Become a Patron!

400mg's of nicotine to dangerous?

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Handling nicotine, a chemists perspectiveDIY E-liquid (self.electronic_cigarette)

submitted 3 years ago by fenrisulfur

Now I have been thinking some about people making their own nicotine solutions and I have seen some make statements that are both a hyperbole and too blasé over its handling.

I am a chemist that has about 10 years experience in working in a lab and as a TA teaching first and second year chemistry labs, everything I say here is not god's honest truth and you should use your common sense when handling nicotine solutions, these are just thoughts and things I have seen people do that I hope to make thing a bit clearer. I however have not personally handled nic in high concentrations, this is just me talking generally from experience in working with hazardous chemicals.

Gloves: Now this might come as a shock to you but I don´t think you should use gloves every time you handle strong nicotine solutions, gloves give people a false sense of security. Although they protect you from harm they do not clean themselves and I would be a rich man if I had a dollar for every time I have gotten an acid burn from handles and ledges of fume hoods because someone had his gloves on and had them covered with sulfuric acid while pawing everything under the sun. The burns I saw most often where on the bridge of peoples noses from when they had their gloves covered and pushed their glasses up and on the palms of their hands, and on palms from taking soiled gloves off. So when you have gloves be very aware off what is on them and act accordingly. I myself do not use gloves unless the chemical I am working with will have an immediate ill effect on me or when I know the substance has a history off toxicity. When I do use gloves I change them frequently and I do not leave the area when the substance is with them on so as not to contaminate my surroundings. Safety glasses however are a must and should be worn at any time really, ok perhaps not if you are dripping or such things but every time you are mixing you should use them, they have saved my eyes more often that I can count. Here are a pair that are dirt cheap really comfortable and rather stylish if I might be so forward to say so

0-24 mg/mL: at this concentration you really do not need any special precautions except for cleaning up spills, especially if you have children and/or pets in you household and if you are handling hundreds of mL's, if you spill a couple off mills on the floor and your pooch licks it up it could potentially kill it or at least you will get a really sick dog with vomiting and such. Double that risk for small children. Bottom line then, be aware that this is not good for children or pets and the higher the concentration the higher the care.

36-72 mg/mL: Here we have a concentration you will have to be more safety aware, do not keep liquids of these even visible for children. Here we are going onto the territory of getting nicotine poisoning from having your skin exposed to. Remember the higher the conc. the higher the risk. I myself would not use gloves as I would be much more aware off any smudges on my bare skin. I know I would have plenty of time to go to the sink and wash before I would feel any ill effect. Of course if you are handling hundreds of mL's in an open container you should be quite careful, only use in places that do not have any kids or pets as this could possibly spell a disaster. Remember if you do use gloves do not leave the area with them on or if you do only move to the sink to wash off without touching anything unless you have made sure your gloves are not contaminated.

70~150 mg/mL: Now here I have to admit that my inexperience with base nic is starting to hinder my advice but if you hold a gun to my head I would recommend that you start using gloves in a space that is dedicated for this kind of work, that is not your kitchen. Use a shed or someplace you are NOT disturbed, do not walk away from your work and be very, very aware of any spills or if you get anything on your clothing or gloves. I would recommend against working with these concentrations in any serious amounts. I am not sure how readily it evaporates but the boiling point is at 247°C so I do not think it doe much of that especially if you have it in solution but as a precaution handle lager amounts in a well ventilated area.

150-1000 mg/mL (i.e. 100% nicotine): Now from here on I would recommend that you handle every solutions from 15% up as pure nicotine and I cannot recommend that it is handled by anyone except people used to work with such things under a fume hood with face protection (that is a face shield). Or outside geared up in a chemical apron and face shield by someone used to handle such things.

Now like said these are just my thought and if there is someone that can point out a better way I will edit my text properly scolded.

Thank you for your time.
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee

32bitlord

TPD Compliant
VU Donator
Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
lmao. Did you even bother to read the link I provided? You give us a link to a Reddit post? One that falsely states "a potentially lethal 30mg dose " ? Please read the link I provided above first. And then go spread nonsense if you wish, but at least you had a chance to read facts.

Wow, put your handbag away. Your a very bitter, short fused individual aren't you. Yawn


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
Handling nicotine, a chemists perspectiveDIY E-liquid (self.electronic_cigarette)

submitted 3 years ago by fenrisulfur

Now I have been thinking some about people making their own nicotine solutions and I have seen some make statements that are both a hyperbole and too blasé over its handling.

