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Correct Batteries - Low Ohms - New Regulated Mod

Vapin-Dave

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OK ... So I've been reading a bunch of info on batteries and my brain is starting to hurt so I'm just making a thread instead. Some of the discussions are very technical. :huh:

I've been using LG HG2's for quite some time now. I currently have an Evic VTC Dual that I run in single or dual battery mode. My resistance is generally around .4 -.8 ohms. However I have some new clapton style coils on order and am looking at getting a new regulated mod as well.

I'm currently looking at the Evic Primo (dual 18650) or perhaps the Primo Mini (single 18650). I will likely normally be using single coils only but I may want to give a dual coil build a try. A dual coil build with the coils I'm getting could bring the resistance down around .2 ohms. I've been reading that the LG HG2's shouldn't be used below .3 ohms at least for a single battery mod. So when using 2 of these coils should I get some Sony VTC6 batteries or would I be fine with the LG's.

Just trying to be safe before the coils arrive and decide which batteries to get with a new regulated mod. Any help clarifying my confusion would be appreciated. :)
 

shawn.hoefer

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The Sony VTC6 is rated in the same range as the LH HG2...

You likely meant Sony VTC5A, which is a good enough choice.

But, honestly, the HG2s will serve you just as well in the ranges you're running.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

Vapin-Dave

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Thanks for the replies. I'd be much more concerned if I was running a mech mod. I assumed the regulated mod would figure it out but wanted to be sure. I also didn't know if running .2 - .25 ohms on a single LG HG2 would be fine. I guess the mod just wouldn't fire and give an error if it was too much to handle. With a single battery I'd never be going over 75-80 watts anyways. So if that wasn't enough power I'd have to use at least a dual battery mod.

I had just read a bunch of info on using the LG HG2's at 60w and below. So I thought if I was to get a new mod I may as well get the proper batteries to go with it. :cool:
 
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The Cromwell

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An HG2 should be good for 75-80 watts on a single cell. 150-160 on 2 cells.

Of course at 75-80 watts on a single cell your charge will not last too long.

these are recommended always safe figures. They can be pushed a bit higher with out too much risk
 

Vapin-Dave

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So at some point when I do get new batteries should I stick with LG HG2's or should I switch to Samsung 30Q's, Sony VTC 5A's or VTC 6's? I usually run in Temp mode if that makes a difference at all. And the new coils I'm getting are all SS316L so I can still run in temp mode.
 
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shawn.hoefer

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Samsung 30Q are my current cell of choice for moderate power vaping (up to 60 single and 120 dual). If I want more, I switch to VTC5A. If I'm gonna try and max things out, LG HB4.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

nightshard

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HG2, VTC6 and 30Q have roughly the same rating and capacity.
Out of the three I would choose 30Q first and HG2 last.
If you're happy with the HG2s keep them, it you want another pair in addition to them, get the 30Qs.
 

IMFire3605

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OK ... So I've been reading a bunch of info on batteries and my brain is starting to hurt so I'm just making a thread instead. Some of the discussions are very technical. :huh:

I've been using LG HG2's for quite some time now. I currently have an Evic VTC Dual that I run in single or dual battery mode. My resistance is generally around .4 -.8 ohms. However I have some new clapton style coils on order and am looking at getting a new regulated mod as well.

I'm currently looking at the Evic Primo (dual 18650) or perhaps the Primo Mini (single 18650). I will likely normally be using single coils only but I may want to give a dual coil build a try. A dual coil build with the coils I'm getting could bring the resistance down around .2 ohms. I've been reading that the LG HG2's shouldn't be used below .3 ohms at least for a single battery mod. So when using 2 of these coils should I get some Sony VTC6 batteries or would I be fine with the LG's.

Just trying to be safe before the coils arrive and decide which batteries to get with a new regulated mod. Any help clarifying my confusion would be appreciated. :)

The LG HG2 for all intents and purposes for your applications will be fine. Key to remember with a regulated mod (any device with an electronic regulation control board which is all you are using) your resistance (Ohms) only come into account of the regulator board reading them to determine if the resistance is in its operating range (average Ohm operating ranges are 0.1ohms to 3.0ohms) and once reading those Ohms adjust the voltage to your set wattage, in TC mode real time monitoring that resistance to determine roughly the temperature of the wire of the coils, after that resistance has no other applications. The HG2 being rated in the 3000mah 20amp battery tier, general rule of thumb is maximum watts per battery they can handle is 60watts per battery (dual battery that is 120watts, triple battery 180watts). Remember that the amps you are seeing the mods display are the amps being sent from the control board, not the amps being pulled from the batteries themselves, so that display is a placebo in this instance, to determine the max watts you are pulling from the batteries is to use a Watts formula. (Watts Set/Lowest Voltage)/90% Mod Efficiency Rating=Maximum Amps

