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New study provides increasing evidence base substantiating vaping’s harm reduction potential

5150sick

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https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...g-vapinge28099s-harm-reduction-potential.aspx

Cells were repeatedly exposed to either 30, 60 or 90 puffs of vapour, smoke and air over 4 weeks, and the results were conclusive. While myblu vapour delivered significantly more nicotine compared to the cigarette smoke, it did not trigger any significant toxicological responses under test conditions.

Arguably the most striking observation involved the cilia on the surface of the cells- mobile, hair-like structures that line the airways and lungs, helping keep them clear of mucus and dirt. After 4 weeks of repeated exposure to undiluted myblu vapour, there was no recorded decrease in either the number of cilia, or the number of ciliated cells. In fact, tissue integrity was indistinguishable from air control. The observations were in marked contrast to cigarette smoke's negative impact on lung cells, even when diluted at 1:17 ratio.
 

The Cromwell

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Since it's funded by BT in the end - and BP, that's not reassuring.
Yeah kinda sucks. But anything positive for vaping is a good thig.
And even if we wind up with only closed systems and such from BT it is still an option to get off of cigs.

But yeah still sucky for vaping as we currently know it.

My prediction all along has been for only closed systems to be approved.
Not wishful thinking by any stretch but how I see it coming down.
Hopefully I am wrong.
 

Carambrda

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And even if we wind up with only closed systems and such from BT it is still an option to get off of cigs.
It is an option to TRY and get off of cigs. The sad truth is that, when talking about getting off of cigs, closed systems don't typically offer a very heavy chance of success because how I see things they're essentially just a means to promote dual use, which, in turn, significantly increases the risk of relapsing back to cigs... call it a trojan horse strategy, and the reason why the strategy works is because... well, you're making it obviously clear the fact you already walked right into their trap by describing it as positive and a good thing, which, also obviously of course, it most certainly isn't.
 

The Cromwell

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It is an option to TRY and get off of cigs. The sad truth is that, when talking about getting off of cigs, closed systems don't typically offer a very heavy chance of success because how I see things they're essentially just a means to promote dual use, which, in turn, significantly increases the risk of relapsing back to cigs... call it a trojan horse strategy, and the reason why the strategy works is because... well, you're making it obviously clear the fact you already walked right into their trap by describing it as positive and a good thing, which, also obviously of course, it most certainly isn't.
Cigalikes got me off of cigs.
 

Carambrda

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Cigalikes got me off of cigs.
Do you mean to tell me everyone who can't either use cigalikes or use non vaping related NRTs to get theirself off of cigs should just lay down and die slowly? Because that's what your typical response of "positive and a good thing" directly implies, which also is plain and obvious TBH.
 

Rossum

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It is an option to TRY and get off of cigs. The sad truth is that, when talking about getting off of cigs, closed systems don't typically offer a very heavy chance of success
Closed-system devices have come a long way since the "cig-a-likes" of 5-10 years ago.

I know they're everyone's favorite whipping boy, but a hell of a lot of people have quit using a Juul, which having been on the market pretty much unchanged for four years now, doesn't even represent the state of the art.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the FDA's upcoming restrictions or process, but I firmly believe that effective closed-system devices could be produced.
 

lordmage

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Closed-system devices have come a long way since the "cig-a-likes" of 5-10 years ago.

I know they're everyone's favorite whipping boy, but a hell of a lot of people have quit using a Juul, which having been on the market pretty much unchanged for four years now, doesn't even represent the state of the art.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the FDA's upcoming restrictions or process, but I firmly believe that effective closed-system devices could be produced.
while true you forget that all devices that do come must be almost a mirror copy of the grandfathering device or go thur a hell of alot of testing and approval which could take years and make and released device to cost prohibitive for the everyday vapor after all those cost will get recouped thur the market
 

Rossum

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while true you forget that all devices that do come must be almost a mirror copy of the grandfathering device or go thur a hell of alot of testing and approval which could take years and make and released device to cost prohibitive for the everyday vapor after all those cost will get recouped thur the market
I only said they could be made effective, I didn't say they'd be cheap. ;)

Actually, I suspect the devices themselves will be relatively affordable, but the consumables will be expensive; most likely in the same ballpark as smoking, much like is already the case with Juul or IQOS.
 

lordmage

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I only said they could be made effective, I didn't say they'd be cheap. ;)

Actually, I suspect the devices themselves will be relatively affordable, but the consumables will be expensive; most likely in the same ballpark as smoking, much like is already the case with Juul or IQOS.

Well black market will sure be open at someplace just a matter of how long stock will last if thee incoming get seized
 

The Cromwell

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Do you mean to tell me everyone who can't either use cigalikes or use non vaping related NRTs to get theirself off of cigs should just lay down and die slowly? Because that's what your typical response of "positive and a good thing" directly implies, which also is plain and obvious TBH.

That is not what I am saying at all.
I AM saying that cigalikes CAN get one off of smoking when all else has failed.
And having cigalikes and such that are grandfathered in is much better then having NO legal retail options.

