have no espresso machine myself. Although the best coffee place near me is this korean guys shop. Best latte I have ever had.
 
Yes please, I am also one of the coffee drinkers who prefers a hot cup of coffee without all the frills. I love getting some reading time in at starbucks and just getting a nice long shot latte. But lately I have been grinding my own beans at home and cold brewing them. You just add the coffee to cold water and put in the fridge the flavor is amazing. You can either pour it over ice for a good iced coffee or heat it up real quick and the flavor doesnt diminish

Do you have a link where I may find out about this cold brewing more thoroughly. I love iced coffee and would love to be able to make my own but I had heard the process wasn't too easy... Thanks
 

Fenris4024

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I can attest to the cold brew being ultra legit, and very versatile as well, and great flavor too!
 

ForrestGump

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Coffee is a different caffeine. This is dangerous. what If your in traffic and you get anxious attack. Your going to be in trouble. I use the sleepy ones. Great for bedtime.
 

thewanderernick

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Coffee is a different caffeine. This is dangerous. what If your in traffic and you get anxious attack. Your going to be in trouble. I use the sleepy ones. Great for bedtime.
Sleepy ones? You taking teas or what
 

PickNic Basket

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And he says he's a truck driver and vapes it so he doesnt have to drink coffee and use the restroom as frequently.
...

Do people casually vape this stuff? Are there any inherent risks?

Caffeine is a mild diuretic; it increases the need to urinate. In a person with a high regular intake of caffeine, this effect is diminished (but it wouldn't reduce the need, just not increase it). So his less frequent bathroom breaks aren't due to vaping caffeine--they are due to not drinking liquids. Using No-Doz, Vivarin, or the like would have the same effect.

Caffeine overdose comes with a wealth of symptoms, including cardiac arrhythmia and arrest. It is usually difficult to reach overdose level due to the body's natural defenses, such as vomiting. However, chain vaping for hours might allow caffeine levels in the body to rise high enough for an OD. The half-life of caffeine is around 5 hours (studies vary in findings, from 4-6 hours).

Considering there are numerous documented hospitalizations and even deaths due to caffeine overdose, and the fact that there is absolutely no need for me to vape it, I would avoid it myself. I can easily get my fix with Mountain Dew.

And with all of the controversy over the other ingredients in e-liquid such as DAPA, nicotine, even the flavorings, why add one more thing into the mix if it's unnecessary?
 

ForrestGump

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For me, here's the deal... I vape in an effort to save my lungs, and the container they came in. :p

I already see the food flavorings we use as a mild question mark. I don't feel comfortable adding to that with caffeine, alcohol, additional stimulants (we know inhaled nic very well), or relaxants (that's a word now) marketed by fans of aromatherapy because they found a new market niche.

Time will tell of course, with all of the above. There's an "early adopter" comfort level for everyone... I'm already at mine.
Its nicotine free. I bought the sleep booster twice. And I really enjoy it at bedtime. Its harmless. A little sweet and feels great. They name all the natural ingredients to it on the site Its just vitamins. I would never use the caffeine ones. Ever!
 

ForrestGump

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You're making un-evidenced statements.

"Natural" doesn't mean "safe".
"Organic" doesn't mean "healthier".
"I'm not dead yet" doesn't mean "harmless".

And "inhalation" is not equivalent to "ingestion".
I'm only telling you what I know. And have experienced. I feel no harm from it. No nicotine b/with vitamins. To help you calm down and relax. Whats the worst that can happen.? They have one you just drop 4 drops in your already bought e juice and vape that
 

tonejoeo

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this brings up an interesting point and something the medical and scientific community could look into.

We already are taking some medications and even the flu vaccinie through inhalation, why couldnt we just vape things that are also good for us. Get your daily dose of vitamins in your vape, or take your antibiotics while vaping. Just to be clear I am being serious. I mean think about it why do we just have to put bad things into our bodies, or things we have no clue how really safe they are. Lets mix our medicines and vitamins directly into our vapes. I can see it now the all new blue pill in vape form.

Now I am not suggestiig everyone go do this, I am suggesting the medical and scientific communities should research this as a possibility


This is a good point. Thanks for thinking outside of the box. My only hesitation would be, could this actually work?


