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How does vaping help quit smoking if nicotine isn't addictive.

jwill

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Agreed.

I took a trip around the country by train and only vaped on the smoke stops. Hell a number of times I didn't feel like getting off the train. The detox would be just like getting off of coffee which I did some years back, now I only occasionally drink it but not like the mass quantities that I used to. The effects are grumpy, headache and feeling a bit lethargic for a couple of weeks. Comparing this to hard core drugs is fucking ludicrous

Who compared kicking nicotine to hard core drugs? I have been reading through this and it keeps getting referenced and Im not seeing it?
 

AndriaD

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I vape at 3mg right now. But when I was still smoking cigarettes I couldn't function normally for an hour without smoking another cigarette... waiting much longer than an hour made me crave so hard it felt like going through hell on every occasion, whereas right now I can go without vaping for hours on end and still not feel more than just a little bit uncomfortable, and that is despite from time to time I can use up juice like a firetruck can use up water.

I was much the same, as a smoker; even an hour without a smoke just about killed me -- I loved that show True Blood, but it irked the shit out of me that it was on HBO and thus had no commercials -- I'd sometimes have to go out and grab a few puffs in the middle of the show just to get by.

It was a good thing that I had already been sober for over 20 yrs when my local AA room went smoke-free, because an AA meeting without smoking is damn near unbearable. Now they even have a sign that the smoking ban includes e-cigarettes. :facepalm: Luckily I've been sober for 26 yrs and have internalized the "program"... but after my mom died, I did attend a meeting -- and yeah, an AA meeting even without vaping is still rough, but a lot more do-able than without smoking! And the cigarettes I smoked for about the last 20 yrs of my smoking were ultra-lights -- very little nicotine, but still with the full complement of "tobacco alkaloids" -- which might explain why WTA was so necessary for me, though nicotine has been a non-issue almost since the beginning of vaping.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Who compared kicking nicotine to hard core drugs? I have been reading through this and it keeps getting referenced and Im not seeing it?

I think the reference was by virtue of comparing real addiction -- smoking, booze, some drugs -- with dependencies such as caffeine and nicotine. I've withdrawn -- cold turkey -- from booze and c*ke, and I actually found quitting smoking MUCH harder. If not for vaping, and then for WTA after my dual-use relapse, I'd never have been able to get free of smoking, as I got free from my other addictions. Mind you, the others weren't easy by a long shot... but smoking was much harder.

Andria
 

HondaDavidson

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Seeing the effects first hand I say bullshit

Nicotine is no more addictive than Caffeine, Sugar and a multitude of other things.
You are equating physical harm results with addictive nature of a substance.
Nicotine caffeine and sugar are less harmful.... doesn't make them less addictive. Just safer.

You don't have to be addicted to a drug to be harmed.... in fact many can KILL on first use. Via Overdose..



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jwill

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I think the reference was by virtue of comparing real addiction -- smoking, booze, some drugs -- with dependencies such as caffeine and nicotine. I've withdrawn -- cold turkey -- from booze and c*ke, and I actually found quitting smoking MUCH harder. If not for vaping, and then for WTA after my dual-use relapse, I'd never have been able to get free of smoking, as I got free from my other addictions. Mind you, the others weren't easy by a long shot... but smoking was much harder.

Andria

I myself have had to kick quite a few things. Smoking was absolutely the hardest followed by booze and then everything else for me. I could stay out of bars and not be around drinking, but I could walk down a sidewalk and encounter 20 smokers all just casually killing themselves slowly on the sidewalk. Walk into just about any store with a cash register and buy smokes. That kind of shit made smoking painfully difficult to stop.
 

AndriaD

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I myself have had to kick quite a few things. Smoking was absolutely the hardest followed by booze and then everything else for me. I could stay out of bars and not be around drinking, but I could walk down a sidewalk and encounter 20 smokers all just casually killing themselves slowly on the sidewalk. Walk into just about any store with a cash register and buy smokes. That kind of shit made smoking painfully difficult to stop.

Totally agree! Actually I *still* find those beer commercials to be a real trial, showing that golden liquid bubbling in the frosted glass... I start to drool and have to leave the room! And this is after 26 yrs sobriety, so imagine how they affected me at first. :facepalm:

I think one of the worst parts of the smoking addiction is the absolute ubiquity of it -- every waking minute of every day -- I found it very difficult when I first took my smoking outdoors, not even smoking inside my own home, for my son's benefit -- it was like every 20 minutes, at first, though I gradually got it to every 30-45 mins by the time I quit smoking. When we'd be in the truck, I'd light a cigarette... my husband would give me a funny look and say "you know you just put one out." I'd shrug and do my Schultz impression: I KNOW NUTTINK! Because literally, I DIDN'T know... it was completely unconscious. Quitting smoking means having to be mindful of that need EVERY WAKING MINUTE and even into your sleep, with dreams, and that is just plain tiresome, literally and figuratively and every other which way! Only vaping works to counter it, because everytime you think of smoking... you vape -- it gives you something to do INSTEAD of smoking, something that is actually kinda similar in many ways. That right there is the biggest reason why vaping works when ordinary NRT really doesn't.

Andria
 

Carambrda

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No more

No more than humans and most life forms are 'addicted' to oxygen.

Apples and oranges there.
I disagree about the apples and oranges part because, believe it or not, cows are creatures of habit... i.e. they crave consistency of the feed.
 

jwill

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Totally agree! Actually I *still* find those beer commercials to be a real trial, showing that golden liquid bubbling in the frosted glass... I start to drool and have to leave the room! And this is after 26 yrs sobriety, so imagine how they affected me at first. :facepalm:

I think one of the worst parts of the smoking addiction is the absolute ubiquity of it -- every waking minute of every day -- I found it very difficult when I first took my smoking outdoors, not even smoking inside my own home, for my son's benefit -- it was like every 20 minutes, at first, though I gradually got it to every 30-45 mins by the time I quit smoking. When we'd be in the truck, I'd light a cigarette... my husband would give me a funny look and say "you know you just put one out." I'd shrug and do my Schultz impression: I KNOW NUTTINK! Because literally, I DIDN'T know... it was completely unconscious. Quitting smoking means having to be mindful of that need EVERY WAKING MINUTE and even into your sleep, with dreams, and that is just plain tiresome, literally and figuratively and every other which way! Only vaping works to counter it, because everytime you think of smoking... you vape -- it gives you something to do INSTEAD of smoking, something that is actually kinda similar in many ways. That right there is the biggest reason why vaping works when ordinary NRT really doesn't.

