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Nichrome ruined me
- Thread starter jamieg71
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Not sure I want to know how you know what a smashed asshole tastes like, but I guess to each their own
T
Taver13
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touche good sir....toucheNot sure I want to know how you know what a smashed asshole tastes like, but I guess to each their own
Bag of smashed assholes. That is funny. I ordered my first batch of nichrome. Some 22,30, and 34 guAge. Gonna try some more complex build. The 22 is to see the flavor difference with kanthal 22
Actually if you were looking to do a flavor comparison, you should have got 26 nichrome. 22ga nichrome wire is about the equivalent in resistance of 17-18ga kanthal
Well I have tried a couple of straight NiChrome builds and didnt care for the taste. But I know I have a nickle allergy and that could be the issue. I do have my Troll setup with a twisted 24 one strand Kanthal the other nichrome. At 7 wraps dual coil it reads .2 ohms and has amazing flavor. The thing I like the most is how fast it gets up to temp.
Explain please
Nichrome wire has different resistance as same gauge of kanthal. basically, 22 ga kanthal has about the same resistance as 26 ga nichrome. It's a lot hotter than kanthal. Trying to compare a 22ga kanthal build to a 22ga nichrome build is pointless because if you use 22ga nichrome it's about the same as 18ga kanthal. Here's a build on a Doge I did this morning with 22ga nichrome...
22 ga kanthal wouldnt be anywhere near that low with same number of wraps.
I have like this on Magma RDA: My Coil: ⌀2mm (0.51mm x 7 x 2)
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T
Taver13
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LMFAOLet's leave my ex girlfriends outta this, OK?
Sorry to hear that man :/
Jai Haze
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I'd have to agree, very very rarely will I use kantal unless I'm doing a coilporn shot then maybe, as far as use is concerned I do not enjoy kanthal at all
Thumbs up for nichrome here.
Kanthal A-1 builds an aluminum oxide layer with twice the melting point of the wire itself. Designed to be a heating element (Kanthal) and so the purpose of the alumina insulation, a thermally conductive ceramic (think baking pan). Any ceramic you all know that imparts a taste? I don't.
Build to optimize the output of the wire without overheating it to form accretion hot zones that give off foul flavor (most won't notice) and you have one hell of a vaporizer. Done right to insulate properly and form a stable closed circuit and you would see a significant production increase for any rated Kanthal resistance (not more resistance, just increased production).
I'm flavor sensitive and at risk. Don't want to spoil anyone's party if they want to play with oxides overheating.
Good luck all.
Build to optimize the output of the wire without overheating it to form accretion hot zones that give off foul flavor (most won't notice) and you have one hell of a vaporizer. Done right to insulate properly and form a stable closed circuit and you would see a significant production increase for any rated Kanthal resistance (not more resistance, just increased production).
I'm flavor sensitive and at risk. Don't want to spoil anyone's party if they want to play with oxides overheating.
Good luck all.
Haadkoe
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I'm wondering if the perceived improvement in flavor when using nichrome has anything to do with the increased surface area of a nichrome coil vs a kanthal one of the same resistance? Is that what's going on here, or am I way off?
No bro. The fatter the tire, the more it grips the road. Thicker gauge, more contact surface. More contact surface, more vapor production. Thicker wire, less resistance. Less resistance, more current (flow). Hey you draw more root beer outta the straw, you're gonna get more flavor.
Folks often don't compare things correctly.
Good luck.
Haadkoe
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From steam engine:
Kanthal a1, .20 ohm, 22ga, 2.5 mandrel, 80.77mm2 coil surface area
Nichrome80, .20ohm, 22ga, 2.5 mandrel, 110.7mm2 coil surface area
What am I missing?
Edit: I should have reread the thread. With Heat flux and capacity taken into consideration, the two builds I referenced would be quite different to vape, so not the best comparisons. I'll give it more thought later; time for work.
Kanthal a1, .20 ohm, 22ga, 2.5 mandrel, 80.77mm2 coil surface area
Nichrome80, .20ohm, 22ga, 2.5 mandrel, 110.7mm2 coil surface area
What am I missing?
Edit: I should have reread the thread. With Heat flux and capacity taken into consideration, the two builds I referenced would be quite different to vape, so not the best comparisons. I'll give it more thought later; time for work.
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@Haadkoe
A link!
You obviously know how to do comparisons.(But more complete specs soo we could see whatcha doin'.)
