So disappointed....at least I was

Realjag · Dec 7, 2017

Hi all.

After 3 years of vaping, I decided to try my hand at DIY. So as I normally do, I jumped right in. Over the past 3 weeks, I spent almost $500 on equipment and materials.

Throughout these years I learned to try to avoid Diacetyl so I decided to use only Flavour Art flavorings where possible but I wasn't sure about nic and PG/VG.

I ended up purchasing most of the liquids through e-cig express except for the nic which since it was close by, I went with nic river.

Well I mixed up a few recipes and long story short, I just finished dumping out and washing more than a dozen bottles of crap. I was even lucky enough to find HIC's recipes and I bought a few of his but with the same results.

The inhale was ok but the exhale was painful. Harsh with a sore throat.

So back to the forums and I was lucky to find several threads on Vapers Tek. I placed an order today for nic and PG. I think the VG I have is ok and I'm hopeful for better results when I receive it.

So my question to everyone is, where do you get your base liquids? Like I said I added PG to the order from VT but is there a superior place for PG-VG?

Can you someone explain the difference between VT's EU sourced nic and the throat hit nic?

Oh and if anyone is around Sonoma and would like the remainder of a 250ML bottle of NIC let me know. Hurry because It's going down the drain soon.

Mattp169 · Dec 7, 2017

um ill take teh nic if youll ship it to me in MD
i us eit all the time with no issue

to determine if its your nic
make 6 or so ml with no nic
and then test

also you rnic may just not be mixed well and you got a hot spot
vg nic takes a good amount of shaking

i use vt nic nic river, chen nic its all about the same to me

SteveS45 · Dec 7, 2017

Harshness can be caused by the Nicotine or the PG and even the flavor extracts you are using. Alcohol in flavors in my opinion is nasty and need a long to time evaporate and you need to give your DIY liquids time to infuse and age. You do not say how long you left the liquids to infuse or age but with three weeks since you started I am thinking 7-10 days for shipping.

Realjag · Dec 7, 2017

Mattp169 said:
to determine if its your nic
make 6 or so ml with no nic
and then test

also you rnic may just not be mixed well and you got a hot spot
vg nic takes a good amount of shaking

i use vt nic nic river, chen nic its all about the same to me

Thanks for the tips.

I did just that and mixed up 4 or 5 without nic and the harsh exhale went away. Then I did a bottle as max VG and it was much better.

I shook the crap out of the nic so I don't think that was it but of course, I could be wrong.

Realjag · Dec 7, 2017

SteveS45 said:
Harshness can be caused by the Nicotine or the PG and even the flavor extracts you are using. Alcohol in flavors in my opinion is nasty and need a long to time evaporate and you need to give your DIY liquids time to infuse and age. You do not say how long you left the liquids to infuse or age but with three weeks since you started I am thinking 7-10 days for shipping.

I can see what you are saying about the flavorings but since I was buying the flavorings from a distributor I figured they probably weren't all that fresh anyway.

RonJS · Dec 7, 2017

Realjag said:
Oh and if anyone is around Sonoma and would like the remainder of a 250ML bottle of NIC let me know. Hurry because It's going down the drain soon.

Nic works well as a garden bug killer. Just saying...

Realjag · Dec 7, 2017

RonJS said:
Nic works well as a garden bug killer. Just saying...

Ha. They might through me in jail for that here in Cali.

SteveS45 · Dec 7, 2017

Realjag said:
I can see what you are saying about the flavorings but since I was buying the flavorings from a distributor I figured they probably weren't all that fresh anyway.

Flavorings are good for years and e-Liquids can have a shelf life of 2-3 years depending on if in glass or plastic. You still have not said how long you left them to age and infuse or what others call "steeping'. I only steep a cup of tea and not my e-Liquids.

pulsevape · Dec 7, 2017

Realjag said:
Thanks for the tips.

I did just that and mixed up 4 or 5 without nic and the harsh exhale went away. Then I did a bottle as max VG and it was much better.

I shook the crap out of the nic so I don't think that was it but of course, I could be wrong.

shaking the crap out of nic will put air into it and help oxidize it, making it peppery and harsh. the harshness could be...too much nic, oxidized nic,too much PG...

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

SteveS45 said:
Flavorings are good for years and e-Liquids can have a shelf life of 2-3 years depending on if in glass or plastic. You still have not said how long you left them to age and infuse or what others call "steeping'. I only steep a cup of tea and not my e-Liquids.

