Vaping Underground Dropped The Ball

Theboss · Dec 6, 2019

So I recently discovered by accident that 2 members here were no longer staff members, @KingPin! and @JuicyLucy and it should be an embarrassment to @VaporJoe, @5150sick and the rest of the admins on here that members weren't informed.

This forum has a forum announcement section and this could have been utilized to put out a very simple announcement to it's members simply stating that these people were no longer part of the mod team. The classy thing to do would have been to add a line along the lines of - we'd like to thank so and so for their contributions to the forum over the time that they were staff members.

You can have class and not have to get into details around why these people are no longer staff members.

Anyway, just needed to get this off of my chest, imo it's a big miss from the entire Admin. We should not have to find out by accident when looking for help with something.

Although my interactions with @KingPin! were limited I did find him to be a really cool person to deal with, @JuicyLucy was the first person to welcome me when I joined here and she was always very helpful whenever I had a question and always quick with a witty comeback when I was being a smart ass. I'd like to personally thank her for all of her help over the course of my first year here. It's unfortunate your contributions weren't recognized when you left the mod team, but I know I'm not the only member here who will miss you in that capacity.

MrMeowgi · Dec 6, 2019

Both departures were for personal reasons. One being moving to a tropical island. They both posted and have badges at the top. So for months now anyone could see they're not moderators. Everyone knows where to look for a swat badge that they want. We weren't sure at first if things were going to stay that way but they did unfortunately. This was months back and just now noticed? Not defending. But dropped the ball I don't think so.

Theboss · Dec 6, 2019

MrMeowgi said:
Both departures were for personal reasons. One being moving to a tropical island. They both posted and have badges at the top. So for months now anyone could see they're not moderators. Everyone knows where to look for a swat badge that they want. We weren't sure at first if things were going to stay that way but they did unfortunately. This was months back and just now noticed? Not defending. But dropped the ball I don't think so.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the dropped the ball part, because how the hell do you guys not publicly give a simple thank you to 2 people who gave so much of their time?

I'm also not sure what you mean by me just noticing, yes, I literally just found out this week, what does that have to do with this?

I was really hoping a senior admin would reply and say something along the lines of yeah, we missed an opportunity and actually own it. I guess I hoped for too much from the people who run this.

MrMeowgi · Dec 7, 2019

I dont think there's been an announcement for any moderator that's left since 2014. Maybe a few that deserved an ass kicking. But you've tagged both of them so I'm sure they'll jump in if they see fit.

Theboss · Dec 7, 2019

MrMeowgi said:
I dont think there's been an announcement for any moderator that's left since 2014. Maybe a few that deserved an ass kicking. But you've tagged both of them so I'm sure they'll jump in if they see fit.

Listen I appreciate you replying, but you're not one of the people I take issue with on this as you're not an admin, but saying you've never done something as a reason is weak. When I hear one of my employees tell me - we've never done that before - I like to remind them that there's always room for improvement.

The Cromwell · Dec 7, 2019

some things are pretty much the same whether ECF or VU.
Moderator/Admin business is NOT transparent and will NOT be discussed openly.

Theboss · Dec 7, 2019

The Cromwell said:
some things are pretty much the same whether ECF or VU.
Moderator/Admin business is NOT transparent and will NOT be discussed openly.

Sure, not arguing that at all. Taking a moment to inform your members that someone is no longer a mod and thanking them for their contributions is not discussing mod/admin business, it's simply the right thing to do. They're quick to congratulate and announce new admin so what's the difference?

JuicyLucy · Dec 7, 2019

Well, it is true, there are no announcements for new mods or old mods leaving - badges just appear and disappear - I can live with that

I did not quit because I was moving, I quit because I had a profound disagreement with admin over moderating policy - it ran deep and in case no one noticed, I did not log into VU for almost two months - which had nothing to do with moving

However, I love VU (warts and all) and the vast majority of the membership are fine people and I have made many deep friendships here

It still beats the shit out of ECF

Some of the deepest issues I felt needed addressing on the forum have been rectified, I missed the good folks on VU and with vaping under threat worldwide, I did make the decision to become active again

The Cromwell · Dec 7, 2019

Theboss said:
Sure, not arguing that at all. Taking a moment to inform your members that someone is no longer a mod and thanking them for their contributions is not discussing mod/admin business, it's simply the right thing to do. They're quick to congratulate and announce new admin so what's the difference?

I will not go fully into it. I also left for about 2 months...

