vaping at lower than 3v on 18650 lg hg2 batteries, safe?

atsamman · Jan 21, 2019

Hello everyone,
I have a revenger x kit that comes in dual batteries config.
I have installed 2 18650 hg2 batteries.
I am using a smok mesh coil with resistance of 0.15ohms that I bought from ebay.
and I am vaping at around 40 wats

here is my question:
on my mod screen it shows a voltage of around 2.62v which should amount to about 45 wats or so,
my concern is that I read somewhere that these batteries shouldn't be discharged at a lower voltage than 3v otherwise it might damage them.
is my mod defective or something, 2.62 is extremely low as I understand, a voltage of a dead battery.

can someone explain the issue?

thank you all.

MrMeowgi · Jan 21, 2019

Mod running volts is different from charged volts. It's using 2.62 to run the mod when firing. You're fine. Full charge on a battery is 4.2 volts. On my revenger kit I run my batteries about 3/4 down before I swap them. Unless you're charging through the device.

lordmage · Jan 21, 2019

just some light house keeping..
as i do not know the mod it is generally not good to discharge a battery that low.
that is either 2.62 avg across both batteries or 1.31 per cell which in my book is bad either way check with an external charger or ohms meter the batteries not the mod. charge external is always the way to go. you could also be seeing 2.62 under load but i will leave the more complex stuff to the battery junkies

atsamman · Jan 21, 2019

thanks for the replies.
I am charging through the device, still waiting for the external charger to arrive.
I tried different batteries and they all show the same voltage, I think it has something to do with the low resistance and wattage resulting in the low voltage.

all I want to know that this is not damaging my batteries, otherwise I will have to buy different coils with higher ohms which I wouldn't like to do as I really like these coils.

I will follow MrMeowgi's advice.
thank you

atsamman · Jan 21, 2019

MrMeowgi said:
Mod running volts is different from charged volts. It's using 2.62 to run the mod when firing. You're fine. Full charge on a battery is 4.2 volts. On my revenger kit I run my batteries about 3/4 down before I swap them. Unless you're charging through the device.

If I raise the wattage on my device to 60watts the voltage raises on my device to about 3.05v
I don't know if this is relevant, I'll let you decide.
also do you happen to know if the batteries are connected in series or parallel?

MrMeowgi · Jan 21, 2019

Same device. Mine is running at 3.13 volts. It's how many volts you're using to fire the coil. It's not how low your batteries actually are. And yes it is technically a series mod but not a mechanical mod. So you don't have to worry about the series specs as I think you're headed there with another question.

Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk

Vape Fan · Jan 21, 2019

Welcome to VU

Of the 4.2 fully charged volts the batterie(s) have, the regulated mod is going to use only the amount of volts it needs to achieve the wattage you have it set at.
The regulated mod will have low voltage protection and not let it fire when the batteries get to a certain low voltage (usually 3.0-3.2) and that keeps the batteries from being overdrawn resulting in damage.
You can check your manual or spec sheet to see what the mod's low [voltage cutoff resulting in low battery message on screen] is.

As you increase or decrease the wattage, if the mod shows the voltage when firing - you can see there that voltage use goes up/down as wattage does.

atsamman · Jan 21, 2019

Vape Fan said:
Welcome to VU
Of the 4.2 fully charged volts the batterie(s) have, the regulated mod is going to use only the amount of volts it needs to achieve the wattage you have it set at.
The regulated mod will have low voltage protection and not let it fire when the batteries get to a certain low voltage (usually 3.0-3.2) and that keeps the batteries from being overdrawn resulting in damage.
You can check your manual or spec sheet to see what the mod's low [voltage cutoff resulting in low battery message on screen] is.