Ah, now I see what you mean. I kept trying the juice every day for more than a week but the harshness did not subside. Once I mixed up a few without nic, it was clear to me where the nasty taste was coming from.

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

pulsevape said:
shaking the crap out of nic will put air into it and help oxidize it, making it peppery and harsh. the harshness could be...too much nic, oxidized nic,too much PG...

Thank you for the tip.

Train · Dec 8, 2017

Your nic is from Nic River?
They do some "extra strength" - what was your base, and did you use a calculator to check your recipes??
Just asking...harsh could also be, "woops, I made 36 mg juice by accident".

I use Nude Nicotine for nic. Have been real happy with it, stocked the freezer...
I've used a couple others, notably Wizard Labs, but Nude was the "cleanest"...

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

Train said:
Your nic is from Nic River?
They do some "extra strength" - what was your base, and did you use a calculator to check your recipes??
Just asking...harsh could also be, "woops, I made 36 mg juice by accident".

I use Nude Nicotine for nic. Have been real happy with it, stocked the freezer...
I've used a couple others, notably Wizard Labs, but Nude was the "cleanest"...

Hey Train. I bought the standard strength product. 250ml of 100mg in VG. I have been using the calculator and saving my recipes on http://e-liquid-recipes.com/.

I tried to learn as much as I could before I actually started mixing so I'm fairly confident I mixed it correctly. I'm not trying to run down nic river. Just saying that I'm disappointed in the results so far.

So about the freezer thing. Do you have to defrost before you mix? And if so, do you refreeze/defrost everytime you need to use it?

I thought about nude but I figured I would try VTs right now and go from there.

Thanks for the help.

pulsevape · Dec 8, 2017

Realjag said:
Hey Train. I bought the standard strength product. 250ml of 100mg in VG. I have been using the calculator and saving my recipes on http://e-liquid-recipes.com/.

I tried to learn as much as I could before I actually started mixing so I'm fairly confident I mixed it correctly. I'm not trying to run down nic river. Just saying that I'm disappointed in the results so far.

So about the freezer thing. Do you have to defrost before you mix? And if so, do you refreeze/defrost everytime you need to use it?

I thought about nude but I figured I would try VTs right now and go from there.

Thanks for the help.

neither PG or VG freezes solid...so defrosting isn't a problem....although letting them sit out till they reach room temp makes them easier to work with. both NN and VT are pretty good.,,I use NN for nic salts and Carolina Extracts for free base nic....just out of curiosity what mg of nic is the juice are you mixing and on what kind of watts.

MagicJosh · Dec 8, 2017

I love DIY. But I have thrown away many bottles as well. Its part of the learning curve of starting out with it. You will learn which flavors are better then others over time. If you want check me out on youtube I explain which flavors are better then others. You may also want to try using max VG for a smoother experience. Maybe buy a 3 or 6 mg re mixed VG from Nicotine River. Its very smooth IMO.

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

pulsevape said:
neither PG or VG freezes solid...so defrosting isn't a problem....although letting them sit out till they reach room temp makes them easier to work with. both NN and VT are pretty good.,,I use NN for nic salts and Carolina Extracts for free base nic....just out of curiosity what mg of nic is the juice are you mixing and on what kind of watts.

Hi Pulse.Thank you for the explanation. I am running two rigs right now. A VGOD RDA with my RX300 sitting at 74watts and a Crown Valyrian on a G Priv2 running at 68Watts.

I have a couple of RDTAs but I had to swap building time for mixing time.

Oh and I am mixing for 3mg nic

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

MagicJosh said:
I love DIY. But I have thrown away many bottles as well. Its part of the learning curve of starting out with it. You will learn which flavors are better then others over time. If you want check me out on youtube I explain which flavors are better then others. You may also want to try using max VG for a smoother experience. Maybe buy a 3 or 6 mg re mixed VG from Nicotine River. Its very smooth IMO.

Hi Josh. I will check your channel out.

Most of the time I run a tank so I have been mixing at 70 vg /30 pg but I also experimented with max VG for my dripper.

I made 3 bottles of the same recipe for german gummies. One with 3mg nic, a second without nic and the third with no nic or added PG. The first affected my throat just like all of my other bottles. A harsh hit and then my throat would be sore. The second with nic the exhale harshness went away but the flavors were dulled. On the third the flavor was better but the recipe could use some tweaking but ultimately had the best flavor.

