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Big Tobacco Watch - Vape Companies

Letitia9

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Personally I find there are too many coincidences at play. Maybe an ill conceived plan gone horribly awry isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Would love to be off base here but sadly it wouldn't surprise me if I wasn't.
 

KingPin!

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Personally I find there are too many coincidences at play. Maybe an ill conceived plan gone horribly awry isn't beyond the realm of possibility. Would love to be off base here but sadly it wouldn't surprise me if I wasn't.

could well be a plan that went awry but I have no doubt these companies have been positioning for a long time ...they aren’t just getting into hardware ...see imperial tobacco have control of the largest nic producer in the world there, they are penetrating from all angles waiting for the regs

they knew it was coming, probably helped shape it! they spend millions each year lobbying, how could they not?

also ....see this!

Altria has inserted one of its executives as CEO of Juul

https://www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/arti...take-advantage-of-the-mysterious-vape-illness
 
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KingPin!

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If the e-cig market takes a hit, British pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline also stands to profit with its new nicotine spray. The oral spray, marketed as a way to quit smoking, is already for sale in 45 countries through Johnson & Johnson, and just received FDA backing this month to bring the product to the U.S.


......

Last November, the FDA announced its intent to ban e-cig flavors and Commissioner Scott Gottlieb presented an outline of the ban to the White House in March. (The motive of these bans is, like many acts of prohibition, upheld as “protecting youth.”) When Gottlieb abruptly resigned in the spring, later joining the board of pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, the FDA’s flavor ban was tabled indefinitely
 

KingPin!

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https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic..._source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

haven’t watched it myself yet ...but this was the bonds part I was alluding to a few posts up

From the poster on reddit....

“the tobacco industry publicly announced that it had 'lost'(or pretended to) in 1999 by paying out $246 million to state organizations if the states would stop any further lawsuits by smokers against them...big tobacco would pay that amount in installments over a 25 year period(so they still have a few years left), and the states could do whatever they wanted with the money

so that sounds ok right? nope....first of all the tobacco industry only had to raise the price of a pack of cigarettes 40¢ more over the next few years to generate that money....next the states took out loans against that money trickling in, so they could spend it all at once, and on all kinds of stuff(not much of it ever went to help smokers) but they had a hard time paying back those loans; so in order for the states to pay the interest on those loans they simply raised the taxes on cigarettes”

more info on the bonds part (all places the bans came in first at the top)

https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/tbcbonds-statemap
 
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Carambrda

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If the e-cig market takes a hit, British pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline also stands to profit with its new nicotine spray. The oral spray, marketed as a way to quit smoking, is already for sale in 45 countries through Johnson & Johnson, and just received FDA backing this month to bring the product to the U.S.


......

Last November, the FDA announced its intent to ban e-cig flavors and Commissioner Scott Gottlieb presented an outline of the ban to the White House in March. (The motive of these bans is, like many acts of prohibition, upheld as “protecting youth.”) When Gottlieb abruptly resigned in the spring, later joining the board of pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, the FDA’s flavor ban was tabled indefinitely
They have been marketing the bejeezus out of it on TV here in Belgium where the online sales of e-cigs to consumers is banned because of the kids. But I don't see any of our politicians worrying about how these fruit flavoured nicotine mouth sprays might directly appeal to kids who are watching this:

 

lordmage

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here is something to think about Scott quit the FDA as head. he thinks the best way for vapes to survive is to go the NRT route by doing the two animal study and getting the modified risk product clearance and going Full NRT system then we have the device yet to be released which i showed here and i am sure if we dig into their team members we might find some connection somewhere for sure.

now we have those "Protect the MSA bonds for the Children Bans" and all these state emergency bans which can be extended or made into law without any public comments closing the market gap until the deeming enforcement date kicks in and going further to ensure flavors and companies close sooner rather then shift operations if they could. moving a company takes a lot of time and money that's why most will shut down namberjuice will be one even "MR e-cig" said he would be forced to shut down. then we add in the india ban which is about half of the profit for China which may even cause some of the manufacturer's to shutdown or shift focus to the next new thing that has government backing.

the market will end up more restricted and tied to Big T in someway then the underground which they will most likely leak more tainted carts and juice into causing more health scares which then allows them to shutdown interstate commerce and other actions to control the spread and only allow those closed "trusted" companies to sell.

i know most of us have prepped in someway and others will at least have something but Big T does not want you to quit buying and it is in there best interest to keep you coming back all those claws into company's are to help with (flavor profiling, Device features, other market research) to help them make a more tasty addictive pod. they researched the competition and lobbied ways to get them shutdown. the open market has been under attack from every angle. Juul quit the VTA simply because they got what they wanted out of the VTA which was there activism goals and for a time the stamp of the Vapers community now Juul stands at the end of this all ready to announce there new product with state and FDA approval may or maynot be a closed system but will be more addictive and require more money to keep working thur pods or a costly Nic juice.
 

