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Have coil builders gone quiet or

wheelie

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is it a dying trade? Couple years ago building coils were big and threads were busy. I did leave forums for awhile and when I came back a couple weeks ago the building section is totally dead. No Mod Envy or building on VU Live. Does it all have to do with deeming regulations? You can still build coils but selling them could be something different. Doesn't seem as much fun and interesting anymore. I never stopped building or will I ever. If I had to buy all my coils and juice I don't know if I could afford to vape. Things sure seem to have changed. CHEERS!
 

Huckleberried

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Things have definitely changed, deeming regs have a LOT to do with that. Everyone got smacked on the face, completely blindsided when Michigan started their flavor ban, then one state after another decided to join in. Granted, some of that has loosened up some, but with all the health scares of things that really don't have anything to do with vaping as we define it, morale also took a huge, heavy hit, too. I'm sorry for those that lost loved ones, I don't want to sound insensitive, but media played a big role and has a lot of folks too scared to try vaping as a means to quit smoking. The media labeled vaping as the angel of death, when we all know that it was black market products, illegal in many states, still, that was made with shit that will kill you.

As far as coil builders go, they're still active, but, like you, I don't see them around here as much. It's sad. I've always enjoyed lurking those threads. It's completely art. I'd love to see those guys come back to their footings, to where they started, and participate. They pop in from time to time, but I don't know where they are. I miss them, they used to be highly active all over the forum. Maybe we just need a new beginning with people that are new to it, all over again.

Mod Envy, yeah, I miss it too. People's lives go in different directions, so finding what works for everyone became more of a challenge. Those folks are still active in the vape community, though. Just in different ways. I miss VULive, myself. There were a couple shows I used to watch.

Now, I'll go into pods. OMG Pod people have taken over. Pods take away creativity and imagination from folks. Now, don't get me wrong, pods can absolutely get people off the smokes, but from our hobbyists viewpoint, pods killed the radio star. I won't go into Juul. Juul is the fucking devil. Pods do serve their purpose in the lineup, I use one for stealth purposes, myself, but there's no substitute for your favorite mod, topped with your fave tank/RTA/RDA, loaded with the juice of your choosing. You can't get that type of satisfaction from only using a pod, IMO. Too much more, as hobbyists, to stick to just those. We grew up differently.
 

nadalama

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Things have definitely changed, deeming regs have a LOT to do with that. Everyone got smacked on the face, completely blindsided when Michigan started their flavor ban, then one state after another decided to join in. Granted, some of that has loosened up some, but with all the health scares of things that really don't have anything to do with vaping as we define it, morale also took a huge, heavy hit, too. I'm sorry for those that lost loved ones, I don't want to sound insensitive, but media played a big role and has a lot of folks too scared to try vaping as a means to quit smoking. The media labeled vaping as the angel of death, when we all know that it was black market products, illegal in many states, still, that was made with shit that will kill you.

As far as coil builders go, they're still active, but, like you, I don't see them around here as much. It's sad. I've always enjoyed lurking those threads. It's completely art. I'd love to see those guys come back to their footings, to where they started, and participate. They pop in from time to time, but I don't know where they are. I miss them, they used to be highly active all over the forum. Maybe we just need a new beginning with people that are new to it, all over again.

Mod Envy, yeah, I miss it too. People's lives go in different directions, so finding what works for everyone became more of a challenge. Those folks are still active in the vape community, though. Just in different ways. I miss VULive, myself. There were a couple shows I used to watch.

Now, I'll go into pods. OMG Pod people have taken over. Pods take away creativity and imagination from folks. Now, don't get me wrong, pods can absolutely get people off the smokes, but from our hobbyists viewpoint, pods killed the radio star. I won't go into Juul. Juul is the fucking devil. Pods do serve their purpose in the lineup, I use one for stealth purposes, myself, but there's no substitute for your favorite mod, topped with your fave tank/RTA/RDA, loaded with the juice of your choosing. You can't get that type of satisfaction from only using a pod, IMO. Too much more, as hobbyists, to stick to just those. We grew up differently.

Well said.
 

wheelie

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Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I also have two pods for stealth. Vype Epods and I learned to refill and recoil. I am testing nicsalts in my old mechanicals with some Kayfun Lites. Tests are going very well. CHEERS!
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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Haven’t built in a while...had a large batch from my last session and I’m still getting through them

like Huck said we did have a wave a fresh builders coming through last year in the show us your builds thread so was pretty active, a lot of the active folks drifted off for a time, I’m sure it’ll come back to life at some point though
 

gopher_byrd

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is it a dying trade? Couple years ago building coils were big and threads were busy. I did leave forums for awhile and when I came back a couple weeks ago the building section is totally dead. No Mod Envy or building on VU Live. Does it all have to do with deeming regulations? You can still build coils but selling them could be something different. Doesn't seem as much fun and interesting anymore. I never stopped building or will I ever. If I had to buy all my coils and juice I don't know if I could afford to vape. Things sure seem to have changed. CHEERS!
Yeah the Post Your Builds thread used to be so active it was hard to keep up with. Nothing stopping you from posting your builds over there. Might even wake it up.
 

Wb80

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I too miss the post your builds being a busy thread. But i guess i stopped posting there as well. I still build but i got amazing coils from a few builders here and they last and last if taken care of. So now i build a few times a month rather than almost daily like b4.
 

Hype

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I too like the whole coil builder vibe , I still build because I like to . with the help here and trial and error , I have become better at it , also I cannot stand pods . My opinion and solely mine . I did find though that back in the day some of these coil builder types took themselves way too seriously . Yes it is an art form . Yes not everyone can do it . A millionaire you will never be , some of the wire creations people have put out are works of art no doubt , but we need to chill on the self importance . I have friends in the industry and at many shows met " coil builders " . I was warned about the type so I took it with a grain of salt . How the world turns . Life happens .....
 

f1r3b1rd

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Vaping tends to run in trends or fads. It's odd to watch. We are like a bunch of people.with add at a casino. Builders aren't gone, but I think with the way accessibility of prespun wire and the current political affairs of vaping, the spectarorship has maybe fallen a bit. Like was mentioned thing, start posting your builds...

If you post it, they will come.
 