K-A1, 22 AWG, 4/3, Ø=2.5 mm, LL=5mm =0.20Ω, SA= 80.7mm2
NiC, 22 AWG, 4/3, Ø=2.5 mm, LL=5mm =0.20Ω, SA= 110.7mm2
Since wire cross-section is same (0.644mm), it is an odd result.
TEMCO's published Ø is (0.64262) for KA1/NiC(60).
Interesting pick up @Haadkoe. We'd need to know the source/spec for wire you're holdin' to narrow this down.
Would seem an internal anomaly with S-E. Tripped over a couple more for winds I'm researching.
Good luck!
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Not a fan of nickel oxide. Doesn't have the same properties. Kanthal's neutral to taste once properly oxidized which is what tension winding accomplishes.
Good luck.
jamieg71
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Please explain exactly how nickel oxide is formed during the use of nichrome wire...Not a fan of nickel oxide. Doesn't have the same properties. Kanthal's neutral to taste once properly oxidized which is what tension winding accomplishes.
Good luck.
jamieg71
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Edit- Reason I ask is that it was my understanding that nichrome when heated forms chromium oxide. Although, the circumstances in which this is true, I don't believe to be relative to vaping. Unless maybe your pumping straight O2 onto the coil while heating it with an oxyacetylene torch. But what do I know?
You're correct. Sorry. That's what I meant. Had nickel on my mind as I detect the taste of it.
Thx and good luck.
jamieg71
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You know its funny, I see people say they "taste" the wire regarding nichrome. I don't get that. I wonder how much variance in quality there is amongst the nichrome coming from different vendors. I would suggest finding a better source if the wire you are using is imparting a substantial taste.You're correct. Sorry. That's what I meant. Had nickel on my mind as I detect the taste of it.
Thx and good luck.
I have only once, had a coil that had a distinct taste, it was the coils that came with a Big Dripper clone. Never again have I used the coils that came with an atty.
Since switching to Nichrome80, I couldn't possibly go back to kanthal. To get the equivalent ohms that I like to vape at, it takes 3-5 fewer wraps. That's a lot less surface area, and less flavor by what seams to be an order of magnitude.
To each his own though, vaping is subjective. BTW, one can use the "tension" method when wrapping nichrome just like with kanthal. In my experience, it's completely unnecessary due to the softer more pliable nature of the wire.
I agree taste is subjective. I'm flavor sensitive. And some metals have a distinctive flavor attribute for me. Not a big loss as I'm not usually talkin' about my own preferences. Me, like you, I go well outside most boundaries. But prolly 2/3's or more users on any forum could benefit from the effect of a 25W vape @ 17.5W, 1.2-1.8Ω with the factors in play of a tensioned m.c., a very mainstream simple wind. I think that's valuable and sends them in the direction of exploration towards all the other variations we enjoy…once they have that predictable efficient standard. Vaping doesn't suck then.
A NiCr contact coil and oxidized t.m.c. don't exhibit the same electrical or thermal behavior. The latter running cooler with more uniform thermal distribution, true. And lacking alumina insulation contacting NiC winds must have a greater heat output, as you suggest, just as unoxidized Kanthal does too. A constant criticism of t.m.c's that they're too hot. For tank and clearo use NiC is problematical without resorting to NR wire. So it is an advanced user solution for rebuilding.
Think Kanger really finally nailed it by giving us a tank with the design attributes to accommodate both a warm diffusive standard vape and the potential for superb vapor output density (with the appropriate build design)…and the airflow for both. And yeah that does include NiCr fans.
If total heat output is your pref jam's, hey I'm not buckin' anybody's likes.
Just out of curiosity…what happens to the guy/gal who would end up bein' a tootie puffer if left to their own devices if all we ever put in their hands is the Vivi Nova equiv of an open wind or Claptons?
Just sayin'.
p.s. Sorry for the delayed edit.
A NiCr contact coil and oxidized t.m.c. don't exhibit the same electrical or thermal behavior. The latter running cooler with more uniform thermal distribution, true. And lacking alumina insulation contacting NiC winds must have a greater heat output, as you suggest, just as unoxidized Kanthal does too. A constant criticism of t.m.c's that they're too hot. For tank and clearo use NiC is problematical without resorting to NR wire. So it is an advanced user solution for rebuilding.
