Watts vs. Temp control?

strigamort said:

I'll take all that kanthal. I tc kanthal very well in the Hohm Wrecker. Seriously, it vapes extremely well. I have my current setup dialed in so well I can't go back to watts. I know as soon as my rda starts going dry and it makes it easier to drip on since I never have to pull the cap to check. Just a squirt down the drip tip and off I go. Of course everything else tc's well too, but it's cool (to me) to use kanthal. I still have a few spools of ss waiting for me at home though just for ramp times. I can see why some wouldn't want this block and it's silly symbols though. Too bad the fsk chipset isn't going into more mods. It's a wasted technology that has real merit.

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Watts mode also lets me know as soon as my RDA starts going dry. At least for me, temp control is not needed for that. And I never pull the cap to check. I always just squirt down the drip tip. All temp control does for me is it just wrecks the vape experience. Doesn't matter which setup I try or use... it's still one big fail to me─also regardless of how I dial it in. Either that, or it doesn't improve anything at all so it's still nothing more than a perfect waste of time. The problem just persistently repeats itself each time when I install a new coil build. Tried to dial in temp control on so many different mods now... always by screwing my RDAs onto a different mod, and then another mod, and another RDA, and and... seriously. Fuck temp fucking control. Just fucking fuck it. Finally, if your coil build consists of a Nichrome80 wire wrapped around Kanthal core wires (one of my personal favorite ways to build my own coils), then temp control will be pretty much impossible. So if it works for you, then do it... it's the holy grail for you. For me, it just makes the mod more expensive for no good reason whatsoever.

NONE of my mods do TC properly. I get the jist of it on my Battlestar but realised TC mode is overrated for me. When I wanna use SS wire, it works fine in wattage mode.

Carambrda said:

Watts mode also lets me know as soon as my RDA starts going dry. At least for me, temp control is not needed for that. And I never pull the cap to check. I always just squirt down the drip tip. All temp control does for me is it just wrecks the vape experience. Doesn't matter which setup I try or use... it's still one big fail to me─also regardless of how I dial it in. Either that, or it doesn't improve anything at all so it's still nothing more than a perfect waste of time. The problem just persistently repeats itself each time when I install a new coil build. Tried to dial in temp control on so many different mods now... always by screwing my RDAs onto a different mod, and then another mod, and another RDA, and and... seriously. Fuck temp fucking control. Just fucking fuck it. Finally, if your coil build consists of a Nichrome80 wire wrapped around Kanthal core wires (one of my personal favorite ways to build my own coils), then temp control will be pretty much impossible. So if it works for you, then do it... it's the holy grail for you. For me, it just makes the mod more expensive for no good reason whatsoever.

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Just fucking fuck it... Haha I get it man. It's definitely a burgeoning technology that may not even be necessary. A solution in search of a problem as they say. I hated trying on my Alien, and I don't have any other experience besides the Hohm fsk board. I do believe that anyone can dial it in on that chipset though. Then again, I guess it does take a bit of research and whatnot to do. It's just that it's really interesting to me so it isn't a chore. You can actually do multiple types of wires at once with this mod. Mixing resistance wires are not a problem, but it is definitely fiddly. I probably wouldn't bother on any other chipset, but the appeal of this box in the first place, for me, was to fiddle. In some ways I'm let down because I fiddled with the Alien far more trying to get it set up the way I wanted and never really got it dialed in.

I just read a comment from someone here who said that the fsk will ruin tc for any other mod if you use it and I believe that's entirely possible. I wish I could afford to buy more of these, especially since I wouldn't mind trying my hand at building a custom enclosure. It's a chunky mod with a great interior, but I believe the form factor could be more appealing. Really a bummer that they aren't going to continue refining the board because a lot of it could probably be automatic, or easier to use for the person that doesn't have the time or will to work with what's available. I guess it'll die off and disappear, but I think it's a shame. If it sounds appealing to anyone else, I suggest you buy one now.

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TC definitely has a reason to be, (relatively) high vaping temperatures have shown evidence of eliquid degrading and producing aldehydes. Even in low-powered configurations, mind you.
That said I believe TC isn't yet a fully mature technology, as currently proposed: it needs substantial perfection in all the components - mod, atomizer, coil build - or else it's just a pain in the ass.
That's why I'm sticking to 'watt mode' for the time being... My interim solution, so to speak, is to add a percentage of water - 10 or even 15% - to eliquid, so that its boiling point is significantly lowered.
Note: that works for me, not necessarily for anyone else

xpen said:

TC definitely has a reason to be, (relatively) high vaping temperatures have shown evidence of eliquid degrading and producing aldehydes. Even in low-powered configurations, mind you.
That said I believe TC isn't yet a fully mature technology, as currently proposed: it needs substantial perfection in all the components - mod, atomizer, coil build - or else it's just a pain in the ass.
That's why I'm sticking to 'watt mode' for the time being... My interim solution, so to speak, is to add a percentage of water - 10 or even 15% - to eliquid, so that its boiling point is significantly lowered.
Note: that works for me, not necessarily for anyone else

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Ack, that IS a good reason. I watched all of the videos regarding aldehydes and their production at high temperatures. I haven't determined a good personal solution because I don't have any idea on the *actual* temp that I'm vaping at and generally prefer a warm vape. It's not the warmth so much as the flavor. I really don't care for weak flavor at all (feels like a waste of juice) and so I've largely ignored the possible side effects. I also am not convinced that we know enough to determine on our own what is safe and what isn't, at least I can't. I shouldn't speak for anyone else.