Carambrda

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Member For 5 Years
The coils I've been using daily for the past 4 months are still going strong... it's one of those multiple reasons why I prefer to use Ni80 so, I only build a few times a year. I like art too, rainbow colored SS316L looks nice indeed, but everything has already been done before, and, most coil pics on IG are just pure marketing now so I only build for how it vapes, not for the bragging rights nor for the swag that has brought vaping almost to its knees─while still trying to make it look nice as a bonus.
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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I too like the whole coil builder vibe , I still build because I like to . with the help here and trial and error , I have become better at it , also I cannot stand pods . My opinion and solely mine . I did find though that back in the day some of these coil builder types took themselves way too seriously . Yes it is an art form . Yes not everyone can do it . A millionaire you will never be , some of the wire creations people have put out are works of art no doubt , but we need to chill on the self importance . I have friends in the industry and at many shows met " coil builders " . I was warned about the type so I took it with a grain of salt . How the world turns . Life happens .....

never really got that vibe here ...encouragement was the order of the day, trying to help peeps achieve the next this or that build with tips etc

Occasionally thread would de-rail but everyone wanted to respect that common goal and keep it that way, was just friendly banter most days :)
 
I'll page through 'post your builds' and other topics. Depends on my 'watch-a-gonna-do-today' attitude, but I mainly use single,parallel or fused claptons. I spend most of my times researching new vape products and DIY vape juice.
 

Anibird

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Member For 2 Years
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I still don't build yet although I vape squonks. I'm afraid I'll mess it up so I've bought a few coils from members here. They should last me until I get up my courage.
 

Carambrda

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Member For 5 Years
They're both wrong (a vast oversimplification). If I'll ever be up to getting into why anymore, now is not that time.
I didn't say m.terk was right about everything he said in the video. Just that the type of swag he was referring to, which really has brought vaping almost to its knees, is not on my list of reasons why I do coil builds... despite more than a few vapers did find my claim very difficult to believe so IMO this whole negativity thing, even when it's not warranted, also is one key part of the reason why so many builders have gone quiet.
 

Carambrda

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Member For 5 Years
I still don't build yet although I vape squonks. I'm afraid I'll mess it up so I've bought a few coils from members here. They should last me until I get up my courage.
Yes, the only surefire way to never make mistakes in coil building is to just do nothing. :p
 

Anibird

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Member For 2 Years
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Yes, the only surefire way to never make mistakes in coil building is to just do nothing. :p
Exactly!! :D

Actually I think I'd try if I had someone to show me but YouTube doesn't answer back when I ask it something. I've already bought plenty of super thin wire I can't do anything with. Now I'm just waiting for someone who lives close to show up and offer to teach me. I think I'll be waiting a while. :(
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
As to that vid.. "Get outta my face". Best line. hahaha.

I still make my coils, guess that makes me a 'builder'. Though I don't see myself as a raymo or bd or jboi or whoever, what I think of as 'builders'. It's the same I think that happens with any market, commercialism. Not just from a sales standpoint but the more something goes mainstream the more it loses what made it unique to begin with. The sword cuts both ways, the more mainstream it becomes, the more money in the industry the more it's likely to have longevity. On the other hand it becomes watered down. Walmart.

Just in the few years I've been vaping people used to get really excited for stuff. Things were innovative or unique good or bad. The yt reviewers were like fellow vapers who appreciated the industry and more the community. It went from hey so I was goofing around and came up with a cool way to make a coil to hey I made a tool to cut coil leads. Hit my website, they're $19.95. You ask someone so what do you feel about this or that? And the response is 'hold up, did you buy a membership?'. Money first, enthusiasm secondary. It's lost that cozy feel of a group of enthusiasts and now it's mostly just corporate. I get people want to make money and that YT reviewers have been hit hard with demonitization and all. I also think they got too comfy in it being a main revenue source and no longer a hobby.

Same thing is happening with everyone, I've seen it with Jai Haze who's like a drunk kid with a pricing gun tagging every aspect of what he does. He'd sell his dirty shorts if he thought someone would buy them. Mooch started going that route, instead of merely contributing to a community he wanted to make it a full time job. Now if you want certain access to things you have to pay up. Diy or Die is doing the same thing, more and more vids are disappearing, temporary, recipes or in depth convos locked behind a money wall. Others of us have our own jobs and bills, we can't afford to prop up the entire industry when every tom, dick and harry wants an entry fee. I'm more community minded I guess. No I don't offer the expertise Wayne or Mooch do, but the advice I give is free. People don't have to pay me to send me a message and have me look at it. It takes time out of my day, I've got the same 24hrs everyone else does. I don't know the people I help whether it's helping them find hardware that sounds like it would suit them, trying to help them with problems on their mod or tank, passing them deals to save them a few bucks.

Another issue is the horrid pod craze. People got duped into repackaged ego pens. They bitch about dud coils and coils that the cotton burns up or gets funky in a hurry, then they move on to another product with the same shit mass produced factory coils. Premade coils are also becoming more available now that chinese companies are stepping up their game. Used to be if you wanted anything other than a basic round wire coil or clapton, you had to go with a coil builder if you didn't build it yourself. Now? Demonkiller, coilology, wotofo etc all have clapton, fused clapton, aliens, wire shots, premade on a spool, 100 coils for $10 and they're 'good enough' for a lot of people. Cheaper than handmade.

And ultimately most people are lazy as shit. It's not really knocking people, it's just what society has become. Cook my own food? Fuck that, I'll order out. Go pick up groceries or food myself? Fuck that, there's a service to go get it for me. I recently saw someone on fb trying to get into diy juice. But then they're bitching about it, too many components. They don't want to have to figure the nicotine amount, even with premade base. They then asked about not using vg or pg at all, just to make it easier. They're already complaining about mixing premade base and flavor shots ready to go, that's like the easiest way to do it. 2 parts, mix 'em. Then they're complaining about the cost. So what they want is, diy prices without the doing it part. Like if you don't want to fuck with all the ingredients and measuring - it's called buy a bottle of premixed commercial juice. We're right back where we started. Same with coils.