Andria

Yeah, beer never did it for me but I understand the comparison. I was a bourbon and 'shine drinker (shine only later when I started making it and bourbon just wasn't doing it anymore). I am only 6 years in on January 1st of 2019 but whenever I catch a whiff of bourbon every synapse in my brain starts firing and my taste buds perfectly recreate that taste. Such a bizarre and terrifying phenomenon.


**Edited to add terrifying. It is when you think about it really.
 
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AndriaD

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Yeah, beer never did it for me but I understand the comparison. I was a bourbon and 'shine drinker (shine only later when I started making it and bourbon just wasn't doing it anymore). I am only 6 years in on January 1st of 2019 but whenever I catch a whiff of bourbon every synapse in my brain starts firing and my taste buds perfectly recreate that taste. Such a bizarre and terrifying phenomenon.


**Edited to add terrifying. It is when you think about it really.

I agree, it IS terrifying -- if I walk into a real bakery, I suddenly taste beer. I think it must be the yeast that provokes it. I loved beer when I was a toddler; my dad would give me little sips behind my mother's back. :giggle: So naturally when I was 18 (the drinking age then), beer was my first go-to. Over the years I learned to enjoy different kinds of wine and champagne, and gin & OJ -- after a godawful hangover on gin & tonics and was told it was the carbonation that made the hangover so dreadful -- then finally on to tequila shots, and don't gimme any of that wussy salt and lime shit, just a beer back. :D I got sober when I was 31, and for a while I really resented that I'd had to stop drinking so young, when others drank and drank till they were much older; but now I wish I'd gotten sober much earlier, like maybe when I was 19? :giggle: Maybe my life wouldn't have gotten so derailed. But it worked out; I met my (2nd) husband, to whom I've been happily married for 31 yrs, at AA. :) We "went back out" and drank together for 5 yrs, and then got sober together in 1992. :)

Andria
 

bobnat

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It's so difficult to untangle cigarettes and nicotine. I would be interested in seeing research done on never smokers who vaped with nicotine. I would think within a few years there should be enough people who just vaped to get some understanding on this issue. I'm pretty sure I've read some stuff about scientists using just nicotine on animals and they didn't display addictive behaviors.
 

AndriaD

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And comparing nicotine and caffeine detox, as we were a few minutes ago... Actually I think that rather than the godawful headaches you get from abrupt caffeine detox, what you'd get from nicotine-alone detox would be a mild headache, and a real problem with mental "focus" -- caffeine is an overall stimulant, whereas nicotine is more like something like Ritalin or Adderall -- it stimulates brain chemistry rather than the entire central nervous system as caffeine does. I know that we former smokers WELL recall how taking that smokebreak was both a form of relaxation, and could often serve to allow us to concentrate quite fiercely on some given puzzle -- and both of those effects are because of nicotine's ability to stimulate, and coordinate, the brain's overall biochemistry, and especially the dopamine receptors (which allows for that feeling of well-being and relaxation).

The "focus" problem is why I recently decided that increasing my nic consumption from 3mg back up to 5mg would be a good idea; for some months, I was finding I had an increasing problem with the "tip of the tongue" situation-- right in the middle of a conversation, having to stop and really THINK to find that right word, a simple word that I knew very well, but which just wouldn't leap to mind when needed. I'm now back to 4.6mg, and I find the problem has decreased substantially; I don't have to search my memory for clues to that "just right" word when I'm talking to someone! I can only blame that bell that can't be unrung -- my nearly 4 decades as a smoker, during which my brain got used to a certain near-constant level of nicotine... and 3mg just wasn't feeding the bulldog, despite having zero "withdrawal" symptoms.

Andria
 
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Carambrda

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And comparing nicotine and caffeine detox, as we were a few minutes ago... Actually I think that rather than the godawful headaches you get from abrupt caffeine detox, what you'd get from nicotine-alone detox would be a mild headache, and a real problem with mental "focus" -- caffeine is an overall stimulant, whereas nicotine is more like something like Ritalin or Adderall -- it stimulates brain chemistry rather than the entire central nervous system as caffeine does. I know that we former smokers WELL recall how taking that smokebreak was both a form of relaxation, and could often serve to allow us to concentrate quite fiercely on some given puzzle -- and both of those effects are because of nicotine's ability to stimulate, and coordinate, the brain's overall biochemistry, and especially the dopamine receptors (which allows for that feeling of well-being and relaxation).

The "focus" problem is why I recently decided that increasing my nic consumption from 3mg back up to 5mg would be a good idea; for some months, I was finding I had an increasing problem with the "tip of the tongue" situation-- right in the middle of a conversation, having to stop and really THINK to find that right word, a simple word that I knew very well, but which just wouldn't leap to mind when needed. I'm now back to 4.6mg, and I find the problem has decreased substantially; I don't have to search my memory for clues to that "just right" word when I'm talking to someone! I can only blame that bell that can't be unrung -- my nearly 4 decades as a smoker, during which my brain got used to a certain near-constant level of nicotine... and 3mg just wasn't feeding the bulldog, despite having zero "withdrawal" symptoms.

Andria
Watching Vaporjoe get detox'd on latest episode of South Park hurt my... ehh, what's that word... ehh... ehh... Damn... I can't remember the right word.
 

Carambrda

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Rather than make memes and post about your infatuation with me, you could always just rub one out and keep it to yourself. ;)
...Or not.

giphy.gif
 

BrokenChef

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So I see a lot of studies and such that suggest nicotine alone isn't addictive, or at least no where near what the government would have you believe. Now it's common knowledge at this point that there are other addictive compounds inside of cigarettes, but many suggest that nicotine isn't one of them in reality. However if this were to be the case, then how would vaping or any other way to quit smoking such as patches and gum, help quit at all? Also if a lot of the reason smoking is so addictive is because of the other addictive chemicals, then the same question is still true. As eliquid and things such as patches dont contain those compounds.

