Would like your input for something I am working on.

Nicoroshi · Jul 13, 2014

Yep, I want to know what you think.

What things do you specifically look for in a VW/VV box mod?

I asked myself this very question for a project I am working on but would like your input as well so I can make this thing the best it can be.
There were a few things about the box mods I own that could use improvement IMHO.

What I have so far:
Needs to fire .2 to 3 ohm coils (no more having a sub ohm build that won't work on my box mod)
Needs to fire 5-50 watts (20 is nice, and 30 is nice also but 50 is kicking some ass!)
Needs to run on a single 18650 battery (VTC4 or VTC5)
Would like the ability to run in mechanical mod mode (straight battery to atty with wattage set by your coil's resistance)
Gotta have a spring loaded 510 connection (so ALL my attys will sit flush regardless of the length of the 510 on them).
Clicky 'Hana' style fire button (buttons are subjective so if you have a different style you like better I would love to hear about it)
Fire button in countersink finger well to protect from accidental firing.
22.5mm Juice well (should this be 23mm????)
Back panel held on by magnets (or may do a sliding door but needs to be easy to open to change battery WITHOUT TOOLS!)
Built in charger/ pass through is a must.
Charging chip held in place by mechanical means (screws) as well as hot glue (no more worry about charging chip coming loose due to charger heat).
About the size of a pack of cigarettes (I am not into holding a brick to vape. Are you?).
Box constructed out of some nice wood, and finished smooth with rounded back, and front corners so it feels good in the hand without sharp corners digging into the palm.
Screen on left side for easy viewing by a right handed person (I am right handed but want to hear from the leftys out there too. Can you get by with the screen on the left side?).
Fires with one click out of sleep mode (this drives me batty with my CANA mod, and my DNA20 Fasttech mod double clicking to wake then fire is a major pain in my backside).
Witness hole for charger led.(Another thing that drives me nuts. If there is an led to tell you charging state shouldn't you be able to see it when the micro USB is plugged in?).

Please let me know if there is anything more that you as the vaping community would add in addition to what's listed above that would make my creation the 'cat's meow' of box mods.
Thanks

Wolfstone5 · Jul 15, 2014

It sounds like you have all your bases covered. It's just the small details like what kind of exotic woods you want to consider. I'm a guitar player and I've had some beautiful acoustic instruments. I've encountered striped ebony, blood wood, cocobolo and koa (to name a few). There are also pre-made inlay work that you can use that are easy to incorporate into your design. I'm also not a huge fan of the small tactile switches on the Hana Modz. I used to build mods a while back and I always liked the large metal horn style, military grade buttons. They may not be recessed but they're more comfortable to use over a long period of time. You can always lock your device or turn it off. I recently bought a Tatroe Atlas 50 watt box mod. It uses the SX350 chip. It has all of the technical functionality that you're looking for including the bypass mode. For the $235 that I spent, I wish that it had a better 510 connector and a magnetic door! It does have a rather large metal button that's easy to press and the USB has an LED charge indicator. Good luck and post some pictures when you're done...

Cessnapix · Jul 15, 2014

Nicoroshi · Jul 15, 2014

Thanks for your input Wolfstone, and Cessnapix.
That is exactly the chip I have in mind (the SX350).
I picked up a few a while back to play with, and am most impressed with their performance, and battery life with a VTC5.
Digging the ability to have preset wattages, and the bypass mode. Also wasn't sure if i would like the 'tilt to adjust thing' but have found it very quick, and easy to use. I do recommend however not having a full juice well when adjusting with an RDA attached.
Larger buttons are easier to work with but require more space to install. Not sure if willing to add more to the height, and remove countersunk button design for a larger button. I'll have to debate that one.
Bottom feed is a good design idea for adding juice without a doubt but again one runs afoul of size when adding a bottle to the interior.
What I am attempting is to keep the size about the same as a pack a cigarettes while having the regulated power from 5-50 watts in a pleasing to the eye, and hand design.
Current design is with sliding back panel (I tried magnets but door wasn't secure enough for my taste when pulling out of my pocket).
Dimensions are 3.5" tall, 2.25" wide, and 1.125" deep (just a touch larger than a pack of smokes).
As for wood....
This is what I just picked up>>>>

Reminds me of clouds

Some interesting developments under way on the home front.
I promise a picture when I have it complete.
Until then here's a teaser (please excuse the pocket fuzzies at the bottom of the screen)>>>>

Cessnapix · Jul 15, 2014

Love that wood, curly maple or some type of burl?