I am a chemist that has about 10 years experience in working in a lab and as a TA teaching first and second year chemistry labs, everything I say here is not god's honest truth and you should use your common sense when handling nicotine solutions, these are just thoughts and things I have seen people do that I hope to make thing a bit clearer. I however have not personally handled nic in high concentrations, this is just me talking generally from experience in working with hazardous chemicals.

Gloves: Now this might come as a shock to you but I don´t think you should use gloves every time you handle strong nicotine solutions, gloves give people a false sense of security. Although they protect you from harm they do not clean themselves and I would be a rich man if I had a dollar for every time I have gotten an acid burn from handles and ledges of fume hoods because someone had his gloves on and had them covered with sulfuric acid while pawing everything under the sun. The burns I saw most often where on the bridge of peoples noses from when they had their gloves covered and pushed their glasses up and on the palms of their hands, and on palms from taking soiled gloves off. So when you have gloves be very aware off what is on them and act accordingly. I myself do not use gloves unless the chemical I am working with will have an immediate ill effect on me or when I know the substance has a history off toxicity. When I do use gloves I change them frequently and I do not leave the area when the substance is with them on so as not to contaminate my surroundings. Safety glasses however are a must and should be worn at any time really, ok perhaps not if you are dripping or such things but every time you are mixing you should use them, they have saved my eyes more often that I can count. Here are a pair that are dirt cheap really comfortable and rather stylish if I might be so forward to say so

0-24 mg/mL: at this concentration you really do not need any special precautions except for cleaning up spills, especially if you have children and/or pets in you household and if you are handling hundreds of mL's, if you spill a couple off mills on the floor and your pooch licks it up it could potentially kill it or at least you will get a really sick dog with vomiting and such. Double that risk for small children. Bottom line then, be aware that this is not good for children or pets and the higher the concentration the higher the care.

36-72 mg/mL: Here we have a concentration you will have to be more safety aware, do not keep liquids of these even visible for children. Here we are going onto the territory of getting nicotine poisoning from having your skin exposed to. Remember the higher the conc. the higher the risk. I myself would not use gloves as I would be much more aware off any smudges on my bare skin. I know I would have plenty of time to go to the sink and wash before I would feel any ill effect. Of course if you are handling hundreds of mL's in an open container you should be quite careful, only use in places that do not have any kids or pets as this could possibly spell a disaster. Remember if you do use gloves do not leave the area with them on or if you do only move to the sink to wash off without touching anything unless you have made sure your gloves are not contaminated.

70~150 mg/mL: Now here I have to admit that my inexperience with base nic is starting to hinder my advice but if you hold a gun to my head I would recommend that you start using gloves in a space that is dedicated for this kind of work, that is not your kitchen. Use a shed or someplace you are NOT disturbed, do not walk away from your work and be very, very aware of any spills or if you get anything on your clothing or gloves. I would recommend against working with these concentrations in any serious amounts. I am not sure how readily it evaporates but the boiling point is at 247°C so I do not think it doe much of that especially if you have it in solution but as a precaution handle lager amounts in a well ventilated area.

150-1000 mg/mL (i.e. 100% nicotine): Now from here on I would recommend that you handle every solutions from 15% up as pure nicotine and I cannot recommend that it is handled by anyone except people used to work with such things under a fume hood with face protection (that is a face shield). Or outside geared up in a chemical apron and face shield by someone used to handle such things.

Now like said these are just my thought and if there is someone that can point out a better way I will edit my text properly scolded.

Thank you for your time.
How about reading the link I provided on Nicotine Toxicity first, and stop providing erroneous information? :)
I mix 100 mg/ml nic all the time, carefully, latex gloves on, with a ventilation fan running. though that's not required, there are no powerful toxic fumes. If I were to spill it on me, the sinks right there, no hazmat suit, no SCBA, no shitting in my pants, just wash it off immediately.

In case you skipped over my post a page back, I repeat it here. Its not as much fun as claiming a drop of nicotine will kill you, but facts are facts,:
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/400mgs-of-nicotine-to-dangerous.343650/#post-1835423

Edit: Your recommendations on handling nicotine are pretty good. For the record.
 
