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Harsh Liquid

ScottishDuck13

Member For 2 Years
Hey guys,

Im an experienced vaper. Been a few years now, I build all my own coils and make all my own juice. But theres something I've never really found an answer to that hasn't been an issue for me for ages so thought I'd ask...

I used to get random harsh tasting juice before for no reason. Since starting on subohms and drippers Ive always stuck to 3mg and 70vg or higher. I used to love Pancake Man, one of my favourites of all time and probably the only non-fruit one I like however I have never been able to replicate it DIY so just caved and bought my first shop bought juice for almost a year cause I missed original PM so much. Got 2x 100ml bottle and put 1.5 Nic shopts in each one so that should only be around 2.5mg.

However I pulled the cotton out of my dual alien build and dry burned, rinsed and rewicked and stuck some PM in expected lovely nostalgia but its got that horrible harsh taste :'( I am gutted! Such a disappointment :(

So...
Cant be the build, the Aliens are only a week old and not even a darkening (never really used the last build)...
Cant be too high Nic cause Im on 3mg normally and this will only be around 2.5...
Cant be the PG/VG ratio cause its 80/20 and I tend to make 70/30...

With all of the above this should be MORE smooth than my normal juice if anything! i just dont get it and I really miss my Pancake Man. Any help would be much appreciated before I try tipping both bottles into a big one and diluting with more VG but I dont want to risk weakening the flavour if I dont need to.
 

Jimi D

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I was surprised how nic at 3 mg makes a difference. Give Carolina Xtract or Xtreme Nicotine a try.
 

nadalama

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Could be the nicotine they used. Some of it just isn't very good, regardless of how little of it is used.

One time I got hold of a flavor that made my mouth taste like metal. It was disgusting. I'm saying that just to say, sometimes it just isn't very predictable what could make your juice taste bad. If you've ruled out your hardware and settings, then any ingredient in the juice could be the culprit.

Maybe the juice mfr tried some cost-cutting measures.
 

ScottishDuck13

Member For 2 Years
Nah sorry maybe I wasn't clear... im in Scotland so affected by the UKs TPD compliance, we can't buy juice with premixed nicotine in anything more than a 10ml.

What I bought was 2x 100ml shortfill bottles (100ml of 0mg liquid in a 120ml bottle for adding your own nic shots). So from the shop they contain zero nic.

You should be adding 2x 10ml nic shots to make these 3mg but I only added 1 and a half shots each so would only be around 2.5mg. Again just to be clear, these are the same nicotine shots I buy in batches of a few hundred at a time to make my own juice, iv used the same nic for over a year in my DIY stuff, it's not that.
 

Wb80

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Hey guys,

Im an experienced vaper. Been a few years now, I build all my own coils and make all my own juice. But theres something I've never really found an answer to that hasn't been an issue for me for ages so thought I'd ask...

I used to get random harsh tasting juice before for no reason. Since starting on subohms and drippers Ive always stuck to 3mg and 70vg or higher. I used to love Pancake Man, one of my favourites of all time and probably the only non-fruit one I like however I have never been able to replicate it DIY so just caved and bought my first shop bought juice for almost a year cause I missed original PM so much. Got 2x 100ml bottle and put 1.5 Nic shopts in each one so that should only be around 2.5mg.

However I pulled the cotton out of my dual alien build and dry burned, rinsed and rewicked and stuck some PM in expected lovely nostalgia but its got that horrible harsh taste :'( I am gutted! Such a disappointment :(

So...
Cant be the build, the Aliens are only a week old and not even a darkening (never really used the last build)...
Cant be too high Nic cause Im on 3mg normally and this will only be around 2.5...
Cant be the PG/VG ratio cause its 80/20 and I tend to make 70/30...

With all of the above this should be MORE smooth than my normal juice if anything! i just dont get it and I really miss my Pancake Man. Any help would be much appreciated before I try tipping both bottles into a big one and diluting with more VG but I dont want to risk weakening the flavour if I dont need to.
When ever i used nic shots i had this issue. I just chalked it up to cheap bs quality nic shots. Didnt have this issue when i upped the nic from my big bottle of quality nic.
 

lordmage

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as a diyer i am sure you have tried a hot/Warm Water Bath to help disperse the nic shot in your Juice.
sometimes for me the harsh taste is air flow Wattage positioning of the coils to air flow...