Oh factory coils are shit, there's no QC, they're too expensive, they don't last. Well you could make it yourself. Nah, that's too much work. Well there's premade ones you can buy that all you have to do is screw them to the post, trim them and stuff with wick. Nah, that's too much work too. I just want something I don't have to think about and can throw in and vape. You were using those, they were factory coils - and you bitched, remember? And because they're done for you they come with a price.

I'm pretty much anti modern internet. It used to be a cool innovative place with a more tight knit community and hobbyists who congregated together no matter the hobby. Whether it was boating, vaping, stamp collecting, computer building.. Now? It's like a constant stream of late night infomercials, advertisements within advertisements on top of advertisements. 101 people shoving shit in your face rip trippers style screaming 'BUY MY SHITTTT!!". And the quantity and quality of actual content has gone down. Any time you go to look for anything, 9x out of 10 it's just a wordy ad for something like a ninja foodi or a fucking kreg jig. Same shit with vaping sadly. You don't hear much from squidoode these days, every reviewer has their name on hardware trying to pimp their shit. It's like nascar. Well I'm vaping on a Tony B endorsed mod running Mooch branded batteries, hittin that Bogan atomizer with a pair of Jboi coils on randy mcfucknuts custom cotton, puffing on that IndoorSmokers ejuice.. like jesus fricken christ enough already.

So I tend to stick to myself, making my coils, learning to make my own juice, enjoying the old hobby of vaping - party of one. Forums where there used to be opinions and ideas exchange have given way to cloud check and selfies on instagram. At least I assume so, I dunno. I didn't buy the membership badge with the recurring monthly $19.95 + S/H fee.
 

gsmit1

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I didn't say m.terk was right about everything he said in the video. Just that the type of swag he was referring to, which really has brought vaping almost to its knees, is not on my list of reasons why I do coil builds... despite more than a few vapers did find my claim very difficult to believe so IMO this whole negativity thing, even when it's not warranted, also is one key part of the reason why so many builders have gone quiet.
I've actually drawn a harder line on this. I'm tired up to here with people acting like if I wasn't a smoker, I have no right to enjoy vaping. I hate cigarettes. Always have. I'm glad vaping helps people quit. (you have no idea)

I also love vaping for vaping's sake. I have every right to that as a responsible full grown adult man who's been on this planet almost 56 years. At the risk of sounding the wrong way, I've gained considerable knowledge and skill since I started and I share what I can freely and gladly, with an effort toward all due respect to the many I've learned from and who still know far more than I do.

That said, there are also monumentally unwise, immature and just plain stupid ways to represent the community and the industry. On that score, I'm with M.Terk, but I don't appreciate the implication that since I never was a smoker I have no right to step foot in that expo with him.

This will bring mixed emotions for some who read it and I understand that, but that's going to have to be the way it is.
 

wildgypsy70

“Widgy Pidgy”
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As to that vid.. "Get outta my face". Best line. hahaha.

I still make my coils, guess that makes me a 'builder'. Though I don't see myself as a raymo or bd or jboi or whoever, what I think of as 'builders'. It's the same I think that happens with any market, commercialism. Not just from a sales standpoint but the more something goes mainstream the more it loses what made it unique to begin with. The sword cuts both ways, the more mainstream it becomes, the more money in the industry the more it's likely to have longevity. On the other hand it becomes watered down. Walmart.

Just in the few years I've been vaping people used to get really excited for stuff. Things were innovative or unique good or bad. The yt reviewers were like fellow vapers who appreciated the industry and more the community. It went from hey so I was goofing around and came up with a cool way to make a coil to hey I made a tool to cut coil leads. Hit my website, they're $19.95. You ask someone so what do you feel about this or that? And the response is 'hold up, did you buy a membership?'. Money first, enthusiasm secondary. It's lost that cozy feel of a group of enthusiasts and now it's mostly just corporate. I get people want to make money and that YT reviewers have been hit hard with demonitization and all. I also think they got too comfy in it being a main revenue source and no longer a hobby.

Same thing is happening with everyone, I've seen it with Jai Haze who's like a drunk kid with a pricing gun tagging every aspect of what he does. He'd sell his dirty shorts if he thought someone would buy them. Mooch started going that route, instead of merely contributing to a community he wanted to make it a full time job. Now if you want certain access to things you have to pay up. Diy or Die is doing the same thing, more and more vids are disappearing, temporary, recipes or in depth convos locked behind a money wall. Others of us have our own jobs and bills, we can't afford to prop up the entire industry when every tom, dick and harry wants an entry fee. I'm more community minded I guess. No I don't offer the expertise Wayne or Mooch do, but the advice I give is free. People don't have to pay me to send me a message and have me look at it. It takes time out of my day, I've got the same 24hrs everyone else does. I don't know the people I help whether it's helping them find hardware that sounds like it would suit them, trying to help them with problems on their mod or tank, passing them deals to save them a few bucks.

Another issue is the horrid pod craze. People got duped into repackaged ego pens. They bitch about dud coils and coils that the cotton burns up or gets funky in a hurry, then they move on to another product with the same shit mass produced factory coils. Premade coils are also becoming more available now that chinese companies are stepping up their game. Used to be if you wanted anything other than a basic round wire coil or clapton, you had to go with a coil builder if you didn't build it yourself. Now? Demonkiller, coilology, wotofo etc all have clapton, fused clapton, aliens, wire shots, premade on a spool, 100 coils for $10 and they're 'good enough' for a lot of people. Cheaper than handmade.

And ultimately most people are lazy as shit. It's not really knocking people, it's just what society has become. Cook my own food? Fuck that, I'll order out. Go pick up groceries or food myself? Fuck that, there's a service to go get it for me. I recently saw someone on fb trying to get into diy juice. But then they're bitching about it, too many components. They don't want to have to figure the nicotine amount, even with premade base. They then asked about not using vg or pg at all, just to make it easier. They're already complaining about mixing premade base and flavor shots ready to go, that's like the easiest way to do it. 2 parts, mix 'em. Then they're complaining about the cost. So what they want is, diy prices without the doing it part. Like if you don't want to fuck with all the ingredients and measuring - it's called buy a bottle of premixed commercial juice. We're right back where we started. Same with coils.