If any studies say nicotine is not addictive, they are FAKE AS HELL!!! IMO The ONLY reason I vape is because I am addicted to nicotine and its a better alternative to smoking and I dont smell like an ashtray. I lived on nic patches for 9 months, then nic lozenges for 2 years. I can assure you that nicotine is quite addictive with or without other thing added. Doesnt matter what product I use, if it has nicotine in it, it relieves my withdrawals... the higher the dose, the better/faster!
 

AndriaD

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If any studies say nicotine is not addictive, they are FAKE AS HELL!!! IMO The ONLY reason I vape is because I am addicted to nicotine and its a better alternative to smoking and I dont smell like an ashtray. I lived on nic patches for 9 months, then nic lozenges for 2 years. I can assure you that nicotine is quite addictive with or without other thing added. Doesnt matter what product I use, if it has nicotine in it, it relieves my withdrawals... the higher the dose, the better/faster!

No, sorry, you're wrong. You vape because YOU'RE ADDICTED TO CIGARETTES, which are addictive as all hell, but not chiefly because of the nicotine, but because of the ENTIRE COCKTAIL you get from cigarette smoke.

The tests which are "fake" are actually just biased, because they conflate nicotine with cigarette smoking. Which you seem to also be doing.

When you have been off cigarettes for a while, you will find that you need less and less nicotine all the time... so that would make nicotine the ONLY "addictive" drug with negative tolerance. Truly addictive drugs don't ever have negative tolerance.

Andria

ETA: for more info about this, read these:

http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/the-great-nicotine-myth.html
http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html

You will undoubtedly be as surprised as I was... if you are someone who can set aside your cherished beliefs to make way for new understanding.
 
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mikeyboy74

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What surprised me was how cigs permanently rewire you. Not sure if it was the nic or the harmful chemicals or the act or even the taste and smell.

I quit from 2000-2003. Then at a stessful time, I left work and found a full pack of Newports in the parking lot. Got home, went to the basement, said I'd only have 1 for old times. Felt like the hair on the back of my neck was standing up. Nothing so rewarding. Realized then that I had a lifelong struggle ahead.

As the much later song says, every that kills me makes me feel alive.
 

AndriaD

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What surprised me was how cigs permanently rewire you. Not sure if it was the nic or the harmful chemicals or the act or even the taste and smell.

I quit from 2000-2003. Then at a stessful time, I left work and found a full pack of Newports in the parking lot. Got home, went to the basement, said I'd only have 1 for old times. Felt like the hair on the back of my neck was standing up. Nothing so rewarding. Realized then that I had a lifelong struggle ahead.

I had the same experience when I had my dual-use relapse after my appendectomy -- I thought I'd smoke a little for a week or so till I was feeling more myself... and it went immediately to pk a day and beyond within 2 days, and took a damn month to pry those hooks back outta my flesh -- then 10 days later the cravings came back, and it required 15 months of WTA to keep me from *another* relapse.

But, I was done with the WTA in March of 2016, and since then, I wouldn't call it a struggle at all. It's just like any other addiction -- not even one, or the whole damn circus starts again. As long as I don't pick up a drink, I'll never be drunk again, and as long as I never light another cigarette, I'll stay a non-smoker. In times of stress and sorrow, I'd say it's a lot bigger struggle to remain sober, than remain smoke-free -- to stay smoke-free, all I have to do is vape. When my mom died in Oct 2016, I really wanted some chemical numbness, but I forced myself to a meeting, where I was able to grab some sanity and remember why I don't drink -- the thought of a smoke never even crossed my mind.

Andria
 

BrokenChef

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No, sorry, you're wrong. You vape because YOU'RE ADDICTED TO CIGARETTES, which are addictive as all hell, but not chiefly because of the nicotine, but because of the ENTIRE COCKTAIL you get from cigarette smoke.

The tests which are "fake" are actually just biased, because they conflate nicotine with cigarette smoking. Which you seem to also be doing.

When you have been off cigarettes for a while, you will find that you need less and less nicotine all the time... so that would make nicotine the ONLY "addictive" drug with negative tolerance. Truly addictive drugs don't ever have negative tolerance.

Andria

ETA: for more info about this, read these:

http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/the-great-nicotine-myth.html
http://www.ecigarette-politics.com/is-nicotine-addictive.html

You will undoubtedly be as surprised as I was... if you are someone who can set aside your cherished beliefs to make way for new understanding.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one..

I haven't smoked a cigarette in almost 10 years. When I first "quit", nicotine patches worked great for 9 months, supplied me with the relief I craved and certainly nothing else was going into my system from a cigarette. I would have continued using them if they weren't so expensive and didn't cause an itchy rash where the patch was. Then I used the lozenges for 2 years. They too gave me what I needed....nicotine. I got tired of constantly sucking on lozenges and having a white film on my lips so I started vaping. Also used chewing tobacco on and off my entire life. It too gave me what I needed, when I was in an environment where I could not smoke. Vape juice with no or low nicotine doesnt help me one little bit and I find it pointless. I can tell the nic level after 5 minutes of vaping whatever liquid you give me...either it's working for me or it isnt. If what you are saying was true, I would be able to vape zero nic and get what I need but that just doesnt happen and vape juice does not contain the same ingredients of cigarettes so if cigs are the addiction I dont see how vaping would suffice. It's the nicotine that calms my withdrawals, stops the shaking and lowers my anxiety. I feel like I have proven that to myself quite thoroughly. It doesn't matter to me one little bit what any studies say or show. I am going by what worked or didn't work for me and clearly nicotine is what I'm after, regardless of the way it enters my body. Reading 1000 studies saying otherwise will not change that. I am also not much of a believer on "studies". MOST of them are biased towards the view point of the funding entity. There are many multi million dollar studies that "proved" things that are now known to be false. Big Pharma, Monsanto, etc, etc are famous for this stuff. I'm quite sure the FDA and big tobacco are not immune to this. My grandfather used to say to me... "Believe nothing you hear or read and only half of what you see". And there are MANY instances where what's true for one person is not for another. It may very well be that some people are addicted to "smoking" while others are in fact addicted to the specific chemicals. I know for a fact that it's nicotine I crave. It's nicotine that calms my anxiety and stops the shakes, no matter what form it's in.
 

AndriaD

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We will have to agree to disagree on this one..