Theboss · Dec 7, 2019

JuicyLucy said:
Well, it is true, there are no announcements for new mods or old mods leaving - badges just appear and disappear - I can live with that

I did not quit because I was moving, I quit because I had a profound disagreement with admin over moderating policy - it ran deep and in case no one noticed, I did not log into VU for almost two months - which had nothing to do with moving

However, I love VU (warts and all) and the vast majority of the membership are fine people and I have made many deep friendships here

It still beats the shit out of ECF

Some of the deepest issues I felt needed addressing on the forum have been rectified, I missed the good folks on VU and with vaping under threat worldwide, I did make the decision to become active again

I knew to expect a classy response if you decided to respond to this. The fact that you can live with it doesn't make it right. All of the mods give their time to help make this forum a better place. I was lost trying to navigate when I first came over from ECF and you helped a lot. You all make/made significant contributions here and it's an FU imo for that to not be recognized.

Not to mention that people become comfortable with certain mods, how many times in the last year have I tagged you in a post asking for clarification on something or when rules weren't being followed. This would be like a Supervisor leaving my company and me not informing the front line people who look to that person for direction. No, every company makes some kind of announcement.

I'm hoping the takeaway from this thread for the senior staff is that they can do more to keep their supporting members informed and also recognize people. If you have nothing to hide transparency should never be an issue.

Glad you're back Juicy!!

KingPin! · Dec 7, 2019

Haha bet the board lit up for this thread ....there’s gonna be eyes all over this one

I think it’s a good idea Boss personally, Meowgi is right though it’s not something that’s previously been done, doesn’t mean it has to stay that way going forward, in terms of letting the community know who’s presently running the asylum as a rosta page or something.

I can’t talk for everyone as people have gone for different reasons over the years. In my case the discussions you mention, in terms of the thanks and appreciation when stepping down did happen back end with Tyger, it’s not like well cheerio then (unless you turn out to be a right prick), quite the opposite really Tyger tried every trick in the book to keep me on, it’s just not broadcast out there same as any mod discussions.

It was fully my decision to go. Have nothing but respect for the mod team, when you work closely with the team for a long time, it ain’t easy saying goodby as you’re in the trenches together every day ...I assure you staying neutral on things, not calling people out for being turds at times, and wanting to crack head together ain’t easy, you have to eat some big shit sandwiches sometimes to keep things ticking along just so, and not becoming an oppressive regime.

it’s human nature to want to resolve differences, one of the first things you learn when joining the mod team is that bit, since VU is built on letting people resolve their own differences for the most part you have to make team decisions for the greater good even if it goes against your own beliefs, mix that in with being subjected to that awfulness that goes on between people working their stuff out.....well let’s just say you have a nuke button, but having the resolve not to use it it quite something I assure you.

thanks for the sentiment though it’s appreciated

JuicyLucy · Dec 7, 2019

KingPin! said:
Haha bet the board lit up for this thread ....there’s gonna be eyes all over this one

I think it’s a good idea Boss personally, Meowgi is right though it’s not something that’s previously been done, doesn’t mean it has to stay that way going forward, in terms of letting the community know who’s presently running the asylum as a rosta page or something.

I can’t talk for everyone as people have gone for different reasons over the years. In my case the discussions you mention, in terms of the thanks and appreciation when stepping down did happen back end with Tyger, it’s not like well cheerio then (unless you turn out to be a right prick), quite the opposite really Tyger tried every trick in the book to keep me me on, it’s just not broadcast out there same as any mod discussions.

It was fully my decision to go. Have nothing but respect for the mod team, when you work closely with the team for a long time, it ain’t easy saying goodby as you’re in the trenches together every day ...I assure you staying neutral on things, not calling people out for being turds at times, and wanting to crack head together ain’t easy, you have to eat some big shit sandwiches sometimes to keep things ticking along just so, and not becoming an oppressive regime.

it’s human nature to want to resolve differences, one of the first things you learn when joining the mod team is that bit, since VU is built on letting people resolve their own differences for the most part you have to make team decisions for the greater good even if it goes against your own beliefs, mix that in with being subjected to that awfulness that goes on between people working their stuff out.....well let’s just say you have a nuke button, but having the resolve not to use it it quite something I assure you.

thanks for the sentiment though it’s appreciated

Well stated - and so very true

Bigrick · Dec 7, 2019

JuicyLucy said:
Well, it is true, there are no announcements for new mods or old mods leaving - badges just appear and disappear - I can live with that

I did not quit because I was moving, I quit because I had a profound disagreement with admin over moderating policy - it ran deep and in case no one noticed, I did not log into VU for almost two months - which had nothing to do with moving

However, I love VU (warts and all) and the vast majority of the membership are fine people and I have made many deep friendships here

It still beats the shit out of ECF

Some of the deepest issues I felt needed addressing on the forum have been rectified, I missed the good folks on VU and with vaping under threat worldwide, I did make the decision to become active again

Much love to you Juicy. Regardless of reasons I personally will miss you.