Carambrda · Dec 8, 2017

I see you calculated the correct amount of nic base. But nic rises slowly to the surface so did you also shake the bottle of nic base well enough before you took out that correct amount?

Mattp169 · Dec 8, 2017

ok heres my next suggestion
i dont know if you have broken down you nic into smaller bottles
if you have try and put it all back together
then give it a good stirring/shaking
mix up some base of 3mg flavorless ejuice
just use all vg if you can
so 1ml of nic to 33ml of vg
try that to be sure the nic is not working for you
its important thought that you go back and remix you nic to make sure you didnt seperate it out and gave some bottles a higher nic content then others
and you have no hot spots
if that is fine to vape
then its your pg thats bothering you
if you really want to get rid of that nic
send me your addy and the weight of the bottle ill make a prepaid label for you to ship to me

Train · Dec 8, 2017

That was my concern - 250 isn't "standard" at most places, 100 is....
But as long as you checked...

I just purchased the in relatively small bottles (like 250 mls, etc) - and pull one out and keep it out to use for use for the next few months.
A little more $, I could also have re-bottled like some folks do, but I figure "yeah a few bucks over 5 years....not gonna worry about it".

Realjag said:
Hey Train. I bought the standard strength product. 250ml of 100mg in VG. I have been using the calculator and saving my recipes on http://e-liquid-recipes.com/.

I tried to learn as much as I could before I actually started mixing so I'm fairly confident I mixed it correctly. I'm not trying to run down nic river. Just saying that I'm disappointed in the results so far.

So about the freezer thing. Do you have to defrost before you mix? And if so, do you refreeze/defrost everytime you need to use it?

I thought about nude but I figured I would try VTs right now and go from there.

Thanks for the help.

Hillbilly Pig · Dec 8, 2017

I buy my flavors from bull city almost exclusively, sometimes I'll use other sites if they don't have a specific flavor, but most of the time BCF has what I need. For nic, I only use vaperstek, it's just what I love the most, though Nic River isn't bad, I just find myself liking Vaperstek a lot more. For VG/PG, it depends, I like essential depot the most, and use them if I'm in need for it in a hurry(prime shipping, yadda yadda yadda) if I'm ordering flavors from bull city and am a little low, I grab some from there, it's good stuff can't really taste a difference. I can't agree with @MagicJosh more, you will go through a good bit of juice before and after finding what works for you. I'd do what @Mattp169 said and make some test batches.

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

Carambrda said:
I see you calculated the correct amount of nic base. But nic rises slowly to the surface so did you also shake the bottle of nic base well enough before you took out that correct amount?

Hi Carambrda, I'd like to think I shook all the materials just the right amount.

With the nic, I tried to get a good shake onto it first to "wake up" then I would get my pipette and bottle ready and tare the scale. I would shake one more time, open the cap, take what I need and then close it back up. I have also been storing it in the cardboard box the scale came in. Very dark and cool.

Mattp169 said:
ok heres my next suggestion
i dont know if you have broken down you nic into smaller bottles
if you have try and put it all back together
then give it a good stirring/shaking
mix up some base of 3mg flavorless ejuice
just use all vg if you can
so 1ml of nic to 33ml of vg
try that to be sure the nic is not working for you
its important thought that you go back and remix you nic to make sure you didnt seperate it out and gave some bottles a higher nic content then others
and you have no hot spots
if that is fine to vape
then its your pg thats bothering you
if you really want to get rid of that nic
send me your addy and the weight of the bottle ill make a prepaid label for you to ship to me

Matt, Ok you got yourself a deal. I will make up flavourless ejuice and let you know.

Train said:
That was my concern - 250 isn't "standard" at most places, 100 is....
But as long as you checked...

I just purchased the in relatively small bottles (like 250 mls, etc) - and pull one out and keep it out to use for use for the next few months.
A little more $, I could also have re-bottled like some folks do, but I figure "yeah a few bucks over 5 years....not gonna worry about it".

Train, I thought about 100ml but the 250 seemed like a slightly better deal. Now that you bring that up, I thought it should be in a glass bottle but it isn't. It came in a plastic bottle. Strange right? I have attached a pic.

