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Samsung says that sales of it's batteries for vaping is illegal.

Carambrda

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I said a year ago that all the nanny state bureaucrats have to do is ban the sale of individual cells to permanently cripple vaping as we've known it. Even IF the good folks at Molicell, or some other competent upstart were to seize the entrepreneurial moment and find a way to get us good "cells for vapers" in the vacuum left by the retreating OEMs, a simple ban would kill that too.

Harvested batteries will not replace our known good cells at decent prices. I have several laptop packs I've taken apart and who knows what these things are in here? I haven't found a pair yet that will even let a regulated mod start fully charged.

If somebody comes across a certain pack with great cells, there's no guarantee that they will be the ones in there the next time you buy one of those packs. Besides, if they make possessing unpacked round cell lithium ion batteries a crime, that point is moot too.

Like I say, I said starting a year ago somewhere here that BATTERIES will be the real war.

If they want to stop legal vaping, they ARE going to do it. That's not negative nay-saying. That's the reality of where we are, indeed have been for decades in this country. Let them "take care of you," and boy will they ever.
I disagree with your assertion that making possessing unpacked round cell lithium ion batteries a crime would render that point moot. Sure, it would create a black market where there isn't one. But it certainly wouldn't make loose cells inaccessible. It would just be utterly naive to think like that.

I mean, if the only vaping products available to be legally sold will be severely underpowered closed pod systems mass produced and monopolized by Big Tobacco, do you REALLY think people like me will stop vaping how they prefer to vape? Seriously? lol... just lol
 

Carambrda

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OK, I've seen people say they store them in fridges, freezers, half charged, full charged... WHAT is the safest method for long term storage, and how many answers will I receive?
Mooch is going to stream live on his personal YouTube channel later today, here:
You could ask him directly this way, but something tells me he will give you pretty much the exact same answer he's given to others who also asked this same exact question, like, already about a dozen or so times in the past. :D
 

Carambrda

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Why not create a mod with a click on battery pack ...similar to a drill (obviously 1 or 2 cells) but it’d be circuit board protected inside the pack...and doesn’t need to be sealed, batteries married the whole way through and less risky than lipo is

all they do inside drill packs

View attachment 156583
View attachment 156583
It's because the type of vapers who need that extra power don't like the added size and weight, that cumbersome clunkiness of a battery pack that needs to be BOTH physically protected with a robust shell AND electronically protected with a Battery Management System (BMS), AND both of these two forms of protection need to satisfy highly specific, strict, whole-industry standards for them to be able to obtain valid certification. Furthermore, the risks inherent of misusing/mishandling loose cells can be mitigated, sufficiently, by applying general rules of battery safety instead so, from that particular point of view, in fact it is fair to conclude these risks are overstated to the point of potato knives being too dangerous for anyone to be using them, as not everyone who walks the planet knows potato knives are sharp. Next thing you know, everyone in America will legally be forced to stay in a padded room wearing a flannel suit stuffed with pillows simply because some political agency deemed it necessary to demonstrate what constitutes TRUE freedom. :facepalm:
 

gsmit1

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The vast majority of vaping tech doesn't even use loose round cells anyway in the first place.
Vast majority? How do you figure?
I disagree with your assertion that making possessing unpacked round cell lithium ion batteries a crime would render that point moot. Sure, it would create a black market where there isn't one. But it certainly wouldn't make loose cells inaccessible. It would just be utterly naive to think like that.

I mean, if the only vaping products available to be legally sold will be severely underpowered closed pod systems mass produced and monopolized by Big Tobacco, do you REALLY think people like me will stop vaping how they prefer to vape? Seriously? lol... just lol
Nothing is inaccessible. :) I live in a city with black market.... everything. I'm not willing to trust my face to black market batteries. Nor am I wiling to become a criminal and navigate the risks involved there in order to keep vaping. I have enough to deal with already. I will not be the only American to make that assessment.
 