Think Kanger really finally nailed it by giving us a tank with the design attributes to accommodate both a warm diffusive standard vape and the potential for superb vapor output density (with the appropriate build design)…and the airflow for both. And yeah that does include NiCr fans.
If total heat output is your pref jam's, hey I'm not buckin' anybody's likes.
Just out of curiosity…what happens to the guy/gal who would end up bein' a tootie puffer if left to their own devices if all we ever put in their hands is the Vivi Nova equiv of an open wind or Claptons?
Just sayin'.
p.s. Sorry for the delayed edit.
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Ya, I've known about nichrome for quite a while now and have been terribly interested in trying it out, but the one thing stopping me from doing so is the fact that like no one carries it, smh
I've checked at least two dozen b&m's in Los Angeles and none of them carry it, hell at least half of them didn't even know wtf I was talking about lol
On a side not, it's incredibly irritating how common it is for LA Vape shops to be owned and operated by people who just seem to be trying to cash in on the trendiness of vaping and are not truly passionate and as a result not properly informed on everything from products on the market to even how to safely build rba's. The only factor that gives me comfort is the fact that these ignoble and unreputable businesses often don't do as well as those that are actually in it for the love of vaping (i.e. they're actually real vapers that are passionate about it) and as a result are forced to close their doors before the first year in business has culminated.
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Some people confuse the passion for success with that of being of service and value. With the latter you get the former. Anyone can build a mousetrap; but, you need to be a skier to sell skis. Common problem in this biz you describe, the swarm to trendiness. Superlatives and suspension of disbelief prevail. Why many of us are deterred from the meaningful contributions and enjoyment. Try the next best thing for sure.
Good luck.
Grab a small spool of whatever you want to try out from lightning vape, free shipping.
I'm in West LA and yeah, most of the stores around here have just the basics for rba supplies and mostly non rebuildable stuff... at exorbitant prices but real estate around here isn't cheap so understandable I guess.
Or if your close to W. LA, hit me up, I have a ton of different wire types and sizes.
I'm in West LA and yeah, most of the stores around here have just the basics for rba supplies and mostly non rebuildable stuff... at exorbitant prices but real estate around here isn't cheap so understandable I guess.
Or if your close to W. LA, hit me up, I have a ton of different wire types and sizes.
I swear by my a dual nichrome 24g for an all-day dense, flavorful vape. I mostly like that its responsiveness allows me keep the ohms up on my mech. I find that a .3 dual 24g nichrome build has a comparable ramp time to a .18 24g kanthal build. Not only is this much, much easier on my batteries, but it adds more surface area and thus more flavor.
I still prefer kanthal for more elaborate flavor builds, though. Lately I've been getting pretty bangin flavor out of parallels with multiple gauges of kanthal. I haven't been able to match the flavor I get from them with nicrome yet. I think it has something to do with the heating properties of nichrome. Kanthal is a slow-burner, and sometimes that alone can bring out notes in your juice that don't manifest with a faster coil. I also find that nichrome is just too hot for me when I start trying to incorporate it into larger builds. It doesn't do as well in super-sub-ohm builds for that reason, imho. I do like it as a clapton core, though.
I haven't given it due diligence yet, so we'll see.
I still prefer kanthal for more elaborate flavor builds, though. Lately I've been getting pretty bangin flavor out of parallels with multiple gauges of kanthal. I haven't been able to match the flavor I get from them with nicrome yet. I think it has something to do with the heating properties of nichrome. Kanthal is a slow-burner, and sometimes that alone can bring out notes in your juice that don't manifest with a faster coil. I also find that nichrome is just too hot for me when I start trying to incorporate it into larger builds. It doesn't do as well in super-sub-ohm builds for that reason, imho. I do like it as a clapton core, though.
I haven't given it due diligence yet, so we'll see.
Using http://www.steam-engine.org, I worked it out to 27g. Comes up .04 under when I try to calculate a .6 around a 2mm driver, whereas 6 wraps of 26g around a 2mm driver comes up to .6 on the nose. With 28g nichrome, you'd have to take a wrap out to hit .57. No matter how you shake it, you are adding a good bit of heat and losing a good chunk of surface area. It's peak temp is gonna be about 33% hotter and it will heat up almost twice as quickly.I am using single coils at about .5- .6 ohms made from kanthal 26g. What Gauge of NiC80 would I be wanting to get, from those in the know, to approximate the same number of wraps as Kanthal?