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PickNic Basket

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For some things it might work. The issue would be dosage. Add it to juice, or vape by itself? How much do you have to vape? Some people hit harder than others, hold longer, etc. While it may work well for some things, it may be impractical for others.
 

Saddletramp1200

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Oh Boy. A solid like I use is a bad thing to introduce into the lungs. Caffeine is a devil it's self. If you think it will hit like drugs, it won't happen. Problem is it can kill you. Starve your brain for 02 till hemorrhage. Done speed, Molys. cross tops. ect. Caffeine is fools gold. Promises are lies. OTC remedies might envoke the feeling. but will make you sick. Pound the shit out of a home Expresso beaker. Even cheap coffee compressed is a better buzz than crap. Shotgun four cups. Trust me.
 

Slurp812

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Oh Boy. A solid like I use is a bad thing to introduce into the lungs. Caffeine is a devil it's self. If you think it will hit like drugs, it won't happen. Problem is it can kill you. Starve your brain for 02 till hemorrhage. Done speed, Molys. cross tops. ect. Caffeine is fools gold. Promises are lies. OTC remedies might envoke the feeling. but will make you sick. Pound the shit out of a home Expresso beaker. Even cheap coffee compressed is a better buzz than crap. Shotgun four cups. Trust me.

Um, wow. But yes, excess caffeine is bad. Real bad...
 

MEENMAN83

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I have no colon so I have absorption issues however I will never vape vitamins, caffiene, booze. I will vape ejuice and "colorado" ejuice. I say go ahead and vape caffeine as it's one less putz I have to worry about in the social security check line.
 

Jimi

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I don't see big tobacco making cigarettes with caffeine in them, and I am sure they have thought of this concept, gee I wonder why they don't? I wonder if maybe they looked at the for mentioned possible hazards and some we haven't covered yet. Not that they care about our health but for liability reasons or just they don't want that black eye. As greedy as they are I think they would of.:rolleyes:
 

RobbieR

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IMHO adding caffeine to e-juice that already contains nicotine just gives the anti-vaping crowd more ammunition.
 
As a student at college I could see the use for this in an all night cramming session. But I question how safe it is to vape caffeine. I get why but I'd still rather have my Starbucks (I hear a venti salted caramel mochachino with light cream and sugar calling my name) or monster energy drink.
 

robot zombie

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I think it's a hokey idea. Caffeine has a narrow beneficial range. After a certain point, side-effects become much more severe and pronounced than the positive effects. It's not well-suited to such a direct ROA... ...is what I would say if I knew what the bioavailability of caffeine aerosol was in the lungs. If it absorbs well, then dosing would be very touchy.

The threshold for overdose lowers as the efficacy of the dosing means increases (think of injection versus oral,) so the caffeine that's generally considered benign in beverages would not be quite so friendly in a vape. Say the bioavailability for inhalation is 10x that of oral... ...that would mean 6-8 cups of coffee's worth would be deadly as opposed to the usual estimate of 60-80 when drank. And far below that point, risky and potentially damaging side-effects would occur. The margin for error would be greatly reduced.

Now, even at that 10x rate, it would likely be hard to consume enough to kill in a short time span (it would still take a couple of grams,) but it would be much easier to consume enough for clinically-significant symptoms to manifest.

Depending on the half-life through that ROA, a toxic accumulation in the bloodstream could also be more easily attained than it is with nicotine, which is eliminated from the bloodstream very quickly and thus presents minimal risk of a catastrophic overdose within a wider range of doses. Even an acute overdose of nicotine through the lungs is typically mediated by a short span of time. Most people will stop from the discomfort long before serious poisoning occurs. It may be harder to tell when to stop with something that is absorbed quickly and eliminated more gradually, which could easily be the case with caffeine.

And if it doesn't absorb well, then you might as well take it orally, since it won't kick in till it drains and hits the GI tract anyway.

A caffeinated vape would also have to taste awful. I can tell you from experience that even small amounts of pure caffeine are excruciatingly bitter and alkaline. There's a reason for all of the sugar in energy drinks aside from inducing a sugar rush. The taste of caffeine is hard to mask.