Oh factory coils are shit, there's no QC, they're too expensive, they don't last. Well you could make it yourself. Nah, that's too much work. Well there's premade ones you can buy that all you have to do is screw them to the post, trim them and stuff with wick. Nah, that's too much work too. I just want something I don't have to think about and can throw in and vape. You were using those, they were factory coils - and you bitched, remember? And because they're done for you they come with a price.

I'm pretty much anti modern internet. It used to be a cool innovative place with a more tight knit community and hobbyists who congregated together no matter the hobby. Whether it was boating, vaping, stamp collecting, computer building.. Now? It's like a constant stream of late night infomercials, advertisements within advertisements on top of advertisements. 101 people shoving shit in your face rip trippers style screaming 'BUY MY SHITTTT!!". And the quantity and quality of actual content has gone down. Any time you go to look for anything, 9x out of 10 it's just a wordy ad for something like a ninja foodi or a fucking kreg jig. Same shit with vaping sadly. You don't hear much from squidoode these days, every reviewer has their name on hardware trying to pimp their shit. It's like nascar. Well I'm vaping on a Tony B endorsed mod running Mooch branded batteries, hittin that Bogan atomizer with a pair of Jboi coils on randy mcfucknuts custom cotton, puffing on that IndoorSmokers ejuice.. like jesus fricken christ enough already.

So I tend to stick to myself, making my coils, learning to make my own juice, enjoying the old hobby of vaping - party of one. Forums where there used to be opinions and ideas exchange have given way to cloud check and selfies on instagram. At least I assume so, I dunno. I didn't buy the membership badge with the recurring monthly $19.95 + S/H fee.
All of this!
 
my first coils I made where simple 24 ga kantal wire, I picked that size from alot of research on these and other forums. I found a large poprivit that was .112 inchs dia (3mm=.118") wrapped the wire around a 3mm rc car gear shaft and used the poprivit to help align it on my baby beast rba, I got better at wrapping that way and learned alot more, then made better wrapping machines, then came the parallel, twisted and the fused claptons coils, Its a fun hobbie and saves me some $$. Plus the added benefit that I can change the coils to "what I want", not whats avaliable, I go back every so often and reread some of the coils and other posts and see what I didn't understand or pick up new Idea.
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
my first coils I made where simple 24 ga kantal wire, I picked that size from alot of research on these and other forums. I found a large poprivit that was .112 inchs dia (3mm=.118") wrapped the wire around a 3mm rc car gear shaft and used the poprivit to help align it on my baby beast rba, I got better at wrapping that way and learned alot more, then made better wrapping machines, then came the parallel, twisted and the fused claptons coils, Its a fun hobbie and saves me some $$. Plus the added benefit that I can change the coils to "what I want", not whats avaliable, I go back every so often and reread some of the coils and other posts and see what I didn't understand or pick up new Idea.
Sounds like how I started. I use a jig now but I didn't have fancy tools starting out. Looking at the vape timeline of things, I think part of it I was new to vaping so behind on a lot of stuff. Wasn't aware that the things I was looking at were 'behind the times' even for then. Vids I was watching were older. My vape experience was more like those who began years before I did. Glad I learned that way though. Most of the vids I saw people were clipping wire with nail clippers and stuff.

My first rta was the ehpro bachelor, a postless single coil. There were no 'coily' tools, it was trial and error to get the legs the right length. Honestly it wasn't that difficult. I had no clue what was an 'easy to wick' rta or not. I just liked the looks so I got it. For coiling the wire I used a 16D (penny) box nail like a hobo lol. Also tried my hand at rewicking ego pen 2.4 ohm coils with silica wick. Stuff like that you really had to work at. I believe the 16D box nails are 4.2mm.

Now I see people asking all the time 'what's the easiest for a beginner'. I'm thinking spin the mystery wheel, grab one and just do it. The bachelor was a little odd because there was no well to tuck the wick tails into. They stuck straight out and rested in a notched cutout in the deck. They had to be fluffy enough because when the tank was put together the ends of that wick where it got cut flush was literally all that kept it from leaking. If there was a gap between the ends of the cotton and that machined notch it was a straight shot to the airflow. Juice would just drip on out.
 

gsmit1

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
My very first coil build was a dual parallel 24 ga kanthal in the Ijoy Limitless XL rba deck. An absolute nightmare to get wicked right, especially for a beginner. I was very proud of vaping on something I did myself.

I remember the first time I saw some super exotic builds, I thought it was digital trickery. Seriously. I thought folks were kinda jokingly photoshopping stuff like they did with like a Gillette razor with 8 blades for instance. Exaggerated satire.

I was amazed when I learned that people were actually making that stuff by hand, which I first found out by watching Mindforge's videos.
 

Jinx'd

Platinum Contributor
Member For 2 Years
I was amazed when I learned that people were actually making that stuff by hand, which I first found out by watching Mindforge's videos.

yeah. but are those really any better than a basic clapton or whatever ? sure, the guys making them will say they are, but i wouldn't trust that.
 

gsmit1

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
yeah. but are those really any better than a basic clapton or whatever ? sure, the guys making them will say they are, but i wouldn't trust that.
If you mean do they vape any better? I heard Nick Devine (who's gonna question his creds?) say it's pure artwork. The bigger and more exotic they are, after a certain point, the worse they vape. He vapes various, by comparison, simpler Claptons and aliens for the most part.

I do find that level of ability quite impressive and worthwhile though.
 

Jinx'd

Platinum Contributor
Member For 2 Years
If you mean do they vape any better? I heard Nick Devine (who's gonna question his creds?) say it's pure artwork. The bigger and more exotic they are, after a certain point, the worse they vape. He vapes various, by comparison, simpler Claptons and aliens for the most part.

I do find that level of ability quite impressive and worthwhile though.

i was thinking it was artwork. and it really is. and even "if" they vaped better, i would bet "diminishing returns" kicks in quick.
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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Member For 4 Years
VU Challenge Team
Reviewer
As to that vid.. "Get outta my face". Best line. hahaha.