Nicoroshi · Jul 15, 2014

Quilted maple

Scuba-Matt · Jul 17, 2014

Nice choice of wood. Some burl elm would look killer too.

Hobby Kid · Jul 17, 2014

After reading your post I picked up a couple of regulated devices to watch what it is I actually do. First I reach for the fire button and test how comfortable it is to use and whether it offers the ability for me to vape the mod in various preferred positions. Then the power adjust buttons. Are they conveniently placed and easy to use. I'd also say that if a device doesn't have a long battery life then I won't buy it anymore. Neither will I if it limits the type of atty I can use

UncleRJ · Jul 17, 2014

I would like on of those "Touch" switches that activate when your flesh completes the circuit.

For the right hand left hand display have the ability to flip it or have an accelerometer (sp) or whatever it is called to turn the screen based on the way it is held.

And perhaps a 510/eGo connector as well as a nice drip well with plenty of access to airflow.

Other than the above, I got Nuthin!

Nicoroshi · Jul 17, 2014

You are being heard, and appreciated.
Changing the button to a stainless steel domed 16mm, and forgoing the countersink for better ergonomics, and increased fire positions (index, middle, thumb).
I agree that a good, and comfortable easy to activate fire button is a must, and I will admit that the Hana style BB button falls sadly short of that IMHO.
As for power adjust buttons with the SX350 (the chip I am using) there isn't any unless added later but honestly not needed with the gravity sensor in that chip, and the (user) preset wattage settings.
I was playing with one of my prototypes today, and was able to change between vaping at 18.5, 30, 40, and 50 watts in a couple seconds (between changes). Again I am impressed with how easy it is to do without changing your 'fire' grip with that chip.
I am with you HobbyKid on the limiting of attys that some fixed 510 mods offer. Drives me nuts too, and that's why I am using a spring loaded 510 that has the positive lead directly connected to the atty contact (current doesn't travel through the spring).
Every atty I have tried sits flush although I do not have any that are 23mm so still debating the size of the drip well between 22mm, and 23mm.
Do you use 23mm attys?
Battery life is a tough one.
I have kicked around a dual 18650 design but cannot get past the brick like ergonomics of it.
On that one I would rather have a comfortable to hold, and use mod, and carry either a charging pack to use in pass through mode in my pocket or carry an extra battery with the ability to change the one in the device quickly, and easily without tools.
UncleRJ
The touch switch is a neat idea, and I have seen it incorporated on a few recent designs. I believe I will pass on that one though. Trying to simplify, and let the beauty of the wood come through rather than add more detracting buttons to the outside of the mod.
They sell 510/Ego adapters you know. Would be a different project to produce one with a spring loaded pin (I am unaware of any commercially available at the moment).
That is something I will keep in mind though.
Drip well....... I agree. A must.
Air flow available......I agree with that also.
Thanks for the input, and please keep it coming.

As for other wood options that is certainly in my mind, and I have a good source of quality AAAAA, figured cherry, claro walnut, cedar, myrtlewood, and madrone.
The hardness of maple lends itself to the design better than the softer, and more open grain woods though so will probably do curly, and flame maple before I venture into other species.
I was thinking of doing the design in lexan though. Once it's in the CNC only the cut depth, tool choice, and feed rate changes to mill out of pretty much anything.

Cessnapix · Jul 17, 2014

I ordered one of these yesterday as well as another kind. Is this what you are thinking about?

