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Difficult Vendor?

KDodds

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As to two sides... well, like I said, I have all of the correspondence saved. There's really no more to the story, though. I ordered, the package is sitting in limbo since three days into shipping, I emailed them after about a week and a half into limbo politely asking what can be done about it. They told me the tried to call the hub, but that I should call my PO. I called my PO and mini-hub and let them know. They said they would request a "lost package tracking" and that I should go to my PO and report the loss/theft, which I have not had the time to do yet, but will do. I posted this thread at the beginning of the week and when I attempted to contact the vendor to update them, I discovered that they're blocking my email. End of story. There's no real drama here, just the facts as they are.

I won't name the vendor, sorry guys. People who do what they have recently done are the same kinds of people who like to make life difficult for others when things like this come up, in my experience anyway. I can say that I have never purchased anything from Volcano, though.

I won't share the tracking number, only I and the vendor need that information. It's been in limbo since 8/9, so hardly a week's wait at this point.
 

mgmrick

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As I stated..your beef is with usps not the vendor. If you don't want risk of shipping use b/m...and yes they do have to charge more...much higher over head costs..
 

KDodds

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As I stated..your beef is with usps not the vendor. If you don't want risk of shipping use b/m...and yes they do have to charge more...much higher over head costs..
As I said elsewhere in the thread, I fully agree that any "beef" is with USPS and that the loss of the package is their fault and no one else's. That isn't and wasn't my concern, who was to blame. My concern is and was how vendor treat their customers when things like this happen.

As I've also said, in four years, any time I've ever had a problem like this, the vendors have, in the interests of customer service, taken it upon themselves to take care of the situation to keep their customer happy. I guess what it comes down to is two different ideologies in business, the first being, as this vendor has displayed, "it's not my error, so I'm not going to try and fix it", and the second being, "oh, I'm sorry you need assistance, but let me help resolve this issue for you". Personally, in my business, I subscribe to the latter philosophy, and prefer to do business with others who do the same. I also can't fathom why someone would actively choose to deal with a vendor who subscribes to the former philosophy.
 

Deucesjack

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As I said elsewhere in the thread, I fully agree that any "beef" is with USPS and that the loss of the package is their fault and no one else's. That isn't and wasn't my concern, who was to blame. My concern is and was how vendor treat their customers when things like this happen.

As I've also said, in four years, any time I've ever had a problem like this, the vendors have, in the interests of customer service, taken it upon themselves to take care of the situation to keep their customer happy. I guess what it comes down to is two different ideologies in business, the first being, as this vendor has displayed, "it's not my error, so I'm not going to try and fix it", and the second being, "oh, I'm sorry you need assistance, but let me help resolve this issue for you". Personally, in my business, I subscribe to the latter philosophy, and prefer to do business with others who do the same. I also can't fathom why someone would actively choose to deal with a vendor who subscribes to the former philosophy.
Well said.

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mgmrick

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So how many man hours do you feel a vendor should spend on your ten dollar order? Your living in a fairly land expecting too much....keep this about usps and I might agree with you
 

Deucesjack

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So how many man hours do you feel a vendor should spend on your ten dollar order? Your living in a fairly land expecting too much....keep this about usps and I might agree with you
About 10 minutes. They should check and see if the package was indeed lost via the tracking. If this can be confirmed that the said package was not delivered they should make up another package and send it out to said customer. That's called customer service.

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KDodds

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So how many man hours do you feel a vendor should spend on your ten dollar order? Your living in a fairly land expecting too much....keep this about usps and I might agree with you
It would have taken the same amount of time for them to send a very different email after I first contacted them. It would have taken them less than five minutes to pack and ship a replacement. So, what, 1/10 of one man hour?

If you think I am expecting too much in actually receiving what I've paid for, and expect the vendor to offer excellent customer service, I can certainly respect that opinion while disagreeing with it utterly.
 

mgmrick

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You guys and gals have no idea what's involved running an online business...support you local b/m..
 

KDodds

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You guys and gals have no idea what's involved running an online business...support you local b/m..
Actually, I do. For a period of time I ran a business that involved live deliveries.
 