Watts Set = Pretty Simple to figure from you mod display screen
Lowest Voltage = Regulated Mods pull the most amps at the lowest charge, on average this is 3.2v per battery, multi-battery mods in series that is voltage X Number of batteries, your VTC Dual that becomes 6.4v
Mod Efficiency Rating = The control board takes power to function, and is dependent on the brand of board, Evolv DNA200 for example has a 97 to 98% efficiency rating (2 to 3% of the voltage is taken to function) with the Joyetech/Wismec boards that decrease is about 10% on average thus leaving 90% in use to the tank coils

Example
120watts/6.4v=18.75amps/90%=20.83333 Maximum Amps Needed
 

conanthewarrior

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Member For 4 Years
What power are you running at? Resistance means nothing in regards to amp load on your batteries with a regulated mod, 0.1 or 1 Ohm will be the same at 50W on your batteries.

For up to around 120W in a dual 18650 setup you will be fine with some 3000MAH, 20A batteries, like the HG2 or 30Q. If you want to go higher, you will want something with a higher CDR, like the VTC5A.

Single 18650, unless you plan on running low power levels I find the 3000MAH cells to not last as long as something with less capacity like a 25R or HE4.
If you plan on going above around 55W with a single 18650, you really are safest with something like the VTC5A. A 25R or HE4 would very likely be fine, but it will be going over their CDR which you should not do.
 

Carambrda

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Mooch has tested them, and his test results have shown the VTC6 is slightly better than both the 30Q and the 25R, as well as have shown the HG2 is slightly worse than those. But the VTC5A is even better still, both because it has less voltage sag and because it is 25 amps CDR so it runs cooler, which means it degrades slower through normal wear and tear, and it's a little safer if something goes wrong with the regulated mod. (Even, if you don't go very far above medium wattage like say something around maybe 80 watts with two batteries in a series configuration on a regulated mod.) So... only if you vape at either low or very low wattage does it really start to make some sense to go for the VTC6 instead of the VTC5A, and, only if you can't get the VTC6 does it make sense to still follow the old mantra that surrounds the 30Q and 25R. Notice I am purposely not talking about mech mods. This is because way too many people wrongfully assume the VTC5A is not currently, until someone makes a better battery, Mooch's top favorite 18650 battery for BOTH mech mod AND regulated mod... Personally, I, own eighteen VTC5A batteries. They are great batteries. :D
 

Vapin-Dave

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RIght now I'm vaping at a 30-50 watt range generally. I only run single coils in both my RDA and RDTA. However I thought if I was to try some of the SS Clapton and Caterpillar coils that I'm getting in dual coil mode my watts would likely go up as the resistance went down. And looking to get a new mod I starting thinking about also getting new batteries. So after doing some battery research I found a bunch of info on wattage and battery type. I previously never even thought this would be a concern.

So it seems from all the info that has been offered here I would likely be fine with HG2 or 30Q batteries but would be 'covering my ass' so to speak with the VTC5A's. Does that sound about right? Are there any disadvantages to the VTC5A's ... such as do they not last as long etc.?
 

Vapin-Dave

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VTC5As have lower capacity then HG2s and 30Qs

Yes ... which means they wouldn't last as long at the same wattage as the other two correct? However they would be better to use in higher wattage scenarios. Just want to make sure I'm understanding all of this properly. ;)
 

Vapin-Dave

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Wait ... they all have the same mAh rating. The only difference is the value for continuous discharge. The 30Q at 15A, the HG2 at 20A and the VTC5A at 25A. So basically the Sony battery can handle more current and discharge than the others.? :huh:

Not sure why this is so difficult for me to wrap my head around. :rolleyes:
 

conanthewarrior

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Yes ... which means they wouldn't last as long at the same wattage as the other two correct? However they would be better to use in higher wattage scenarios. Just want to make sure I'm understanding all of this properly. ;)
Exactly that :)

For most people, in a dual 18650 configuration, a 30Q or HG2 is plenty and you benefit from the extra capacity. If you are running them very hard though, the increased capacity isn't much more than say a 25R.
This is pushing them hard though, if you plan to vape at say 50-100W I would go for them. Around 120W is fine to use them at.

If you want to go higher than this with a dual 18650 mod, I would go for the VTC5A. Otherwise go for one of the higher capacity sets.
 

conanthewarrior

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Wait ... they all have the same mAh rating. The only difference is the value for continuous discharge. The 30Q at 15A, the HG2 at 20A and the VTC5A at 25A. So basically the Sony battery can handle more current and discharge than the others.? :huh:

Not sure why this is so difficult for me to wrap my head around. :rolleyes:
No, the 30Q and HG2 are 3000MAH, the VTC5A is 2500MAH(according to Mooch, sony states 2600MAH). The Samsung 30Q is rated very low by Samsung and can be pushed harder, and Mooch states they are fine for 20A, the VTC5A is good for 25A.
 

nightshard

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Need to learn to differentiate between vendor publicized specs, data sheet specs and testing specs.
Vendors tend to overrate batteries.
Data sheets tend to overrate or underrate batteries and in some cases are unclear or misleading (like in the case of Sony with the 30A@80C rating).
Tests seem to be the most accurate.
 