The Cromwell

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Why not create a mod with a click on battery pack ...similar to a drill (obviously 1 or 2 cells) but it’d be circuit board protected inside the pack...and doesn’t need to be sealed, batteries married the whole way through and less risky than lipo is

all they do inside drill packs

View attachment 156583
View attachment 156583
Was it innoken that made one where the battery pak slid on the side of the mod?
 

Jinx'd

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Vast majority? How do you figure?

Nothing is inaccessible. :) I live in a city with black market.... everything. I'm not willing to trust my face to black market batteries. Nor am I wiling to become a criminal and navigate the risks involved there in order to keep vaping. I have enough to deal with already. I will not be the only American to make that assessment.


juul's, pods.

we will get good reliable safe batteries. last resort, they will come from power tool battery packs.
 

gsmit1

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we will get good reliable safe batteries. last resort, they will come from power tool battery packs.
Maybe, but that would require dozens of packs being opened looking for the ones we need, clearly identifiable batteries being found therein, finding the ones we need and a high degree of certainty that those will be the same batteries in the packs from now on.

It would also mean people having to uninstall them from the packs which introduces possible safety issues in itself.

Somebody or somebodies would have to spend a ton of time and money digging through battery packs. I could foresee a list being compiled of which packs contain which batteries and then finding out later that those batteries are not always what's in those packs.

All in all a humongous hassle at absolute very best.
 

gsmit1

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The only way around some of that it would seem, would be for somebody to leak shipping or purchasing records telling us what batteries are going from where to where.
 

Jinx'd

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Maybe, but that would require dozens of packs being opened looking for the ones we need, clearly identifiable batteries being found therein, finding the ones we need and a high degree of certainty that those will be the same batteries in the packs from now on.

It would also mean people having to uninstall them from the packs which introduces possible safety issues in itself.

Somebody or somebodies would have to spend a ton of time and money digging through battery packs. I could foresee a list being compiled of which packs contain which batteries and then finding out later that those batteries are not always what's in those packs.

All in all a humongous hassle at absolute very best.

if i had to resort to that, i would start with that pack i showed. i have used, beat on, that pack in a drill and a impact driver. let me tell ya, those 2 tools put out some power, and that doesn't come from sissy batteries. now, that pack was like $45'ish when i bought it a few years ago. $45 for 5 batts is high, its still cheap compared to smokes. perhaps some day i will be one of those somebodies.
 

Carambrda

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Vast majority? How do you figure?
Juul?
Nothing is inaccessible. :) I live in a city with black market.... everything. I'm not willing to trust my face to black market batteries. Nor am I wiling to become a criminal and navigate the risks involved there in order to keep vaping. I have enough to deal with already. I will not be the only American to make that assessment.
But... I'm not an American, despite I sometimes vape on a Vaping American Made Products tube mech the engraving on which states that you can't be a pussy your whole life. :p (I think I know Prohibition didn't stop that many Americans from buying alcohol, and, I fail to see how a ban on loose cells would have a much different type of effect.)
 

gsmit1

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I think I know Prohibition didn't stop that many Americans from buying alcohol, and, I fail to see how a ban on loose cells would have a much different type of effect.
Even low quality bootleg alcohol didn't generally threaten anybody's life or physical well being. It just tasted bad. :rolleyes:

I did know you were from Belgium btw. Malinois and ring sport. :)
 

KingPin!

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Was it innoken that made one where the battery pak slid on the side of the mod?

not sure mate ...but we aren’t far off anyway plenty with clip in doors on mods anyway ...not a giant leap away to tap into it
 

nadalama

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So now I have a question, after reading this whole thread.

If my husband can determine what the charge level is of some of the batteries that are currently in my mods, the newer ones that is, can I store them for an extended period of time if I can get them to approximately 3.5V? In other words, they've been used a bit, but can I stop using them and store them safely for later if they're around 3.5V? Or will they just slowly discharge to the point that they can't be charged up again over time?

Does that same storage voltage level apply to 2x700 batteries and 26650 batteries, too?