Mykreign · Dec 7, 2019

I never noticed either. JuicyLucy and Kingpin are the shit! Super awesome people.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The Cromwell · Dec 7, 2019

Mykreign said:
I never noticed either. JuicyLucy and Kingpin are the shit! Super awesome people.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Yep

DaBunny · Dec 7, 2019

{{ ya know a REALLY GOOD restaurant when da X-employees still dine der}}

HUMMMMM

and

look der Both here..

must be a pretty good place to be. HU?

The Cromwell · Dec 7, 2019

The best of the options out there.

JuicyLucy · Dec 7, 2019

Bigrick said:
Much love to you Juicy. Regardless of reasons I personally will miss you.

Still here, just not a moderator :wave:

Just Frank · Dec 7, 2019

I barely even notice badges most of the time. Most of the mods here blend in nicely and don't seem to power trip like at other sites. I appreciate all the time and work they put in. I don't envy the task. I hope they're compensated in some way.

I don't know about "it should be an embarrassment.." My take is, it's none of my buisness. I just like to hang out here and discuss topics with people and learn. I have no idea what's happened or happening "behind the scenes" .

lordmage · Dec 7, 2019

Well i can say We love all are members and staff and miss when any of them decided to step down or not be active.
in every case i have nothing but love and support for their own choices. you all must do what you must do for your own sanity.

However personally i think when a staffer resigns any announcement should be up to that Ex-staffer if they want to and to expect anything else is weird when all it takes to see who is active staff at anytime. is going here http://vapingunderground.com/members/?type=staff
same could be said for those that join

Theboss · Dec 7, 2019

No admin comment? Interesting

Theboss · Dec 7, 2019

lordmage said:
Well i can say We love all are members and staff and miss when any of them decided to step down or not be active.
in every case i have nothing but love and support for their own choices. you all must do what you must do for your own sanity.

However personally i think when a staffer resigns any announcement should be up to that Ex-staffer if they want to and to expect anything else is weird when all it takes to see who is active staff at anytime. is going here http://vapingunderground.com/members/?type=staff
same could be said for those that join

Interesting list. One of those people hasn't been on since 2016 and a couple of others last activity was in Oct.

Sounds like that would mean that the mods that are active give even more of their time to this forum than I thought and helps makes my point.

lordmage · Dec 7, 2019

Theboss said:
Interesting list. One of those people hasn't been on since 2016 and a couple of others last activity was in Oct.

Sounds like that would mean that the mods that are active give even more of their time to this forum than I thought and makes my point.

i assure you that what you think is a lot of are time is actually way less. for about 95% of the time it is just spammers that make up are activity and that is always changing. i have been a moderator since day 1 and you can see based on post count alone we are allowed to staff as we please so there is even less time used then you think.

Theboss · Dec 8, 2019

Wow, not one admin comment on this thread.

Says a lot

susieqz · Dec 8, 2019

lucy, if you disagreed with them, you were probably right.

Theboss · Dec 8, 2019

susieqz said:
lucy, if you disagreed with them, you were probably right.

Countrypami · Dec 8, 2019

Theboss said:
So I recently discovered by accident that 2 members here were no longer staff members, @KingPin! and @JuicyLucy and it should be an embarrassment to @VaporJoe, @5150sick and the rest of the admins on here that members weren't informed.

This forum has a forum announcement section and this could have been utilized to put out a very simple announcement to it's members simply stating that these people were no longer part of the mod team. The classy thing to do would have been to add a line along the lines of - we'd like to thank so and so for their contributions to the forum over the time that they were staff members.

You can have class and not have to get into details around why these people are no longer staff members.

Anyway, just needed to get this off of my chest, imo it's a big miss from the entire Admin. We should not have to find out by accident when looking for help with something.

Although my interactions with @KingPin! were limited I did find him to be a really cool person to deal with, @JuicyLucy was the first person to welcome me when I joined here and she was always very helpful whenever I had a question and always quick with a witty comeback when I was being a smart ass. I'd like to personally thank her for all of her help over the course of my first year here. It's unfortunate your contributions weren't recognized when you left the mod team, but I know I'm not the only member here who will miss you in that capacity.

Hello @Theboss

I agree with you completely that @KingPin! and @JuicyLucy were a huge asset to the forum... and they are missed.