Carambrda

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to help them make a more tasty addictive pod
I think you meant less tasty (i.e. tobacco flavored castration pod shit) to effectively encourage the switchover from vaping to IQOS and red Marlboro especially among teens and primarily to dissuade adult smokers from successfully stop smoking, i.e. by systemically murdering out the "successfully" part of that equation.
 

lordmage

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I think you meant less tasty (i.e. tobacco flavored castration pod shit) to effectively encourage the switchover from vaping to IQOS and red Marlboro especially among teens and primarily to dissuade adult smokers from successfully stop smoking, i.e. by systemically murdering out the "sucessfully" part of that equation.
possibly the end goal is the same Keep people addicted to something and spending more money on it.
 

Carambrda

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possibly the end goal is the same Keep people addicted to something and spending more money on it.
That plus spending more money on treatments of the various many illnesses engendered by it, all due to channeling more taxpayer money towards corrupt health science related research agencies, towards corrupt health organizations and their propagandist lobbyist campaigns, and towards yellow journalism and greedy politicians.
 

KingPin!

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agree both good points.

The age old .....One makes you sick, the other one keeps you alive longer, lining pockets and funding governments

the emerging threat had to be squashed, studies are irrelevant, only maintaining balance and control is on the agenda.

Suprised the Chinese government hasn’t kicked in yet, they are a sleeping giant with tobacco...cigs are so cheap there, all the time vaping is more expensive it’ll remain a backseat problem for them as it’s an export commodity.
 

Letitia9

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I don't know if they still do but at one time China vendors made generous donations to US vaping advocates and causes. Honestly China doesn't have much of a stake in US juice sales and they are already disguising gear sales on their shipping packages. I am now the proud owner of several toy remote controllers.
 

KingPin!

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here is something to think about Scott quit the FDA as head. he thinks the best way for vapes to survive is to go the NRT route by doing the two animal study and getting the modified risk product clearance and going Full NRT system then we have the device yet to be released which i showed here and i am sure if we dig into their team members we might find some connection somewhere for sure.

now we have those "Protect the MSA bonds for the Children Bans" and all these state emergency bans which can be extended or made into law without any public comments closing the market gap until the deeming enforcement date kicks in and going further to ensure flavors and companies close sooner rather then shift operations if they could. moving a company takes a lot of time and money that's why most will shut down namberjuice will be one even "MR e-cig" said he would be forced to shut down. then we add in the india ban which is about half of the profit for China which may even cause some of the manufacturer's to shutdown or shift focus to the next new thing that has government backing.

the market will end up more restricted and tied to Big T in someway then the underground which they will most likely leak more tainted carts and juice into causing more health scares which then allows them to shutdown interstate commerce and other actions to control the spread and only allow those closed "trusted" companies to sell.

i know most of us have prepped in someway and others will at least have something but Big T does not want you to quit buying and it is in there best interest to keep you coming back all those claws into company's are to help with (flavor profiling, Device features, other market research) to help them make a more tasty addictive pod. they researched the competition and lobbied ways to get them shutdown. the open market has been under attack from every angle. Juul quit the VTA simply because they got what they wanted out of the VTA which was there activism goals and for a time the stamp of the Vapers community now Juul stands at the end of this all ready to announce there new product with state and FDA approval may or maynot be a closed system but will be more addictive and require more money to keep working thur pods or a costly Nic juice.

just a brief look into Hava Health you linked up top

they are part funded by
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/16/village-global-fund/amp/

In exchange for equity, portfolio companies get investment plus mentorship from Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, Microsoft’s Bill Gates, Google’s Eric Schmidt, LinkedIn’s Reid Hoffman, Disney’s Bob Iger, VMWare’s Diane Green, NYC mayor Mike Bloomberg, and more.

look at the fucking names! all platforms who have been systematically drowning out vaping!!!


taken from here (one of the other funders)
https://www.sep.benfranklin.org/as-...adies-a-vape-pen-to-help-people-quit-smoking/

Israel and Serago have already raised a small seed round from some big names in the venture capital investment community, including Global Founders Capital, Make in LA, Backstage Capital, Quake Capital, Ben Franklin Technology Partners and NextFab.