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

Hillbilly Pig said:
I buy my flavors from bull city almost exclusively, sometimes I'll use other sites if they don't have a specific flavor, but most of the time BCF has what I need. For nic, I only use vaperstek, it's just what I love the most, though Nic River isn't bad, I just find myself liking Vaperstek a lot more. For VG/PG, it depends, I like essential depot the most, and use them if I'm in need for it in a hurry(prime shipping, yadda yadda yadda) if I'm ordering flavors from bull city and am a little low, I grab some from there, it's good stuff can't really taste a difference. I can't agree with @MagicJosh more, you will go through a good bit of juice before and after finding what works for you. I'd do what @Mattp169 said and make some test batches.

Hi Hillybilly and thank you for the tips. I have two 100ml bottles on order from VT, 1 of PG and the other VG. I was trying to buy as local as possible to save on shipping and freshness but I'll check out both essential and bull city.

I figured I would have a learning curve but the reaction I was getting was much more than just a bad recipe. :blech:

RonJS · Dec 8, 2017

Realjag said:
Ha. They might through me in jail for that here in Cali.

Nicotine is considered an organic pesticide. While this San Francisco article does not mention any jail time...
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/can-nicotine-pesticide-82389.html

....Choose an application time when overhead drone activity is the lightest and hope for the best.

Ron
---
"A fact or a fantasy, a substance or a shadow, but all of it very much a part of the Twilight Zone."- Rod Serling

zephyr · Dec 8, 2017

Realjag said:
Ah, now I see what you mean. I kept trying the juice every day for more than a week but the harshness did not subside. Once I mixed up a few without nic, it was clear to me where the nasty taste was coming from.

What color is your nicotine? Clear? Amber? Are you maybe just mis-measuring and using too much? It's easy to do with 100mg nicotine and small batches, why I test for flavor first in 10 ML then jump to at least 50mL before I add nicotine

Edit: your nicotine is 250mg/mL? Egads...you're talking about accidentally doubling nicotine in a 10mL batch if you're off by as much as 0.1 mL, thats as small as my syringes have markings :0

voicenyerhed · Dec 8, 2017

I always use Bull City Flavors for my flavorings and base liquids. Since switching to them for my base liquids, I noticed that my wicks on my rebuildables as well as my wife's factory coils lasted WAY longer. I don't know why this is, but I know that I only have to change them out every 4-5 weeks for both of us and we are both chain vapers. Unfortunately, they don't carry nic, so I get that at Flavor Wizard.

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

Pegleg Meg said:
What color is your nicotine? Clear? Amber? Are you maybe just mis-measuring and using too much? It's easy to do with 100mg nicotine and small batches, why I test for flavor first in 10 ML then jump to at least 50mL before I add nicotine

Edit: your nicotine is 250mg/mL? Egads...you're talking about accidentally doubling nicotine in a 10mL batch if you're off by as much as 0.1 mL, thats as small as my syringes have markings :0

Ahhhh, no it isn't. I bought a 250ml bottle of 100mg/ml nic. I have attached an enlarged pic. As I said, I don't believe I am mis-measuring. I am looking at every variable in my recipe.

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

voicenyerhed said:
I always use Bull City Flavors for my flavorings and base liquids. Since switching to them for my base liquids, I noticed that my wicks on my rebuildables as well as my wife's factory coils lasted WAY longer. I don't know why this is, but I know that I only have to change them out every 4-5 weeks for both of us and we are both chain vapers. Unfortunately, they don't carry nic, so I get that at Flavor Wizard.

Thanks Voice. When I was on the east coast Bull city would have been one of my first choices but I tried to stay close to Cali as that's where I am now. That's not to say I won't choose them in the future though.

What flavor manufacturers do you buy for the most part?

I love when coils last longer from cleaner juices. Awesome.

RonJS · Dec 8, 2017

Realjag said:
I don't believe I am mis-measuring. I am looking at every variable in my recipe.

You must have read the "Stickies" :bingo:

Like this one...

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/finding-the-problem-when-your-diy-tastes-bad.88262/
:yes:

Ron
---
"The beautiful thing about learning is nobody can take it away from you."- B. B. King

Realjag · Dec 8, 2017

RonJS said:
You must have read the "Stickies"

Like this one...

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/finding-the-problem-when-your-diy-tastes-bad.88262/

Sure have. I just didn't progress to the unflavored mix because frankly, I'm fairly confident it's the nic but I will do that tonight or when I get a chance.