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Carambrda

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VTC6 is about the same as 30Q and HG2
About the same, but not entirely the same. According to Mooch anyway... as his test results show the VTC6 runs at a higher voltage for longer, and, in addition, runs a bit cooler so if you don't have to jump through burning hoops to get the VTC6, then get the VTC6. Or VTC5A if you vape at medium or high wattage like I said, and, before anyone asks once again, nope... you don't need to vape at more than 120 watts on a dual 18650 series regulated mod to be able to totally utterly and completely justify getting the VTC5A instead. lol
 

conanthewarrior

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About the same, but not entirely the same. According to Mooch anyway... as his test results show the VTC6 runs at a higher voltage for longer, and, in addition, runs a bit cooler so if you don't have to jump through burning hoops to get the VTC6, then get the VTC6. Or VTC5A if you vape at medium or high wattage like I said, and, before anyone asks once again, nope... you don't need to vape at more than 120 watts on a dual 18650 series regulated mod to be able to totally utterly and completely justify getting the VTC5A instead. lol

But why would you want the VTC5A's over a set of 30Q's or even VTC6's if you are vaping at 120W and under on a regulated mod lol? You are just spending more money and sacrificing capacity. I could understand if it was for a mech mod, where voltage drop would be an issue, but not regulated and at more sedate levels where the increase in capacity will be beneficial.

Even at 20A there is a big increase in capacity from Mooch's tests so I don't see why the VTC5A would be better. The VTC5A is a fantastic battery, but it depends on your intended use which to go for.
 
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Carambrda

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But why would you want the VTC5A's over a set of 30Q's or even VTC6's if you are vaping at 120W and under on a regulated mod lol? You are just spending more money and sacrificing capacity. I could understand if it was for a mech mod, where voltage drop would be an issue, but not regulated and at more sedate levels where the increase in capacity will be beneficial.

Even at 20A there is a big increase in capacity from Mooch's tests so I don't see why the VTC5A would be better. The VTC5A is a fantastic battery, but it depends on your intended use which to go for.
Code:
https://youtu.be/BOtL4cjODgY?t=671
 

conanthewarrior

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Code:
https://youtu.be/BOtL4cjODgY?t=671
Yes, he said they are the best all round battery- high amp rating, but the MAH of a 25R. If you want a great all round battery, they are a fantastic choice, I have never denied that, but you can look at the man himselfs graphs from testing and see for this kind of use a 30Q, HG2, or VTC6 is better.

There is a difference between a good all round battery, and one for a certain use. If you want to go from say low power to high power, the VTC5A is fantastic.
If however, you aren't pushing things too hard, the others are a better choice. Mooch even explained in the video you linked if you are at say 25A you can get the MAH of a higher capacity cell due to the way they act- but if you are not pushing things hard his graphs back up other batteries would be a better choice.
 

Carambrda

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Yes, he said they are the best all round battery- high amp rating, but the MAH of a 25R. If you want a great all round battery, they are a fantastic choice, I have never denied that, but you can look at the man himselfs graphs from testing and see for this kind of use a 30Q, HG2, or VTC6 is better.

There is a difference between a good all round battery, and one for a certain use. If you want to go from say low power to high power, the VTC5A is fantastic.
If however, you aren't pushing things too hard, the others are a better choice. Mooch even explained in the video you linked if you are at say 25A you can get the MAH of a higher capacity cell due to the way they act- but if you are not pushing things hard his graphs back up other batteries would be a better choice.
Well if you watch the video more closely you will notice he doesn't say it's the mAh of a 25R (2500 mAh). What he does say is that, depending on how you use it, you can get the mAh of a 30Q (3000 mAh) from it thanks to the higher voltage, and he also hints at performance (which does matter even for a regulated mod) as well as hints at how long you can expect to keep getting such performance until you need to buy new batteries so your assertion that you're just sacrificing mAh without getting something useful in exchange is still not in line with Mooch's words.
 

conanthewarrior

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Well if you watch the video more closely you will notice he doesn't say it's the mAh of a 25R (2500 mAh). What he does say is that, depending on how you use it, you can get the mAh of a 30Q (3000 mAh) from it thanks to the higher voltage, and he also hints at performance (which does matter even for a regulated mod) as well as hints at how long you can expect to keep getting such performance until you need to buy new batteries so your assertion that you're just sacrificing mAh without getting something useful in exchange is still not in line with Mooch's words.
"You get the performance of the HB series, but the MAH of a 25R" "DEPENDING how you use it, you can get the MAH of a HG2/30Q"- and this is what I stated before, at higher amp loads- under this level you can check his very own graphs to see the 30Q performs better.

I even said you can get the capacity of a higher MAH cell at higher amp loads with the VTC5A, which is what he says too.

He says for under 60W per battery, which would be 120W, you can't beat the HG2 or 30Q in that very video.