I just think to myself, "Why vape caffeine when vaping and coffee go so well together?"

Of course, this is all conjecture. It's hard to say what the risks are without knowing how caffeine absorbs in the lungs. It is merely my opinion that putting caffeine in a vape, if it proved effective, would not be a wise endeavor. It's not as forgiving of a drug as some people like to think.
 
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PickNic Basket

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The idea is really rather pointless, as nicotine is a far stronger stimulant than caffeine.
If you use 0mg, add a bit of nicotine.
If you use nicotine, up it slightly.
That will have more of an effect than adding caffeine, and will not come with any unknown side effects.
 

VapeRN

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I administer caffeine IV often in my practice. We go as high as 500mg in an hour to treat post spinal tap headaches. The side effects are quite profound though. Irritability, rapid heart beat, palpitations, jitters, etc. Most patients don't like it. If assume vaping it would have a similar uptake to IV, essentially instant. There wouldn't be a good way to regulate the dosage in vaping form. If you had a dedicated rig that delivered a precise dose, say 25-50mg per 2second hit, then a solid 4-5 puffs would get you a coffee sized caffeine rush. Overdosage would be too easy and you could probably get yourself in a world of hurt this way. I say no. Drink it instead.


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robot zombie

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I administer caffeine IV often in my practice. We go as high as 500mg in an hour to treat post spinal tap headaches. The side effects are quite profound though. Irritability, rapid heart beat, palpitations, jitters, etc. Most patients don't like it.
o_O I can't imagine why! Yeah... ...but no, mainlining 2-3 cups of strong coffee's worth of caffeine sounds pretty insane. I think if I just drank the coffee equivalent to 500mg over the course of an hour, I'd be feeling pretty awful. It would at least ruin half of my day.

I take it from the extreme nature of that tactic that it must at least work well for the headaches and I imagine that the headaches from a spinal tap would be pretty intense in their own right, but somehow, I think I'd rather deal with post spinal-tap pain than writhe in that jittery, caffeinated hell. The crash from that has to suck, too.

If assume vaping it would have a similar uptake to IV, essentially instant. There wouldn't be a good way to regulate the dosage in vaping form. If you had a dedicated rig that delivered a precise dose, say 25-50mg per 2second hit, then a solid 4-5 puffs would get you a coffee sized caffeine rush. Overdosage would be too easy and you could probably get yourself in a world of hurt this way.
That's what I was getting at.
 
Wow I'm hesitant to admit I have vaped quite a bit of the high voltage juice line and I'd like to add the flavors are quite tasty. My favorite was probably Resistor which is like a Carmel espresso flavor. I will say you can definitely tell it's got caffeine in it although I don't know how much. What I found was that I chain vaped it like crazy until I was speed talking like a half crazed maniac .
I haven't vaped any recently and thanks to the posts here I will stay away from it. I simply never considered the possibility of it being harmful. I appreciate the posts, truly.

As for the flavor they have with melatonin in it... It tastes very good and the 2 times I vaped it, I fell asleep darn near mid vape.
I got knocked the ##%^ out !
 

spookiewon

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So I got a free bottle of juice from my local vape shop for being part of the 5 star rewards program that they all use around here, anyway while I was in the shop a guy came in and asked for some blueberry creme juice with 6mg and 20 percent caffeine. I was blown away, and asked wtf you can vape caffeine? And he says he's a truck driver and vapes it so he doesnt have to drink coffee and use the restroom as frequently. So anyway he gets the bottle made and before walking out asks me if I want to try some, so I was like sure, he has it in a kanger subtank on a local vape shop "special" (read crappy) mech box with a .15 coil (which i didnt even know they made) and I take two big lung hits of it and Boom, I am truly fucked up. So much caf that im shaking and feeling unwell.

Do people casually vape this stuff? Are there any inherent risks?

Most any drug can be delivered via mucus membranes, which is what vaping does. The nicotine is primarily absorbed through the mucus membranes in the mouth, not the lungs.

Caffeine is roughly equal to nicotine in it's risks. so you can see, 20% is a LOT. 24mg nicotine juice is 0.24% nicotine.

