Temp Control Issues

VinnySem · Nov 17, 2019

Hey gang, having an issue with my temp control builds. Not sure if it's my mods, or I've lost my building/wicking mojo.
I have 3 different attys on 3 DNA mods: a Hugsvape Lotus on a Paranormal DNA 250C, a Reload S RDA on a Rebel DNA75C, and a Reload X on a Drone DNA250C. All are built with different types of SS316L wire, the RDAs are wicked with rayon the Lotus has cotton. Resistance on each was measured when the coil is cold. I have the temps on each set to 440F, with the watts set appropriately to send right about 4 volts to the coil (used Steam Engine to figure that out). In the past, this would give me a nice warm, flavorful vape. Now, they're weak and minimal flavor. If I switch to Watts mode, and send the same amount of watts to the coil, I get a great vape. But I use temp control to avoid the dreaded dry hits on my squonk rigs.
I tried the Lotus on my old Hohm Slice, and aside from the mod being underpowered for the current build in the Lotus, it's a decent vape, cooler than desired because the Slice maxes out at 101W, but it's there.
I've tried fiddling with the DNA settings in Escribe, even upped the TCR to 110 which is way higher than recommended for SS316L it's still weak.
I've been blowing through rayon like crazy, thinking my wicking is either too tight or too loose.
I've been building for years and I'm at a loss trying to figure this out. If any experienced temp control builders have any similar experiences or tips, I'm all ears. Thanks for the help.

lordmage · Nov 17, 2019

well i usual escribe suggestions are to turn preheat off and the punch

these are my 316L material curves

also be sure that when you to measure cold ohms that it is done at current room temperature

this with a kylin M and Unity RTa served me well

also in my case i used replay and didn't use replay what i found was it (316L) behaved better with replay

to get it to where i liked it without replay

Also check your center pin and all contact points are tighten down just not over tight on the mod.
outside of that maybe the https://forum.evolvapor.com/ might help you further refine and get a vape your after

VinnySem · Nov 17, 2019

Thanks lordmage I'll give this a try.
Where did you get the temp curve? I used the file from Steam Engine.

lordmage said:
well i usual escribe suggestions are to turn preheat off and the punch
View attachment 149916
these are my 316L material curves
View attachment 149917

also be sure that when you to measure cold ohms that it is done at current room temperature

this with a kylin M and Unity RTa served me well

also in my case i used replay and didn't use replay what i found was it (316L) behaved better with replay

to get it to where i liked it without replay

Also check your center pin and all contact points are tighten down just not over tight on the mod.
outside of that maybe the https://forum.evolvapor.com/ might help you further refine and get a vape your after

Vape Fan · Nov 17, 2019

I've only had C DNA's. I just use Replay mode. You've tried it and don't like it? Or, manual settings are better?

lordmage · Nov 17, 2019

for me if i were to TC anything other than SS id would use a non replay mode.

The non replay mode gives you finer control over Temp and power.

Replay is more of a simple mans TC. where the Temp is usually set with escribe and power is dialed up to your liking and locked in.

SS likes this way of TC better for me. i can do both and i have for me replay loves SS,

Vape Fan · Nov 17, 2019

imo 316 is the only thing worth using for TC.
I vape 316L almost exclusively, and a little N80. Replay loves ss for me too.
I sometimes use just a couple simple settings if ss on non DNA. Temp/max wattage.

Theboss · Nov 17, 2019

Vape Fan said:
I vape 316L almost exclusively, and a little N80. Replay loves ss for me too.
I sometimes use just a couple simple settings if ss on non DNA. Temp/max wattage.

I love replay, but it's not exactly like temp control. You have much more control with TC

mreeveshp · Nov 17, 2019

What app or website are you using to give you that data, I've never seen that one before?

mreeveshp

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lordmage · Nov 17, 2019

mreeveshp said:
What app or website are you using to give you that data, I've never seen that one before?

mreeveshp

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk

OP is using https://www.steam-engine.org/ohm most likely to determine his Voltages from his resistance
Escribe is for Dna devices https://www.evolvapor.com/escribe such as a 75C and 250C

5150sick · Nov 17, 2019

The Profiles.zip file on here has a good 316L profile for escribe.

https://djlsbvapes.com/evolv-dna-75c/

Any of these links works for the DNA60, 75, 200, 250 as well as the C versions.

lordmage · Nov 18, 2019

5150sick said:
The Profiles.zip file on here has a good 316L profile for escribe.

https://djlsbvapes.com/evolv-dna-75c/

Any of these links works for the DNA60, 75, 200, 250 as well as the C versions.

View attachment 149925

might want to reach out try clicking on them. on my end there 404 gone.