So what he is saying is it is the best all around battery. I don't know what is confusing here lol, I have never said the VTC5A is not good, it is fantastic, but there are better choices for specific uses- say at loads under 20A in a regulated mod. As in, not all round use.

I have batteries for all round use, then ones suited better to certain needs.
 
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Carambrda

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"You get the performance of the HB series, but the MAH of a 25R" "DEPENDING how you use it, you can get the MAH of a HG2/30Q"- and this is what I stated before, at higher amp loads- under this level you can check his very own graphs to see the 30Q performs better.

I even said you can get the capacity of a higher MAH cell at higher amp loads with the VTC5A, which is what he says too.

He says for under 60W per battery, which would be 120W, you can't beat the HG2 or 30Q in that very video.

So what he is saying is it is the best all around battery. I don't know what is confusing here lol, I have never said the VTC5A is not good, it is fantastic, but there are better choices for specific uses- say at loads under 20A in a regulated mod. As in, not all round use.

I have batteries for all round use, then ones suited better to certain needs.
Due to the higher voltage that the VTC5A runs at (resulting from the smaller voltage sag it has) a regulated mod draws less amps from the battery in order to produce the same power output, measured in watts. Mooch's pulse current graphs do not reflect this because you're still looking at 30 amp pulses for both the 30Q and the VTC5A. The number of good 30 amp pulses on his graphs is 47 for the VTC5A versus 54 for the 30Q. So yeah... you can get an additional seven 30 amp pulses out of the 30Q, but that's only because they're 30 amp pulses as opposed to being 60 watt pulses of course. lol :p

As for "you can't beat the HG2 or 30Q", that's assuming you can't get the VTC6, which is what he says in that video too, immediately after the part of it that you are referring to here.
 

conanthewarrior

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Due to the higher voltage that the VTC5A runs at (resulting from the smaller voltage sag it has) a regulated mod draws less amps from the battery in order to produce the same power output, measured in watts. Mooch's pulse current graphs do not reflect this because you're still looking at 30 amp pulses for both the 30Q and the VTC5A. The number of good 30 amp pulses on his graphs is 47 for the VTC5A versus 54 for the 30Q. So yeah... you can get an additional seven 30 amp pulses out of the 30Q, but that's only because they're 30 amp pulses as opposed to being 60 watt pulses of course. lol :p

As for "you can't beat the HG2 or 30Q", that's assuming you can't get the VTC6, which is what he says in that video too, immediately after the part of it that you are referring to here.

I was never talking about 30 amp pulses though lol- I am talking about the performance of the batteries under 20A, which I have mentioned all along, and looking at the graphs you can see the increase in MAH is quite large and would be of benefit over the VTC5A. I realise how a regulated mod works, and at the same wattage with a higher input voltage amp load will be lower.

I did mention previously too the VTC6, any of the three 3000MAH batteries would be better for use at a lower power level than the VTC5A.

The 25R has been the standard other batteries are compared to for a long time, the VTC5A seems to now be a fantastic all rounder, although I do still think the 25R will stay very popular due to its low price to performance ratio.
 

Carambrda

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I was never talking about 30 amp pulses though lol- I am talking about the performance of the batteries under 20A, which I have mentioned all along, and looking at the graphs you can see the increase in MAH is quite large and would be of benefit over the VTC5A. I realise how a regulated mod works, and at the same wattage with a higher input voltage amp load will be lower.

I did mention previously too the VTC6, any of the three 3000MAH batteries would be better for use at a lower power level than the VTC5A.

The 25R has been the standard other batteries are compared to for a long time, the VTC5A seems to now be a fantastic all rounder, although I do still think the 25R will stay very popular due to its low price to performance ratio.
There are no "under 20A" pulses on Mooch's graphs. Like I already said the increase in mAh for the 30Q compared to the increase in mAh for the VTC5A as amps go down is not representative due to the fact you don't require just amps to get your desired watts, but volts as well... watts = amps multiplied by volts. Don't get me wrong, though... I love people who, even when it's not warranted, still buy the 30Q / HG2. Some competition helps to bring the prices down, which saved me money last time when I added another ten VTC5As to my inventory. (I got them for less than 5 Euros each.) :D
 

conanthewarrior

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There are no "under 20A" pulses on Mooch's graphs. Like I already said the increase in mAh for the 30Q compared to the increase in mAh for the VTC5A as amps go down is not representative due to the fact you don't require just amps to get your desired watts, but volts as well... watts = amps multiplied by volts. Don't get me wrong, though... I love people who, even when it's not warranted, still buy the 30Q / HG2. Some competition helps to bring the prices down, which saved me money last time when I added another ten VTC5As to my inventory. (I got them for less than 5 Euros each.) :D

Look at his constant discharge graphs- you will then see the performance under 30A. Constant, but it still gives you a great idea.