As you increase or decrease the wattage, if the mod shows the voltage when firing - you can see there that voltage use goes up/down as wattage does.

you sir are making a lot of sense, but here's a pickle for you.
according to some guy on reddit who did some testing the low voltage cut off is 3.3v.
The low battery cut off in my mod is functioning as I have seen it before on extremely low percentages.

now here's what's puzzling.
when my batteries are about 20ish percent full they will still work but struggle to keep 2.62v and will drop to about 2.4v or even lower with considerably less vapor and taste.
If the voltage of the battery is still higher than 3.3v since the mod didn't yet show a low battery message, how come my mod will only deliver 2.4v or even less to the coil resulting in less power less vapor and less taste?

the link to the reddit guy
https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic.../vaporesso_revenger_usb_charge_function_test/

Vape Fan · Jan 21, 2019

atsamman said:
when my batteries are about 20ish percent full they will still work but struggle to keep 2.62v and will drop to about 2.4v or even lower with considerably less vapor and taste.
If the voltage of the battery is still higher than 3.3v since the mod didn't yet show a low battery message, how come my mod will only deliver 2.4v or even less to the coil resulting in less power less vapor and less taste?

the link to the reddit guy
https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic.../vaporesso_revenger_usb_charge_function_test/

Let's see if this is correct:
The 20% you see on the mod would be 20% of the voltage between 4.2 and 3.3cutoff. Could be that, with voltage sag at button push it's not giving you the volts you need for the coil/wattage your using. Saying charge me now or I'll quit soon. Are they newish batteries? Not that HG2's are bad batteries, but something that better holds it's voltage up might reslove that weak vape at low charge %.
edit: Also, not only the coil has resistance, the mod does too. What reaches the atomizer is a tad less that the voltage state of the battery(s).

~Don~ · Jan 22, 2019

Unless you have leads attached to the batteries when you fire them, the actual read you see on your screen is what it being applied to the atomizer and not the true state voltage of the batteries.

Batteries all sag when in use. fully charged HG2 (4.2v) will sag to 3.7ish (or lower) when drawn upon...and rebound to a voltage less than what was used.

So think it like this and hopefully this clears it up.

4.2v ...take a 50w toot...sags to 3.7v...

Now you have 4.1v rested

4.1v take a 50w toot...sags to 3.6v

4v take a 50w toot sags to 3.5v

This is just an example...

atsamman · Jan 25, 2019

thank you all for the replies, they definitely cleared things up.

my main issue now is that the batteries in this revenger mod are connected in series, which is shit in my opinion as the current doesn't get doubled like in parallel.
this creates a problem for me, bcz I can't really fully utilize the batteries.

If I vape lets say 50 watts 0.15 ohm 2.74v shown on the screen.
this translates to about 18.26A which very close to the rated 20A of the batteries.
when my batteries go below 40% they start to struggle keeping a constant 18A and will force a lower voltage to adapt as they are losing current.

only way to solve this would be using a higher resistance coil, a 0.4 ohm or something, which I find irritating as I really like these coils.

I just find it frustrating that Vaporesso doesn't make this clear to their customers, that it's ideal for this mod to be vaped using higher resistance coils somewhere around 0.4ohms as the batteries are connected in series.

BoomStick · Jan 25, 2019

Your calculations are way off. Take your watt setting and divide it by input voltage (total battery voltage). There’s your battery current when using a variable wattage mod. Coil resistance and voltage (volts on the screen) don’t have a damn thing to do with how much current is being drawn from the batteries. Only the watt setting and battery voltage can determine that. So 50 watts divided by 8 volts is 6.25 amps. Not 18.

atsamman · Jan 25, 2019

BoomStick said:
Your calculations are way off. Take your watt setting and divide it by input voltage (total battery voltage). There’s your battery current when using a variable wattage mod. Coil resistance and voltage (volts on the screen) don’t have a damn thing to do with how much current is being drawn from the batteries. Only the watt setting and battery voltage can determine that. So 50 watts divided by 8 volts is 6.25 amps. Not 18.

I don't want to argue with you cause I don't know enough about this but
I =V/R . where I is current V is voltage and R is resistance
and W= I*V
so W= V²/R
we have two known values here the W which is 50 and the R which is 0.15
so 50= V²/0.15
so V=√(50*0.15)
so v= √7.5
so v=2.738v
which is almost exactly what the coil is receiving

BoomStick · Jan 25, 2019

If you set the mod to 50 watts, this is what happens. The chip draws 50 watts from the batteries, then it outputs 50 watts to the coil. The combination of volts and amps on the input side aren’t the same as the combination of volts and amps on the output side. But both sides equal 50 watts. So battery current and coil current are two different things.