I still make my coils, guess that makes me a 'builder'. Though I don't see myself as a raymo or bd or jboi or whoever, what I think of as 'builders'. It's the same I think that happens with any market, commercialism. Not just from a sales standpoint but the more something goes mainstream the more it loses what made it unique to begin with. The sword cuts both ways, the more mainstream it becomes, the more money in the industry the more it's likely to have longevity. On the other hand it becomes watered down. Walmart.

Just in the few years I've been vaping people used to get really excited for stuff. Things were innovative or unique good or bad. The yt reviewers were like fellow vapers who appreciated the industry and more the community. It went from hey so I was goofing around and came up with a cool way to make a coil to hey I made a tool to cut coil leads. Hit my website, they're $19.95. You ask someone so what do you feel about this or that? And the response is 'hold up, did you buy a membership?'. Money first, enthusiasm secondary. It's lost that cozy feel of a group of enthusiasts and now it's mostly just corporate. I get people want to make money and that YT reviewers have been hit hard with demonitization and all. I also think they got too comfy in it being a main revenue source and no longer a hobby.

Same thing is happening with everyone, I've seen it with Jai Haze who's like a drunk kid with a pricing gun tagging every aspect of what he does. He'd sell his dirty shorts if he thought someone would buy them. Mooch started going that route, instead of merely contributing to a community he wanted to make it a full time job. Now if you want certain access to things you have to pay up. Diy or Die is doing the same thing, more and more vids are disappearing, temporary, recipes or in depth convos locked behind a money wall. Others of us have our own jobs and bills, we can't afford to prop up the entire industry when every tom, dick and harry wants an entry fee. I'm more community minded I guess. No I don't offer the expertise Wayne or Mooch do, but the advice I give is free. People don't have to pay me to send me a message and have me look at it. It takes time out of my day, I've got the same 24hrs everyone else does. I don't know the people I help whether it's helping them find hardware that sounds like it would suit them, trying to help them with problems on their mod or tank, passing them deals to save them a few bucks.

Another issue is the horrid pod craze. People got duped into repackaged ego pens. They bitch about dud coils and coils that the cotton burns up or gets funky in a hurry, then they move on to another product with the same shit mass produced factory coils. Premade coils are also becoming more available now that chinese companies are stepping up their game. Used to be if you wanted anything other than a basic round wire coil or clapton, you had to go with a coil builder if you didn't build it yourself. Now? Demonkiller, coilology, wotofo etc all have clapton, fused clapton, aliens, wire shots, premade on a spool, 100 coils for $10 and they're 'good enough' for a lot of people. Cheaper than handmade.

And ultimately most people are lazy as shit. It's not really knocking people, it's just what society has become. Cook my own food? Fuck that, I'll order out. Go pick up groceries or food myself? Fuck that, there's a service to go get it for me. I recently saw someone on fb trying to get into diy juice. But then they're bitching about it, too many components. They don't want to have to figure the nicotine amount, even with premade base. They then asked about not using vg or pg at all, just to make it easier. They're already complaining about mixing premade base and flavor shots ready to go, that's like the easiest way to do it. 2 parts, mix 'em. Then they're complaining about the cost. So what they want is, diy prices without the doing it part. Like if you don't want to fuck with all the ingredients and measuring - it's called buy a bottle of premixed commercial juice. We're right back where we started. Same with coils.

Oh factory coils are shit, there's no QC, they're too expensive, they don't last. Well you could make it yourself. Nah, that's too much work. Well there's premade ones you can buy that all you have to do is screw them to the post, trim them and stuff with wick. Nah, that's too much work too. I just want something I don't have to think about and can throw in and vape. You were using those, they were factory coils - and you bitched, remember? And because they're done for you they come with a price.

I'm pretty much anti modern internet. It used to be a cool innovative place with a more tight knit community and hobbyists who congregated together no matter the hobby. Whether it was boating, vaping, stamp collecting, computer building.. Now? It's like a constant stream of late night infomercials, advertisements within advertisements on top of advertisements. 101 people shoving shit in your face rip trippers style screaming 'BUY MY SHITTTT!!". And the quantity and quality of actual content has gone down. Any time you go to look for anything, 9x out of 10 it's just a wordy ad for something like a ninja foodi or a fucking kreg jig. Same shit with vaping sadly. You don't hear much from squidoode these days, every reviewer has their name on hardware trying to pimp their shit. It's like nascar. Well I'm vaping on a Tony B endorsed mod running Mooch branded batteries, hittin that Bogan atomizer with a pair of Jboi coils on randy mcfucknuts custom cotton, puffing on that IndoorSmokers ejuice.. like jesus fricken christ enough already.

So I tend to stick to myself, making my coils, learning to make my own juice, enjoying the old hobby of vaping - party of one. Forums where there used to be opinions and ideas exchange have given way to cloud check and selfies on instagram. At least I assume so, I dunno. I didn't buy the membership badge with the recurring monthly $19.95 + S/H fee.
Top notch post :cheers:
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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yeah. but are those really any better than a basic clapton or whatever ? sure, the guys making them will say they are, but i wouldn't trust that.

nope diminishing returns the bigger you go imo...it’s more the advanced hobby aspect at that point and more for the art and achievement of knocking a coil out like that ...kudos to those who reach it
 

JayFiST

Member For 4 Years
I hope not.. I have still yet to buy some pre made RDA coils. I just always end up making my own. The ones I'm using now have been on my RDA for like 4 months lol. Whenever I re wick I clean them and dry burn them so they last for ages.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
If you mean do they vape any better? I heard Nick Devine (who's gonna question his creds?) say it's pure artwork. The bigger and more exotic they are, after a certain point, the worse they vape. He vapes various, by comparison, simpler Claptons and aliens for the most part.

I do find that level of ability quite impressive and worthwhile though.
I've heard the same from many as well. That pretty much those diminishing returns Jinx'd referred to kick in around the point where you reach tricore fused claptons or aliens (nearly the same thing). It does get into the realm of hobby and art. Not to say a framed staple may not vape different, it likely does. But all the variations like pitchforks and stuff, inception coils, it's about the skill and tedium involved. Plus a lot of these coils you really can't even appreciate with the naked eye, they look gorgeous in macro shots.