Unlike other electronic cigarettes that are currently on the market, Hava Health and its Hale vaporizer are in the process of applying for approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to be classified as a smoking cessation treatment. The company founders see their competitors not in vaporizer vendors like Juul Labs, but in the patches and gums on offer from brands like Nicorette and NicoDerm

Gonna keep an eye on this lot ...was only linking vaping goings on in big pharma and BT however if any of these venture capitals have ties in that people find I’ll list it up ...they might well be above board and just getting ready in the niche space
 
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KingPin!

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https://amp.theguardian.com/busines...-vaping-in-us-will-hit-profits-imperial-warns

imperial warns of profit reduction amid vaping backlash (they were due to launch Nixx - a closed pod system and Pulze - heat not burn tech this year)

in other news Altria and Phillip Morris step down from merger talks after the vaping backlash (still joint ventures on some things as far as I can tell)

edited 2nd post to add these products
 

lordmage

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just a brief look into Hava Health you linked up top

they are part funded by
https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/16/village-global-fund/amp/

In exchange for equity, portfolio companies get investment plus mentorship from Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, Microsoft’s Bill Gates, Google’s Eric Schmidt, LinkedIn’s Reid Hoffman, Disney’s Bob Iger, VMWare’s Diane Green, NYC mayor Mike Bloomberg, and more.

look at the fucking names! all platforms who have been systematically drowning out vaping!!!


taken from here (one of the other funders)
https://www.sep.benfranklin.org/as-...adies-a-vape-pen-to-help-people-quit-smoking/

Israel and Serago have already raised a small seed round from some big names in the venture capital investment community, including Global Founders Capital, Make in LA, Backstage Capital, Quake Capital, Ben Franklin Technology Partners and NextFab.

Unlike other electronic cigarettes that are currently on the market, Hava Health and its Hale vaporizer are in the process of applying for approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to be classified as a smoking cessation treatment. The company founders see their competitors not in vaporizer vendors like Juul Labs, but in the patches and gums on offer from brands like Nicorette and NicoDerm

Gonna keep an eye on this lot ...was only linking vaping goings on in big pharma and BT however if any of these venture capitals have ties in that people find I’ll list it up ...they might well be above board and just getting ready in the niche space
see that's what i am thinking Scott did suggest we go NRT reduced harm and this company backed by all those is almost ready to take over the NRT system with a more successfully NRT system using what the stole and locked away from the Vaper industry
 

KingPin!

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Asian countries move to ban E-cigarettes

https://amp.ft.com/content/6a7f6924-dab8-11e9-8f9b-77216ebe1f17

Turns out China has awoken...

Beijing was already gearing up to regulate the sector, fearing that e-cigarettes would ultimately create a new generation of nicotine addicts at a time when the government was trying to cut the proportion of the population older than 15 who smoke, from more than 26.6 per cent to 20 per cent by 2030.

and in India

Shares of Godfrey Phillips India, one of India’s top tobacco companies, soared 9 per cent following the announcement of the vape ban India, while Golden Tobacco and ITC also recorded gains

Up to 3 years of jail time for selling, manufacturing exporting vape goods
 

Huckleberried

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Yeah wasn’t doing that when I read it from google ...follow Carams link same story at the top
I was able to read it when I searched last night, but when I went to post that link, it ended up doing the same thing yours did. Very strange.
 

KingPin!

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I was able to read it when I searched last night, but when I went to post that link, it ended up doing the same thing yours did. Very strange.

Financial Times is subscribed now ...usually I just get that message you did haha, they must have missed a trick there
 

Carambrda

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Altria report $8bn loss after taking a stake in JUUL ....wonder how deep those pockets are now

Vaping crackdown costs Juul investor more than $8bn https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51318910
My prognosis is the value will be on the rise again soon after the PMTA deadline kicks in, which will cause every small vaping manufacturer─which Juul are not─to be bled out financially by the FDA until finally, the only manufacturers that still survive will be big monopolizing ones like Juul because, as a matter of fact, the article also mentions this about Altria:

"It will continue to help Juul with regulatory services including the submission of its products, which contain nicotine, for approval by the Food and Drug Administration."
 

eSMOKA

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Ecig.com, DirectVapor.com, VaporBeast.com, VaporFi and SouthBeachSmoke were acquired by RJ Reynolds. Ecig.com was shut down and now redirects to DirectVapor.com

I also hear that RJ Reynolds owns or at least has some stake in VapeWild.com and TheVapeMall.com (an advertiser here on VU). But I cannot confirm these.
 

Jinx'd

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Ecig.com, DirectVapor.com, VaporBeast.com, VaporFi and SouthBeachSmoke were acquired by RJ Reynolds. Ecig.com was shut down and now redirects to DirectVapor.com

I also hear that RJ Reynolds owns or at least has some stake in VapeWild.com and TheVapeMall.com (an advertiser here on VU). But I cannot confirm these.

so, do we right these down and NOT order from them, hmmmmm......
 