I certainly understand your disappointment and passion about them leaving. They both contributed greatly, as does most of our moderator staff. Despite our efforts in convincing them to stay, the decision to leave was theirs. Sharing that information publicly is also for them to decide. If we made a public announcement we would be infringing on their privacy rights. So we leave that up to them to share that information if they choose to. And we would hope our members here would also respect that same privacy.

We built this forum to mimic real life... if this was a real workplace, you would not receive notice that someone quit. I do not know of any place of business or other forum that does that. We have never promised full disclosure of our staffing methods or choices... however, our staff is listed here: http://vapingunderground.com/members/?type=staff and has always been available publicly. And you can see which staff members are currently online at the bottom of the forum home page.

Theboss said:
Interesting list. One of those people hasn't been on since 2016 and a couple of others last activity was in Oct.

Sounds like that would mean that the mods that are active give even more of their time to this forum than I thought and helps makes my point.

Yes, we have some mods that have not been very active and some that are in the trenches every day. We do not lock our staff into a time slot or tell them they have to be here any certain amount of time. After all, they are VOLUNTEERS and REAL LIFE comes first. Some of our mods have more going on in their real lives than others. And when they find they have time to give again, they'll give it.

As far as I'm concerned, our MOD TEAM ROCKS!! They all work together very well, and even when it's not about forum business they're always chit chatting away in our team chat.

Theboss · Dec 8, 2019

Countrypami said:
Hello @Theboss

I agree with you completely that @KingPin! and @JuicyLucy were a huge asset to the forum... and they are missed. I certainly understand your disappointment and passion about them leaving. They both contributed greatly, as does most of our moderator staff. Despite our efforts in convincing them to stay, the decision to leave was theirs. Sharing that information publicly is also for them to decide. If we made a public announcement we would be infringing on their privacy rights. So we leave that up to them to share that information if they choose to. And we would hope our members here would also respect that same privacy.

We built this forum to mimic real life... if this was a real workplace, you would not receive notice that someone quit. I do not know of any place of business or other forum that does that. We have never promised full disclosure of our staffing methods or choices... however, our staff is listed here: http://vapingunderground.com/members/?type=staff and has always been available publicly. And you can see which staff members are currently online at the bottom of the forum home page.

Yes, we have some mods that have not been very active and some that are in the trenches every day. We do not lock our staff into a time slot or tell them they have to be here any certain amount of time. After all, they are VOLUNTEERS and REAL LIFE comes first. Some of our mods have more going on in their real lives than others. And when they find they have time to give again, they'll give it.
As far as I'm concerned, our MOD TEAM ROCKS!! They all work together very well, and even when it's not about forum business they're always chit chatting away in our team chat.

Well that's disappointing to be honest. Considering you guys had two days to come up with a response that's really not what I expected.

Let me start by correcting one of your first statements, when someone quits in the workplace there either is or isn't an announcement depending on their position. For front line members it would rarely ever happen, but for someone in a position of authority it almost always happens. I run an international company that has sister sites all over the world and we do it for anyone in a position of authority. I also know that every single one of my suppliers and business partners do it. If it's a company with over 50 employees, I assure you it's the norm. It would be like a member leaving here, wouldn't make sense to announce it, a mod......different story.

Infringing on their privacy rights? I have to ask respectfully who's ass that was pulled from? That's a load of baloney, if you provided details surrounding said mods departure you may be getting warm with that statement, but simply announcing someone is no longer a mod certainly would not encroach on a person's privacy rights.

We're not even touching on the lost opportunity to publicly thank those that are leaving and have given so much to the forum. Optics in this day and age are so important, something that the people that run this forum clearly do not have a good understanding of. Although someone may or may not have thanked these people behind closed doors really doesn't matter when you have a couple of thousand sets of eyes watching someone leave and get no public recognition. You guys seem to run this forum like a business from the 70's or 80's, it would benefit you greatly to get caught up with the times and see how things are really done in quote - real life.

This thread didn't even need to happen, that's the funny part. I reached out to a staff member a week ago when I found out that these two people were no longer mods with some questions that went ignored. Just like this thread went ignored for 2 days until I posted today about an admin not replying. I've never interacted with Joe, it seems he's too busy posting sale threads to ever interact in a thread with us commoners, but when he built this do you think he envisioned a forum where people volunteer their time to make this a better place then are essentially ignored if they step down? You guys didn't even notice one of these people disappeared for 2 months or cared to find out why.

I know exactly how I would have responded to someone if I were you today, it would have been full of accountability and improvement, not deflecting.