In most ways I am not a dumb person, but I swear to you, I have this big empty spot in my brain when it comes to electricity. It is the most incomprehensible thing I've ever tried to wrap my mind around. Anyone who does have a good grasp of how it all works, I'm sure will think I'm a total dumbass, and I understand that. It is not for lack of trying. Believe me, I've been trying for years, to the point that hubbs really just refuses to talk to me about it any more. :sad:
 

KingPin!

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So now I have a question, after reading this whole thread.

If my husband can determine what the charge level is of some of the batteries that are currently in my mods, the newer ones that is, can I store them for an extended period of time if I can get them to approximately 3.5V? In other words, they've been used a bit, but can I stop using them and store them safely for later if they're around 3.5V? Or will they just slowly discharge to the point that they can't be charged up again over time?

Does that same storage voltage level apply to 2x700 batteries and 26650 batteries, too?

In most ways I am not a dumb person, but I swear to you, I have this big empty spot in my brain when it comes to electricity. It is the most incomprehensible thing I've ever tried to wrap my mind around. Anyone who does have a good grasp of how it all works, I'm sure will think I'm a total dumbass, and I understand that. It is not for lack of trying. Believe me, I've been trying for years, to the point that hubbs really just refuses to talk to me about it any more. :sad:

yeah 3.5V if you wanna store them for a long time ...that’s how they leave factory also, they will slowly lose their charge over time but it takes a long while ...just get them out every 6 months give them a small top up

think I read 10 years somewhere they’ll last ok like that...might be wrong on that though

if I know I’m not gonna be using a cell for a while I’ll drop it down halfway then store it that way...worse for it leaving in storage at full charge
 

nadalama

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yeah 3.5V if you wanna store them for a long time ...that’s how they leave factory also, they will slowly lose their charge over time but it takes a long while ...just get them out every 6 months give them a small top up

think I read 10 years somewhere they’ll last ok like that...might be wrong on that though

if I know I’m not gonna be using a cell for a while I’ll drop it down halfway then store it that way...worse for it leaving in storage at full charge

Ok, that helps me a lot. Thank you! I now have a plan that doesn't require me to spend any more money.
 

The Cromwell

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Ok, that helps me a lot. Thank you! I now have a plan that doesn't require me to spend any more money.

I still think that a battery stored for 5 years at 3.5 will have lost a noticeable amount of capacity.
But will likely still be usable. Storage at full charge will be a lot shorter lifespan I think.
I have some 3.5 yr old HG2's that got stored for about the last 2 years at full charge. Lost some capacity but still does more than a squonk bottle of juice so I still use em.
They were stored because they were paired cells and I quit using 2 battery mods.
the batteries the same age that I continued to use are pretty much shot though. But 4 years and more is not bad.

The lipo pak in my kindle lasted 10 years. Used daily.
Found another lipo pak and still going :)
 

Carambrda

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Ok, that helps me a lot. Thank you! I now have a plan that doesn't require me to spend any more money.
You might want to reconsider that. The typical round cells we use for vaping, even if they're held in storage under near-perfect storage conditions, they can still lose up to maybe about 2% of their initial capacity rating each year, and, once they've lost about 20% of their initial capacity rating, that's when you should say the time has probably come to retire them. (Initial capacity rating here means the capacity rating when they're still new, which will gradually deteriorate due to battery aging.) This is why Mooch keeps always repeating you're better off using them, like, put all of them in rotation just so each one of them will age, mainly as a result from being used, i.e. comparatively much less as a result from being not used so just sitting there going essentially to waste over a long period. Even though most of battery chargers that come with a feature enabling you to measure the capacity rating are fairly inaccurate (and some are more inaccurate than others...), this measurement can still be used as an indication. If you measure the capacity rating when the cell is still new, you can subtract 20% and use that as the bottom limit to indicate end of life.
 

5150sick

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I still think that "outside of a pack" can be used as a huge loophole.
How much extra would a junk plastic "pack" that the batteries slide in and out of cost?

The real question is do they really want people busting open their laptop batteries and drill packs?
Because that sure as hell isn't going to stop peoples faces from getting blown off.

There will be some slick lawyer that will just end up suing them when a vaper breaks open a pack to blow their teeth out.