Things aren't absorbed well when you swallow them, which is why 56mg caffeine in a cup of coffee doesn't hit very hard. Absorbtion is bad, and the liver filters a lot out before it hits the bloodstream. I'd call 20% nicotine for mucus membrane absorption dangerous. 0.24%, OTOH, seems pretty safe.
 

spookiewon

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The idea is really rather pointless, as nicotine is a far stronger stimulant than caffeine.
If you use 0mg, add a bit of nicotine.
If you use nicotine, up it slightly.
That will have more of an effect than adding caffeine, and will not come with any unknown side effects.

Nicotine is pretty similar to caffeine in stimulant activity, actually. Nicotine and caffeine are pretty similar in most respects, though most people find nicotines's effects at high doses less...disagreeable.
 

spookiewon

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this brings up an interesting point and something the medical and scientific community could look into.

We already are taking some medications and even the flu vaccinie through inhalation, why couldnt we just vape things that are also good for us. Get your daily dose of vitamins in your vape, or take your antibiotics while vaping. Just to be clear I am being serious. I mean think about it why do we just have to put bad things into our bodies, or things we have no clue how really safe they are. Lets mix our medicines and vitamins directly into our vapes. I can see it now the all new blue pill in vape form.

Now I am not suggestiig everyone go do this, I am suggesting the medical and scientific communities should research this as a possibility

I've always said we will, at some point, administer lots of medications this way. Medications are more effectively delivered via mucus membranes than by ingestion. Smaller doses are more effective.

I think this resonated with me so long ago because I don't vape because I'm quitting smoking. I vape because there are a couple studies have shown nicotine to be sometimes effective for nerve pain, and I have central pain syndrome. Vaping nicotine has reduced my need for fentanyl and oxycodone. I think vaping might be a very effective way to deliver pain medications.
 

gbalkam

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Most any drug can be delivered via mucus membranes, which is what vaping does. The nicotine is primarily absorbed through the mucus membranes in the mouth, not the lungs.

Caffeine is roughly equal to nicotine in it's risks. so you can see, 20% is a LOT. 24mg nicotine juice is 0.24% nicotine.

Things aren't absorbed well when you swallow them, which is why 56mg caffeine in a cup of coffee doesn't hit very hard. Absorbtion is bad, and the liver filters a lot out before it hits the bloodstream. I'd call 20% nicotine for mucus membrane absorption dangerous. 0.24%, OTOH, seems pretty safe.
I see a lot of cross over here. MG? ML? Gram? Not the same guys. MilliLiter= 1/1000th of a liter. There are 200 tsp in 1 liter. (1tsp = 5ml). Now a "cup" of coffee is aprox 6oz. (187.5 ml) With me so far? 1ml of water weighs 1 gram. (1000gram per kilogram or 5grams of water per tsp) *water is the universal conversion* Now.. that said.. 1mg = 1/1000th of a gram. OR if you convert to liquid 1/1000th of 1 ml. So as stated earlier.. 54MG of caffeine in 187.5 ml of coffee. (this is aprox since the calculations are based on water) means your coffee is actually 0.03% caffeine.

Now if you are trying to stay awake, and drink 4 cups of coffee per hour, for 2 hours. You figure how many ml of ejuice you vape per hour. Then make that 0.12% caffeine. or roughly 12mg per ml. So in 1L VG+flav+nicotine+pg you would want 1200mg or 1.2 grams of caffeine.

Now, the problem is this.. not 100% of what you inhale in vape actually gets into your lungs and not nearly 100% of what does get into your lungs stays there. So if we say... 10% stays in your lungs and 90% is exhaled. (you will have to look up the ACTUAL amounts.. im just using this for the math) you would need to multiply your 1.2gr/L by 10.. 12gr per liter. Now I use a dripper, and drip 10 drops every 30-60 minutes. So to get in my 4 cups of coffee I MUST vape 1ml (20 drops) per hour. Now if i only vape 10 drops per hour.. I have to double the caffeine again.. 2.4grams per 1000ml. Now 1000ml = 20 50ml bottles. Of which i use 2 to 3 per week.