atsamman · Jan 25, 2019

BoomStick said:
If you set the mod to 50 watts, this is what happens. The chip draws 50 watts from the batteries, then it outputs 50 watts to the coil. The combination of volts and amps on the input side aren’t the same as the combination of volts and amps on the output side. But both sides equal 50 watts. So battery current and coil current are two different things.

oooooooh, I see.
but that must mean some power will be lost in the process.
and also my batteries must not be in a pristine condition then if they can't handle 50w below 40%
gotta take it up with the thieving seller who sold me those as brand new.

just one last question though, since the batteries are connected in series which normally means same A as a single battery which is 20A in this case, will the regulated mod be able to provide more than 20A to the coils or am I still confined to this number?
in example If I were to vape this 0.15 ohm coil at say 80w the mod should be delivering 3.46V to the coils at about 23Amps to power it, is that within the capabilities of the regulator even though the batteries are only rated for 20A?

thank you for clarifying my friend, much appreciated.

Vape Fan · Jan 25, 2019

atsamman said:
If I were to vape this 0.15 ohm coil at say 80w the mod should be delivering 3.46V to the coils at about 23Amps to power it, is that within the capabilities of the regulator even though the batteries are only rated for 20A?

Yes! It's like mod magic. It's a converter. Some mods have both buck and boost.
(Wiki)
"A buck converter (step-down converter) is a DC-to-DC power converter which steps down voltage (while stepping up current) from its input (supply) to its output (load)."
"A boost converter is a DC to DC converter with an output voltage greater than the source voltage. A boost converter is sometimes called a step-up converter since it "steps up" the source voltage."

atsamman · Jan 25, 2019

Vape Fan said:
Yes! It's like mod mod magic. It's a converter. Some mods have both buck and boost.
(Wiki)
"A buck converter (step-down converter) is a DC-to-DC power converter which steps down voltage (while stepping up current) from its input (supply) to its output (load)."
"A boost converter is a DC to DC converter with an output voltage greater than the source voltage. A boost converter is sometimes called a step-up converter since it "steps up" the source voltage."

Mod Magic you saaaaaaaaay?!! lets face off in the shity wok restaurant basement after midnight lol SP
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Then in my mod's case it would be a Buck converter
oh well, my batteries are shit and this problem has been solved and dare I say over-solved!!

thank you all

tejas240 · Jan 27, 2019

You have to split the amp load between both batts, so when you use the example 23 amps it's only like 12 amps from each battery, well within the 20 amp max for each battery.

BoomStick · Jan 28, 2019

tejas240 said:
You have to split the amp load between both batts, so when you use the example 23 amps it's only like 12 amps from each battery, well within the 20 amp max for each battery.

Wrong. Batteries are in series. Both cells see the full current.

tejas240 · Jan 28, 2019

BoomStick said:
Wrong. Batteries are in series. Both cells see the full current.

I'm just repeating what Mooch says, if you use a dual batt mod and use for example two 15 amp batts, you should not vape over 90 watts, 45 watt per battery. I'm gonna trust what he says.

BoomStick · Jan 29, 2019

Now you’re talking nonsense. What you just said had zero to do with your previous post. Good bye.

tejas240 · Jan 29, 2019

Nonsense to you, like I said, it's on Mooch's video's. Bye right back at you child.

BoomStick · Jan 30, 2019

tejas240 said:
You have to split the amp load between both batts, so when you use the example 23 amps it's only like 12 amps from each battery, well within the 20 amp max for each battery.

This ^ is wrong with a series, 2 battery regulated mod. This has jack shit to do with mooch. You’re a fucking moron.

tejas240 · Jan 30, 2019

Like I said child who likes to call adults names, This is what i'm talking about since you can't grasp it,

at around the 4 min mark he says what I've been saying. 20 amp for example he recommends 60 watts and two batts and you can do 120 watts. He talks more at 17:20. Now you're the fucking moron, Bye child for now and forever.

BoomStick · Jan 30, 2019

You’re still ignoring the post I corrected. Truly pathetic. Amps and watts aren’t the same thing genius.

vaping at lower than 3v on 18650 lg hg2 batteries, safe?

atsamman

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