You can probably find 27 gauge out there, though one less wrap of 28g will give you similar resistance. You'd be losing surface area coming down from the single 26g kanthal. It might be too hot, the flavor/vapor will not be as good. A 26g single is already pretty snappy and warm. The heat and speed boost you'd see from dropping down to a thinner gauge of nichrome isn't worth the compromise.
I think you'll get better performance using 26g nichrome and just adding a wrap or two to balance out the resistance. Nichrome heats up much faster than kanthal does, so nothing is lost by adding a wrap or two over what you'd do with kanthal. It'll just give you a nice flavor and vapor boost. An 8-wrap .6 26g nichrome will heat up similarly to a 6-wrap 26g kanthal.
You're a good writer rz. Put the build details out there and that's a good thing. I disagree on Kanthal ramp up being so definitive. There just isn't that much of a res diff. What many (not saying you) are seeing is the effect of incomplete circuits in bare wire or touching (contact) surfaces which are shorts. It's anomalous behavior. Kanthal is made to be oxidized. Why I researched wire stress relationships to thermal output, the potential of strain to stabilize symmetry and developed the tension microcoil. If you've never built one or read up on approaches to electrical oxidation with one…you'd be likin' your K much more!
A tensioned m.c. twisted-lead dual parallel is one of the fastest firing coil designs I've put out there. The bright harshness of the high output of the contact density (less wire height mass relative to contact surface) is muted by the optimized electron flow. The twisted leads stabilize internal strain and the wires initial contact symmetry. Less possibility of gaps and shorting from heat expansion deformation.
Holler back if ya want. Good luck!
View attachment 19743 View attachment 19744 View attachment 19742
You're a good writer rz. Put the build details out there and that's a good thing. I disagree on Kanthal ramp up being so definitive. There just isn't that much of a res diff. What many (not saying you) are seeing is the effect of incomplete circuits in bare wire or touching (contact) surfaces which are shorts. It's anomalous behavior or the very nature of a standard wind (concentration at center). Kanthal is made to be oxidized. Why I researched wire stress relationships to thermal output, the potential of strain to stabilize symmetry and developed the tension microcoil. If you've never built one or read up on approaches to electrical oxidation with one…you'd be likin' your K much more!
A tensioned m.c. twisted-lead dual parallel is one of the fastest firing coil designs I've put out there. The bright harshness in the high output of the contact density (less wire height mass relative to contact surface) is muted by the optimized electron flow. The twisted leads stabilize internal strain and the wires initial contact symmetry. Less possibility of gaps and shorting from heat expansion deformation. Heat to wick is where it's at and proof's in the pic. Stable temp distribution.
Holler back if ya want.
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[/QUOTE]You're a good writer rz. Put the build details out there and that's a good thing. I disagree on Kanthal ramp up being so definitive. There just isn't that much of a res diff. What many (not saying you) are seeing is the effect of incomplete circuits in bare wire or touching (contact) surfaces which are shorts. It's anomalous behavior or the very nature of a standard wind (concentration at center). Kanthal is made to be oxidized. Why I researched wire stress relationships to thermal output, the potential of strain to stabilize symmetry and developed the tension microcoil. If you've never built one or read up on approaches to electrical oxidation with one…you'd be likin' your K much more!
A tensioned m.c. twisted-lead dual parallel is one of the fastest firing coil designs I've put out there. The bright harshness in the high output of the contact density (less wire height mass relative to contact surface) is muted by the optimized electron flow. The twisted leads stabilize internal strain and the wires initial contact symmetry. Less possibility of gaps and shorting from heat expansion deformation. Heat to wick is where it's at and proof's in the pic. Stable temp distribution.
Holler back if ya want.
Dude you're fucking brilliant, I'll give you that and it would be great to ask you to explain things in way the average stiff could grasp it, because I think you have alot they'd appreciate knowing.
Thanks for the nod. Try my best to not get too techie 'cause many say keep it short. And when I just talk and give examples gotta deal with the TL/DR's <shrug> Can't please everyone bro. Standing offer to help anyone directly that just wants to get the vape on with some straight up kitchen physics. Good luck!