I come on here because I like the vast majority of it's members and have made some close forum friends that I talk to outside of here, that's what keeps me coming back. I can assure you if it wasn't for those people I wouldn't participate in a forum where the admin team is too timid to make the right decisions.

*Edit* I want to be clear here that my response is not an attack on anyone. I am simply stating an opinion that I happen to know others share. Countrypami has always been nice to deal on the threads, my issue isn't with her as an individual, it's with the collective group that runs this forum.

Theboss · Dec 8, 2019

I'm personally done with this subject, I've let my feelings and opinion be known.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink.

Theboss · Dec 9, 2019

So now I have to deal with this bullshit on my profile page from a mod? Grow up

f1r3b1rd · Dec 9, 2019

Theboss said:
So now I have to deal with this bullshit on my profile page from a mod? Grow up

View attachment 151255

When and where we go is so important to you, I thought it would help

Just Frank · Dec 9, 2019

CJ-3 · Dec 9, 2019

f1r3b1rd said:
When and where we go is so importsnt to you, I thought it would help

Ok that's just funny right there.

Theboss · Dec 9, 2019

f1r3b1rd said:
When and where we go is so importsnt to you, I thought it would help

And it continues. More being added to my profile page. Keep it going, you clearly have the maturity of a 12 year old.

These are good screenshots to share with all of the new members that sign up, I'll be sure to warn them to be careful when calling out staff because you can expect to be harassed on your profile page. I was pretty clear above yesterday that I was done with this subject, now.....not so much.

Doesn't change my opinion of the admins here so not sure what you're trying to accomplish aside from showing everyone your maturity level.

f1r3b1rd · Dec 9, 2019

Theboss said:
And it continues. More being added to my profile page. Keep it going, you clearly have the maturity of a 12 year old.

These are good screenshots to share with all of the new members that sign up, I'll be sure to warn them to be careful when calling out staff because you can expect to be harassed on your profile page.

Doesn't change my opinion of the admins here so not sure what you're trying to accomplish aside from showing everyone your maturity level.

I am clocking into the office at the moment, would it be permissible to continue this conversation later?
I know you are an important person, but I really need to spend time making money at the office today. Little timmy wants expensive things from Santa this year.

Jinx'd · Dec 11, 2019

i just found this thread.

all i have to say is = i want some :pizza:

nadalama · Dec 11, 2019

JuicyLucy said:
Well, it is true, there are no announcements for new mods or old mods leaving - badges just appear and disappear - I can live with that

I did not quit because I was moving, I quit because I had a profound disagreement with admin over moderating policy - it ran deep and in case no one noticed, I did not log into VU for almost two months - which had nothing to do with moving

However, I love VU (warts and all) and the vast majority of the membership are fine people and I have made many deep friendships here

It still beats the shit out of ECF

Some of the deepest issues I felt needed addressing on the forum have been rectified, I missed the good folks on VU and with vaping under threat worldwide, I did make the decision to become active again

Lucy, believe me hon, we noticed that you weren't logging in. I for one did not try to contact you during that time out of RESPECT FOR YOUR PRIVACY. I just hoped you'd come back, and I'm grateful that you have.

We also noticed that @The Cromwell did not log in for a while, and right now, @Artemis appears to be MIA. When someone goes missing it is obvious, but not up to me to ask questions or chase anyone down - if they felt like discussing things out in the open, they would without prompting.

The one exception that we mods did discuss and act on has been @VAPEROXX . That situation turned out to be quite different, but I will not elaborate on that here.

I just hope you were not inundated with PMs after this thread was started.

lordmage · Dec 11, 2019

i will admit that when lucy and cromwell left they both did what they needed to do. i did reach out to lucy via forum pm just wishing her the best and if she chose to relay anything i would have been glad to. i am glad they are both back they would have been missed

Jinx'd · Dec 11, 2019

i have a question. who is this "cromwell' guy ?

The Cromwell · Dec 11, 2019

Jinx'd said:
i have a question. who is this "cromwell' guy ?

An alien that no wall would keep out.

but I do have a long form birth certificate from this most recent human form.
So I could be president?

Jinx'd · Dec 11, 2019

The Cromwell said:
An alien that no wall would keep out.

but I do have a long form birth certificate from this most recent human form.
So I could be president?

sept a mime wall ...

bama didn't have a BC. so uh, ya, spos you could.

susieqz · Dec 11, 2019

crom is the inventer of the famous crom's custard.

CJ-3 · Dec 11, 2019

@The Cromwell is a villain from the most 80's of movies.

The Sword and the Sorcerer.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0084749/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0.

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