Last edited:

32bitlord

TPD Compliant
VU Donator
Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
How about reading the link I provided on Nicotine Toxicity first, and stop providing erroneous information? :)
I mix 100 mg/ml nic all the time, carefully, latex gloves on, with a ventilation fan running. though that's not required, there are no powerful toxic fumes. If I were to spill it on me, the sinks right there, no hazmat suit, no SCBA, no shitting in my pants, just wash it off


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
Wow, put your handbag away. Your a very bitter, short fused individual aren't you. Yawn


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
haha, no bitter here, just amusement, lol. I find it amusing that people totally skip overr a link that someone posts with facts, and then continues to post bad information, its fun to be skeered i guess :D
 

32bitlord

TPD Compliant
VU Donator
Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
haha, no bitter here, just amusement, lol. I find it amusing that people totally skip overr a link that someone posts with facts, and then continues to post bad information, its fun to be skeered i guess :D

It's called debating, smashing down other people is a different matter entirely


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
 

32bitlord

TPD Compliant
VU Donator
Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
How about we test your theory? Feel like being our test subject wolf?


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
For the record, I'm not going to let anyone here who shitz their pants over 400 mg/ml nic and how to get rid of it (call 911, wear scuba, lol) go camping in the wilderness with me. You will shit and take off running at the sound of a hoot owl, lol :D :D :D
 

32bitlord

TPD Compliant
VU Donator
Bronze Contributor
Member For 2 Years
ECF Refugee
For the record, I'm not going to let anyone here who shitz their pants over 400 mg/ml nic and how to get rid of it (call 911, wear scuba, lol) go camping in the wilderness with me. You will shit and take off running at the sound of a hoot owl, lol :D :D :D

Jeez are you still going on. Move on bro and chill out


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
Jeez are you still going on. Move on bro and chill out


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
lol
Edit: In retrospect think you're right about one thing -I should chill out, haha. But I'm not going to move on from this thread when I see inaccurate information, like your link to Reddit, posted again and again, I will just keep posting the link to solid research on the topic of Nicotine Toxicity. You can read it or not. You can "I read it on Reddit so it must be true" or not. And you can move on or not, haha :).

For anyone's reading pleasure, let me once more post the link, and for those who don't like to read scholarly articles, here's this important excerpt:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880486/
"The discrepancy between the 60-mg dose and published cases of nicotine intoxication has been noted previously (Matsushima et al. 1995; Metzler et al. 2005), but nonetheless, this value is still accepted without scrutiny and taken as the basis for worldwide safety regulations of tobacco and other nicotine-containing products. Nicotine is a toxic compound that should be handled with care, but the frequent warnings of potential fatalities caused by ingestion of small amounts of tobacco products or diluted nicotine-containing solutions are unjustified and need to be revised in light of overwhelming data indicating that more than 0.5 g of oral nicotine is required to kill an adult."
 
Last edited:

5150sick

Under Ground Hustler
Staff member
VU Administrator
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Press Corps
Member For 5 Years
Mod Team Leader
This dude could have been way less of a dick and just added 360ml's of PG or VG to the nic before bothering to send it to you.
I guess he may have thought that you were experienced enough to handle it which makes no sense.
Some vendors won't even deal with concentrations that high.
Unless a vendor has a distributor making the juice in an automatic bottling machine or has an extensive background in chemistry then I don't think anyone is "experienced" enough to handle more than 200ml/ml.

I would say with the "one drop of pure nic will kill ya" thing that it may be possible if it were a small child or someone with some sort of nicotine allergy.
But I wouldn't want to fuck around and find out.;)
 
Last edited:

5150sick

Under Ground Hustler
Staff member
VU Administrator
Senior Moderator
VU Donator
Diamond Contributor
Press Corps
Member For 5 Years
Mod Team Leader
lol
Edit: In retrospect think you're right about one thing -I should chill out, haha. But I'm not going to move on from this thread when I see inaccurate information, ."

No, I totally get it.
At least when someone happens to search about the one drop of pure nic if they land here they will get links to accurate information.

Tobacco Control are masters at telling a lie over and over again until it just becomes true and no one bothers to even track down the source.

Shit, Stan Glantz puts all kids of wacky shit in studies and uses HIMSELF from a previous study as a reference.
if any of that wacky shit catches on as fact (which he is hoping it does) in a decade or so think of how hard it would be to trace it back to it's original lying ass source.
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
This dude could have been way less of a dick and just added 360ml's of PG or VG to the nic before bothering to send it to you.
I guess he may have thought that you were experienced enough to handle it which makes no sense.
Some vendors won't even deal with concentrations that high.
Unless a vendor has a distributor making the juice in an automatic bottling machine or an extensive background in chemistry then I don't think anyone is "experienced" enough to handle more than 200ml/ml.

I would say with the "one drop of pure nic will kill ya" thing that it may be possible if it were a small child or someone with some sort of nicotine allergy.
But I wouldn't want to fuck around and find out.;)
well my recommendation is that we not let children get hold of any nicotine, and if someone has a nicotine allergy i don't think they could smoke or vape.
 