VinnySem · Nov 18, 2019

So I think I figured out the problem. I've been using the Advanced Vape Supply recommended method to dry burning SS316L wire, by pulsing at 15-20w in short 1 second bursts without letting the coil glow, until the inner part of the coil is bluish, the next outer section of the coil is purplish, and the outer most portion of the coil is golden. While this doesn't affect the wire's resistance for power mode, my theory is it does something to it's accuracy in temp control mode. I put new builds in my RDAs, and instead of dry burning that way, I dry burned in TC mode at 500F. Then I wicked as I normally would, primed the coils, voila! Great warm flavorful vape.

lordmage · Nov 18, 2019

yeah any heat to a TC wire will affect the Cold setting. best case after wicking and soaking the coil is let it set for at least 30 minutes and take a new cold room setting.

marter · Nov 18, 2019

VinnySem said:
So I think I figured out the problem. I've been using the Advanced Vape Supply recommended method to dry burning SS316L wire, by pulsing at 15-20w in short 1 second bursts without letting the coil glow, until the inner part of the coil is bluish, the next outer section of the coil is purplish, and the outer most portion of the coil is golden. While this doesn't affect the wire's resistance for power mode, my theory is it does something to it's accuracy in temp control mode. I put new builds in my RDAs, and instead of dry burning that way, I dry burned in TC mode at 500F. Then I wicked as I normally would, primed the coils, voila! Great warm flavorful vape.

That's interesting, glad you found your problem. I've always used their recommendation of burning in SS coils at 15-20w but letting them slowly get to a red glow. I didn't know about the inner part of the coil bluish thing. Anyway, I always get good performance in TC from my AVS coils and wire. Hmm.

VinnySem · Nov 19, 2019

lordmage said:
yeah any heat to a TC wire will affect the Cold setting. best case after wicking and soaking the coil is let it set for at least 30 minutes and take a new cold room setting.

The measured resistance is not the issue. I measure the resistance before dry burning, and then dry burn, then wick & prime, then measure the resistance again, no change in resistance from before dry burning.
What I'm saying is, it seems that the method of dry burning somehow effects the TC performance of SS wire, how and why it affects it I do not know, but I have experienced the results. I don't know how to take any measurements of the wire characteristics such as TCR or temp/resistance curve before and after the dry burn, to analyze further.

lordmage · Nov 19, 2019

VinnySem said:
The measured resistance is not the issue. I measure the resistance before dry burning, and then dry burn, then wick & prime, then measure the resistance again, no change in resistance from before dry burning.
What I'm saying is, it seems that the method of dry burning somehow effects the TC performance of SS wire, how and why it affects it I do not know, but I have experienced the results. I don't know how to take any measurements of the wire characteristics such as TCR or temp/resistance curve before and after the dry burn, to analyze further.

most DNA devices are meant to take the measurement after it is setup and rested. even the current room temperature will affect the TC.
here is a nice long article on the whole thing https://www.ecigssa.co.za/guide-to-fine-tuning-temp-control-vaping.t18206/

Synphul · Nov 19, 2019

Seems odd. I don't use dna chips but have had decent luck with the omni chip and yihi chip. I don't baby my ss316L like most people suggest either. I mean I don't glow it up cherry like a torch, but I take it beyond coloring. Have never noticed adverse affects over babying it. I run water over the coils after glowing them to clean them, all the things people seem freaked about. Times I've run into tc issues are either wicking or when the coil's been in use several days and starting to get gunked up. Then it seems to lag in tc like the cotton's dry, but switching to wattage or voltage modes it fires through the gunk. That's usually when there's only 1/2 to a full day left before it's due for a good clean. I have had tc affected by room temps, usually in winter indoor vs outdoor but those are significant ambient temp shifts.

Some of my lesser tc performance comes from iffy chips, the drag2, the vandy vape swell. The swell does better than the drag but still a bit odd, weak and using funky tcr's (not the typical .00092).

VinnySem · Nov 20, 2019

I do not see this issue with my FSK-based Hohm Slice either. Only with my DNA mods, and on each of my DNA mods. Further note, I've redone all the builds in my atty's on my DNA mods, each with different types of SS316L wire from AVS, and only dry burned them in TC mode at 500F. Then let the coil cool for 30 minutes, remeasured the resistance, no change. Wicked and primed... great warm flavorful vape. I'm not sure if this is a correlation vs causation thing, but, this seems to be what's happening, so I'll stick to that dry burn method.