Hobby Kid · Jul 17, 2014

Nicoroshi said:
......
Every atty I have tried sits flush although I do not have any that are 23mm so still debating the size of the drip well between 22mm, and 23mm.
Do you use 23mm attys?
......

I just checked mine. 22mm. Kayfuns TOBH and Stillare are what I'm mainly using atm. But things come and go in trends.

It sounds like you're making one mod to rule them all

Wouldn't you prefer to offer a range?

Cessnapix · Jul 17, 2014

Hobby Kid said:
I......................................................................................
...................................
It sounds like you're making one mod to rule them all Wouldn't you prefer to offer a range?

Not sure myself if he is talking about making one for himself or producing them to sell?

Hobby Kid · Jul 17, 2014

Cessnapix said:
Not sure myself if he is talking about making one for himself or producing them to sell?

Ohhh of course. I just naturally presumed. I ordered some of those 510s you just posted btw

Nicoroshi · Jul 18, 2014

I am (to be bluntly honest) doing both.
I want a nice mod that I will enjoy myself but am also in the process of starting a business (when licensing is finalized, and there is a product I will be applying for vendor status). But for now I am just a modder that's seeking to refine the design of something he's building for his own use.
I have many mods both mechanical, and VV/VW, and I know what I like. I have heard the gripes about some of the mods on the market via reviews, and from friends (as well as my own gripes) but also would like to hear about what the community would like to see available in the near future.
I do have a vision, and a design but it's the little things that can make a mod a pleasure to use or a chore.
Who better to ask for input than other vapers like myself?
As for 'one mod to rule them all' I doubt that exists. We are as diverse as the world population, and everyone has different ideas on the 'perfect vape'.
I get that.
In fact I am digging on the bottom feeder idea mentioned earlier in this thread. I know that having to unscrew the cap of a bottle of juice (as well as carrying that bottle) to drip is sometimes laborious.
That idea I believe has merit, and warrants further examination.
A bottom feeding VV/VW device in a easy to handle, and use device appeals to me.

The Fatdaddy 510's are really nice, and although not what I am using they are very similar in design.
You will be happy with them.

Cessnapix · Jul 18, 2014

Hobby Kid · Jul 18, 2014

but it's the little things that can make a mod a pleasure to use or a chore.

Good soldering tends to be treated as one of those little things that's overlooked.

Nicoroshi · Jul 18, 2014

I will Cessnapix!
And I agree Hobby Kid. Nothing worse than having to redo something on a device you bought because it was rushed where it was built, and didn't stick.

Crocky · Jul 19, 2014

Will be watching this thread closely. At this point some of my thoughts have already been expressed.

havok333 · Jul 20, 2014

MAYBE 26650 battery instead of dual 18650? Might still be a bit larger than you were wanting to aim for but would give a little more vape time and more amperage.

Some type of grip maybe?

I'm reaching because all the good stuff has already been mentioned.

Personally, if you pull off an exotic wood, 50+W bottom feeder, I'll be all kinds of in!

mxethey · Jul 23, 2014

imho there just isn't enough box mods with atty on the side (like the vtr but even better)
You could adopt all those lovely things you already said and make it fit upto 23mm tanks on the side
The feel and size is just perfect and discreet when taking it out with you to the pub/bar/holiday etc.

Nicoroshi · Jul 23, 2014

I plan on revisiting this design of mine in the future
Issue with that is the size of the sx350 chip. The one pictured below was a DNA 30 mod
I redesigned the box around the sx350 chip and had to loose the step in the box due to size.

mxethey said:
imho there just isn't enough box mods with atty on the side (like the vtr but even better)
You could adopt all those lovely things you already said and make it fit upto 23mm tanks on the side
The feel and size is just perfect and discreet when taking it out with you to the pub/bar/holiday etc.

havok333 · Jul 23, 2014

Nicoroshi said:
I plan on revisiting this design of mine in the future
Issue with that is the size of the sx350 chip. The one pictured below was a DNA 30 mod
I redesigned the box around the sx350 chip and had to loose the step in the box due to size.