That said the last time i had a harsh taste it was due to the Nic straight up. Same nic i always used it just did not store well or age well once to much air was trapt in the bottle... now i vacuum seal the bottle
 

ScottishDuck13

Member For 2 Years
thanks for the replys so far,

But nah... these are the same batch of hundreds of 10ml Nic shots I bought a few months ago, same brand I always use and i used them to make up some fresh juice (multiple different flavours etc) 2 weeks ago and they are all fine. I literally just took a few shots out the box to add to this 0mg Pancake Man so I'm like 95% sure its not the Nic. Well at least not 'bad nic' it could just be needing steeped. i am used to adding the nic with the origianl mix, so it will always get at least a week steep anyway. If I am adding nic to premade, presteeped 0mg juice, does it need a further steep then rather than just a really good shake? This could be the answer...

As for the coil position, I had this build in my Drop Dead that was working perfectly on some of my own juice, i just pulled the cotton out and rewicked, coils never moved so it shouldnt be positioning. Wattage... I started way to low for the build at 40w and worked my way all the way up to 100 and no change in the harshness. This is why this issue frustrates me, I guess its just the juice.

I did buy 2 bottles 1 was darker so must have been older so I used this one first and that was the harsh one. This morning i tipped both into a bigger bottle, added just a little vg and mixed them together so they are all one. Will give this a few days steep further and fingers crossed it gets rid of it, i really want that awesome flavour back!
 

lordmage

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thanks for the replys so far,

But nah... these are the same batch of hundreds of 10ml Nic shots I bought a few months ago, same brand I always use and i used them to make up some fresh juice (multiple different flavours etc) 2 weeks ago and they are all fine. I literally just took a few shots out the box to add to this 0mg Pancake Man so I'm like 95% sure its not the Nic. Well at least not 'bad nic' it could just be needing steeped. i am used to adding the nic with the origianl mix, so it will always get at least a week steep anyway. If I am adding nic to premade, presteeped 0mg juice, does it need a further steep then rather than just a really good shake? This could be the answer...

As for the coil position, I had this build in my Drop Dead that was working perfectly on some of my own juice, i just pulled the cotton out and rewicked, coils never moved so it shouldnt be positioning. Wattage... I started way to low for the build at 40w and worked my way all the way up to 100 and no change in the harshness. This is why this issue frustrates me, I guess its just the juice.

I did buy 2 bottles 1 was darker so must have been older so I used this one first and that was the harsh one. This morning i tipped both into a bigger bottle, added just a little vg and mixed them together so they are all one. Will give this a few days steep further and fingers crossed it gets rid of it, i really want that awesome flavour back!
with a proper heat steep you can get the mix and nic to blend better and skip most of the steeping. there are other methods https://onvaping.com/speed-steeping-e-juice-the-cure-for-a-lack-of-time/

to answer your question it is always good to hot water bath any mix that is changed. and yes that older bottle could have effected your flavor experience
 

ScottishDuck13

Member For 2 Years
well I have mixed the whole lot up into 1 batch now with a bit of extra VG. Planning on just leaving till the weekend and if still not right ill try the hot bath. thanks for the tip, Ive never needed to do that befroe since i alway just put everything in at the start and leave to steep :)

so note to self: even after just adding nic to 0mg, needs a little steep time or a hot bath.
 

MyMagicMist

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Member For 5 Years
So...
Cant be the build, the Aliens are only a week old and not even a darkening (never really used the last build)...
Cant be too high Nic cause Im on 3mg normally and this will only be around 2.5...
Cant be the PG/VG ratio cause its 80/20 and I tend to make 70/30...
With all of the above this should be MORE smooth than my normal juice if anything! i just dont get it and I really miss my Pancake Man. Any help would be much appreciated before I try tipping both bottles into a big one and diluting with more VG but I dont want to risk weakening the flavour if I dont need to.

It's a surreal day, okay ... why not?

"Peanut butter is the answer! I don't care what the question is, today peanut butter is the answer."
 

Synphul

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I would venture a guess that either the nicotine didn't mix well with the flavored juice and you got a 'hot spot', a more concentrated patch of nicotine. Or else the nic shot part of the nicotine you added was off. It could be that it oxidized if it was sitting around too long, not stored properly prior to you getting it. It could be a different nicotine supplier the nic shot company is using and bad quality nicotine. It could be that the nicotine is stronger than what they say it is. I'm not in the UK so not sure what options you have available to you. Try to find a titration kit to test the strength of the nicotine (hopefully you still have some left in the nic shot to test). Those nic shots could've been accidentally mixed stronger than what the label says when the company bottled them, you think you're getting xyz mg of nicotine but it may be higher. So you're expecting 2.5mg/ml and may have 3.5 or 4mg/ml.
 