I haven't smoked a cigarette in almost 10 years. When I first "quit", nicotine patches worked great for 9 months, supplied me with the relief I craved and certainly nothing else was going into my system from a cigarette. I would have continued using them if they weren't so expensive and didn't cause an itchy rash where the patch was. Then I used the lozenges for 2 years. They too gave me what I needed....nicotine. I got tired of constantly sucking on lozenges and having a white film on my lips so I started vaping. Also used chewing tobacco on and off my entire life. It too gave me what I needed, when I was in an environment where I could not smoke. Vape juice with no or low nicotine doesnt help me one little bit and I find it pointless. I can tell the nic level after 5 minutes of vaping whatever liquid you give me...either it's working for me or it isnt. If what you are saying was true, I would be able to vape zero nic and get what I need but that just doesnt happen and vape juice does not contain the same ingredients of cigarettes so if cigs are the addiction I dont see how vaping would suffice. It's the nicotine that calms my withdrawals, stops the shaking and lowers my anxiety. I feel like I have proven that to myself quite thoroughly. It doesn't matter to me one little bit what any studies say or show. I am going by what worked or didn't work for me and clearly nicotine is what I'm after, regardless of the way it enters my body. Reading 1000 studies saying otherwise will not change that. I am also not much of a believer on "studies". MOST of them are biased towards the view point of the funding entity. There are many multi million dollar studies that "proved" things that are now known to be false. Big Pharma, Monsanto, etc, etc are famous for this stuff. I'm quite sure the FDA and big tobacco are not immune to this. My grandfather used to say to me... "Believe nothing you hear or read and only half of what you see". And there are MANY instances where what's true for one person is not for another. It may very well be that some people are addicted to "smoking" while others are in fact addicted to the specific chemicals. I know for a fact that it's nicotine I crave. It's nicotine that calms my anxiety and stops the shakes, no matter what form it's in.

Well, there are a couple points to consider. First off, you're not at all a "never smoker" -- you did smoke, and became addicted to cigarettes... and nicotine does play a role in that addiction, it's just not the "more addictive than h*roin" that we've all been told -- it's only one small factor in that addiction. And that addiction is the "bell that can't be unrung" -- it will always be there, just as my alcohol addiction will always be there, even after 26 yrs without a drink, even if I never drink again -- I'm still an alcoholic and always will be. As noted by myself and a few others here, if ever we decide to smoke again, that addiction jumps back on us right from the very first drag, just as insistent and inexorable as it always was, and each time we try to get free of it, it gets harder.

The other point, and this actually also applies to others here who feel that they too are "addicted" to nicotine, and that is... everyone is different. There are people who suck down coffee all day and half the night and never miss a minute's sleep... but deprive them of some form of caffeine and they will bite your head off and shit down your neck, just for the hell of it. Yet if I have more than a very tiny amount of caffeine daily, I start getting peripheral edema because I get so dehydrated that my electrolytes go completely apeshit.

And one other point, which I made much earlier in the thread: if you THINK you're addicted to something... then you are. Your brain will manufacture the symptoms to deliver what you expect. Exactly the way that a person addicted to opiates will constantly feel the pain that caused them to become addicted in the first place -- because the brain knows that in order to keep getting what it wants, it has to manufacture the conditions that will prompt you to give it what it wants -- it's a screaming 3 yr old and will throw a hissyfit every single time you try to exert mind over brain -- it really does take a very determined mind to triumph over brain, because the brain runs the entire physical organism. And as long as you THINK you "need" a certain substance, because your brain keeps insisting that it needs it, then you'll keep giving in to it. Until you decide that YOU and not your brain are in charge.

Andria
 

Pastorfuzz

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I think everybody's body is different. Some say the patches work for them. They didn't work for me at all. They only gave me some terrible nightmares that I normally do not have. I smoked 42 years and nicotine never gave me nightmares so I don't know what else they put in those patches but it wasn't only nicotine. That's why I stopped those. Tried Chantrix and that didn't work either. Still had cravings for smokes.
Got into vaping a little over 2 years ago with 12mg nic. I was like holy shit this is working. Still smoked along with vaping for the first week and that was it.
No more smokes. I'm at 6mg now and still enjoying it.
As far as the OP, I can wake in the morning and not even hit the vape for at least 3 hours and still not have a craving. I could not do that with smokes.
I would fire one of them up before I even rolled out of bed and chain at least 4 before the craving went away.
So I am in the same boat as Andria. IMO, it's all the other shit they put in smokes that is addictive. Nicotine not that much if any
 
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SteveS45

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Vape juice with no or low nicotine doesnt help me one little bit and I find it pointless. I can tell the nic level after 5 minutes of vaping whatever liquid you give me...either it's working for me or it isnt.

Nicotine suppresses the addiction cravings and since you were once a smoker nothing will replace that Psychological or Physiological addiction but Nicotine does suppress those cravings. It does it for me and I hope one day it can do it for you. After over 4 years without a cigarette smoking smells disgusting to me and I could never have a cigarette again. Did take a long time after quitting cold turkey for that to happen but it did. Good Luck and Vape On Safely.
 
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zephyr

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So I see a lot of studies and such that suggest nicotine alone isn't addictive, or at least no where near what the government would have you believe. Now it's common knowledge at this point that there are other addictive compounds inside of cigarettes, but many suggest that nicotine isn't one of them in reality. However if this were to be the case, then how would vaping or any other way to quit smoking such as patches and gum, help quit at all? Also if a lot of the reason smoking is so addictive is because of the other addictive chemicals, then the same question is still true. As eliquid and things such as patches dont contain those compounds.


Nicotine Is addictive. Ingredients in cigarettes block the brain's natural tendency to signal when it's "had enough" nicotine, so it gets flooded with a higher amount or nicotine than what we get from vaping.

Also during this process, while the brain gets used to high levels of nicotine, the body gets used to producing tons of anti-toxins to fight of the toxins also found in cigarettes - when someone quits using tobacco, the body continues making anti-toxins for a while - they build up and cause additional discomfort up to weeks after stopping. That's one reason any nicotine-based therapy isn't 100% effective.