And yes there will be black market vape stuff but the masses wanting to get off of smoking will know nothing about it.
The black market will be mostly for open system established vapers.

The vast majority of vapers do not visit sites like this or even buy their stuff online.
 

Rossum

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And yes there will be black market vape stuff but the masses wanting to get off of smoking will know nothing about it.
The masses wanting to get off smoking via vaping have had a decade to so. Let's face reality, vaping doesn't work for everyone, no matter whether it's 3 watt cig-a-likes or 300 watt lung-busting rigs. Check any on-line community or ask any vape shop; we're past peak in the number of people switching.

The black market will be mostly for open system established vapers.
What, you don't think China, Inc will make clone replacements for the consumable part of a closed system device? They already do exactly that with Juul pods, and they're already illegal due to trademark infringement (among other reasons). Yet in some places, they're ubiquitous.
 

The Cromwell

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Clones and black market are not the same thing in this context.
China cloning stuff has very little to do with the Deeming Regs.
Or the public perception of vaping.

And i have always said that vaping does not work for everyone, and some cannot even tolerate it.

Masses was an unfortunate choice of words.
Not sure what got your panties in a wad though?

Edit: Had a power hit and that post turned up a bit scrambled.
Fixed.
 
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PoppaVic

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The masses wanting to get off smoking via vaping have had a decade to so.
I don't believe the 'decade' is accurate - I remember suffering cigalikes and eGo's as well as godawful atty-heads and materials. That was around 2012+ and I went along with that trash until about 2014. Even the mechs were mostly trash..

However, I will say there's been at least 5 solid years of innovation and improvement. I know I'm down to 10% of the nicotine I started at, and I suspect the liter I have left - 100mg I thinned down to 50mg - will likely last longer than the feds staying out of the mix. I think there is a ton of info now on YT, ECF and here - as well as dozens of other sites of variable value. As long as that info is available, folks CAN get off burning plantmatter.. If they want.
 

Rossum

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I don't believe the 'decade' is accurate - I remember suffering cigalikes and eGo's as well as godawful atty-heads and materials. That was around 2012+ and I went along with that trash until about 2014.
I base the "decade" on the number of people I've seen on ECF with start dates there in 2009. There's quite a lot of them.

Also the FDA has stated there are some products that would meet the February 2007 grandfather/predicate date, and thereby not require a PMTA, but they won't tell anyone what they are, and do seriously doubt anyone would want to use them.
 

PoppaVic

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Yeah, if we go backwards, at least slap together yer own PWM dual-cell box.. gods, we had some raggedy-ass garbage by 2012 - I'm afraid to think of the stuff before then.

On the upside, they were prolly locally/homemade so the circuits and wires were not chinee junk. (remember looking inside eGO's and stuff? ewwwww)
 

PoppaVic

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Yeah, if we go backwards, at least slap together yer own PWM dual-cell box.. gods, we had some raggedy-ass garbage by 2012 - I'm afraid to think of the stuff before then.

On the upside, they were prolly locally/homemade so the circuits and wires were not chinee junk. (remember looking inside eGO's and stuff? ewwwww)
 

The Cromwell

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Quite a lot on ECF and other vape boards, but latest estimates place the number of vapers in the USA at around 10.8 million.
We are a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of vapers in the USA and several on ECF and here are from other countrys.
Most vapers count on the B&M retail vape outlets, both for supplies and knowledge.

Most vapers are probably not even aware of Rip Trippers!
LOL
 

Carambrda

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Closed-system devices have come a long way since the "cig-a-likes" of 5-10 years ago.
Classical old strawman argument... I never said they haven't.
I know they're everyone's favorite whipping boy, but a hell of a lot of people have quit using a Juul, which having been on the market pretty much unchanged for four years now, doesn't even represent the state of the art.
My point was that anyone who thinks throwing those who can't get off of cigs by using typical low powered closed system devices under the bus is positive and a good thing deserves to get cancer.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the FDA's upcoming restrictions or process, but I firmly believe that effective closed-system devices could be produced.
I'm not getting you wrong. Despite I'm not getting you wrong, they still all fully deserve to get cancer, and in fact they deserve to get it twice.
 
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Carambrda

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That is not what I am saying at all.
I AM saying that cigalikes CAN get one off of smoking when all else has failed.
This classic tale is for the fairies. There's still a fuck ton more smokers out there who can not get off of cigs using closed systems than there are ex smokers who have managed to pull it off using closed systems so either you want to throw those who can only be helped with higher wattage rebuildables under the bus or you don't want to throw them under the bus... just make up your mind already.
 

NGAHaze

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This classic tale is for the fairies. There's still a fuck ton more smokers out there who can not get off of cigs using closed systems than there are ex smokers who have managed to pull it off using closed systems so either you want to throw those who can only be helped with higher wattage rebuildables under the bus or you don't want to throw them under the bus... just make up your mind already.

Why don't you get off your high horse and quit taking comments in this thread out of context. Yeah, we get it, you're a clouds bro dude and yes, we understand that some folks require big air in order to ditch the sticks. Nobody here ever said anything to the contrary yet you keep trying to skew things seemingly bent on starting a fight for whatever reason.