MyMagicMist

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I would venture a guess that either the nicotine didn't mix well with the flavored juice and you got a 'hot spot', a more concentrated patch of nicotine. Or else the nic shot part of the nicotine you added was off. It could be that it oxidized if it was sitting around too long, not stored properly prior to you getting it. It could be a different nicotine supplier the nic shot company is using and bad quality nicotine. It could be that the nicotine is stronger than what they say it is. I'm not in the UK so not sure what options you have available to you. Try to find a titration kit to test the strength of the nicotine (hopefully you still have some left in the nic shot to test). Those nic shots could've been accidentally mixed stronger than what the label says when the company bottled them, you think you're getting xyz mg of nicotine but it may be higher. So you're expecting 2.5mg/ml and may have 3.5 or 4mg/ml.

That third option sounds to be a very high likelihood. People can make mistakes without any malicious intention. Lots of times people work exhausted and slip up by not paying attention crucially.

Apologies if it seemed I was belittling the OP's adversities with my last post. Not my intent, as stated I was having a surreal day. Recently dropping a medicine & probably too quickly, it obviously did more than I thought. In any case though, I likely out to not have given a smart aleck response. I apologize for that.

Oxidation would have degraded the nicotine, I think. Life throws curves though and in 9 out of 10 it might but this was 10 and it ramps it up instead. This is tough problem to diagnose effectively, so many different variables exists. Barometric pressure, altitude might be in play e.g.. No, not joking with that suggestion, these types of vectors often go overlooked but are indeed factors.
 

ScottishDuck13

Member For 2 Years
Yeah it's probably just something like that. The way the nic shots come is in boxes of 20 and I got 10 boxes. Think this is me about half way through and the shots I used for this were the last in the box and the rest had all been OK, had only been weeks since I used the others from the box.

I just hope the mix with VG fixes it and doesn't dilute the flavour. If it's still too strong nic or the flavours died off a bit I might buy another 100ml bottle of 0mg and mix it in with no extra nic... In theory that should work. Unless it was something in the juice itself!
 
And the result?
Was there a happy ending? Please let us know!
I have experienced it myself, and after a while it stopped. It may have been the steeping, at least for me.
 

pulsevape

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I'll throw this out there for what it's worth...I've been DIY for several years now, something I've noticed is..that when I mix a batch and let it steep for a week or two, a freshly opened bottle gives me harsh juice...but as I vape the bottle the juice smooths out...I've come to the conslusion that before I vape a new bottle of juice I want to try leaving the bottle open and exposed to the air for 24 hours before vaping it...I'm gonna give it a try and see how it works out.
 

ScottishDuck13

Member For 2 Years
Ahh sorry i forgot to update!

So I bought a 3rd bottle, and tipped all 3 into a big bottle without adding any more nic and shook up then put back into the 3 original bottles.

the harshness is now gone!

However, its still not as good as the old Pnacke Man. i dont know if the little VG i used to dilute has muted the flavour way more than it should or if its that the recipe is now being made in the UK by random companies rather than importing the original stuff but it just isnt the same :(

Its vapable but had i known before I never would have wasted £60+ on it all. resigned to the fact I might never get original Pancake Man again, maybe when we leave the EU they will lift the TPD regulations... might be some good to come out of it, probably end up getting worse! :(

Thanks for everyones help and tips though, will still be helpful for future. think im just going to stick to my usual fruits and ices :)
 

MyMagicMist

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Pancake Man data if helpful.

Flavor Profile: Pancakes, Maple Syrup, Butter, Strawberry, Whipped Cream

80/20 VG/PG

I would think one would look for a batter flavor to simulate the pancake flavor. I've seen various maple syrup flavorings all over. Butter shouldn't be too difficult to find, probably the trick is in finding "just the right" flavor of butter flavor for an individual. Strawberry is like maple syrup, lots of companies carry a stock of strawberry flavorings. Whipped cream as well seems one in perpetual stock.

It seems in my humbly ignorant of mixing experience, that it is going to resolve into finding you the "just right" taste for you. I don't mean it snarky but good luck in finding that, hope you do, sincerely. Damn crime it is when a person cannot find their favorite flavor after finding it once.
 

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