VinnySem · Jan 13, 2020

OK guys, sorry to spin this old-ish thread back up, but this was driving me bananas over the weekend. With 4 different mods (Paranormal 250C, Drone 250C, Hohm Slice, Steam Crave Hadron) and my resistance meter, my DNA mods consistently read the resistance lower than the other devices. I did a fresh build in one of my attys, and measured the resistance across all these devices. The meter, Hadron, and Slice all read the resistance exactly the same down to the hundredth. The two DNA mods, were also the same, down to the thousandth +- .001... but about .01 ohms lower than the other devices. Now, in power mode, this doesn't matter. But in temp control, it matters significantly. Vape comes out weak, cool, minimal flavor and vapor. Think the opposite of not measuring cold resistance.

In order to get the same experience with the same build, on the DNAs I have to adjust the resistance up slightly, to match what is read on my ohm meter.

So, in spite of my earlier hypothesis regarding dry burning method, it seems the issue is the resistance being read on my DNAs. Has anyone else ran into something similar? I've seen other posts on Evolv's forum regarding this, but there is less activity over there than here.

gsmit1 · Feb 12, 2020

Dare I?

THIS thread may have some gleanings for you. Mikepietro and punkindrublic KNOW what they are talkin about. I've seen numerous threads with both of these guys.

VinnySem · Feb 12, 2020

Thank you! Some high brained stuff in that thread and I only got to page 2 lol. I'll read through more thoroughly later on. But I'm thinking I need to get one of those copper gizmos to measure my mods' resistance. Might fix some of the issues I am having. All my DNAs read the coil resistance lower than my meter or my FSK mod ( they both match) my Hohm Slice gives me a real nice vape no matter the build.

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gsmit1 · Feb 12, 2020

I'm pretty sure that Lost Vape sets up the internal resistance on their mods. You can change that in Escribe, but shouldn't have to. I think I would trust the resistance reading in the Paranormal 250C.

dre · Feb 12, 2020

Every mod will be different in TC. They all have different internal resistance, how the board was soldered. Also every atty is diffrent and How tight your post screws will throw it off too... no Tc mod is super accurate. It's all just a guess since there is to many variables like I mentioned. Just adjust the temp to get the vape you like. If you want a good Tc vape get a dicodes mod and use the dicodes nife30 wire. It's the most consistent temp board I've used. I've used them all.

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gsmit1 · Feb 12, 2020

dre said:
If you want a good Tc vape get a dicodes mod

Ok, but you're not saying that there;'s no good TC vape without a Dicodes device?

dre · Feb 13, 2020

No I'm just saying using a dicodes board with the specific wire is just more consistent. Honestly just up the temp till you get the vape you like.

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dre · Feb 13, 2020

Dont view the temp as a definitive temperature. Evey mod, atty and build will be different. Just find the vape temp you like with that atty and build. Even the juice will change the vape. If there is more pg you'll most likely us less temp then a high vg. Pg vaporizes at lower temps.

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ShowerHead · Feb 18, 2020

VinnySem said:
So, in spite of my earlier hypothesis regarding dry burning method, it seems the issue is the resistance being read on my DNAs. Has anyone else ran into something similar? I've seen other posts on Evolv's forum regarding this, but there is less activity over there than here.

Yes, I have dealt with that since my first DNA chip. I never manually adjusted the resistance, I just adjusted the power/temp and all was happy.

VinnySem · Feb 18, 2020

So I recently got a Pulse X 90 watt BF squonk mod. I popped my Reload X on it, I previously had it on my Drone, was getting a fairly weak vape on it. Popped it on my Pulse, measured the resistance cold... set the temp... BOOM. Great warm vape, incredible flavor and vapor. I dug into the settings of the Pulse, and it has the TCR for SS316 at 110, much higher than the 88-92 that is often recommended for SS. On a lark, I went into Escribe and I set the TCR on my Drone to 110... what do you know. Great, warm, flavorful vape. I went and made the same change on my other DNA mods (Paranormal 250C and Therion BF), now all three are giving a great vape experience with every atty I throw on them. No tweaking of resistance, no cranked up power or temp settings.

Salva_J3 · Feb 19, 2020

VinnySem said:
So I recently got a Pulse X 90 watt BF squonk mod. I popped my Reload X on it, I previously had it on my Drone, was getting a fairly weak vape on it. Popped it on my Pulse, measured the resistance cold... set the temp... BOOM. Great warm vape, incredible flavor and vapor. I dug into the settings of the Pulse, and it has the TCR for SS316 at 110, much higher than the 88-92 that is often recommended for SS. On a lark, I went into Escribe and I set the TCR on my Drone to 110... what do you know. Great, warm, flavorful vape. I went and made the same change on my other DNA mods (Paranormal 250C and Therion BF), now all three are giving a great vape experience with every atty I throw on them. No tweaking of resistance, no cranked up power or temp settings.

SS316 or SS316L coils?

VinnySem · Feb 19, 2020

Salva_J3 said:
SS316 or SS316L coils?

SS316L

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Temp Control Issues

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