Haha, I'm flattered. I simply enjoy writing. As with all things I enjoy doing, I do it a lot, which I tend to hope shows in the quality of my efforts. The quality of my information, however, is not always up to snuff. I accept this about myself. I like being proven wrong because it presents a possible learning opportunity.You're a good writer rz. Put the build details out there and that's a good thing. I disagree on Kanthal ramp up being so definitive. There just isn't that much of a res diff. What many (not saying you) are seeing is the effect of incomplete circuits in bare wire or touching (contact) surfaces which are shorts. It's anomalous behavior or the very nature of a standard wind (concentration at center). Kanthal is made to be oxidized. Why I researched wire stress relationships to thermal output, the potential of strain to stabilize symmetry and developed the tension microcoil. If you've never built one or read up on approaches to electrical oxidation with one…you'd be likin' your K much more!
A tensioned m.c. twisted-lead dual parallel is one of the fastest firing coil designs I've put out there. The bright harshness in the high output of the contact density (less wire height mass relative to contact surface) is muted by the optimized electron flow. The twisted leads stabilize internal strain and the wires initial contact symmetry. Less possibility of gaps and shorting from heat expansion deformation. Heat to wick is where it's at and proof's in the pic. Stable temp distribution.
Holler back if ya want.
You've got a nice brain yourself! I appreciate the info. I've been looking over the posts you link to in your blog and trying to take it in. However, I learn better by doing (it helps get the critical thinking gears churning,) and will no doubt have questions for you when I begin to experiment with these tensioned, twisted-lead dual parallels of yours.
Ya, but do you have nichrome though??
Wait, are you trying to say that nichrome doesn't ramp up faster than kanthal? Because if that's the case I'm going to have to definitely disagree with you...although you could be saying something completely different and I just misunderstood, in which case: my mistakeYou're a good writer rz. Put the build details out there and that's a good thing. I disagree on Kanthal ramp up being so definitive. There just isn't that much of a res diff. What many (not saying you) are seeing is the effect of incomplete circuits in bare wire or touching (contact) surfaces which are shorts. It's anomalous behavior. Kanthal is made to be oxidized. Why I researched wire stress relationships to thermal output, the potential of strain to stabilize symmetry and developed the tension microcoil. If you've never built one or read up on approaches to electrical oxidation with one…you'd be likin' your K much more!
A tensioned m.c. twisted-lead dual parallel is one of the fastest firing coil designs I've put out there. The bright harshness of the high output of the contact density (less wire height mass relative to contact surface) is muted by the optimized electron flow. The twisted leads stabilize internal strain and the wires initial contact symmetry. Less possibility of gaps and shorting from heat expansion deformation.
Holler back if ya want. Good luck!
View attachment 19743 View attachment 19744 View attachment 19742
Hey Sahs…not exactly, but that a properly oxidized t.m.c. behaves much like a wire of lower resistance. A contact coil with gaps in oxidation or imperfect, inconsistent oxidation or outright gaps as many made by coilers do will go hot…and very quickly. It's the appearance of performance however. Using strain to optimize contact you achieve the same effect with far less thermal loss to air. And that includes ramp up time from my observations. You see, the discussion is really about how hot we can get a coil to deliver that heat to what's being wicked. Heat air and you're way past vaporizing anything with that energy. More watts than flow and its a waste. Nice effect tho.
Yep low res will give you the heat capacity to throw some watts with your build; but It's uniformity of heat delivery that gives us vapor density. We can always diffuse by a variety of means with choice of device, air flow, drip tip porting if needed or even draw style. But you gotta have vaporization. High power is not the only way. But here, show ya what the above build I spec'd for the Subtank does at 8 secs…
Six secs will getcha the output I posted elsewhere. And it's all about getting the power on the wick…surface contact area (ratio to power). More than enough at redic low power (well, for most of us LOL).
In other words, to come full circle, ramp up time for a properly oxidized and complete circuit with Kanthal is not an issue. Quick ramp up time for hotter low res builds that overpower don't necessarily get us the vape.
Good luck.
Hey Mac I saw super X posting some photos of twisted wire TMC...does this work or does the twisted wire keep the coil from having full contact, and creating that AO coating you were talking about.Hey Sahs…not exactly, but that a properly oxidized t.m.c. behaves much like a wire of lower resistance. A contact coil with gaps in oxidation or imperfect, inconsistent oxidation or outright gaps as many made by coilers do will go hot…and very quickly. It's the appearance of performance however. Using strain to optimize contact you achieve the same effect with far less thermal loss to air. And that includes ramp up time from my observations. You see, the discussion is really about how hot we can get a coil to deliver that heat to what's being wicked. Heat air and you're way past vaporizing anything with that energy. More watts than flow and its a waste. Nice effect tho.