They'll use the old 180 defense.
Where they use the exact opposite of the previous defense for their new defense.

"You took all the safe cells away so my client had to break open his laptop battery"
 

The Cromwell

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Mooch always says that there is nothing really safe about using LI cells for vaping.
We can only minimize the risk by using safe practices.
And they are not made for single cell use.
One ripped wrap or someone prying one out of a charger or mod with something metal and all kinds of excitement can happen. And that is not even including the stupid stuff some people do on mechs...
 

Carambrda

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Even if you don't use them outside a battery pack they still aren't safe. Laptops are catching on fire, cellphones explode... you don't hear a lot of complaints about that type stuff, do you?
 

The Cromwell

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Even if you don't use them outside a battery pack they still aren't safe. Laptops are catching on fire, cellphones explode... you don't hear a lot of complaints about that type stuff, do you?
Not for a while we have not.
Heck they have even brought down planes.

LI cells have too much energy in them to ever be totally safe.

But our society is addicted to them.
I recall when people were making mods out of altoid tins with 2 AA alkaline batteries in them.
 

gsmit1

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It has been estimated more than 10,000 Americans may have died during Prohibition, as a result from drinking tainted alcohol.
https://time.com/3665643/deadly-drinking
If I get a chance, I'll explain why the words "may have," the relative ease with which alcohol could be made or obtained and far less than 800 people a year in a population of 116,000,000, over 13 years makes this an apples and oranges comparison anyway. :)
 

Carambrda

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If I get a chance, I'll explain why the words "may have," the relative ease with which alcohol could be made or obtained and far less than 800 people a year in a population of 116,000,000, over 13 years makes this an apples and oranges comparison anyway. :)
What makes you think far more than 2,278 people a year may die from loose cells in a population of 330,393,544, over who knows how many years it will take before you start to get my point? :)
 

KingPin!

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You might want to reconsider that. The typical round cells we use for vaping, even if they're held in storage under near-perfect storage conditions, they can still lose up to maybe about 2% of their initial capacity rating each year, and, once they've lost about 20% of their initial capacity rating, that's when you should say the time has probably come to retire them. (Initial capacity rating here means the capacity rating when they're still new, which will gradually deteriorate due to battery aging.) This is why Mooch keeps always repeating you're better off using them, like, put all of them in rotation just so each one of them will age, mainly as a result from being used, i.e. comparatively much less as a result from being not used so just sitting there going essentially to waste over a long period. Even though most of battery chargers that come with a feature enabling you to measure the capacity rating are fairly inaccurate (and some are more inaccurate than others...), this measurement can still be used as an indication. If you measure the capacity rating when the cell is still new, you can subtract 20% and use that as the bottom limit to indicate end of life.

so that’s where I got the10 years then...although doesn’t take into account usage and charge cycles
 

gsmit1

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What makes you think far more than 2,278 people a year may die from loose cells in a population of 330,393,544, over who knows how many years it will take before you start to get my point? :)
You missed and are now making my point. (I think)
Stopping the free flow of an item that requires astronomically expensive, precise specialty manufacturing is far easier to accomplish than stopping the proliferation of alcoholic beverages which some people still make themselves to this day. And many times of high quality. In times past I have myself sampled home distilled grain and corn liquor made in the hills of Kentucky. Not to mention homemade beer and wine. NObody can produce lithium ion batteries at their residence.

There are a relative handful of companies worldwide that are capable of producing batteries that anybody should want to use for vaping. Fairly easy for them to control where their product is distributed.

There were thousands of sources for alcoholic beverages in the 1920s. Many (probably most) were not too concerned about where their product went and it was used the exact same way by everybody that ended up with it. There's only one design for beverages. You drink them. And regardless of who drinks them where, aside from some who drink too much of it, the result is the same.

Not so with batteries. They design them for one application and we use them for another. Politicians and their advisors may be lowlifes, but they are not stupid. They will certainly make this fact a selling point for their restrictions.