The other thing I feel like I need to really know is, how toxic, what aldehydes I'm consuming are, in relation to my willingness to vape versus smoke. I could vape cool, but am I willing to go without flavor and not smoke? Probably not. Not until I know if what I'm doing is actually as bad as smoking. Just not enough information. Absolutely no one should follow my way of thinking though.

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How bad is vaping for me?
I feel much better than when I smoked and did not quit smoking for health reasons.
I did it because the wife sneaked and got me an overpriced cigalike kit so figured I would try it.
Worked and I figured out how to save lots of money by vapin.

So vaping could be as bad as cigs for me and I would not care.

Loves my antifreeze with diketones and a bit of formaldehyde thrown in

strigamort said:

Ack, that IS a good reason. I watched all of the videos regarding aldehydes and their production at high temperatures. I haven't determined a good personal solution because I don't have any idea on the *actual* temp that I'm vaping at and generally prefer a warm vape. It's not the warmth so much as the flavor. I really don't care for weak flavor at all (feels like a waste of juice) and so I've largely ignored the possible side effects. I also am not convinced that we know enough to determine on our own what is safe and what isn't, at least I can't. I shouldn't speak for anyone else.

The other thing I feel like I need to really know is, how toxic, what aldehydes I'm consuming are, in relation to my willingness to vape versus smoke. I could vape cool, but am I willing to go without flavor and not smoke? Probably not. Not until I know if what I'm doing is actually as bad as smoking. Just not enough information. Absolutely no one should follow my way of thinking though.

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No liquid will reach a temperature above its boiling point, so in theory you know what your max vaping temp is - provided you have no shorts/hot legs and the wick is fully wet, of course.
I vape only VG, and its boiling temp when pure is around 270C/520F
By adding some 10% of water its BP falls below 200C/390F, where no nasties can be generated
Or, you may use TC to limit the max vaping temp to say 500F, assuming everything works as advertised.
All in all, I still prefer my way

The Cromwell said:

How bad is vaping for me?
I feel much better than when I smoked and did not quit smoking for health reasons.
I did it because the wife sneaked and got me an overpriced cigalike kit so figured I would try it.
Worked and I figured out how to save lots of money by vapin.

So vaping could be as bad as cigs for me and I would not care.

Loves my antifreeze with diketones and a bit of formaldehyde thrown in

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That's an old debate my friend...
After 5+ years of vaping I feel as good as new.. I do feel the difference, to be sure.
Even assuming vaping would kill me anyway, which I don't believe, I'd still go for it over smoking.
Over the past couple years my liquid consumption skyrocketed though - recent atoms play in a different league, IMO - so I'm now a bit more vigilant as to what I vape on, and how.
That's it. No hysteria, no scaremongering.

xpen said:

Even assuming vaping would kill me anyway, which I don't believe, I'd still go for it over smoking.

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Same here.
I enjoy vapin lots more than smokin.
My point is that I did not switch to vapin for my health.
EX 40+ yr smoker.

One point though I do vape all DIY.
I know what goes into my juice and I have an absolute maximum total flavoring percentage of 10%.
That should reduce risks since that is less than 1/2 of the flavoring level of most commercial juices.

Life is strange.. I switched to vaping for supporting my wife doing the same, her asthma was getting worrying because of smoking, and in one month I've quit smoking for good - while still today she lights one up from time to time
Go speak about unintended consequences...
Yeah, me too DIY from day one; it's much easier to be (more) in control this way - let alone how much money we've saved over the past 5 yrs
Apologies for the OT digression..

xpen said:

No liquid will reach a temperature above its boiling point, so in theory you know what your max vaping temp is - provided you have no shorts/hot legs and the wick is fully wet, of course.
I vape only VG, and its boiling temp when pure is around 270C/520F
By adding some 10% of water its BP falls below 200C/390F, where no nasties can be generated
Or, you may use TC to limit the max vaping temp to say 500F, assuming everything works as advertised.
All in all, I still prefer my way

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I'm curious about adding water. What effect besides lowering the boiling point, does it have? Does it pop or anything else? I think I'll give it a try, just because I like to try everything.