Something else to keep in mind is the sheer wire mass with some of them. Not only needing more power just to get them glowing, having to go kanthal to keep resistance even somewhat in check. Having an atomizer with a large enough deck and wide enough posts to get 4-5 wraps on the really wide multicore coils. And flat posts wide enough to accept those wide ass leads. A lot of the time with dual coil shots they're heating the coils one at a time to color them just because they're so damn massive.

To me there's more practicality in keeping it more to the simple side, keeping wire mass down and using thinner gauges so less power is required and ramp up is improved. Even if cranking the power up to compensate, those monster ass coils are going to act like a heat sink. Use high wattage to get the vapor going but then they're cooking the juice for awhile. All practical purpose aside, always a sucker for some good coil porn though.

Only thing I don't care for I've noticed some of these macro shots are getting out of control. They're zoomed in to the point the wire looks all grainy, you can see the striations in it from the extrusion process and the snags left on the end where the cutters pinched them. It's like when they zoom in too close on nudie pics and it's not even pervy anymore. You're just going what is that, the moon? Why is it pink? Come to find out it's like a nipple under a 450x lens like ok now it's just science. Don't even know what I'm looking at. lol.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
I've actually drawn a harder line on this. I'm tired up to here with people acting like if I wasn't a smoker, I have no right to enjoy vaping. I hate cigarettes. Always have. I'm glad vaping helps people quit. (you have no idea)

I also love vaping for vaping's sake. I have every right to that as a responsible full grown adult man who's been on this planet almost 56 years. At the risk of sounding the wrong way, I've gained considerable knowledge and skill since I started and I share what I can freely and gladly, with an effort toward all due respect to the many I've learned from and who still know far more than I do.

That said, there are also monumentally unwise, immature and just plain stupid ways to represent the community and the industry. On that score, I'm with M.Terk, but I don't appreciate the implication that since I never was a smoker I have no right to step foot in that expo with him.

This will bring mixed emotions for some who read it and I understand that, but that's going to have to be the way it is.
I can't really blame m.terk for reacting the way that he did. Although I'm not sure, I don't think he meant to imply that since you never were a smoker you have no right to step foot in that expo with him, nor that vapers who never were smokers are vaping only because it is swag, meaning, it is what makes them look cool... just that he hates the fact so many of them [vapers who never were smokers] are doing only exactly that, and are doing it in such a way that makes vaping look terrible and bad, or makes it look like this is by far the only true interesting reason why one chooses to vape.
 

gsmit1

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Member For 4 Years
I can't really blame m.terk for reacting the way that he did. Although I'm not sure, I don't think he meant to imply that since you never were a smoker you have no right to step foot in that expo with him, nor that vapers who never were smokers are vaping only because it is swag, meaning, it is what makes them look cool... just that he hates the fact so many of them [vapers who never were smokers] are doing only exactly that, and are doing it in such a way that makes vaping look terrible and bad, or makes it look like this is by far the only true interesting reason why one chooses to vape.
If that's what he meant there were far better ways to express it.

He says:
"you vape 5% nicotine juice to get a nic buzz!!! ADMIT IT!!!
Like the guy was a child molester or something.

Ok, I admit it. Have freely done so all along. Now what? I enjoy nicotine. Anybody who vapes ANY nicotine containing juice at all is doing it for the nicotine. If they tell me otherwise, I'll call them a liar. There is no more wrong with nicotine than there is with caffeine or crap processed "foods" and except for very moderate amounts, it is one million times less harmful than alcohol or even smoking that green stuff, neither of which anybody seems to have a problem with.

Further, is M.Terk going to seriously maintain that his 60 dollar RDAs are about keeping people off cigarettes? Really? Nobody needs a 60 dollar RDA to quit smoking. Nobody NEEDS any rda to quit smoking. Nuthin wrong with RDAs. Even 60 dollar or 150 dollar RDAs if that's what people want and can afford and that's the point. M.Terk has every right to market his products, (with my blessing, not that he needs it) just don't come at me with this self righteously indignant, pseudo humanitarian attitude when you have a clear financial interest in the situation.

You sir have one of the largest, finest and most expensive collections of high end mechs and atomizers of anybody I've ever heard of. Is that about smoking cessation? Do you really need several tens of thousands of dollars (at least) of super high quality gear to stay off cigarettes? (You don't have to answer that :rolleyes: ) You are a grown man who enjoys the hobby as well as vaping itself, and whether you were ever a smoker or not, you owe NOBODY a justification for that.

These nanny state political overlords have guys like M.Terk right where they want them. Begging daddy for the keys to their own own car.
 

gsmit1

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Member For 4 Years
But all the variations like pitchforks and stuff, inception coils, it's about the skill and tedium involved.
It is and I like it alot. As do you.

How this came up with Devine was somebody messaged him saying that they weren't willing to work that hard or pay that much for exotic builds, no matter how great they vaped. He was live on youtube at the time. He was gracious, but did get mildly aggravated in his response. He told the guy that it should be obvious that corrugated fused framed stitched stapled claptons were all about art and prestige.

He then went on to talk about the things you brought up. Resistance issues, intolerable ramp up times due to wire mass etc. He pulled the cap off whatever RDA he was using at the time, pointed it at the camera and said, "stuff like this is what I vape most of the time." I think they were like tricore aliens. "Takes me a few minutes to whip up a pair of these." (paraphrase)


That has nothing to do with smoking cessation either btw :D In the name of consistency exotic builders should be taking some heat too I would think.

I hope they never quit. Aside from there being far worse things to spend time doing, it's just plain cool. Cool should be enough when it comes to harmless hobbies.
 

Jinx'd

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Member For 2 Years
. Anybody who vapes ANY nicotine containing juice at all is doing it for the nicotine. If they tell me otherwise, I'll call them a liar.

bro, there is more to vaping than nic(lets leave the hobby aspect out of it). there is the "habit" of "the action". when i smoked, it was mostly out of the habit of it, as i almost never got a nic fix. it was just something to do.
now, i get the nic fix all the time. but the thing is, the habit of "hand to mouth" "something to do" is still strong.

the next diy i make, i am going to make a separate batch of very low nic juice just to drip when i am very hand to mouth.
 

KingPin!

In my defence, I was left unsupervised ^^
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If that's what he meant there were far better ways to express it.

He says:

Like the guy was a child molester or something.