I really don't see what you do not understand lol, the VTC5A is a great battery, but for other scenarios there are better batteries. I have wrote guides for regulated mods such as here https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/...lating-amp-load-using-a-regulated-mod.128294/
so I understand how they work.

I find it funny that even when the evidence you provided says a battery like the 30Q is better for the use I mention but you still say the VTC5A is better, even when Mooch himself says different with the video you provided against what I said, but it actually backed up my views lol.
If you don't agree with me, thats OK- but back it up with evidence!

"Don't get me wrong, though... I love people who, even when it's not warranted, still buy the 30Q / HG2. Some competition helps to bring the prices down, which saved me money last time when I added another ten VTC5As to my inventory."-even when the 30Q IS a better choice?

This really isn't going to go anywhere, stick to VTC5A's if you want. But before giving advice understand they are not the be all and end all of batteries.
 
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Carambrda

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Look at his constant discharge graphs- you will then see the performance under 30A. Constant, but it still gives you a great idea.

I really don't see what you do not understand lol, the VTC5A is a great battery, but for other scenarios there are better batteries. I have wrote guides for regulated mods such as here https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/...lating-amp-load-using-a-regulated-mod.128294/
so I understand how they work.

I find it funny that even when the evidence you provided says a battery like the 30Q is better for the use I mention but you still say the VTC5A is better, even when Mooch himself says different with the video you provided against what I said, but it actually backed up my views lol.
If you don't agree with me, thats OK- but back it up with evidence!

"Don't get me wrong, though... I love people who, even when it's not warranted, still buy the 30Q / HG2. Some competition helps to bring the prices down, which saved me money last time when I added another ten VTC5As to my inventory."-even when the 30Q IS a better choice?

This really isn't going to go anywhere, stick to VTC5A's if you want. But before giving advice understand they are not the be all and end all of batteries.
I didn't say the VTC5A is the be all end all. It's not. But you are assuming things about the performance that simply aren't correct. By looking at the constant discharge graphs, you are looking at constant amps. The reality is that a regulated mod regulates the amps depending on volts to achieve the desired watts. Remember the video dates back to October last year. The price gap between the VTC5A and the 30Q / HG2 used to be bigger than it is now. Mooch does say in the video he didn't care about the price premium that he paid. So the video didn't back up your views, and neither do his graphs. Volts do have an impact on vape performance of a regulated mod. Not saying everyone will necessarily always notice, nor that all regulated mods are created equal in this regard. I guess a lot also depends on your vaping style, how often you chain vape, other things like aging of the batteries due to normal wear and tear, and how all of that combined affects not just how long it takes before the batteries start running low, but also how well it actually vapes, as well as how long it takes before you need to buy new batteries.

You can demand evidence all you want, but another fact remains Mooch explicitly states the stuff he writes is only his own personal opinion. I'm not a black or white kind of guy either, instead I just think the point at which a 3000 mAh battery for a series dual 18650 regulated mod starts to gradually make better sense than the VTC5A is not clear cut at 120 watts, but rather somewhere in between maybe 80 watts and maybe 120 watts, depending on what exactly it is you are looking for. At 60 watts per battery, you certainly aren't going to necessarily always get all that many more puffs out of a pair of 30Qs / HG2s compared to a pair of VTC5As, all else being equal. Mooch says in the video, it's if you're looking for that extra bit of mAh. He doesn't say that's what everyone must always be looking for.
 
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conanthewarrior

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You provided the video to show why the VTC5A was a better choice, but the video then stated what I said all along- for under 120W in a dual 18650 regulated mod, then go for the 30Q or HG2. It was also stated the VTC6 if you can get them.

I understand the graph is showing constant amps. Do you think though that if a battery performs much better at providing a constant say 15A, it will not do exactly the same in a non constant scenario, such as vaping?
You only have to run battery analyzer in Escribe to see the increase in watt hours available to us, and I do use some of the 3000MAH batteries in one of my dual 18650 converted DNA200/133's.

I know how a regulated mod works. Volts will impact your performance in the sense that once you hit the board in questions low voltage point on the input side, you will get a weak battery message, or the mod will reduce power to a point the batteries can deliver said power. Some batteries will hit this point faster than others, and in some cases the increase in capacity is made redundant at higher amp loads, and the lower the voltage gets, the higher the amp load, resulting in a kind of vicious circle.

So I used the constant discharge graphs to show you a comparison- look at the VTC5A, then the 30Q. Look at which point say 3.1V is reached, which is a fairly common point for mods to cut off per cell. There is a fairly large increase in capacity available to us vapers by using something like the 30Q, HG2, or VTC6 over the VTC5A.

I understand it is his point of view, and it is yours too.
We can't deny the evidence the graphs show though. I'm not black and white either myself, like I said I have many different batteries for my mods.
I have ones that are great all rounders, like the VTC5A, ones with more capacity, then others for higher amp loads.

I mentioned 120W and under in my previous post for that exact reason- they make better sense at a point around this and under and like you say, it depends what you are looking for.