Yep low res will give you the heat capacity to throw some watts with your build; but It's uniformity of heat delivery that gives us vapor density. We can always diffuse by a variety of means with choice of device, air flow, drip tip porting if needed or even draw style. But you gotta have vaporization. High power is not the only way. But here, show ya what the above build I spec'd for the Subtank does at 8 secs…
Six secs will getcha the output I posted elsewhere. And it's all about getting the power on the wick…surface contact area (ratio to power). More than enough at redic low power (well, for most of us LOL).
In other words, to come full circle, ramp up time for a properly oxidized and complete circuit with Kanthal is not an issue. Quick ramp up time for hotter low res builds that overpower don't necessarily get us the vape.
Good luck.
Short answer: Yes! You can use strain to tighten up both twained wire pitch and the coil wind itself. If done with the goal of good symmetry tension can aid achieving a matched wind with better turn-to-turn adhesion.
All that 1st year and more after quitting stinkies I was testing tensioned winds and "how-to" of building to stabilize strain I was quietly vaping twister's. Main goal for tensioned was to get new vapers there quickly and that means the straight 1.8-2.2Ω reliably. Still like t/p's but there's nothing you can get from multi-wire that you can't achieve with fat straight wire and strain. And in most cases better contact area. Still, there are some juices I like that fly right with twisted's and I'm still at it tho prefer the twisted lead parallel's posted above. Man they throw a lot of power on the juice. But TLP's perform well in a tight wattage range. Don't find them as variable as straight wire either. The tighter expectation requires more precision overall. You're optimizing contact surface area. Think race car and where talkin' in a similar vein.
Well over a year ago I anticipated larger diameter coils and tanks for them. Complained bitterly about the limitations of the typical RTA on ECF's Protank thread where I'd hung my shingle. Testing on the ZNA30 I posted a couple of big bore T/P's which were unremarkable in performance. Lot of power even at 30W but nothin' like I said can't be bettered with straight wire.
So the answer is YES! Understand, strain is in all winds. You can tension twisted pair coils into effective adhesion and tight enough to achieve reasonably uniform oxidation. Downside, the twist pitch must be fairly consistent and your tensioned wind must likewise be very symmetrical or they won't oxidize in sync. One or the other is more likely to get ahead or behind. If so, the performance suffers. It will never be a true tensioned microcoil…lacking a full contact oxidation. Some gaps in the twained wire itself remain. As I've posted on ECF, I get fewer than half of these T/P's right. The ones that do will work reasonably well as a matched pair and then exhibit the uniform lighting/firing behavior that regular t.m.c.'s do. So well worth it as I said, in some situations. To explain, some juices can work better in some atomizers. Not all work well with t/p's.
Tip: Cut single coil lengths of wire. Keep tabs on resulting pitch (turns/cm) so you can gain consistency. Straighten and measure tailings you cut off at install and you'll be able to arrive at a precise value for element resistance.
With TP wire turned on power hand drills doing single coil twists limits the variation in pitch end to end, rather than just doing a long run of wire. This helps when tension winding twisted pairs quite a bit by contributing to the symmetry. But not enough to brag I can get half of 'em right. Wish I could.
So wish you luck there pv. I do like multi-wire and enjoy the challenge. Just wish I had more time for them. Too much gear bro to get to it all. Wish I could be a bit more like supe with the squonks. I vape everything from Protank (Mega's these days) to 100W+ configs. Can't get enough of this stuff.
All that 1st year and more after quitting stinkies I was testing tensioned winds and "how-to" of building to stabilize strain I was quietly vaping twister's. Main goal for tensioned was to get new vapers there quickly and that means the straight 1.8-2.2Ω reliably. Still like t/p's but there's nothing you can get from multi-wire that you can't achieve with fat straight wire and strain. And in most cases better contact area. Still, there are some juices I like that fly right with twisted's and I'm still at it tho prefer the twisted lead parallel's posted above. Man they throw a lot of power on the juice. But TLP's perform well in a tight wattage range. Don't find them as variable as straight wire either. The tighter expectation requires more precision overall. You're optimizing contact surface area. Think race car and where talkin' in a similar vein.