KingPin!

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Ecig.com, DirectVapor.com, VaporBeast.com, VaporFi and SouthBeachSmoke were acquired by RJ Reynolds. Ecig.com was shut down and now redirects to DirectVapor.com

I also hear that RJ Reynolds owns or at least has some stake in VapeWild.com and TheVapeMall.com (an advertiser here on VU). But I cannot confirm these.

Thanks mate....have you found these companies listed somewhere associated to RJ? will list them out if we can verify
 

eSMOKA

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so, do we right these down and NOT order from them, hmmmmm......

Do not act in haste until you have confirmation and it is actual fact.

Thanks mate....have you found these companies listed somewhere associated to RJ? will list them out if we can verify

This is what I have written in a file on my PC...

===================================================================================
Turning Point Brands https://www.turningpointbrands.com
aka International Vapor Group, Inc.
aka Nu-X Ventures
was owned by Lorillard Tobacco

Lorillard was bought out by RJ Reynolds in 2016..RJR owns the above companies which own the following companies/brands...

DirectVapor
Ecig.com (now redirects to DirectVapor)
VaporFi
South Beach Smoke
VaporTide
Riptide
Nu-X
Eversmoke
DirectCBD
Primal (hemp wraps)
VaporBeast https://vaping360.com/vape-news/37768/online-vapor-company-bought/
Vuse

RJR might own more than this. This is all I uncovered sometime in 2019 and have not revisited it.
===================================================================================

*About VapeWild:

There was a thread or 2 on Reddit ECR that RJR bought out VapeWild (or holds stake in the company) but no one ever uncovered the truth IIRC.
I believe It all started when VapeWild sent out an email or posted to reddit regarding it's "restructuring". Can't remember what it said.
But sure enough, soon after that they started carrying Vuse products.

**About TheVapeMall.com"
I don't recall how they made to my BT list. But I do remember that I was never able to figure out for sure if they were owned in whole or in part by RJR or any other BT company. But they also sell Vuse products and it's rare to see an independent vape shop selling BT equipment. That stuff is mainly sold in convenience stores and cigarette shops. But they may be totally independent of RJR and BT. I don't know.
 
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KingPin!

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This is what I have written in a file on my PC...

===================================================================================
Turning Point Brands https://www.turningpointbrands.com
aka International Vapor Group, Inc.
aka Nu-X Ventures
was owned by Lorillard Tobacco

Lorillard was bought out by RJ Reynolds in 2016..RJR owns the above companies which own the following companies/brands...

DirectVapor
Ecig.com (now redirects to DirectVapor)
VaporFi
South Beach Smoke
VaporTide
Riptide
Nu-X
Eversmoke
DirectCBD
Primal (hemp wraps)
VaporBeast https://vaping360.com/vape-news/37768/online-vapor-company-bought/
Vuse

RJR might own more than this. This is all I uncovered sometime in 2019 and have not revisited it.
===================================================================================

*About VapeWild:

There was a thread or 2 on Reddit ECR that RJR bought out VapeWild (or holds stake in the company) but no one ever uncovered the truth IIRC.
I believe It all started when VapeWild sent out an email or posted to reddit regarding it's "restructuring". Can't remember what it said.
But sure enough, soon after that they started carrying Vuse products.

**About TheVapeMall.com"
I don't recall how they made to my BT list. But I do remember that I was never able to figure out for sure if they were owned in whole or in part by RJR or any other BT company. But they also sell Vuse products and it's rare to see an independent vape shop selling BT equipment. That stuff is mainly sold in convenience stores and cigarette shops. But they may be totally independent of RJR and BT. I don't know.

awesome thanks updated post 2 under British American Tobacco (who now own Reynolds)
 

SteveS45

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This is what I have written in a file on my PC...

===================================================================================
Turning Point Brands https://www.turningpointbrands.com
aka International Vapor Group, Inc.
aka Nu-X Ventures
was owned by Lorillard Tobacco

Lorillard was bought out by RJ Reynolds in 2016..RJR owns the above companies which own the following companies/brands...

DirectVapor
Ecig.com (now redirects to DirectVapor)
VaporFi
South Beach Smoke
VaporTide
Riptide
Nu-X
Eversmoke
DirectCBD
Primal (hemp wraps)
VaporBeast https://vaping360.com/vape-news/37768/online-vapor-company-bought/
Vuse

RJR might own more than this. This is all I uncovered sometime in 2019 and have not revisited it.
===================================================================================

*About VapeWild:

There was a thread or 2 on Reddit ECR that RJR bought out VapeWild (or holds stake in the company) but no one ever uncovered the truth IIRC.
I believe It all started when VapeWild sent out an email or posted to reddit regarding it's "restructuring". Can't remember what it said.
But sure enough, soon after that they started carrying Vuse products.