Ok, I admit it. Have freely done so all along. Now what? I enjoy nicotine. Anybody who vapes ANY nicotine containing juice at all is doing it for the nicotine. If they tell me otherwise, I'll call them a liar. There is no more wrong with nicotine than there is with caffeine or crap processed "foods" and except for very moderate amounts, it is one million times less harmful than alcohol or even smoking that green stuff, neither of which anybody seems to have a problem with.

Further, is M.Terk going to seriously maintain that his 60 dollar RDAs are about keeping people off cigarettes? Really? Nobody needs a 60 dollar RDA to quit smoking. Nobody NEEDS any rda to quit smoking. Nuthin wrong with RDAs. Even 60 dollar or 150 dollar RDAs if that's what people want and can afford and that's the point. M.Terk has every right to market his products, (with my blessing, not that he needs it) just don't come at me with this self righteously indignant, pseudo humanitarian attitude when you have a clear financial interest in the situation.

You sir have one of the largest, finest and most expensive collections of high end mechs and atomizers of anybody I've ever heard of. Is that about smoking cessation? Do you really need several tens of thousands of dollars (at least) of super high quality gear to stay off cigarettes? (You don't have to answer that :rolleyes: ) You are a grown man who enjoys the hobby as well as vaping itself, and whether you were ever a smoker or not, you owe NOBODY a justification for that.

These nanny state political overlords have guys like M.Terk right where they want them. Begging daddy for the keys to their own own car.

have to disagree here watching it ...the dude interviewing in carams link was from barstool ...a self professed vape god interested in showing the stupidity of vaping in a brand building exercise, no different from ripping celebs to gets views hoping he’d get a bite at the expo, look the muppet up ...or check this link below.

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-bars...-laura-ingraham-fox-news-vaping-1219952?amp=1

thought he was calm considering and handled it well.

m.terk might be branding himself, having said that he also taught me and countless thousands how to build alien coils with his early vids...he has an RDA good on him I say ....it’s besides the point he was making though
 

gsmit1

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Maybe I'm taking it too personally. I never even heard of "barstool" before seeing this video last Sunday. The link you just posted is everything I know about them/him. That does help me understand M.Terk's anger, but I still think the basis of his attack came off as far broader than just the barstools of the world, and 60 dollar RDAs are not about freedom from tobacco. Nor should they have to be.

I also do know who M.Terk is and by no means should I be construed as taking anything away from the guy. Come on though friend. There is far more going on in the vaping community and industry than just smoking cessation. To maintain otherwise just doesn't even pass the snicker test. I understand why people are reluctant to own that, but it really is the case.
 

gsmit1

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Member For 4 Years
bro, there is more to vaping than nic(lets leave the hobby aspect out of it). there is the "habit" of "the action". when i smoked, it was mostly out of the habit of it, as i almost never got a nic fix. it was just something to do.
now, i get the nic fix all the time. but the thing is, the habit of "hand to mouth" "something to do" is still strong.

the next diy i make, i am going to make a separate batch of very low nic juice just to drip when i am very hand to mouth.
Fair enough, but how do you leave the hobby side out of it? You of all people must know that I'm not beating you up AT ALL, but you're a perfect example. I remember when you got here. Now you have dozens of mods and atomizers (a thing I famously predicted :D ) and are doing custom bling work. All of which is perfectly fine. At this point how much of that is about cigarettes anymore though? Which is also perfectly fine.

The point is that vaping belongs in the same general category with a bunch of other not necessarily super healthy things that people do and is far less harmful and destructive than the rest of them. I would also go so far as to say that the hobbyist thing is a major positive as it provides intellectual stimulation and something constructive for people to learn and spend time on. On that level, for some folks it might even contribute to vaping's effectiveness at beating tobacco.

Why can't adults who want to, just enjoy it? I'll tell you why. Because long before there was such a thing as vaping, the citizens of this nation surrendered that right to the parasites in the state capitols and DC.
 
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Jinx'd

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Member For 2 Years
Fair enough, but how do you leave the hobby side out of it? You of all people must know that I'm not beating you up AT ALL, but you're a perfect example. I remember when you got here. Now you have dozens of mods and atomizers (a thing I famously predicted :D ) and are doing custom bling work. All of which is perfectly fine. At this point how much of that is about cigarettes anymore though? Which is also perfectly fine.

the intent of my comment was meant to focus on the 'start vaping to quit smoking" is only about nic.
the hand to mouth habit thing is real. most vapors are not hobby and x-smokers.

you did not offend me in an way, shape, or form :). yeah, i got bit by the bug. but in the end, its all about not smoking.
all the cool shit and saving money are big bonuses.
 

Synphul

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Member For 4 Years
That twat from barstool interviewing Terk is a complete douche. He's of the same caliber as 'donnysmokes' or linus (tech tips). Just fucking douche canoe 1st grade. It was nothing serious at all, it was an attempt to try and corner someone in vaping and show their ass. The whole 'vape god' crap is a pathetic parody and a slap against vapers and unfortunately Ingraham took him serious. Or at least played like she was. I wouldn't have given that assclown the time of day.

Imagine going into a car club for say ricers. Now people may joke about them or poke fun, to the serious guys hey it's what they're into. Just like some are into classic hot rods, muscle cars, 4x4's or whatever. What you don't do is go into their turf and be a complete bitch nozzle. Like so dewd, I'm like the raddest racer. I vroomy vroom with my nos. Drifty king beotch. And then try to tell the crew 'no I'm serious'. You're a fuckwit, everyone knows it, he knew it. Gtfo with that. If Terk would've hauled off and clocked the dumb fuck I so would've paid his bail.

I think Terk went a bit hard the other way with it and might've chapped a few asses. He was trying to differentiate real vapers or people serious about vaping from the walking parodies and cliche poster children. Especially since the clown from barstool isn't just someone vaping for the fun of it in spite of being a non smoker, he does it out of pure sarcasm like a passive aggressive bitch. That's not even the same as some younger adult who thinks it's 'kewl', even that has some thread of sincerity to it. Everything barstool's tool does is 100% mockery and he knows it.
 