Well over a year ago I anticipated larger diameter coils and tanks for them. Complained bitterly about the limitations of the typical RTA on ECF's Protank thread where I'd hung my shingle. Testing on the ZNA30 I posted a couple of big bore T/P's which were unremarkable in performance. Lot of power even at 30W but nothin' like I said can't be bettered with straight wire.
So the answer is YES! Understand, strain is in all winds. You can tension twisted pair coils into effective adhesion and tight enough to achieve reasonably uniform oxidation. Downside, the twist pitch must be fairly consistent and your tensioned wind must likewise be very symmetrical or they won't oxidize in sync. One or the other is more likely to get ahead or behind. If so, the performance suffers. It will never be a true tensioned microcoil…lacking a full contact oxidation. Some gaps in the twained wire itself remain. As I've posted on ECF, I get fewer than half of these T/P's right. The ones that do will work reasonably well as a matched pair and then exhibit the uniform lighting/firing behavior that regular t.m.c.'s do. So well worth it as I said, in some situations. To explain, some juices can work better in some atomizers. Not all work well with t/p's.
Tip: Cut single coil lengths of wire. Keep tabs on resulting pitch (turns/cm) so you can gain consistency. Straighten and measure tailings you cut off at install and you'll be able to arrive at a precise value for element resistance.
With TP wire turned on power hand drills doing single coil twists limits the variation in pitch end to end, rather than just doing a long run of wire. This helps when tension winding twisted pairs quite a bit by contributing to the symmetry. But not enough to brag I can get half of 'em right. Wish I could.
So wish you luck there pv. I do like multi-wire and enjoy the challenge. Just wish I had more time for them. Too much gear bro to get to it all. Wish I could be a bit more like supe with the squonks. I vape everything from Protank (Mega's these days) to 100W+ configs. Can't get enough of this stuff.
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I have used a dual 22g core for a fused Clapton which came in at 0.15ohms wrapped in 30g really quick ramp up but a bit hot single coil only.quite a hot build but flavour on point.
I am enticed by all of this. I need advice. I want to try out this nichrome 80. I normally build with 26 gauge Kanthal, dual coil, 5 turns, which specs out between .32 and .35, every time. What gauge of nichrome 80 would you suggest to achieve the same results? {perhaps with more turns}
I have no problem with ramp up time, but if it ramped up quicker, that would be even better. Thanks in advance.
I have no problem with ramp up time, but if it ramped up quicker, that would be even better. Thanks in advance.
I am enticed by all of this. I need advice. I want to try out this nichrome 80. I normally build with 26 gauge Kanthal, dual coil, 5 turns, which specs out between .32 and .35, every time. What gauge of nichrome 80 would you suggest to achieve the same results? {perhaps with more turns}
I have no problem with ramp up time, but if it ramped up quicker, that would be even better. Thanks in advance.
By your handle it would seem you''d be unwilling to sacrifice flavor for vapor. K-A1 build's a more effective alumina layer. Superbly if you wind with the appropriate strain into contact. Strongly recommend this experiment if your Kanthal is wound as a t.m.c. and you vape both side by side at your great temp spec (I get there with 25 awg for a tad more surface area). Do report back on vapor flavor/quality/density. Pic's would be a treat.
Best of luck jim.
Rather than repeating myself as one of the few who've talked about alumina, I'd prefer to note…
The dearth of information on VU about alumina, an alloy developed a century ago, reveals more than my courteous nature allows me to explain here.
Kanthal is an alumina exuding ferric wire type specifically adapted for resistance wire. The popular adoption of Kanthal and its properties led me to consider quitting and succeed after 47 years. I can't imagine a more beneficial contribution to vaping than this singular advent (Kanthal) other than a furtherance of knowledge on its simple effectiveness and safe practical use.
The established and most supported benchmark for vaporizing elements is Kanthal.
What fascinates me is the facility with which Kanthal and it's optimal platform (mechanicals) have been displaced by producers and retailers to exclude it with a comparatively little explanation as to merits. How and why have we been so readily redirected to raw horsepower as the solution rather than efficient use of resistance?
It's for others I suppose to argue for the universality or superiority of alternatives. Several years back you would have seen a far broader discussion and interest. Today the complexity of alt wire technologies make an appreciation of electrical fundamentals irrelevant and increasingly difficult for the novice vaper. We more and more are encouraged to assume those who provide vape goods know what works and what's good for us.
Seems to me as a former smoker, I fell for that once.
Good luck jim.
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