The other reason, as many will suggest, involves other aspects of the haibt. My theory, and it may be unpopular, is that nicotine is actually So addictive that it can cause secondary addictions - or rather, trick us into thinking we're addicted to other things that are linked to nicotine. Things like seeing smoke, holding something in our mouths and lighting it on fire, the morning paper and coffee, whatever. I think it's actually nicotine that gets those things stuck in our head as being addictive/habits
 

AndriaD

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I think everybody's body is different. Some say the patches work for them. They didn't work for me at all. They only gave me some terrible nightmares that I normally do not have. I smoked 42 years and nicotine never gave me nightmares so I don't know what else they put in those patches but it wasn't only nicotine. That's why I stopped those. Tried Chantrix and that didn't work either. Still had cravings for smokes.
Got into vaping a little over 2 years ago with 12mg nic. I was like holy shit this is working. Still smoked along with vaping for the first week and that was it.
No more smokes. I'm at 6mg now and still enjoying it.
As far as the OP, I can wake in the morning and not even hit the vape for at least 3 hours and still not have a craving. I could not do that with smokes.
I would fire one of them up before I even rolled out of bed and chain at least 4 before the craving went away.
So I am in the same boat as Andria. IMO, it's all the other shit they put in smokes that is addictive. Nicotine not that much if any

Yeah, as I mentioned, I never ever leave the house without my vape, and if I happen to forget it -- unlikely in the extreme, but we all have brain farts -- I'd go back for it, no matter how far away I was. But I did go completely without vaping for nearly 2 full weeks when I was down with flu, and didn't miss it at all -- currently I'm struggling with a minor but annoying sinus infection, and I find that I'm not really vaping much at all. Because now it's a HABIT... a dependency... not an addiction. The addiction was smoking, when I couldn't go even one hour without a smoke or SOMEONE was gonna hear about it -- LOUDLY. When I was down with a flu just as bad if not even worse about 23 yrs ago, I camped on the sofa for 3 wks straight, because it was closer to both the fridge and the bathroom than my own bedroom -- just walking 15 ft to the can felt like running a marathon -- but I smoked the entire time, because smoking was a non-negotiable fact of life -- I smoked after tooth extractions -- when I had my son 30 yrs ago, the nurses all knew that when it was time to feed him, they could find me in the smoking lounge: non-negotiable fact of life. When the smoke nazis would harangue me about smoking, I'd say, you're right, so go ahead and tell me, how do I quit? and they'd say something brilliant like "Just quit." and I would laugh my ass off at them, because they clearly never smoked in their life, to say something that stupid.

I tried the patches, twice. Both times, first I got heart palpitations, from the IMMENSE amount of nicotine they contain. Then of course there's the ungodly itch where those things touch your person. And yeah, nightmares. And after a week, psychosis so extreme that my 8 yr old son would BEG me to start smoking again. When I told him over the phone in 2014 that I had quit smoking thx to vaping, he said "WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH MY MOTHER?!?"

Started vaping at 6mg; got up to 10mg, and could not go any higher or I'd suffer hours of nausea. But during the 15 months I was weaning down off WTA, I was also gradually lowering my nic level -- but I went VERY slowly with that, since I was already suffering slightly from the WTA withdrawal. But once i was done with WTA, I was at 8-9mg, and decided over the next few months to get it down to 5mg. Pft, piece of cake. No withdrawal, PERIOD. The only part I disliked was how the TH got softer and softer, so I was using an increasing amount of Flash.

But caffeine? Even though it gives me bad side effects (peripheral edema, insomnia), over the last 6 months or so, my caffeine consumption had crept up, so I realized I had to knock that shit off -- but slowly, because the headaches are terrible. So instead of 3-4 cups of caffeinated tea, I was only drinking one each morning, and mostly laying off the itty bitty Pepsis.... and I STILL got headaches. So I'd have to say that caffeine is actually more addictive than nicotine -- the "withdrawal" effects from cessation are much worse, than those from nicotine... which I'm not sure, but I don't think I've EVER experienced. Unless you count the "brain fart" moments I started noticing, when I couldn't think of the word I wanted. But still... annoying as those moments are... they aren't painful, just a bit frustrating.

So if you some of you folks are pleased to consider yourself addicted to nicotine, fine by me; you can believe in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy too, if it makes you happy. It doesn't make it true, but whatever floats your boat.

Andria
 

Pastorfuzz

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Member For 4 Years
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Yeah Andria, I also forgot to mention, I ordered some juice online about 6 months ago and I had a brain fart and ordered 0 nic instead of my usual 6mg.
Didn't realize it until I received it. I wasn't going to throw out 6 120ml bottles so I vaped it. I really didn't notice any difference between the 6mg and the 0. Didn't have withdrawls either.
I didn't vape any more than normal. I don't feel any throat hits with either the 0 or 6 either. So after all my 6mg is gone, I think i'll go to 0 on my next order and see how that goes.
 

AndriaD

Yes, I DO wear a mask! I'm vaccinated, too!
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Yeah Andria, I also forgot to mention, I ordered some juice online about 6 months ago and I had a brain fart and ordered 0 nic instead of my usual 6mg.
Didn't realize it until I received it. I wasn't going to throw out 6 120ml bottles so I vaped it. I really didn't notice any difference between the 6mg and the 0. Didn't have withdrawls either.
I didn't vape any more than normal. I don't feel any throat hits with either the 0 or 6 either. So after all my 6mg is gone, I think i'll go to 0 on my next order and see how that goes.

I've continued using it because of what I've heard about it potentially preventing or alleviating cognitive dysfunction; one of my grandmothers died at the age of 95 after 15 yrs of increasing geriatric senility/dementia; the other died from Alzheimers... so I figure I need all the help I can get, with that kind of heritage. And since I've seen for myself how too low a level does seem to cause some cognitive glitches, probably because of my many years as a smoker, and then that increasing my nic level seems to alleviate those little glitches, I'll keep using it, probably indefinitely. But I very well may reach a point where I don't willingly partake of caffeine at all. Because I'm convinced that it's a great deal worse for this body than nicotine is, now that I no longer get the nicotine from cancer sticks.

I always wanted TH like a karate chop to the throat, but that requirement has faded considerably; I stopped using Flash at all some months ago, and though at first, the lack made the vape seem too soft, now that I've slightly increased the nic level, it's back to something that feels more right -- it's nicotine's REAL throat hit, rather than the artificial peppery TH of Flash. And since I do use a high level of PG (86%-87%), that's sufficient.

