Become a Patron!

Please help me with this question.

I am an immigrant, who is planning to make Canada my home, I am fascinated by the Canadian vapor industry, when comparing it with other countries, the industry is very matured. I was researching about the various companies that deal with e-cigarettes and vapor products, I found some interesting piece of information, and that is the basis of this question. I found a e-juice wholesalers in Ontario, and their service bundle involves, flavor development, packaging, labeling and delivering services for its clients. I think it is great opportunity, especially for a person like me, who have limited knowledge and experience about the same, but my friends warned me about the possibility of idea theft, which they say will in turn break my business. Guys, I am not convinced, does such things like idea theft happen in Canada, I mean, it could happen in countries like China, but I think strong regulations and paper works could protect me, in case of such events, but my friends are not convinced. Now I am confused, guys, give me your honest opinion, should I be scared of Idea theft (flavor theft), when I do business with a Canadian company. If so, what precautions do you think I should take.
 

G>O>M

Member For 1 Year
what your asking is more
can i patent a flavour
short answer is yes it can come under the copyright and patents laws
but
or
BUT
anyone making a copy for financial gain only has to change a few ingredients or proportions to nullify any protections
in other words they can make a very close copy .. but not an exact one
and as there are no accurate measures for actual flavour .. it can taste exactly the same and still be legally acceptable
see coco cola or the kfc recipes
anyone making it privately for themselves or non paying friends are outside the law

and it can be published as a very close match for free to use recipes so long as its not exact

as flavours are so much a personal thing small differences may improve it for some
and others making it themselves will always adjust to their own taste anyway
and
before you can patent it or demand copyright
you have to investigate every recipe published to make sure you are not infringing anyone else s free use or copyright recipes

one of the big problems with flavours is you have to describe them before anyone will buy them ... so
if your only ip is flavour/s .......
 
Last edited:

jwill

The Great King of Nothing
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 2 Years
VU Challenge Team
Reddit Exile
VU SWAT
You should be scared of intellectual property theft, and theft of business secrets no matter where you are or what you are doing. When you have to hand over your secrets to a 3rd party with their own financial interest, you become at a disadvantage. If you are producing something commercially and they decide to strong arm you because they know you cant do anything about it, what are you going to do?

Get a lawyer, draft NDA's, patent, copyright and trademark everything you can. More importantly you need to know every angle and have every base covered before you even approach the manufacturer. You should already be through your first round of attorneys and paperwork before even thinking about approaching an outside party.
 

Letitia9

Citrus Junkie
VU Donator
Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
VU Challenge Team
If you can't afford to lose the investment keep in mind the competition is fierce and more experienced than you. If your blends are popular some diyer will have a clone published in no time or as mentioned a competitor will copy it.
 

Izanagi7

Bronze Contributor
Member For 1 Year
does such things like idea theft happen in Canada

Yes. Read about Amazon’s practices with Amazon basics. If a sellers products do well, Amazon will copy it, make their own version and sell it for less.

People make clones of e liquids all the time, vape shops often have their own house line and will make their own version of premium juices and sell them cheaper.

It’s an extremely competitive market. I think you have to be very knowledgeable and careful if you choose to do business in this space.


Sent from Star Destroyer Executor
 

dez

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
I am an immigrant, who is planning to make Canada my home, I am fascinated by the Canadian vapor industry, when comparing it with other countries, the industry is very matured. I was researching about the various companies that deal with e-cigarettes and vapor products, I found some interesting piece of information, and that is the basis of this question. I found a e-juice wholesalers in Ontario, and their service bundle involves, flavor development, packaging, labeling and delivering services for its clients. I think it is great opportunity, especially for a person like me, who have limited knowledge and experience about the same, but my friends warned me about the possibility of idea theft, which they say will in turn break my business. Guys, I am not convinced, does such things like idea theft happen in Canada, I mean, it could happen in countries like China, but I think strong regulations and paper works could protect me, in case of such events, but my friends are not convinced. Now I am confused, guys, give me your honest opinion, should I be scared of Idea theft (flavor theft), when I do business with a Canadian company. If so, what precautions do you think I should take.
Copyrighting your flavor and getting a patent on it doesn't mean that you can only patent the exact formulation. For example, I know a lot about skin care which is why I'm giving you this example.

There is a company called SkinCeuticals who makes a vitamin C + vitamin E + ferulic acid serum, which is their original patent.. and instead of just patenting the EXACT PROPORTIONS of each ingredient used in this combination, they put under patent A PERCENTAGE RANGE OF EACH INGREDIENT USED.
Their patent has just expired, but for example, their patent was let's say.. 20% l-ascorbic acid-( which is the strongest type of vitamin C), 1% vitamin E, & 0.5% ferulic acid.
So to protect someone from copying their patent and only changing one ingredient and being able to make the same amount of money off of the stolen idea, they patented a range of each ingredient so that anyone who made a vitamin C serum with these same ingredients would not be able to use any amount that would make a proper vitamin C serum .

For example, for their Vitamin C, they copyrighted not just the 20% that they use, but the range of 5 - 20%. Instead of patenting just the 1% of vitamin E, they patented anything in the range between 0.5% to 2%. They did the same with the ferulick acid, patenting any range that would make the substance viable.

This way, no one can come under them and make it at 19% L ascorbic acid, vitamin C , without permission- and for seven years this kept the market for a vitamin C that did not degrade easily solely to that company that made $160.00 an ounce, because of the patent.
The patent is just now expiring.. so other companies can make similar products, but if you wanted that formulation in the past, which was the gold standard vitamin C serum, you had to pay that $160 an ounce for the serum.

Now you can buy serums that are almost exactly the same for about $20 companies that have changed there vitamin C content from 20% to 21% and kept the rest of the ingredients the exact same.
Hope this helps explain what you need to think about when you patent something to you! Good luck! Dez
 

Hype

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I live in Ontario Canada , I travel a lot through the province . Especially in the summer . I go thru juice like all of us do , most of the time all you have to do is take your juice to a shop and they match it up very well with their ( house line ) as it is known . No matter where I have been everybody has to eat . So in a nutshell idea theft is rampant in the industry here . I'm not defending anyone here but it seems to me like there is no controls or policing of any kind here . They all claim that is is their version or it's like another blend but in the end it's blatant theft . Change the name , change the label , offer deals and so on . In the end nobody cares and they all need to make money to stay open . Sad but true . Hope this helps .
 
Last edited:

VU Sponsors

Top