Time

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Let me point out that some noobs, 2 or 3, posting on VU some time back did mix 1000mg as 100mg in juice and vape it and got 1000mg on their skin. No one died. They got a bit nic sick, but no hospital visits.

I'm not bored enough to go back and find those threads for the "one drop will kill you" folks.

A person should be careful with 1000mg(or consentrations that are high) but the "one drop will kill you" mantra is pure(1000mg/ml) fear mongering.
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
Let me point out that some noobs, 2 or 3, posting on VU some time back did mix 1000mg as 100mg in juice and vape it and got 1000mg on their skin. No one died. They got a bit nic sick, but no hospital visits.

I'm not bored enough to go back and find those threads for the "one drop will kill you" folks.

A person should be careful with 1000mg(or consentrations that are high) but the "one drop will kill you" mantra is pure(1000mg/ml) fear mongering.
Thanks for the real life example. Until they've done their homework, noobs shouldn't be messing with 100 mg/ml, much less 1000 mg/ml. when I was a noob, I didn't, lol. I've used it safely and carefully for a long time now. If I ever get any on me, the sink is right there, I will wash it off and go on about my business instead of messing my pants ;)
I will say, that the "one drop of pure nic will kill you" falsehood is all over the internet, gov't sites, anti-tobacco sites, etc. So I know where they get it, but hopefully the link to actual Research into Nicotine Toxicology, and your example ,will bring a little truth to the matter and the "one drop will kill" nonsense will be at least slowed down on VU. Maybe. Hopefully lol :D
I wonder if some of these folks know that Juul's is 60mg/ml nic, nic salts? Probably not. I'm sure folks would die from vaping that. haha :D
 
Last edited:

MagicJosh

Silver Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I wish I can just throw it in the trash. Im calling the city waste commission tomorrow right away.
 

Attachments

  • Waste.png
    Waste.png
    18 KB · Views: 11

NGAHaze

Gold Contributor
Member For 5 Years
Yes it can be dangerous if handled incorrectly but I don't think a hazmat crew is necessary to dispose of it safely. If you don't want to put it down the sink then maybe dilute it another way.

In fact, if you are on a septic system, I would probably chose an alternate means of dilution and use that solution to kill off creepy crawlers in the back yard. :D

But that's just me ... I ain't skeered of no 400mg Nic, I've even handled Roundup, lol.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
use that solution to kill off creepy crawlers in the back yard. :D

I was thinking the same thing and request he send it my way to use as a natural pesticide! Last year I accidentally screwed with Malathion in a heavy concentration and got pretty fucked up but we had no bugs the rest of they season!
 
Last edited:

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Jeez are you still going on. Move on bro and chill out


Sent from my Apple Newton using Tapatalk
He does have a serious problem and the information I supplied was from a chemist. When I came back on here to see all his writing I then knew he has a problem.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I would give the information supplied by @David Wolf more value than what what supplied by Reddit. Just my humble opinion but really now........
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Hey I spilled my 48MG/ML once and had my whole hand covered in it should have have run to the ER? Shouldn't I be dead right now?
 

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Hey I spilled my 48MG/ML once and had my whole hand covered in it should have have run to the ER? Shouldn't I be dead right now?
No I have even got 60mg on me and all I got was little sick but then 1000 would of been a complete different story
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Well if you did the math what I spilled of the 48MG would have been 10 Times what 1,000 MG would have been. Believe it or not I only cleaned up wth pa[er towels because I was more concerned with the mess I made. I guess I should have gotten sick or some other BS imagined effect of getting so much nicotine on my skin. Oh shit what did I do? Fucking BS you have actually gotten sick from momentary exposure.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I have vaped over 30ML's of 3MG today already so with your BS formula I should be shitting my brains out and throwing up with a nasty headache, That's right I call Bull Shit. Just my opinion but I have had real life experience and exposure.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Also I have never seen 60MG as a regular strength offered for purchase. 36/48/72/100 is what I usually see............
 

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Well if you did the math what I spilled of the 48MG would have been 10 Times what 1,000 MG would have been. Believe it or not I only cleaned up wth pa[er towels because I was more concerned with the mess I made. I guess I should have gotten sick or some other BS imagined effect of getting so much nicotine on my skin. Oh shit what did I do? Fucking BS you have actually gotten sick from momentary exposure.
It was actually 6% 6o mg And I was referring to 1000% or 99.8 pure just did not say, so is this weaker than 48mg lol
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
So you are saying you actually worked with pure Nicotine? I asked where did you get 60ML nicotine from? OK sure you made it I guess! You are so all over the place it is laughable.
 