That looks really nice! Love what you did with the firing and +/- buttons.

Nicoroshi · Jul 27, 2014

Would you rather see a logo, and serial number on the outside or the inside of the box?
Been debating this one.
The wood is so beautiful that some may feel that a cnc cut relief logo and serial on the outside detracts from the beauty of the mod. Others may like to have the serial, and logo on the outside and feel that it looks pretty cool.
I would like to hear what you think.

Update on the mods I am building :
Changed out the 510 to one with a 22mm metal top from the 17mm ones I had (still spring loaded with direct + contact to pin. No power through spring).
Cut a juice well into the top at 22.23mm diameter.
Changed out clicky BB style button, and ball end milled countersink for .090 straight countersunk 12mm stainless steel domed button rated for 1 million clicks.
Decided on going with a friction fit sliding door in the back for battery access.
CNC cutting 1/4" radius on all 4 vertical sides.
Included wooden electronics cover under siding back panel for a clean look to the interior.
Connecting micro USB chip through included holes with countersunk screws through the bottom of the mod.
Been playing with different finishes, and like hand rubbed true oils the best for look but will use poly clear coat over the top for heat, moisture, and dent/ scratch resistance.
Been vaping the snot out of the first prototype, and I have to say I am most impressed with the SX350 chip.
It does throttle when vaping at 50 watts, and battery charge is around 3.4volts or less but still tries to kick the 50 watts it's set at, and the only thing I notice is it vapes like 40-45 watts when the battery is that low. No rattlesnaking. Just can take a slightly longer pull.

Teasers>>>
WIP box prototypes (cut all by hand on the mill. I had a little slip on the one on the right at the top) before sanding, rounding of corners or finishing.

The wood (scrap piece) with true oil finish (with the clear poly top coat(s) it will be slightly more glossy). That piece of wood is flat BTW.

For any moderators reading:
I am in the process of opening a business creating hand crafted rare wooden VW box mods currently with the SX350 at their core (more, and different variants are on the design table).
I have read the requirements for vendor status, and since I have not been in business for 6 months or more I do not qualify (yet). I am totally cool with a link back to vapingunderground on my website, and will have a coupon code 'vapingunderground' in place from the time I actually open up.
If this thread needs to be moved or I am doing anything 'taboo' by seeking input from the community please let me know, and I will correct anything that needs to be done a different way. Thank you.

VapingHippie · Jul 27, 2014

I want one, what are we looking at price wise?

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Nicoroshi · Jul 27, 2014

Not currently ready to sell anything (awaiting business license, retail license as well as working on website, and scheduling the other 10,000 things I need to get done) but it's coming as fast as I can go.

I have run some initial numbers on cost/time to produce them but nothing concrete as of yet so I will withhold any guesses at final retail price I have until I know the exact cost, and time it takes to produce them.

Thank you for your interest, and where would you want the logo, and serial number? Inside under sliding battery cover (on electronics cover plate) or on the outside under the screen?

VapingHippie · Jul 27, 2014

Under the battery cover.

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havok333 · Jul 27, 2014

Nicoroshi said:
Thank you for your interest, and where would you want the logo, and serial number? Inside under sliding battery cover (on electronics cover plate) or on the outside under the screen?

I'd rather see serial number under the battery cover as well.

Nicoroshi · Jul 27, 2014

Thanks for your input VapingHippie, and havok333. How about the logo (would look like my current avatar at about 1/2" - 3/4" square, and cnc milled or branded into the wood)?

Nicoroshi · Jul 28, 2014

Sorry....double post

havok333 · Jul 28, 2014

Nicoroshi said:
Thanks for your input VapingHippie, and havok333. How about the logo (would look like my current avatar at about 1/2" - 3/4" square, and cnc milled or branded into the wood)?

Branded into the wood sounds like it would look very nice. Have you tried this out yet and/or have pics?

Nicoroshi · Jul 28, 2014

havok333 said:
Branded into the wood sounds like it would look very nice. Have you tried this out yet and/or have pics?