Deucesjack

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You guys and gals have no idea what's involved running an online business...support you local b/m..
Yeah you're right, I worked for a top 3 U.S. Bank for 25 years and for 15 of those 25 years I also owned a bar in NYC. Running a business is definitely out of my wheel house.

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mgmrick

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This thread is about usps has zero nada..nothing to do with any vendor...
 

KDodds

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This thread is about usps has zero nada..nothing to do with any vendor...
Just to reiterate, and make clear my intent for starting this thread. It has absolutely nothing to do with USPS.

We can, and probably do, all agree that USPS's customer service when not in face-to-face situations is abysmal. My local PO has some wonderful folks working there. They are on the ball, friendly, and very helpful whenever I've dealt with them (since the deliveryman left who was in charge of the dozens of disappeared Netflix dvds, anyway). But the faceless support from USPS is beyond lacking. As a for instance, I can not even file this complaint online because I apparently already have an account I don't have, so I need to open a new account, according to USPS, which they prevent me from doing because I already have an account, and so on.

I am sorry, we can agree to disagree about many things, but you can't tell me what my intent is, or to what I am referring, referencing, or speaking. This thread is, and remains, about customer service after a problem has been encountered, regardless of fault.
 

KDodds

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A vendor does don't block a good buyer...enough said
A good vendor wouldn't, I agree. But to classify a first time buyer as a "bad buyer" because their package was lost is quite a stretch of the imagination, and doesn't make for, what I would consider to be, a good vendor.
 

mgmrick

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Your not reading the email exchange...I stand by my statement..2 way street
 

KDodds

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Your not reading the email exchange...I stand by my statement..2 way street
I am the only one who has read the exchange. And most certainly you have not (unless you work for them) and therefore have absolutely no basis for making that statement.

Now, with no way to contact them, I am going to be forced to charge them back, as I have no way to know when the claim has been reimbursed or what they intend to do once it is. Heck, I can't even call them and give them the name of the person who handled the situation since no one signed the emails.
 

mgmrick

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I can certainly understand the vendor's predicament. I know they did nothing wrong in the transfer. And I know that USPS is solely to blame for the delay or complete loss

Your words..... give it a rest. Or better yet instead of posting here... reach out to the usps if 10 bucks is going to kill you.
You SHOULD NOT win a charge back and if you do we all as consumers bear the cost in higher prices
 

KDodds

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Have you read anything I've said? Or are you just responding from a pre-judged perspective? I also never said, "give it a rest", so I'm not sure to whom you are replying, but I'm the OP and I'll repeat:

The vendor is not at fault for the lost package. They are at fault for taking a customer service stance that, because it is not their fault, it is not up to them to complete the contract.

And here's were you might be a little ill-informed. If I pay for goods and those goods are never delivered, the vendor has defaulted on their obligation in the implied contract. This is why these charge backs virtually always are successful. Most good and knowledgeable vendors already know this. And they know they will (eventually) be compensated for their loss through the shipping entity's insurance (first class and priority mail still have implied insurance up to $150 last I checked). This is very simple and straightforward, as part of the standard UCC law, it is the seller's obligation to transfer ownership and deliver the goods to the buyer. No disclaimer can void this basic legal premise as far as I have been made aware. That they have employed a third party entity to do so, and that that third party has failed to live up to their obligations has absolutely nothing to do with the buyer. It rests on their shoulders to deliver the paid for goods. And again, this is why these types of charge backs are almost always non-issues. I think, with respect to vendors, it takes a special kind of person to decline to acknowledge all of the above and simply replace the goods. Which is why I will never do business with them again.
 

mgmrick

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So what's your opinion? Am I overreacting? Should I give them a break? This isn't a fly-by-nighter, either, it's a fairly well known shop and etailer out of Hawai'i.

yeh overreacting .... don't ask if you don't want an answer..... great play on words.... " I won't name the vendor" We are all not stupid we know who you are trying to bash
 

Rabbit Slayer

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It isn't the vendor's fault but it is their responsibility to ensure delivery

email them again asking them to fix the problem or you will be forced call your bank and dispute the charges
 

Deucesjack

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It isn't the vendor's fault but it is their responsibility to ensure delivery

email them again asking them to fix the problem or you will be forced call your bank and dispute the charges
Lol, he can't they blocked him.