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
So you are saying you actually worked with pure Nicotine? I asked where did you get 60ML nicotine from? OK sure you made it I guess! You are so all over the place it is laughable.
Once again 6% 6omg is what I got on me and made me sick. The 1000% 99.8 % pure is what I was referring to in the beginning of this thread. I would never use this strength as I said previously because it will kill you.
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Again 6% is or 60 MG/Ml is an unusual concentration to have and your insistence of that concentration is what proves it is BS because you never said where it came from. Again I call BULL SHIT. Leave me alone and stop quoting me because I won't believe you if you say the sky is blue at this point
 
Last edited:

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Again 6% is or 6MG/Ml is an unusual concentration to have and your insistence of that concentration is what proves it is BS because you never said where it came from. Again I call BULL SHIT. Leave me alone and stop quoting me because I won't believe you if you say the sky is blue at this point
Lol this is why most reputable companies will not sell nic any higher than around 100mg
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
Lol this is why most reputable companies will not sell nic any higher than around 100mg

And they sell in increments of 36/48/72/100 usually which proves you are full of shit. Sorry to repeat myself but WTF????
 

SteveS45

Diamond Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
No matter if you actually post a link to some real scientific data it doesn't matter to me because I will never even spend the time to see if it is accurate from now on so pleas STOP fucking quoting me or you will be ignored with the rest of the assholes.
 

Time

Platinum Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Lol this is why most reputable companies will not sell nic any higher than around 100mg

Companies make more money selling diluted nicotine. The more diluted, the more money they make. That's why they sell it that way. And the internet myth you're spouting is good for their business.

Pure nic is easy to find and people use it. No deaths.

But, I agree that YOU should not use it. Or take a bath. The water in the tub could kill you. You don't seem smart enough to not drown.
 

wally

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
No matter if you actually post a link to some real scientific data it doesn't matter to me because I will never even spend the time to see if it is accurate from now on so pleas STOP fucking quoting me or you will be ignored with the rest of the assholes.
You are the one that quoted me over and over and as far as 6% 60 mg being being unusual concentration I have been buying it from wizard labs for almost 6 years now lol.
 

scalewiz

VU Donator
Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
A few years ago, guy in a bar gave me the "a doctor on TV said one drop on the skin can kill you!" We laughed, and I squirted a couple ml of 18 mg juice on my tongue. Then invited him to have a beer with me. It was a good night; felt not one thing. The 60 mg lethal limit might apply to smaller children, but to an adult you can multiply that by around 10.

No fear here. I now use/possess pure nic. Takes up a lot less space. But I don't recommend the average person do that.
 

David Wolf

Silver Contributor
Member For 2 Years
Member For 1 Year
ECF Refugee
If it was 1000 mg then one drop your skin could kill you.
lol, well Wally, the only "problem" I see is this false shrill claim you made - twice in this thread. And that's your problem, not mine. :D

I provided a link and evidence of this being untrue with this link, from the Archives of Toxicology:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880486/
"The discrepancy between the 60-mg dose and published cases of nicotine intoxication has been noted previously (Matsushima et al. 1995; Metzler et al. 2005), but nonetheless, this value is still accepted without scrutiny and taken as the basis for worldwide safety regulations of tobacco and other nicotine-containing products. Nicotine is a toxic compound that should be handled with care, but the frequent warnings of potential fatalities caused by ingestion of small amounts of tobacco products or diluted nicotine-containing solutions are unjustified and need to be revised in light of overwhelming data indicating that more than 0.5 g of oral nicotine is required to kill an adult."

If anyone cares to actually read it (though admittedly, its more fun to just you know, write shit), it even goes into the history of how the false claims of an LD 60 mg came to be in the 19th century, and how that incorrect information is still being propagated even today.

And you got sick because 60 mg nic touched you?? People VAPE 60mg nic salts in Juul pods.
Juul Pods:
Results and discussion
Benzoic acid and nicotine levels in JUULTM pod fluids
The concentrations of benzoic acid and nicotine in the JUULTM pod fluids were found to be
44.8 ± 0.6 and 61.6 ± 1.5 mg/mL respectively, corresponding to a benzoic acid/nicotine molar
concentration ratio of 0.97 to 1). For comparison, as noted above, analyses in our laboratory
have indicated the presence of benzoic acid in 14 commercial refill e-liquids at levels estimated
to be in the range 0.02 to 2 mg/mL.
Source (Benzene formation study linked above): http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0173055

If posting factual data is a problem, I am happy to claim it. haha :D
 
Last edited:

VU Sponsors

Top