Andria
 

MrScaryZ

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Actually, at 3mg, I think you'd probably find the "detox" from nicotine much less troublesome than that from caffeine, though, yes, kinda similar. Headache, but maybe not the "torture band from hell" type headache; the attitude would probably be optional -- if you THINK you'd have a bad attitude about it, then you probably would. ;) If there was some really good reason for the lack of nicotine -- such as, so sick with flu you can barely breathe nevermind vape -- then probably not; you'd probably find yourself very pleased to know that you *could* discontinue vaping with so little "withdrawal" when it's really necessary. I certainly did, and though I had been vaping at 3mg for about 2 yrs at that point, I'm still one that absolutely will not leave the house without my vape -- if i forget it, I go back to get it, and I mostly won't go places where I can't vape, if I have any choice about it -- obviously I do have to buy groceries, but that's only a short abstention; however I don't have to go out to eat, and since I can't vape if I do, I mostly don't.

Andria
Wait you said Nicotine is non-addictive, in fact you have been saying this for years and now you are talking about withdrawal.. wtf
 

HondaDavidson

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Like I said, nicotine by itself is not addictive. Instead, only the combination of nicotine and a nicotine delivery system specifically designed to make that combination addictive, is.
Well bullets don't make holes unless you use a delivery device....

I mean duh... non ingested substances are non addictive.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
 

HondaDavidson

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Sugar withdrawals

"A splitting sugar headache, fatigue, cramps and nausea are just a few of the debilitating symptoms that can occur when you decide to finally nix sugar from your diet."

https://draxe.com/sugar-withdrawal/

Now put that on the same level as hardcore drugs eh?

Ludicrous
Yes main drugs are more harmful if you become addicted........

That doesn't make those drug MORE addictive..... just more harmful once addicted.

Like arguing over a .45acp or .357 for home defense..... both make bad guy just as dead at 5yds..... .45 just makes bigger mess of it and the 357 might hit someone on the other side of a couple walls

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Carambrda

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We will have to agree to disagree on this one..

I haven't smoked a cigarette in almost 10 years. When I first "quit", nicotine patches worked great for 9 months, supplied me with the relief I craved and certainly nothing else was going into my system from a cigarette. I would have continued using them if they weren't so expensive and didn't cause an itchy rash where the patch was. Then I used the lozenges for 2 years. They too gave me what I needed....nicotine. I got tired of constantly sucking on lozenges and having a white film on my lips so I started vaping. Also used chewing tobacco on and off my entire life. It too gave me what I needed, when I was in an environment where I could not smoke. Vape juice with no or low nicotine doesnt help me one little bit and I find it pointless. I can tell the nic level after 5 minutes of vaping whatever liquid you give me...either it's working for me or it isnt. If what you are saying was true, I would be able to vape zero nic and get what I need but that just doesnt happen and vape juice does not contain the same ingredients of cigarettes so if cigs are the addiction I dont see how vaping would suffice. It's the nicotine that calms my withdrawals, stops the shaking and lowers my anxiety. I feel like I have proven that to myself quite thoroughly. It doesn't matter to me one little bit what any studies say or show. I am going by what worked or didn't work for me and clearly nicotine is what I'm after, regardless of the way it enters my body. Reading 1000 studies saying otherwise will not change that. I am also not much of a believer on "studies". MOST of them are biased towards the view point of the funding entity. There are many multi million dollar studies that "proved" things that are now known to be false. Big Pharma, Monsanto, etc, etc are famous for this stuff. I'm quite sure the FDA and big tobacco are not immune to this. My grandfather used to say to me... "Believe nothing you hear or read and only half of what you see". And there are MANY instances where what's true for one person is not for another. It may very well be that some people are addicted to "smoking" while others are in fact addicted to the specific chemicals. I know for a fact that it's nicotine I crave. It's nicotine that calms my anxiety and stops the shakes, no matter what form it's in.
Sorry, but no, we will not have to agree to disagree on this one. Either you can point me to one study that presents real evidence of "nicotine without tobacco is addictive", or you can not.
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Carambrda

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Well bullets don't make holes unless you use a delivery device....

I mean duh... non ingested substances are non addictive.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
You forgot about the "specifically designed to make that combination addictive" part. Last time I checked, a nicotine delivery system specifically designed to deliver nicotine WITH tobacco wasn't the same thing as a nicotine delivery system that delivers nicotine WITHOUT tobacco.

Just because some rats in a lab showed a tendency to be in one area more than another with a plethora of complex stimuli being applied in complex ways proves nicotine without tobacco is addictive? Yea right...
 

BrokenChef

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Sorry, but no, we will not have to agree to disagree on this one. Either you can point me to one study that presents real evidence of "nicotine without tobacco is addictive", or you can not.
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THIS IS WHY I DONT LIKE FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!

People who pretend to be experts in every field, spending their time in an ECIG FORUM talking shit.

BLOCK
 

BrokenChef

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I AM THE STUDY.... I simply stated what works for me, what I have found through trial and error. as I said 1000 studies saying otherwise dont mean a god damned thing to me. I also stated from the VERY BEGINNING .....IMO.... IN MY OPINION....SO BITE ME!!!!

God I hate these fucking forums. BYE
 

Carambrda

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Member For 5 Years
Wait you said Nicotine is non-addictive, in fact you have been saying this for years and now you are talking about withdrawal.. wtf
Vaping nicotine helps to suppress the withdrawal symptoms of tobacco addiction, and apparently for a lot of people tends to do so several times better than any other smoking cessation tool, but every ex-smoker who hasn't smoked for years knows there can still occur cravings occasionally. So to me it is no surprise a lot of vapers who switched to vaping 0mg have relapsed back to smoking tobacco. Let me say that again: tobacco addiction. That is, tobacco addiction. Again, tobacco addiction. Tobacco addiction. Now please let me go back to discuss with someone about tobacco addiction. Because, tobacco addiction. And tobacco addiction. Also, tobacco addiction. Have I mentioned tobacco addiction? I really think someone ought to start to talk about tobacco addiction.
 

Buddha222

Chainvaping through the fog ....
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Talking about tobacco addiction sounds like it could be something.