If you want something that will last longer at power levels that don't demand the extra available amps of the VTC5A, and still perform well while being safe, the 30Q or HG2 is a great choice.
If you want to do lots of experimenting, or vape at many different power levels, as in all round use, the VTC5A is great as I have said all along.

Thinking about it, I shouldn't of used the term 'be all and end all'- I was just referring to when you said "nope... you don't need to vape at more than 120 watts on a dual 18650 series regulated mod to be able to totally utterly and completely justify getting the VTC5A instead. lol" It just sounded like, at least to me, you was suggesting the VTC5A is better for that type of use.

I just wondered why exactly if you are vaping under say 120W, and if the 30Q or HG2 is cheaper, why you would go for the VTC5A instead?
 
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Carambrda

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You provided the video to show why the VTC5A was a better choice, but the video then stated what I said all along- for under 120W in a dual 18650 regulated mod, then go for the 30Q or HG2. It was also stated the VTC6 if you can get them.

I understand the graph is showing constant amps. Do you think though that if a battery performs much better at providing a constant say 15A, it will not do exactly the same in a non constant scenario, such as vaping?
You only have to run battery analyzer in Escribe to see the increase in watt hours available to us, and I do use some of the 3000MAH batteries in one of my dual 18650 converted DNA200/133's.

I know how a regulated mod works. Volts will impact your performance in the sense that once you hit the board in questions low voltage point on the input side, you will get a weak battery message, or the mod will reduce power to a point the batteries can deliver said power. Some batteries will hit this point faster than others, and in some cases the increase in capacity is made redundant at higher amp loads, and the lower the voltage gets, the higher the amp load, resulting in a kind of vicious circle.

So I used the constant discharge graphs to show you a comparison- look at the VTC5A, then the 30Q. Look at which point say 3.1V is reached, which is a fairly common point for mods to cut off per cell. There is a fairly large increase in capacity available to us vapers by using something like the 30Q, HG2, or VTC6 over the VTC5A.

I understand it is his point of view, and it is yours too.
We can't deny the evidence the graphs show though. I'm not black and white either myself, like I said I have many different batteries for my mods.
I have ones that are great all rounders, like the VTC5A, ones with more capacity, then others for higher amp loads.

I mentioned 120W and under in my previous post for that exact reason- they make better sense at a point around this and under and like you say, it depends what you are looking for.

If you want something that will last longer at power levels that don't demand the extra available amps of the VTC5A, and still perform well while being safe, the 30Q or HG2 is a great choice.
If you want to do lots of experimenting, or vape at many different power levels, as in all round use, the VTC5A is great as I have said all along.

Thinking about it, I shouldn't of used the term 'be all and end all'- I was just referring to when you said "nope... you don't need to vape at more than 120 watts on a dual 18650 series regulated mod to be able to totally utterly and completely justify getting the VTC5A instead. lol" It just sounded like, at least to me, you was suggesting the VTC5A is better for that type of use.

I just wondered why exactly if you are vaping under say 120W, and if the 30Q or HG2 is cheaper, why you would go for the VTC5A instead?
You are still forgetting that if a regulated mod draws 15 amps from a 30Q battery, then if you move to a VTC5A, it won't be 15 amps, but less. That's because the VTC5A runs at a higher voltage than the 30Q so the mod draws less amps to arrive at the exact same amount of watts (watts = amps multiplied by volts), and, if less amps are being drawn from the battery, then as a direct result from this it will take longer before the battery starts to run out.
 
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conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
You are still forgetting that if a regulated mod draws 15 amps from a 30Q battery, then if you move to a VTC5A, it won't be 15 amps, but less. That's because the VTC5A runs at a higher voltage than the 30Q so the mod draws less amps to arrive at the exact same amount of watts (watts = amps multiplied by volts), and, if less amps are being drawn from the battery, then as a direct result from this it will take longer before the battery starts to run out.

But you are forgetting the graphs that show at 15A the big increase in MAH of the 30Q vs the VTC5A. Assuming for example a cutoff voltage of 3.1V, or 6.2V in a dual 18650 regulated mod, there will still be a big increase in runtime.
EDIT: For clarity, this is assuming a 15A maximum- so at cut off.
 
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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
But you are forgetting the graphs that show at 15A the big increase in MAH of the 30Q vs the VTC5A. Assuming for example a cutoff voltage of 3.1V, or 6.2V in a dual 18650 regulated mod, there will still be a big increase in runtime.
EDIT: For clarity, this is assuming a 15A maximum- so at cut off. This is just an example.
No, I am not forgetting the graphs. Like I already said, the VTC5A runs at higher volts than the 30Q so you are still assuming this doesn't increase the runtime of the VTC5A in a regulated mod, but it most certainly does.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
No, I am not forgetting the graphs. Like I already said, the VTC5A runs at higher volts than the 30Q so you are still assuming this doesn't increase the runtime of the VTC5A in a regulated mod, but it most certainly does.