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mgmrick

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No it's not vendors responsibilty to ensure delivery.... It's their responsibility to hand it off to the shipper..... they have done that.

Now he claims ( probably right) that he can't email them as they blocked him. Now why would they do that? I could guess but will not....
 

KDodds

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So what's your opinion? Am I overreacting? Should I give them a break? This isn't a fly-by-nighter, either, it's a fairly well known shop and etailer out of Hawai'i.

yeh overreacting .... don't ask if you don't want an answer..... great play on words.... " I won't name the vendor" We are all not stupid we know who you are trying to bash
What makes you think I don't want honest answers? Frankly, I did not lose all respect for this vendor until after almost a week of no contact, I tried to update them only to find that my email has been blocked. And seriously, I was very nice and polite, same as I am being here. Judging from that action, my initial post was hardly an overreaction to their hand washing the situation away.

I'm no bashing anyone, there's no emotional turmoil here. I am simply presenting facts in such a way that others can benefit from my experience without me having to put in print the name of a vendor I don't trust to take the report in stride. I think their actions have proven this the prudent course.
 

KDodds

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No it's not vendors responsibilty to ensure delivery.... It's their responsibility to hand it off to the shipper..... they have done that.

Now he claims ( probably right) that he can't email them as they blocked him. Now why would they do that? I could guess but will not....
Actually, you're wrong, and I've already explained why. Look up Seller Obligations under UCC law.
 

mgmrick

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Here's what I get out of this.....

A vendor promptly sent out your 10 dollar order and then usps lost it...... sounds like a good vendor I would buy from
 

KDodds

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My first email to them:

Greetings,
I don't know if there is anything that you can do about this, but I still have not received this order. It has been showing as "left <location removed>" for 10 days now. This is not a normal happenstance and I've received many order from other vendors that were placed after this, including orders from China.


I was advised to call my PO, which I did, and also the mini-hub that they sometimes route through. I was told by both that they had the same information I had.

This is the second email:

Hi,

I have spoken to my local post offices in <location removed> and the mini-hub in <location removed>. Neither post office has any further information about the package. What do we do now?


To this, their cursory response was, basically, "file a claim".

That was when I started this thread, because the red flags were going up, and I have had no contact with them since. I did not discover that they had blocked my email until yesterday when I tried to contact them to update them on the state of the order, which I would have done regardless of the state, including if it was received.

So please, @mgmrick, in the interests of full disclosure, let me know exactly at what point I became the "bad customer" that you allude to me being, deserving of being blocked from contact and left to my own devices.
 

KDodds

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Here's what I get out of this.....

A vendor promptly sent out your 10 dollar order and then usps lost it...... sounds like a good vendor I would buy from
How do you know how promptly it was sent, if I might ask?
 

mgmrick

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This the internet... I don't know you and you don't me.... what is both sides of the story? No need to explain further.

My postion is the vendor did everything right on their end as you have stated. Your asking too much of a vendors working on a small profit margin. This is an issue with usps.... hey sometimes it happens ...thankfully rarely.

It's 10 bucks or so. Your making way to big of a deal out of this. Was that not your orginal question?

It's just a vendor of 1000's they are not your/our buddies per say... just regualr people like you and me trying to feed their family
 

KDodds

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This the internet... I don't know you and you don't me.... what is both sides of the story? No need to explain further.

My postion is the vendor did everything right on their end as you have stated. Your asking too much of a vendors working on a small profit margin. This is an issue with usps.... hey sometimes it happens ...thankfully rarely.

It's 10 bucks or so. Your making way to big of a deal out of this. Was that not your orginal question?

It's just a vendor of 1000's they are not your/our buddies per say... just regualr people like you and me trying to feed their family
Right. I've shared everything but their responses, which is really not pertinent to your opinion, given the information provided alone, as to why I should be blocked and left hanging.