I'm saying that there is far more potential danger from batteries than there ever was, even from poorly made alcohol. That seems to be what you're saying above. There's also some evidence that intentionally tainted products played a role in whatever health issues may have been related to alcohol consumption during the prohibition era. The manufacturers of our batteries never do that. On top of all this, no actually hard numbers are available anyway, so who really knows?

For the reasons I've just given, the bottom line is that they CAN virtually kill the distribution of our batteries if they put their minds to it. With this much money at stake. They will. That was never possible with alcohol and it was spectacularly naive for anybody to ever believe it was.
 
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nadalama

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The conspiracy theorist in me is shaking her head, saying, I just don't see how this whole situation (meaning "The Trouble With Vaping") could have played out like it has, and continues to, without some BIG bigwig, somewhere, having his thumbs on all the players, moving them around at carefully pre-determined times.

A mystical being that controls everything in the universe could not have designed it better.

Taking one more step farther onto the plank....the coronavirus is part of it...

I'll take my meds now and go on to bed.
 

Jinx'd

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The conspiracy theorist in me is shaking her head, saying, I just don't see how this whole situation (meaning "The Trouble With Vaping") could have played out like it has, and continues to, without some BIG bigwig, somewhere, having his thumbs on all the players, moving them around at carefully pre-determined times.

A mystical being that controls everything in the universe could not have designed it better.

Taking one more step farther onto the plank....the coronavirus is part of it...

I'll take my meds now and go on to bed.

Soros
 

gsmit1

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The conspiracy theorist in me is shaking her head, saying, I just don't see how this whole situation (meaning "The Trouble With Vaping") could have played out like it has, and continues to, without some BIG bigwig, somewhere, having his thumbs on all the players, moving them around at carefully pre-determined times.

A mystical being that controls everything in the universe could not have designed it better.

Taking one more step farther onto the plank....the coronavirus is part of it...

I'll take my meds now and go on to bed.
:D:D:D:D
unnamed_cr.jpg
 

nadalama

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"unlawful"? In what country?

I've been thinking that all day. Did we forget that Samsung is part of the Congress of the United States?
 

The Cromwell

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"unlawful"? In what country?
yeah I believe they are pushing that. At least in the USA.

I would like to see regulations on LI cells simple ones like it being a felony to mislabel li cells as to their specifications.
or to knowingly sell or import for sale such such mislabelled cells.

Make Mooch the battery Czar.
 

eSMOKA

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Why not create a mod with a click on battery pack ...similar to a drill (obviously 1 or 2 cells) but it’d be circuit board protected inside the pack...and doesn’t need to be sealed, batteries married the whole way through and less risky than lipo is

all they do inside drill packs

View attachment 156583
View attachment 156583

Innokin Disrupter mod

IMG_6474_800x800__41168.1438100645.1280.1280__88994.1485465737.jpg


Didn't buy it then, won't buy it now.
 

nadalama

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Ok I have a probably-ignorant question. Remember I admitted I don't know jack about this.

Can these mods we use be converted to use a lipo cell?
 

eSMOKA

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I've been thinking that all day. Did we forget that Samsung is part of the Congress of the United States?

Even if they were part of Congress, as far as I know, they have never passed a law that makes it illegal for a consume rot purchase, possess or use a single Liion cell, as far as I know.

And if there is such a law, does that law also make it illegal to sell, possess or use a liion flashlight? Because last I checked, those flashlights are completely legal.

But I'm not a lawyer.
 

The Cromwell

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Ok I have a probably-ignorant question. Remember I admitted I don't know jack about this.

Can these mods we use be converted to use a lipo cell?
Short answer. No.
Long answer a few.
However Lipo cells are even more easily damaged and do spectacular things if abused.
 

eSMOKA

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yeah I believe they are pushing that. At least in the USA.

I can't see a law successfully passed that would make single cells illegal to sell or possess. Maybe OEM cells, but not consumer-labeled single cells.

Personally, as someone who rarely goes over 4 amps when I vape, I could use a Trusfire batt and be OK. :giggle:

I know that a lot of other vapers can't do that, just sayin', though.
 

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