Rhianne

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I can't really blame m.terk for reacting the way that he did. Although I'm not sure, I don't think he meant to imply that since you never were a smoker you have no right to step foot in that expo with him, nor that vapers who never were smokers are vaping only because it is swag, meaning, it is what makes them look cool... just that he hates the fact so many of them [vapers who never were smokers] are doing only exactly that, and are doing it in such a way that makes vaping look terrible and bad, or makes it look like this is by far the only true interesting reason why one chooses to vape.

But aren’t those “cool” vapers usually kids, or hip twenty-somethings? They are poisoning the well, imho. But I’m not really interested in what they do, unless it affects me. (Not trying to be harsh, they only affect me if their actions cause bans etc.)
 

gsmit1

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you did not offend me in an way, shape, or form :)
I just wanted to make sure and I'm glad. I don't wanna be like that. I like hanging out here. I like the people here. I owe alot of what I know to them. That's a thing of value to me. I don't want to be viewed as an enemy :(

i got bit by the bug. but in the end, its all about not smoking.
all the cool shit and saving money are big bonuses.
Fair enough again. Let me ask you, and anybody else this question. If "electronic cigarette" (I don't like that term) technology never delivered nicotine, would it be the same? It wouldn't for me. I wouldn't do it. 0 mg vape juice to me is like non-alcoholic beer or decaffeinated coffee. Why?
 

JayFiST

Member For 4 Years
I just wanted to make sure and I'm glad. I don't wanna be like that. I like hanging out here. I like the people here. I owe alot of what I know to them. That's a thing of value to me. I don't want to be viewed as an enemy :(


Fair enough again. Let me ask you, and anybody else this question. If "electronic cigarette" (I don't like that term) technology never delivered nicotine, would it be the same? It wouldn't for me. I wouldn't do it. 0 mg vape juice to me is like non-alcoholic beer or decaffeinated coffee. Why?
Hell yea! I wouldn't vape either if I could only get 0mg. I tried to get off nicotine and only vaped 0mg eLiquid for 2 weeks and man I was losing the plot lol, I just wanted to keep eating and eating. After a huge indian curry I wanted another one . I'm never quitting nicotine or vaping till I die.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk
 

gsmit1

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
That twat from barstool interviewing Terk is a complete douche. He's of the same caliber as 'donnysmokes' or linus (tech tips). Just fucking douche canoe 1st grade. It was nothing serious at all, it was an attempt to try and corner someone in vaping and show their ass. The whole 'vape god' crap is a pathetic parody and a slap against vapers and unfortunately Ingraham took him serious. Or at least played like she was. I wouldn't have given that assclown the time of day.

Imagine going into a car club for say ricers. Now people may joke about them or poke fun, to the serious guys hey it's what they're into. Just like some are into classic hot rods, muscle cars, 4x4's or whatever. What you don't do is go into their turf and be a complete bitch nozzle. Like so dewd, I'm like the raddest racer. I vroomy vroom with my nos. Drifty king beotch. And then try to tell the crew 'no I'm serious'. You're a fuckwit, everyone knows it, he knew it. Gtfo with that. If Terk would've hauled off and clocked the dumb fuck I so would've paid his bail.

I think Terk went a bit hard the other way with it and might've chapped a few asses. He was trying to differentiate real vapers or people serious about vaping from the walking parodies and cliche poster children. Especially since the clown from barstool isn't just someone vaping for the fun of it in spite of being a non smoker, he does it out of pure sarcasm like a passive aggressive bitch. That's not even the same as some younger adult who thinks it's 'kewl', even that has some thread of sincerity to it. Everything barstool's tool does is 100% mockery and he knows it.
Having been further apprised of the situation, I do hereby stand down, at least to a large degree, on my criticisms of M.Terk. I still think he could've handled it better, but I now have a much better understanding of what this clown from barstool is about. I didn't know. Which means I probably should've found out before speaking up.
 

Rhianne

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Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
bro, there is more to vaping than nic(lets leave the hobby aspect out of it). there is the "habit" of "the action". when i smoked, it was mostly out of the habit of it, as i almost never got a nic fix. it was just something to do.
now, i get the nic fix all the time. but the thing is, the habit of "hand to mouth" "something to do" is still strong.

the next diy i make, i am going to make a separate batch of very low nic juice just to drip when i am very hand to mouth.

You’re right. The inhale/exhale is what does it for me. Plus the hand mouth habit which interfered with my “smoking cessation” tries with lozenges, gum, patches et al.

I almost quit with lozenges, but something was missing. And it wasn’t just nic. Vaping is the most effective way to quit and stay quit. If BT came up with it, they would be pushing it on people all over the place. (Yes, I sound like a commercial but it’s my truth.)

Oh yeah, and the something to do aspect helps a lot, too.
 
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Rhianne

Diamond Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
That twat from barstool interviewing Terk is a complete douche. He's of the same caliber as 'donnysmokes' or linus (tech tips). Just fucking douche canoe 1st grade. It was nothing serious at all, it was an attempt to try and corner someone in vaping and show their ass. The whole 'vape god' crap is a pathetic parody and a slap against vapers and unfortunately Ingraham took him serious. Or at least played like she was. I wouldn't have given that assclown the time of day.

Imagine going into a car club for say ricers. Now people may joke about them or poke fun, to the serious guys hey it's what they're into. Just like some are into classic hot rods, muscle cars, 4x4's or whatever. What you don't do is go into their turf and be a complete bitch nozzle. Like so dewd, I'm like the raddest racer. I vroomy vroom with my nos. Drifty king beotch. And then try to tell the crew 'no I'm serious'. You're a fuckwit, everyone knows it, he knew it. Gtfo with that. If Terk would've hauled off and clocked the dumb fuck I so would've paid his bail.

I think Terk went a bit hard the other way with it and might've chapped a few asses. He was trying to differentiate real vapers or people serious about vaping from the walking parodies and cliche poster children. Especially since the clown from barstool isn't just someone vaping for the fun of it in spite of being a non smoker, he does it out of pure sarcasm like a passive aggressive bitch. That's not even the same as some younger adult who thinks it's 'kewl', even that has some thread of sincerity to it. Everything barstool's tool does is 100% mockery and he knows it.

Oh, you’re on a roll with your comments! Well said.
 

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