Unfortunately, I am aware of vendors' margins, as are most people on this board, and it is a fact that, as a reseller, vaping is a prime industry. So much so that I myself have considered investing, but I just don't have the time.

Actually, my original question was not directed to the effect that "should I be pissed", but more towards "should I expect this vendor to stand behind their sale". I thought that was evident. I could not care less about $14.

People trying to feed their families, which take time to grow, should be in a stable situation for the long haul. That means keeping your existing customer base, and gaining new customers.

I don't need to be friends with William at MaddCatt who supplies most of my choice for him to quickly replace a missing or mislabeled or just plain funny tasting batch. Why? Because William knows how to handle his customers. Same with Craig at Scope. On my very first order I asked if he would be open to making a Lime Cola. Just asked, mind you. And in my order, guess what? A free sample of Lime Cola. Which is now, along with William's Choc de Menthe, my co-ADV. Or how about the guys at VaporFlask? I just bought a Stout and was having some issues. I contacted them, provided them with the receipt, and instead of telling me to return it to the retailer, in less than 24 hours, they sent me an RMA and prepaid shipping label to return the device TO THEM, for a tested replacement. Or maybe MVS (pretty sure it was them it was about three years ago) is a better example when they sent me the wrong device. Their response, keep it, yours will go out Monday. Or Insane, with whom I'd only had one prior order. With my first (smallish) repeat order, the juice came labelled wrong (maybe) or they sent the wrong nic level. Again, no problem, keep it, we'll send it out again tomorrow. Or even Hope, way back when, when my Choco Mocha Razzle came in tasting funky and too high in the coffee, here you go, sorry about that. You see, the kind of service that I would expect to get is the standard of the industry's most reputable vendors, and that standard is just not there at this particular vendor.
 

Nailz

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I've got no dog in this fight, but if you think it is alright for a vendor to just say 'hey we got your money, but fuck u' when you don't receive your goods, then you aren't a normal person, doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5000, you paid your money, it up to the vendor to get you your goods, if lost then they should resend and they take up the issue with the USPS, not the buyer.
 

Deucesjack

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I've got no dog in this fight, but if you think it is alright for a vendor to just say 'hey we got your money, but fuck u' when you don't receive your goods, then you aren't a normal person, doesn't matter if it is $5 or $5000, you paid your money, it up to the vendor to get you your goods, if lost then they should resend and they take up the issue with the USPS, not the buyer.
Exactly right. I stopped arguing and followed the advice of the famous Mark Twain quote.

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Rabbit Slayer

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No it's not vendors responsibilty to ensure delivery.... It's their responsibility to hand it off to the shipper..... they have done that.

Now he claims ( probably right) that he can't email them as they blocked him. Now why would they do that? I could guess but will not....

Imo the sale is not final until the item is delivered....You are paying for shipping and handling...well they shipped it but they didn't handle the situation very well when a problem arose
 

freemind

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Here is the deal, really. It's about personal responsibility.
The buyer did his part by:
1 Paying for his goods
2 Informing the seller he has not received his goods, and they are lost in shipping according to the SELLER'S shipper.
It is the seller's responsibility to ensure:
1 The buyer gets exactly what he paid for
2 That the items come correct, and in the expected condition, under the fair amount of time.

The seller is the one that chooses what method of delivery a buyer may choose. So, if the seller chooses to use a pigeon to deliver goods, and they don't get delivered, then that is the seller and the pigeon's problem. Not the buyer.

Edit to add:

All the credit card companies agree about this too. And you know what, even the sellers agree to this under the user agreement with the CC companies. Maybe the sellers should be reading the fine print in the TOU. I had to with my credit card processor.
 

KDodds

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Yeah, I said above, this is UCC regulation at its basest level. I have no doubt I will be reimbursed, eventually. The problem is, good, heck, even barely passable, customer service does not rely on "eventually". And, FWIW, I tried again, my e-mail is definitely blocked, something that, imo, should be unheard of in the customer service aspects of any business.
 