Actually......No.
I just sent the image file to my CNC guy as a matter of fact, and will probably go that route. I worry that the branding will bleed out and appear fuzzy as well as would be difficult to keep centered, and straight (would be done by hand) but I do know that electric brands are available with whatever graphic you can supply so I have to see what the added cost would be on the cnc route before a final decision is made (and see what one looks like done).

VapingHippie · Jul 28, 2014

Nicoroshi said:
Thanks for your input VapingHippie, and havok333. How about the logo (would look like my current avatar at about 1/2" - 3/4" square, and cnc milled or branded into the wood)?

Either way would look cool.

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Nicoroshi · Jul 30, 2014

Things are accelerating.
One last question:
Would you like to see wattage adjustment through both the menu tilt , and BB style buttons (yes both can work at the same time on the sx350) ?

VapingHippie · Jul 30, 2014

Yes

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havok333 · Jul 30, 2014

Sounds like a good option to me too

BUDKISS · Jul 31, 2014

I would say dual in line 18650's. Fire from 3 volts and up. Magnetic back. Larger screen.
Why limit to 50 watts when 100's are coming this month?

Nicoroshi · Jul 31, 2014

I hear ya BUDKISS, and I will share my thoughts on it with you in regards to what I am creating.

Dual 18650 in a wooden box mod feels like holding a brick (I know because I prototyped a design using dual 18650).
I also tried a magnetic back, and my personal feelings were it wasn't secure enough for my tastes (too easy to knock off IMHO).
Why only 50watts maximum? Because a single 18650 can power one at 50 watts, and although I will hit it at 50 from time to time I believe the 100 watt devices are more of a 'select few' request at this point in time. I also can hit it at 80 watts if I want to in bypass mode with a .2Ohm coil, and a single 18650 that can handle a minimum 20 watts. Why give up the ergonomics (size) of the device for another 20 watts that I would use rarely if at all?

It is possible that I will revisit the dual 18650 design in future offerings from my company, and also the 100 watt option. But currently refining the design around the use of a single 18650, and the YiHi SX350 chip mainly because of size.
As I stated earlier.....I highly doubt there is such a thing as 'one vape to rule them all' . Everyone will have a different idea of the 'Perfect vape'.
And that's alright

I have another question.
I plan on doing a natural wood finish using quilted,curly, and flame maple but am kicking around the idea of dyed wood as well (red, blue, charcoal, etc).
Like this>>>

What say you? Worth exploring, offering?

Vash · Aug 1, 2014

I think color is worth offering .I myself would prefer natural wood grain colors but color is nice to offer for those looking for something more flashy.

Good luck with your designs and future business

st_andrew · Aug 1, 2014

I'm a bit late to this discussion. Everything I can think of has been thought of. But I like the branding idea for the logo. I know its hard to get uniformity, but that's the good part. I like my mod to be a little different from the rest. It gives that custom, hand done feel. Also a sliding or magnetic backplate is a must with only one 18650, hate having to take out those itty bitty screws a couple times a day.

Also it sounds like your a great businessman by getting input before it goes out to the market. I wish other companies would think that way. I hope everything goes smoothly and wish you the best of luck and success in your endeavors.

VapingHippie · Aug 1, 2014

The blue one looks bad ass.

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Nicoroshi · Aug 2, 2014

Update:
Received larger (12mm) fire buttons today so completed mill work on version 11 prototypes.
The SX350 chips I have for these are without up/down wiring although the final product (version 12) will have BB style S.S. up/down buttons in a round countersinks below the fire button.
Here's the two prototype boxes rough sanded, and with mineral spirits wipe to remove dust before final sanding, and finish.
It will give a good idea of the look of the wood when completed (it will be slightly more glossy, and smoother from final sanding).
Last picture is a size comparison (mod is slightly thicker than a pack of nasties).

robtest · Aug 2, 2014

Looks good! I think your 50 watts and single 18650 are good places to start. I do like the blue and silver as options... I like the natural but would probably buy the blue... I am getting used to the tilt adjust on my sigelei 20w and Seven30, but still prefer the buttons...