On a side note, tonight I was vaping pure vg (zero flavor) with 6mg of nicotine. Actually it's 80% vg (after looking at the label) from Liquid Barn. Anyway, I don't know if anyone else has tried this, well, obviously I'm not the first... But it was kinda nice with a slight sweetness on the inhale.

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I can only speak about adding water to VG, for it's all I vape on (Aqueous VG, AVG)
The good point of AVG for me is that you can have a lowered boiling point even on mechs, what I call the poor man's TC
Effects:
- a bit less vapor, beyond 10% water
- no popping, or at least nothing unusual
- much easier to work with (thinner)
- better flavor rendering than pure VG, IMO
Many vendors - at least here in Europe - dilute VG in bases with up to 20% water for making it thinner

xpen said:

I can only speak about adding water to VG, for it's all I vape on (Aqueous VG, AVG)
The good point of AVG for me is that you can have a lowered boiling point even on mechs, what I call the poor man's TC
Effects:
- a bit less vapor, beyond 10% water
- no popping, or at least nothing unusual
- much easier to work with (thinner)
- better flavor rendering than pure VG, IMO
Many vendors - at least here in Europe - dilute VG in bases with up to 20% water for making it thinner

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Awesome. I'll report back on how it works out for me.

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So I vaped a tank of 80% vg (no flavor), 6mg and added about a half a ml to 5ml juice. I didn't notice much of a change (that's good), but what I did notice is that I got through the tank a little faster than normal. At least it seems that way. Normally on my evening walk I vape one tank. Last night I refilled my tank about 2/3rds of the way through my walk. It could be that I simply vaped more than usual, but I don't think so. Still, no loss if adding something that's basically free is what caused the faster capillary action. I don't mind refilling a tank more frequently. There's no way that I know of to prove that this is healthier, but I don't think it's less healthy than what I'm used to vaping. I'll continue to experiment.

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20% water is at the extreme end of the AVG spectrum, as far as I'm concerned..
I like 15% better and that's what i use regularly.
Never noticed different liquid consumption in relation to the water percentage, but I'm stuck with 15% water since at least 1 yr so go figure

I was at the vape shop this afternoon. While trying some flavors (seeing if I like menthols. I do!) I noticed that one of the juices had water listed in the ingredients.

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I build my coils and use ss for temp control which I have had very good luck with and is all I use now with no problems with ss or ti. I just bought the new eleaf Ikonn 220 and temp works perfect on that mod.

I bought some ss coils for tc on my captain. I'm not sure I like it lol. Maybe it's the bulk of the coil or the captains ability to tc. Seems like there is a long ramp up time ~2secs, then all of a sudden it's like someone flipped the liquid hot magma switch or some kind of heat turbo kicks in. I even turned it down to 300F and got the same thing at 450F. I also noticed it's using WAY more amps. 32-35 sometimes. That's ok when I'm using my 40amp 20700's but worry about it on my LG HG2's that are rated at 20amp. The coils I'm using are some big boys though. They're like 2 clapton wires twisted. It was doing something similar wit Ni80 regular claptons. I went poking around and according to the manufacturer the captain only does Ni200, which, I've never seen before as far as prebuilt coils are concerned...

Are there any other mods that do tc as well as the Hohm Wrecker G2? I really want to grab a new mod down the road, but it's gotta tc as well as the HW. Even if it's not capable of tc'ing Kanthal.

Slow ramp was what killed it for me on the Alien. It's like the mod had to think about it before deciding to go. I couldn't stand it, so I stuck with VW.

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strigamort said:

Are there any other mods that do tc as well as the Hohm Wrecker G2? I really want to grab a new mod down the road, but it's gotta tc as well as the HW. Even if it's not capable of tc'ing Kanthal.

Slow ramp was what killed it for me on the Alien. It's like the mod had to think about it before deciding to go. I couldn't stand it, so I stuck with VW.

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MaxPerilous said:

I bought some ss coils for tc on my captain. I'm not sure I like it lol. Maybe it's the bulk of the coil or the captains ability to tc. Seems like there is a long ramp up time ~2secs, then all of a sudden it's like someone flipped the liquid hot magma switch or some kind of heat turbo kicks in. I even turned it down to 300F and got the same thing at 450F. I also noticed it's using WAY more amps. 32-35 sometimes. That's ok when I'm using my 40amp 20700's but worry about it on my LG HG2's that are rated at 20amp. The coils I'm using are some big boys though. They're like 2 clapton wires twisted. It was doing something similar wit Ni80 regular claptons. I went poking around and according to the manufacturer the captain only does Ni200, which, I've never seen before as far as prebuilt coils are concerned...

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There is like two settings for your temp control the first one is degree and the second one is watts, I keep my watts at 30 because I use smaller wire. you may need to increase yours to the max. Had mine set at 220 watts and it kicked in so fast and hard I had to lower it a lot.