Look at my post a few above, I said this-
I know how a regulated mod works. Volts will impact your performance in the sense that once you hit the board in questions low voltage point on the input side, you will get a weak battery message, or the mod will reduce power to a point the batteries can deliver said power. Some batteries will hit this point faster than others, and in some cases the increase in capacity is made redundant at higher amp loads, and the lower the voltage gets, the higher the amp load, resulting in a kind of vicious circle.

So I definitely had not missed that point.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
Look at my post a few above, I said this-
I know how a regulated mod works. Volts will impact your performance in the sense that once you hit the board in questions low voltage point on the input side, you will get a weak battery message, or the mod will reduce power to a point the batteries can deliver said power. Some batteries will hit this point faster than others, and in some cases the increase in capacity is made redundant at higher amp loads, and the lower the voltage gets, the higher the amp load, resulting in a kind of vicious circle.

So I definitely had not missed that point.
Well if you understand the fact that the amount of amps the board draws from the battery is decreased as the amount of volts the battery can deliver is increased, surely you can also understand the fact that, BECAUSE the amount of amps the board draws from the battery is decreased, runtime of the battery is increased. So just in case you are still wondering why the amount of volts the battery can deliver is increased, it's simply because you are moving from the 30Q to the VTC5A, and the VTC5A runs at a higher voltage than the 30Q does, so... clearly, you still don't understand what voltage sag is.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Well if you understand the fact that the amount of amps the board draws from the battery is decreased as the amount of volts the battery can deliver is increased, surely you can also understand the fact that, BECAUSE the amount of amps the board draws from the battery is decreased, runtime of the battery is increased. So just in case you are still wondering why the amount of volts the battery can deliver is increased, it's simply because you are moving from the 30Q to the VTC5A, and the VTC5A runs at a higher voltage than the 30Q does, so... clearly, you still don't understand what voltage sag is.

I am at a loss what to say now. I don't know if you are playing around? Everything shows that in the application I have stated the 30Q or similar to be the ones to go for.

I even mentioned this "Some batteries will hit this point faster than others, and in some cases the increase in capacity is made redundant at higher amp loads" so I was actually talking about voltage under load here.

EDIT: I did write out a long reply, but there isn't really much to say when it is this simple.

If you are using a mech, or want to run high wattage or all around use, get the VTC5A. If you want longer runtime and are not demanding as much, get the 30Q, HG2, or VTC6.
 
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conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I spoke to Mooch about this, his reply was "Yes, at under 75W or so per battery it's usually better to go with the 3000mAh 20A batteries like the VTC6, 30Q, and HG2. If chain vaping or above 75W per battery the VTC5A is a better choice.".

So it seems one of the 3000MAH cells like the 30Q are a better choice in this case over the VTC5A.
 
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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
I am at a loss what to say now. I don't know if you are playing around? Everything shows that in the application I have stated the 30Q or similar to be the ones to go for.
The reason why you don't know what to say now is because you don't understand the relationship between voltage sag and amps in a regulated mod, and how that relationship affects the runtime. The voltage sag is the difference between the resting voltage (the voltage that you get from the battery if no current is being drawn from the battery, after about a 30 second recovery period) and the voltage that the battery runs at (the voltage that you get from the battery whilst current is being drawn from the battery due to pressing and holding the fire button, until the button is finally released again). For a series dual 18650 regulated mod, the 120 watts argument is valid only if all you care about is the runtime, so... if you also care about other factors like how the voltage sag affects your regulated mod's vape performance when you chain vape on it, for example, then you might want to avoid this 120 watts general rule of thumb because it's not completely set in stone, and those few extra puffs of runtime might not be worth this decline in vape performance especially if you are going to carry a pair of spare batteries around with you anyway in the first place.
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
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Member For 5 Years
I spoke to Mooch about this, his reply was "Yes, at under 75W or so per battery it's usually better to go with the 3000mAh 20A batteries like the VTC6, 30Q, and HG2. If chain vaping or above 75W per battery the VTC5A is a better choice.".

So it seems one of the 3000MAH cells like the 30Q are a better choice in this case over the VTC5A.
This confirms what I have been trying to explain. The words "usually" and "chain vaping" are key, and I presume the 75 watts also translates to less than 75 watts after factoring in the efficiency of the mod.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I didn't know what to say as I didn't know if you was messing with me intentionally or not. I know exactly what voltage sag is. I know about the recovery period. I know the relationship between them in a regulated mod. I stated all along what the batteries were best for.
Why do you assume I do not understand these things?

Yes, 'usually' is key. Usually they ARE the best choice!

EDIT: Again: If you are using a mech, or want to run high wattage or all around use, get the VTC5A. If you want longer runtime and are not demanding as much, get the 30Q, HG2, or VTC6.

I will only reply with this to you from now on in regards to this thread- I have done enough to show what I am saying is valid.
 