By the way, HIC is near god status for a newbie like me. (why no bowing smiley?)

voicenyerhed · Dec 8, 2017

Realjag said:
Thanks Voice. When I was on the east coast Bull city would have been one of my first choices but I tried to stay close to Cali as that's where I am now. That's not to say I won't choose them in the future though. What flavor manufacturers do you buy for the most part?

I love when coils last longer from cleaner juices. Awesome.

I have primarily stuck with FA, but recently tried a cap CSL flavor & will be checking some more of those out in the near future.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

r055co · Dec 8, 2017

Mattp169 said:
also you rnic may just not be mixed well and you got a hot spot
vg nic takes a good amount of shaking

Save yourself a ton of troubles and invest in a decent mag stirrer. Mix in a beaker, cover with the rubber stopper, switch the stirrer on high and come back around 3 hours. This way you also don't need to worry about steeping.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

Carambrda · Dec 9, 2017

r055co said:
Save yourself a ton of troubles and invest in a decent mag stirrer. Mix in a beaker, cover with the rubber stopper, switch the stirrer on high and come back around 3 hours. This way you also don't need to worry about steeping.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

I got the Nitecore Flavor Factory Series Liquid Mixer a couple days ago. Haven't tried it yet, though.

r055co · Dec 9, 2017

Carambrda said:
I got the Nitecore Flavor Factory Series Liquid Mixer a couple days ago. Haven't tried it yet, though.

Not sure about the NiteCore, but a mag stirrer makes a big difference. I also got the idea of stirring this way from a friend who has a successful juice business that puts out great quality juice.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

Realjag · Dec 11, 2017

I have another question about mix order. I have been mixing in this order Nic > flavors > PG > VG.

Would it be better to mix flavors and PG/VG first and then add Nic?

Mattp169 · Dec 11, 2017

Realjag said:
I have another question about mix order. I have been mixing in this order Nic > flavors > PG > VG.

Would it be better to mix flavors and PG/VG first and then add Nic?

I personally do not believe it makes any difference.
i usualy do flavors, then nic, then vg.
WHY?
no reason\
but that order comes in handy when you are not sure if you have enough of a flavor to make as much as you want

Hillbilly Pig · Dec 11, 2017

I mix whatever order I grab things, though I will always do flavors together(keeps me from re-adding a flavor)

Huckleberried · Dec 11, 2017

Flavors, nic, VG, shake, then PG, shake again.

voicenyerhed · Dec 11, 2017

Realjag said:
I have another question about mix order. I have been mixing in this order Nic > flavors > PG > VG.

Would it be better to mix flavors and PG/VG first and then add Nic?

Personally, I premix my VG, PG, & nic base in 500ml batches. This way, when it's time to play I can get straight to it. It also helps when I need to weaken a nice that's too strong.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Huckleberried · Dec 11, 2017

voicenyerhed said:
Personally, I premix my VG, PG, & nic base in 500ml batches. This way, when it's time to play I can get straight to it. It also helps when I need to weaken a nice that's too strong.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

I like keeping a base mix, myself, but I've gotten lazy here and there, LOL. Ran out of base yesterday

hellcatrydr · Dec 11, 2017

Realjag said:
I have another question about mix order. I have been mixing in this order Nic > flavors > PG > VG.

Would it be better to mix flavors and PG/VG first and then add Nic?

Never steep with nic. I never add nic as I mix because I'm mixing 3-400 mls at a time to make enough for a few months.
But in that same few months, nic would oxidize and affects the flavor and color of the juice negatively imo.

I mix up the big batch sans nicotine, and then I use a 30 ml bottle to mix in the nic just before I use it.
(1.5 ml nic and fill the rest of the 30 with the steeped premix is my mix)

This way my actual vaping juice is always clear. (be'cept fer dark flavors)

r055co · Dec 11, 2017

hellcatrydr said:
Never steep with nic. I never add nic as I mix because I'm mixing 3-400 mls at a time to make enough for a few months.
But in that same few months, nic would oxidize and affects the flavor and color of the juice negatively imo.

I mix up the big batch sans nicotine, and then I use a 30 ml bottle to mix in the nic just before I use it.
(1.5 ml nic and fill the rest of the 30 with the steeped premix is my mix)

This way my actual vaping juice is always clear. (be'cept fer dark flavors)

Great idea, never thought of that

So disappointed....at least I was

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