Nicoroshi · Aug 2, 2014

The tilt is growing on me too, and loving the 5 presets that the sx350 provides but having the ability to do both tilt adjust in the menu, and up/down buttons I believe offers more to the end user than one or the other alone.
That's why I ordered my chips with up/down buttons prewired, and have added up/down buttons to the design in version 12.

Nicoroshi · Aug 3, 2014

Promised you pictures when I got some built.
So......Here ya go.
Version 11 prototypes.
Version 12 will be the same except have SS BB style up, and down buttons located in round countersinks below the fire button. A fingernail notch cut into the bottom of the sliding back panel for easy removal, dovetail on the top of the sliding door as well as the sides for a more secure fit (version 11 is flat on the top of the sliding door), and of course branded in logo (decided I liked the branding idea better than a cnc cut logo). I am thinking below the screen, and above the charging port for the logo/serial.
Let me know what you think

pic 5 510 and contersunk fire button.jpg

havok333 · Aug 3, 2014

Nicoroshi said:
Promised you pictures when I got some built.
So......Here ya go.
Version 11 prototypes.
Version 12 will be the same except have SS BB style up, and down buttons located in round countersinks below the fire button. A fingernail notch cut into the bottom of the sliding back panel for easy removal, dovetail on the top of the sliding door as well as the sides for a more secure fit (version 11 is flat on the top of the sliding door), and of course branded in logo (decided I liked the branding idea better than a cnc cut logo). I am thinking below the screen, and above the charging port for the logo/serial.
Let me know what you think
View attachment 3030 View attachment 3031 View attachment 3032 View attachment 3033 View attachment 3034 View attachment 3035

Looks really sharp!

Cessnapix · Aug 3, 2014

Love the natural look of the wood myself. I like that 510 connector with the floating center pin. Good job with the fit and finish. How is the placement of the switch ergonomically?

All that being said I love it! However it doesn't fit into my needs of an APV. I don't need that high wattage and would like a wooden bottom feeder with VW.
After seeing your design i don't know how to fit a bottom feed bottle in a 18650 with a charger and 50watt board!

I am not knocking your work whatsoever!
Nice job

Nicoroshi · Aug 3, 2014

Cessnapix said:
Love the natural look of the wood myself. I like that 510 connector with the floating center pin. Good job with the fit and finish. How is the placement of the switch ergonomically?

All that being said I love it! However it doesn't fit into my needs of an APV. I don't need that high wattage and would like a wooden bottom feeder with VW.
After seeing your design i don't know how to fit a bottom feed bottle in a 18650 with a charger and 50watt board!

I am not knocking your work whatsoever!
Nice job

The switch location is good IMHO
I can fire it with index finger tip, index second pad,thumb, and side of thumb with ease.
I am milling around ideas for a bottom feeder VW device per your earlier suggestions (I like that idea too).
With the sx350, 18650 battery and a container to hold juice I think the only way is to make it taller or wider to accommodate the increased parts.
Personally I would opt for taller rather than wider.
Going that direction potentially opens up space for a second 18650 if taken to aprox 7" in height with the same 1.125" depth and 2.25" width
That boarders on unwieldy at that height though

VapingHippie · Aug 3, 2014

Personally I wouldn't care if it had an internal tank or not since @ 50 Watts I'm more than likely going to be using a rda. The space that the tank takes up would be nice to have an extra battery.

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st_andrew · Aug 3, 2014

I am not much of a wood man (haha), but that might change now. I love box mods. But just haven't liked any that were wood. But yours is badass. I have seen a few production wood boxes but your prototype box puts them all to shame! Nice job.. Keep it up and people will be lining up to buy them.

Would like your input for something I am working on.

Brighton Boy

Will write reviews for Beer!

Brighton Boy

Brighton Boy

Brighton Boy

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