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Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I didn't know what to say as I didn't know if you was messing with me intentionally or not. I know exactly what voltage sag is. I know about the recovery period. I know the relationship between them in a regulated mod. I stated all along what the batteries were best for.
Why do you assume I do not understand these things?

Yes, 'usually' is key. Usually they ARE the best choice!

EDIT: Again: If you are using a mech, or want to run high wattage or all around use, get the VTC5A. If you want longer runtime and are not demanding as much, get the 30Q, HG2, or VTC6.

I will only reply with this to you from now on in regards to this thread- I have done enough to show what I am saying is valid.
You stated all along what you think the batteries are best for, but you still failed to explain why you think that. You didn't state that's what the batteries USUALLY are best for if we can ASSUME people don't chain vape, and that this is why I am still correct when I say it simply depends. Mooch did say in the video it depends on how you use the battery. You are just being too stubborn to accept it. So from now on you can reply to me pretty much however you want, as I am not even going to bother reading your pedantic replies anymore. Have a nice day.
 

conanthewarrior

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Again: If you are using a mech, or want to run high wattage or all around use, get the VTC5A. If you want longer runtime and are not demanding as much, get the 30Q, HG2, or VTC6.

Also- I explained fully why I thought that, with evidence, you failed to do the same. I have always provided back ups to my views, even going as far to ask Mooch for his opinion, he also agreed the 30Q, HG2 or VTC6 is better in this case.

Some people can not admit when they are wrong, which is a shame, as they never will learn. I only ever give advice when I know it is correct, before that I like to learn- give it a try sometime.
And I'm the pedantic one lol? It was you that kept changing things to fit your own definition when it was shown the previous was wrong, and picking over things such at the VTC5A having a higher voltage under load- which still doesn't make it better for the use we was talking about.

I think I have done more than enough here, the back and forth is silly- if you thought black was white you would not change your view even with evidence. Ignore list.
 
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Vapin-Dave

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
I will likely pick up a couple VTC5As to have available should I be trying some lower resistance builds. And I suppose I could do my own general test to see which last longer. If the difference in the amount of run time or actual hits on the device isn't extreme it shouldn't be an issue. I mean if we're talking 10-15 pulls on the device that's not much difference really. I guess the main difference is the price at this point. But the price for only a couple batteries to have the option to use lower resistance builds would be worth it IMO.

Just out of curiosity what would most regulated mods do if the power rating was exceeded? Not that I would ever vape that high but let's just say I was using two HG2's at 200W. Would the batteries get warm? Would the mod just give an error and not fire? Would there be the possibility of the batteries venting?
 

Carambrda

Platinum Contributor
ECF Refugee
Member For 5 Years
I will likely pick up a couple VTC5As to have available should I be trying some lower resistance builds. And I suppose I could do my own general test to see which last longer. If the difference in the amount of run time or actual hits on the device isn't extreme it shouldn't be an issue. I mean if we're talking 10-15 pulls on the device that's not much difference really. I guess the main difference is the price at this point. But the price for only a couple batteries to have the option to use lower resistance builds would be worth it IMO.

Just out of curiosity what would most regulated mods do if the power rating was exceeded? Not that I would ever vape that high but let's just say I was using two HG2's at 200W. Would the batteries get warm? Would the mod just give an error and not fire? Would there be the possibility of the batteries venting?
Using two HG2s in series at 200 watts, the voltage sag would be ginormous so the mod probably wouldn't fire at all, but you would be taking a huge risk seriously injuring yourself, possibly even killing yourself so whatever you do don't try it. It would be possible to gradually lower the watts until it does fire, but by doing this you risk internally damaging the batteries, which poses a big safety hazard as well, and you also face the additional risk of the batteries to start venting because of overheating them. If the temperature of the batteries rises very fast whilst they overheat, this could result in thermal runaway, likely causing them to explode. So whatever you do don't try that either. Mooch's battery comparison charts have a separate column to list the MVA (Max Vaping Amps) rating of many different batteries. By exceeding the MVA value you take a big risk because if something goes wrong with the mod in such a way that the mod doesn't stop firing so that the mod is now draining the batteries continuously, you will have little to no time to take action and run away from the mod to save yourself from grave danger. It should however be noted there is always a risk of the batteries starting to vent. The MVA number is there to give you a useful indication of how many amps you can draw from the battery in question whilst vaping on it, if you want that little bit of extra time to still be able to put down the mod and flee from it.
 

nightshard

It's VG/PG not PG/VG
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Just out of curiosity what would most regulated mods do if the power rating was exceeded? Not that I would ever vape that high but let's just say I was using two HG2's at 200W. Would the batteries get warm? Would the mod just give an error and not fire? Would there be the possibility of the batteries venting?

The mod has no way of knowing the amp rating of the batteries used.
If you use your batteries well above their rating they will get hot and one of the following may happen.
- The voltage will collapse and the batteries will drain in seconds.
- The batteries will vent.
- The batteries will explode.
Some mods may notice the irregular voltage sag and prevent you from firing and others may not.
 

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