KDodds

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Well, this is interesting. I just received an email, signed this time, from the vendor in question letting me know that they will be reshipping the drip tips, and apologizing for any inconvenience. I thanked him and asked if he knew why my emails were being bounced back. He said they can't and didn't block me and to make sure I was sending to the correct email address. I let them know to whom I was replying (impossible to get the email wrong by clicking reply) and thanked them again for their help and service.
 

freemind

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I can block emails, and I can even block phone calls/text messages. That's a load if they say they can't. Must be mgmrick thought he would get more support, but realized he was gonna lose the case. LOL.

Whatever. You should be getting your stuff, and the vendor revealed how shitty a vendor they are. I don't forget stuff like that.
 

KDodds

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I can block emails, and I can even block phone calls/text messages. That's a load if they say they can't. Must be mgmrick thought he would get more support, but realized he was gonna lose the case. LOL.

Whatever. You should be getting your stuff, and the vendor revealed how shitty a vendor they are. I don't forget stuff like that.
Dunno what or how or why they decided to contact me and send out new. You're right, whatever. You can't erase experience, not with me anyway. I'll probably just for ecig.com to get the VT133's back in stock. Still looking on the Efusion Duo, might wait until it comes down a little in price.
 

mgmrick

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mgm has nothing to do with vendor or any ecig vendor.... and still think the vendor has done nothing wrong....
 

Deucesjack

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mgm has nothing to do with vendor or any ecig vendor.... and still think the vendor has done nothing wrong....
Bro you are absolutely, unequivocally, positively wrong! Now your bordering on just being a troll. Give it up man.

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Jimi D

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mgm has nothing to do with vendor or any ecig vendor.... and still think the vendor has done nothing wrong....
Right ! If you don't like the terms and conditions. Don't order online.
 
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KDodds

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Meh at this point guys. The vendor will not be getting repeat business from me. Just got the VT133 from a recommended vendor at 20% off. Black was $88, shipped. Silver will be less.
 

mgmrick

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Bro you are absolutely, unequivocally, positively wrong! Now your bordering on just being a troll. Give it up man.

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Agree to disagree....

I could show you online website after website that states once it goes to shipper it's out of sellers hands they have done their duty.....sorry those are just facts
 

KDodds

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Agree to disagree....

I could show you online website after website that states once it goes to shipper it's out of sellers hands they have done their duty.....sorry those are just facts
You're missing the very important fact that they can say whatever they want in their disclaimers. They still must abide by UCC which imparts the responsibility of delivering the goods on the seller, not the buyer. Any agreement of any form that contradicts this is not legally binding and any vendor with any business knowledge and sense already knows this.
 

Deucesjack

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You're missing the very important fact that they can say whatever they want in their disclaimers. They still must abide by UCC which imparts the responsibility of delivering the goods on the seller, not the buyer. Any agreement of any form that contradicts this is not legally binding and any vendor with any business knowledge and sense already knows this.
This! Checkmate. Game over.

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KDodds

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This! Checkmate. Game over.

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Very early on in my vaping I bought a yellow Vivi Nova off of a dubious site. Long story short, after two missing shipments he "sent without tracking numbers", I charged him back. Apparently he had also done this to others. His web site went down shortly after these charge backs. Long story short, an informed consumer is the biggest a-hole in the eyes of a bad vendor. I couldn't care less about what a bad vendor, or those that support them, think of me.

It is your right, under the law, as the buyer, to receive the goods for which you have paid and it is exclusively the seller's responsibility to ensure that that happens. That's the short, plain, and simple fact.

This is why I never pay for "insurance". It benefits me not in the least. Virtually all packages shipped are insured by default anyway due to shipping method. When you pay for "insurance" you're paying the vendor, not the shipping entity, for orders under that $150 (or whatever it is now) mark.

Now the vendor in this thread may be a bad vendor, but they also may be a very good vendor who just made a series of isolated bad decisions. Either way, I'll never find out for myself.
 

freemind

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Agree to disagree....

I could show you online website after website that states once it goes to shipper it's out of sellers hands they have done their duty.....sorry those are just facts
Lots of people try to pull the same shenanigans. Look at fleabay. A seller can't make terms of sale (legally binding) that break the rules of ebay sales.

So yeah, you swing and miss.
 

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