**About TheVapeMall.com"
I don't recall how they made to my BT list. But I do remember that I was never able to figure out for sure if they were owned in whole or in part by RJR or any other BT company. But they also sell Vuse products and it's rare to see an independent vape shop selling BT equipment. That stuff is mainly sold in convenience stores and cigarette shops. But they may be totally independent of RJR and BT. I don't know.

I was looking into this and did not find anything on the actual sites for the companies except Vuse which is well know.
 

KingPin!

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I was looking into this and did not find anything on the actual sites for the companies except Vuse which is well know.

it’s a ballache following the string like all of these so far

direct CBD and riptide are listed under Nu-X, under turning point brands

and turning point brands acquired international Vapor group limited ...follow that string and you’ll see them referring to this parent

let’s take the top one VaporFi

https://www.vaporfi.co.uk/our-company/
 

SteveS45

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it’s a ballache following the string like all of these so far

direct CBD and riptide are listed under Nu-X, under turning point brands

and turning point brands acquired international Vapor group limited ...follow that string and you’ll see them referring to this parent

let’s take the top one VaporFi

https://www.vaporfi.co.uk/our-company/

I am talking about seeing a Tobacco Company Name listed on the website like you see with Vuse.
 

KingPin!

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I am talking about seeing a Tobacco Company Name listed on the website like you see with Vuse.

they don’t ordinarily list stuff unless it’s a main brand like that ....have to delve deeper behind multiple subsidiaries to get to this level of info

would be really helpful if they did though :cheers:
 

SteveS45

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they don’t ordinarily list stuff unless it’s a main brand like that ....have to delve deeper behind multiple subsidiaries to get to this level of info

would be really helpful if they did though :cheers:

I find that when you look into the About on a Webpage you find out who owns the company and most BT Companies are proud to show ownership.
 

eSMOKA

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@KingPin! You can add VaporShark to RJRs list if it isn't already.

I find that when you look into the About on a Webpage you find out who owns the company and most BT Companies are proud to show ownership.

That isn't always the case. All this used to be on their website, but they took it down. You have to use google and other tools to dig deeper.

Archive.org has their "our business" page archived from 2018. That page has a link to an "electronic vapor" section. That no longer exists on the current site. It could be they started a new venture and put their electronic cig brand under that venture instead. Dunno.

Archived "Electronic Vapor" section showed VB, V2 and VS...
https://web.archive.org/web/2018030....com/our-business/businesses/electronic-vapor

https://www.turningpointbrands.com/investor-relations/news-releases/2017/03-20-2017-150303876

This PDF shows Vapor Beast (Smoke Free Technologies), Vapor Shark and VaporFi

https://www.turningpointbrands.com/...-Brands/reports-and-presentations/ar-2018.pdf

(CTRL+F is your friend)

Direct vapor
https://www.turningpointbrands.com/investor-relations/news-releases/2019/08-02-2019-150012226

Its not as simple as going to a website, looking at the pages they want you to easily find and just up there.

You'd be surprised at who owns what when you pick up the virtual shovel and do some manual labor, and that doesn't go for just vape.
 

SteveS45

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@KingPin! You can add VaporShark to RJRs list if it isn't already.



That isn't always the case. All this used to be on their website, but they took it down. You have to use google and other tools to dig deeper.

Archive.org has their "our business" page archived from 2018. That page has a link to an "electronic vapor" section. That no longer exists on the current site. It could be they started a new venture and put their electronic cig brand under that venture instead. Dunno.

Archived "Electronic Vapor" section showed VB, V2 and VS...
https://web.archive.org/web/2018030....com/our-business/businesses/electronic-vapor

https://www.turningpointbrands.com/investor-relations/news-releases/2017/03-20-2017-150303876

This PDF shows Vapor Beast (Smoke Free Technologies), Vapor Shark and VaporFi

https://www.turningpointbrands.com/...-Brands/reports-and-presentations/ar-2018.pdf

(CTRL+F is your friend)

Direct vapor
https://www.turningpointbrands.com/investor-relations/news-releases/2019/08-02-2019-150012226

Its not as simple as going to a website, looking at the pages they want you to easily find and just up there.

You'd be surprised at who owns what when you pick up the virtual shovel and do some manual labor, and that doesn't go for just vape.

Another easy thing is to use WHOis or ARIN to name just a few. BT isn't afraid to show ownership.
 

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