Who compared kicking nicotine to hard core drugs? I have been reading through this and it keeps getting referenced and Im not seeing it?

My 2 cents

I knew dudes in the 80s and 90s when c*caine was a big thing, snorting **** like it was going out of style.
Some guys got hooked - I didn't.

I've known heavy smokers who quit cold-turkey. I tried quitting stinkies many times - nothing ever worked but vape.

So for me? Cigarettes were more addictive than c*caine. I never did anything embarrassing back in the day to get ****, but when I was poor, I'd bum smokes off people, I'd go through my couch looking for change to buy the cheapest pack of nasties. When I couldn't find enough, I'd dig random cigarettes butts out of ashtrays. Anybody here ever have to choose between buying a pack of smokes for the day or buying lunch? I have ... and it was smokes every damn time.

Is tobacco addictive? Is Nicotine addictive? I think it depends on the person, and their body chemistry's tolerance to that addiction.
I've always heard that for some people, cigarettes were like a h*roin addiction. I have also heard that a lot of this was from the additives in the tobacco.
"The filter's the best part. That's where they put the h**oin." - Denis Leary, No Cure For Cancer, 1992

Tobacco and o**** have been known to be a dangerous combination. They're co-reactive - they can make each other more potent and addictive. The native Americans had tobacco - *pium was known from the Mediterranean to China. Use of both go back 5,000 years, but it wasn't until the Dutch and the British introduced the habit of smoking a bit of **ium on a bed of tobacco that it became an addictive problem - so bad that China went to war with the West three times to stop the importation. It's how Britain got Hong Kong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

Now, it's known that Coca-Cola used to contain c*caine. Hard drugs were in a number of products. There was a rumor for the longest time that *pium was in cigarettes to make them more addictive, then after the US Government passed the Pure Food and Drug Act in 1906, the cigarette companies found other additives to increase addiction.

I know that was a rumor for many years. But in 1994, the 5 major cigarette companies published a list of nearly 600 additives in cigarettes. A US Government study has found that nearly 100 of these may either enhance addiction or mask the negative effects of cigarettes.
https://www.verywellmind.com/cigarette-additives-2824737 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040350/

What about nicotine? Another US Government study found that some of the rewarding effects of nicotine may be caused by a the brain's nicotine-induced increase in endogenous *pioids. Endogenous opioids, like the endorphins associated with the “runner’s high,” are molecules that bind to the same Mu *pioid Receptors in the brain as m*rphine or h*roin that can lessen feelings of pain and increase feelings of euphoria.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25493427 https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-even...e-brains-opioid-system-in-cigarette-addiction
 
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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
My 2 cents

I knew dudes in the 80s and 90s when c*caine was a big thing, snorting blow like it was going out of style.
Some guys got hooked - I didn't.

I've known heavy smokers who quit cold-turkey. I tried quitting stinkies many times - nothing ever worked but vape.

So for me? Cigarettes were more addictive than c*caine. I never did anything embarrassing back in the day to get c*ke, but when I was poor, I'd bum smokes off people, I'd go through my couch looking for change to buy the cheapest pack of nasties. When I couldn't find enough, I'd dig random cigarettes butts out of ashtrays. Anybody here ever have to choose between buying a pack of smokes for the day or buying lunch? I have ... and it was smokes every damn time.

Is tobacco addictive? Is Nicotine addictive? I think it depends on the person, and their body chemistry's tolerance to that addiction.
I've always heard that for some people, cigarettes were like a h*roin addiction. I have also heard that a lot of this was from the additives in the tobacco.
"The filter's the best part. That's where they put the her*in." - Denis Leary, No Cure For Cancer, 1992

Tobacco and *pium have been known to be a dangerous combination. They're co-reactive - they can make each other more potent and addictive. The native Americans had tobacco - *pium was known from the Mediterranean to China. Use of both go back 5,000 years, but it wasn't until the Dutch and the British introduced the habit of smoking a bit of *pium on a bed of tobacco that it became an addictive problem - so bad that China went to war with the West three times to stop the importation. It's how Britain got Hong Kong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

Now, it's known that Coca-Cola used to contain c*caine. Hard drugs were in a number of products. There was a rumor for the longest time that *pium was in cigarettes to make them more addictive, then after the US Government passed the Pure Food and Drug Act in 1906, the cigarette companies found other additives to increase addiction.

I know that was a rumor for many years. But in 1994, the 5 major cigarette companies published a list of nearly 600 additives in cigarettes. A US Government study has found that nearly 100 of these may either enhance addiction or mask the negative effects of cigarettes.
https://www.verywellmind.com/cigarette-additives-2824737 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040350/

What about nicotine? Another US Government study found that some of the rewarding effects of nicotine may be caused by a the brain's nicotine-induced increase in endogenous *pioids. Endogenous *pioids, like the endorphins associated with the “runner’s high,” are molecules that bind to the same Mu *pioid Receptors in the brain as m*rphine or h*roin that can lessen feelings of pain and increase feelings of euphoria.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=25493427 https://www.drugabuse.gov/news-even...e-brains-opioid-system-in-cigarette-addiction
Native Americans had no tobacco because what they had instead was some certain spiritually special type of flower they got off of a plant that has zero connection with tobacco leaf despite the murderous white man who exterminated Native Americans still insists on lying by calling it "wild tobacco" so lies, lies, and more lies added on top of lies is all that factually matters these days.
 

BrokenChef

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Well stated Buddah222!

I've been addicted to many substances over the years. Started cigs and p*t at 10yo, c*ke and **** at 13, **ium 15. Never stuck a needle in my arm but have used **iates since age 15 as well...

I have been (mostly) clean/sober for about 10 years now, other than these GD **iates which are prescribed. Yes I'm addicted but until I'm given something else that kills the pain enough for me to get out of bed and have some resemblance of life, I will remain dependent.

I know several ppl who have kicked addictions, including h**oin but are unable to get off nicotine (cigs or whatever form).

My father has very bad COPD yet still vapes a bit. Claims it's more hand to mouth than nic, uses 3mg nic at 9watts 1.6ohm about 2ml a day so... Not much, but still can't QUIT.

He is the one who introduced me to vaping about 10 years ago. Had to pre order a box mod and wait 2 weeks for it to be built and shipped. They all leaked horribly after the first week of use. This was a cpl years before there WAS even a hint of ecig stores ANYWHERE.