Regardless of the purpose or intent, it doesn't justify wishing cancer on somebody, that's seriously twisted and ruins any chance you had of someone viewing your position in a positive manner. I seriously doubt that if you had ever dealt with cancer on a personal level, you would be so quick to wish it on others.
 

The Cromwell

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This classic tale is for the fairies. There's still a fuck ton more smokers out there who can not get off of cigs using closed systems than there are ex smokers who have managed to pull it off using closed systems so either you want to throw those who can only be helped with higher wattage rebuildables under the bus or you don't want to throw them under the bus... just make up your mind already.
You of course have factual numbers/statistics to back that up?
Remember that vapers on boards like this make up less than .0001% of the total vapers in the USA.

I never said that ALL smokers can get off of cigs using cigalikes/closed systems or even that ALL smokers can get off of cigs using any type of vape.
I said that only having cigalikes/closed systems to get off of smoking was better than having no vaping options legal for retail in the USA.

Vaping is not for everyone. I have said this many times in this forum.
It is too complicated for many compared to smoking a cigarette.
Or too much trouble and requires far more planning.
 
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Rossum

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Vaping is not for everyone. I have said this many times in this forum.
OK, we agree on this. We'll never get all the smokers to switch any more than the "smart turkey" crowd's methods will work for everyone.
It is too complicated for many compared to smoking a cigarette.
Closed-systems (aka "pods") actually address that complication. Yes, making fused alien guitar wire, turning that into usable coils, wicking them correctly, and then dripping every couple of hits is complicated. But replacing a spent pod with a new, pre-filled one is no more complicated than opening a fresh pack of cigs. I would suppose that ease of use is one of the reasons they've gotten so popular.
Or too much trouble and requires far more planning.
I've never understood that excuse. In my view, smoking cigarettes requires more planning because you can't just grab one or two puffs when you want them. Instead you have plan to have the 5 or more minutes available that it takes to smoke one; they're too expensive to light, grab a puff from, and throw away.
 

The Cromwell

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Every gas n go sells cigs, but getting coils for your POD? Or cartridges?
Need to plan to take juice and what if the battery runs down.
And if you drop your vape in a mudhole or something it is a lot more cost than buying a new pack of smokes.
Vaping in all forms is MORE complicated than smoking.
 

Carambrda

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Why don't you get off your high horse and quit taking comments in this thread out of context. Yeah, we get it, you're a clouds bro dude and yes, we understand that some folks require big air in order to ditch the sticks. Nobody here ever said anything to the contrary yet you keep trying to skew things seemingly bent on starting a fight for whatever reason.

Regardless of the purpose or intent, it doesn't justify wishing cancer on somebody, that's seriously twisted and ruins any chance you had of someone viewing your position in a positive manner. I seriously doubt that if you had ever dealt with cancer on a personal level, you would be so quick to wish it on others.
I wasn't taking anything out of context, just asking the crystal clear question of what exactly it is that's "positive and a good thing" about wanting to throw under the bus people who, like me, couldn't get off of cigs with medium powered devices, let alone get off of cigs with low powered devices. The big clouds are just an inevitable byproduct of how I need the vape to FEEL for it to be satisfying enough for me to even want to CONSIDER wanting to vape so instead of telling me to get off my high horse and right under the bus why don't you simply get cancer twice because IMHO that would be VERY positive and a good thing.
 

Carambrda

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That made no sense whatsoever.
Posting while impaired?
Stay positive. After you slowly died from cancer I'll come to your funeral where I'll be happy to explain how the fact that everyone else except you is still alive is extremely positive and a good thing... heck, I'll even bring my numbers and statistics to liven up the party atmosphere there.
 

Carambrda

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Vaping in all forms is MORE complicated than smoking.
If it's complicated enough that it's giving you a headache, then
FFzT.gif
 

NGAHaze

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I wasn't taking anything out of context, just asking the crystal clear question of what exactly it is that's "positive and a good thing" about wanting to throw under the bus people who, like me, couldn't get off of cigs with medium powered devices, let alone get off of cigs with low powered devices. The big clouds are just an inevitable byproduct of how I need the vape to FEEL for it to be satisfying enough for me to even want to CONSIDER wanting to vape so instead of telling me to get off my high horse and right under the bus why don't you simply get cancer twice because IMHO that would be VERY positive and a good thing.

Why am I not surprised that you still don’t get it. Nobody said anything about DTL users whatsoever, the only contention made here being that something, even if only closed systems, was better than nothing. Yet you come in, guns blazing, trying to accuse them of sacrificing those who need big air in favor of MTL users. Nobody said anything even remotely close to that. If you want to be mad about something and/or somebody, at least focus your energy on somebody deserving of it like the FDA and all the other entities that want to restrict and even eliminate the vaping products that we have available to us.

Despite your recommendations for my own health, I still wouldn’t wish cancer on you. I’ll simply suggest that you think better of it in the future because, well, karma's a bitch.
 

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