Now according to http://www.caffeineinformer.com/death-by-caffeine
LETHAL DOSAGE
After 92.1 cups of Brewed Coffee, you'd be pushing up daisies. (based on 220lb man)
and that is 4968mg caffeine or almost 5grams per day. In other words.. you would have to vape over 2l or 40x 50ml bottles of juice in ONE day to come close to that amount if you used 2.4g per 1000ml. Needless to say, even if you put 10 times that amount in.. or 24g per 1000ml.. that is still vaping 4x50ml bottles in a day. You MIGHT do that if you used a theatrical fog machine and locked yourself in a closet.


Now, Im not recommending chain vaping e-juice with caffeine, but as a quick pick me up or to puff on in a tank while driving, or to stay awake an extra couple hours.. I doubt vaping a couple ml per day would kill ya.

IMPORTANT: All this is just converting ml to mg to gram to liters. To show you not to panic when talking about mg vs ml. If you add caffeine to your e-juice.. get your own calculation from that website i posted per your body weight, and start low and adjust your way up until you get the desired "awakeness" in a 1 hour period, per volume (mls) of ejuice. If you vape 1/2ml per hour adjust accordingly, if you vape 1ml per hour.. again adjust accordingly.

As you can see.. 2.4g or even 24g in 1000ml is FAR from a paste.
I'll probably start mixing mine at 1/8th gram per 50ml of (100ml vg+pg+flav+nicotine) and adjust from there. That way, I can double the caffeine simply by adding more.. or lessen it, by adding more of the ejuice component.
In other words.. if i vape for 15 minutes and start feeling my hair grow.. its time to switch to the 0 caffeine juice and cut my caffeine mix down more.

At any rate, start low according to what is comfortable for you and go from there, and use small dosages to regulate how much you intake. You want to stay awake.. but you don't want to feel your hair growing either.

And of course.. the only SURE way to know the difference between ingesting caffeine or inhaling it, just like nicotine from cigarettes, is with a blood content test.

By the way.. look into any known problems with inhaling caffeine vs ingesting it. I really don't know of any, since it is getting into your blood stream one way or another.. but i sure as hell wouldn't do lines of it like snorting pills or whatever.

See also: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/eagle-energy-vapor-caffeine_us_55c8c514e4b0f1cbf1e5a202
 
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Whiskey

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Date of last post prior, almost a year ago, just sayin..................
 

Kimtexas1026

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I have tried a brand that the local B&M sells. I want to say it is "HIGH VOLTAGE". The juice is supposed to be infused with caffeine. I'm no chemist but it didn't do squat for me. The flavor however was great ( honeydew melon ). They also carried a flavor that was supposed be calumny and promoted sleep.


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I've tried High Voltage too & didn't notice any caffeine boost of any kind. Would've been awesome if I had. LOL But coffee doesn't affect me much either, so I was hoping vaping it would've offered a better pick-me-up. I did try High Voltage's melatonin juice (for sleep) & it did pretty good. Although it was kind of "herbal" tasting so I only tried it a time or 2. I love the idea of vaping things that are good for you, like vitamins. Although I think there definitely needs to be more research than there is so far. I've heard certain vitamins shouldn't be vaped/heated because they will lose their effectiveness. So if they find a way around that, I'd be interested in stuff like that. But for now, I'll stick with regular e-juice. :)
 

gbalkam

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I had considered making some ejuice with caffeine, but on further research, the risks out weighed the benefits. Caffeine actually has more dangerous side effects than nicotine does. What I found was, vaping it could lead to getting to large a dose to quickly. Where to much nicotine causes you to need to take a nap for a bit, caffeine can raise your heart rate (for example) which could complicate any pre-existing medical conditions. Better to just buy a Keurig coffee maker and set it up beside your desk. LOL... (Thanks wifey for the Xmas pressie). *Funny thing about it is, it will pay for itself in under a year, when you figure in the amount of old coffee that got wasted*
Anyway, although I recommend against using caffeine in your ejuice, if you do decide to, keep careful track of how much you are using, and if you find your heart racing, head ache, or any other symptoms, stop for awhile.

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/caffeine-side-effects.html will provide extra information.
 

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