Back to the other stuff....

While I loved **ium, I don't think I was strongly addicted to it but perhaps it was due to being mostly unobtainable and honestly don't know for sure how pure it was. Hell, it's possible it wasn't even *pium!

Now c***k (freebase c*caine it was called long before the term c**ck was coined) had a VERY strong grip on me and cost me dearly when I was about 18, then again around age 30. Much stronger grip than the powdered form that had a grip on my dad in the 60's and that I indulged in heavily around the age of 17.

Thouroghly enjoyed large and frequent amounts of *** for about 10 years until I caught a felony possession charge due to being set up by the head housekeeper at a small inn I lived in and ran for a short period during a college internship while working on a bachelor's in hotel/rest management.

P*t, my all time favorite since I was 9yo, had a grip on me as well and ate up much of my income for many, many years. Never thought I'd see the day it became legal!

Cigs.. I've picked butts out of ashtrays, off the ground, would make re-rolls in jail from my left over butts. Very nasty addiction. Went without food and necessities many times in order to buy them. Would bum them when I could but was mostly fortunate in that I've always had a job, since age 12 so 90% of my spending over the years went to cigs, drugs and alcohol.

I guess I just have an addictive personality, be it food, drugs, alcohol, sex, TV... Whatever. Early exposure to several substances surely influenced this, IMO.

Alcohol.. Never really liked it and didn't really drink much at all until road construction blocked off the entrance to my restaurant... Lost 298k including my parents house. The depression that followed was exacerbated by increased alcohol consumption to the point of a gallon + per week of 100 proof rum.

Have been to numerous shrinks who cycled me through over a dozen meds, none of which helped my issues and several that made things worse including 3 attempted suicides.

Through all of this, I owned restaurants, ran restaurants, Inns and B & B's. Also have 2 children and was married 16 years (together nearly 20 years) . During which time I did ALL of the shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry, homework/activities with kids, car repairs, etc, etc. She was very good at doing nothing.

I was a highly functioning addict/user and my kids/family NEVER went without their needs and mostly got what they wanted as well.

I was a responsible user/addict and managed to keep it together through all my troubles.. For the most part. But will admit I could not have done so without the support of my wife and parents.. Mostly parents. I have put them through hell and back several times.

I am highly ashamed of my behavior and life choices and am now doing all I can to move forward in life and help them to the best of my abilities.

I became disabled about 10 years ago due to failed spine surgery. The relentless abuse on my body over the years, through both substance abuse and often working 80+hrs a week, has certainly taken its toll.

I am currently working towards a degree in programming so I can work from home, as able, in an attempt to get off disability and restore my life. The measly checks from disability are not enough to cover rent so I live in my parents attic (FROG). My son is 19 and out on his own with a gf who dropped out of high school, refuses to work and lives to see the next Big Mac she can shove in her face. I raised him better but also feel its my fault he has put himself in this situation. I have 50/50 custody of my 13yo daughter who has a long road ahead. Her mother's refusal to stay with me due to my loss of income combined with her (wife's) inept and lazy attitude on life has messed her (daughter) up beyond measure.

My deteriorating health is causing a lot of depression, anxiety and uncertainty. Since I lost my parents house with the restaurant, they had to do a reverse mortgage, when they are gone I will be homeless.. unless I can get this degree and find work that will support me the rest of my life.

I take full responsibility for my situation and wish nothing more than to travel back in time and beat myself sensible at the age of 10. This all started well before I was capable of comprehending the severity of my actions and went off the rails before I had a chance to realize I was driving the train.

Time flies and cannot be reversed so I trudge on through this life of hell but also realize it could be so, so much worse and consider myself lucky to be alive at this point. I never expected to live past 25.

I was born with deformed feet. Doctors told my parents I would never be able to walk but I defied the odds and I altered reality in many ways in order to survive and get by.

I am currently in fear of paralysis as I spent the majority of last week in bed because something is once again wrong with my spine. I was unable to even stand up without crippling pain so 2 MRI's this week to hopefully figure out what's wrong and correct it. I fear another surgery requiring 14-16 months of recovery is in my near future. I fear the reality of not walking again has arrived.

I am battling the insanity of all this and would prefer for it to all just be OVER. What do I have left to offer anyone except grief - mental, physical and economical?

What gives me the right to force this on my family?

Who am I to insist everyone suffers at my expense?

I don't see suicide as being selfish, I see living as the selfish act!

That being said, I am grateful that I am living with my parents as I have seen them through some really hard times over the last 6 months. My mom almost died twice. Had I not been here to call an ambulance and take care of them during recovery, I don't think they would still be here. My dad's COPD almost killed him a month ago and again, had I not been here, I don't think he would be sitting beside me right now.

Twice in my life I have saved a child from drowning. Once around age 6 I saved my best friend and then again a few years ago I saved a boy whose mother was too busy chatting up her friend to notice her son drowning in the deep end of the pool.

I have rescued animals, I have volunteered at animal shelters and homeless shelters. I am caring and compassionate. I have brought a little bit of good into this cruel world despite the pain I brought too.

Why am I saying all of this in an ecig forum? I don't have the answer to that. It was just a knee jerk reply to an open, heart felt response from another member. Maybe someone will see it and it will help them. Not really on topic for the thread but that seldom seems to be the case in any forum.

Thanks for putting up with me, thanks for allowing me to rant and spew my guts. And thanks for the help re-entering the ecig DIY world.

If nothing else, it explains my user name, thoroughly..

BrokenChef
 
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Buddha222

Chainvaping through the fog ....
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Silver Contributor
Member For 1 Year
Native Americans had no tobacco because what they had instead was some certain spiritually special type of flower they got off of a plant that has zero connection with tobacco leaf despite the murderous white man who exterminated Native Americans still insists on lying by calling it "wild tobacco" so lies, lies, and more lies added on top of lies is all that factually matters these days.

Yup today's commercial tobacco and what the Indians used are different.

Nothing I've ever read about native American tobacco use mentioned anything about them needing a fix every 10 minutes. Though commonly carried and traded among eastern tribes, use was mainly ceremonial.

In addition to the additives in cigarettes, the first government report above also goes into how the cigarette companies genetically modified tobacco.
 
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