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Tight-Draw/Low-Wattage/M2L Vapers Unite!

AndriaD

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So, here's the thread that I mentioned in the ECF Refugees that we really need -- I know I'm not the only one who is decidedly not into 'cloudz bro', but does want a great vape with rich flavor.

This type of vaper is called a "Tootle Puffer" over at ECF, but this is not ECF, thank all that's holy. :D I know a lot of folks really disliked that term, so I thought I'd stick with just a general description, which is really just a more-conservative style of vaping: some of us can't handle a lot of vapor because our lungs are too compromised from decades of smoking; some of us live with non-vapers who definitely don't want their homes fogged up; some of us may have the need to "stealth vape," at work or wherever, where lower wattage and higher PG produces clouds that are a lot sneakier. ;) Or perhaps we prefer conservative vaping economically, because it doesn't go thru liters of ejuice like there's no tomorrow.

I fall into a lot of those categories: asthma, so high-VG, high heat, and massive vapor is right out of the question; husband who waves away my little PG wisps like the worst ANTZ you ever saw; and really cheap and tight-fisted, who prefers to use as little ejuice as I possibly can.

I also prefer the extremely tight draw that I was used to with cigarettes, the mouth-to-lung style of inhale; doing it any other way will never feel right to me. Cartos were great, but once I got used to Achilles RDAs, there was no going back even to Kayfuns, nevermind cartos; I'm too spoiled with rich flavor.

Some of us may prefer purchasing coils, for whatever reason, though that alternative may be going the way of the dinosaur, thx to the FDA. I started building coils strictly for economic reasons: it's a hell of a lot cheaper to buy wire and cotton, even expensive organic cotton pads, than buying pre-made coils, and self-built coils provide a lot more room for customization of the vape -- a real issue nowadays with all this sub-ohm crap that's available.

If you're a tight-draw/low-wattage/M2L conservative vaper, please join in! If you're a full-time cloud chaser... we really don't need to know how lame you think we are -- we vape this way because we like it.

Any info about vape hardware particularly well-suited to this style of vaping is VERY welcome! It's getting harder and harder to find!

Andria
 

Artemis

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Mouth to lung/lately cigar vape style. 21 watts is my highest. I hate clouds/just need flavor and a touch of nic. I need to build coils but haven't found the right tank to build on. I do have some RA type issues so I need a big area to build. In the meantime I use simple nautilus tanks and trition 2 mini clapton and regular nautilus coils. I like it simple.

I just bought myself a Plato on sale and a nautilus x. Origin vapes had a killer sale. I haven't purchased a vape/mod for myself in a few years.
 

JuicyLucy

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Mouth to lung/lately cigar vape style. 21 watts is my highest. I hate clouds/just need flavor and a touch of nic. I need to build coils but haven't found the right tank to build on. I do have some RA type issues so I need a big area to build. In the meantime I use simple nautilus tanks and trition 2 mini clapton and regular nautilus coils. I like it simple.

I just bought myself a Plato on sale and a nautilus x. Origin vapes had a killer sale. I haven't purchased a vape/mod for myself in a few years.

I find too much vapor annoying also. My husband hates it, and he still smokes!
 

latinouno

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I vape both ways, enjoy both. I've been looking for a MTL tank for some time to replace a 2 year old tank, only because of the platic tank and prefer glass, and tanks that I've tried just seams to airy.
This if my MTL tank:
IMG_20160519_221812.jpg
 
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AndriaD

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Mouth to lung/lately cigar vape style. 21 watts is my highest. I hate clouds/just need flavor and a touch of nic. I need to build coils but haven't found the right tank to build on. I do have some RA type issues so I need a big area to build. In the meantime I use simple nautilus tanks and trition 2 mini clapton and regular nautilus coils. I like it simple.

I just bought myself a Plato on sale and a nautilus x. Origin vapes had a killer sale. I haven't purchased a vape/mod for myself in a few years.

That "cigar style" really is useful; thx to my asthma, I never did inhale my cigarettes very deeply, but sometimes if it was being really troublesome, even the shallow inhales I did normally would set me off; with vaping, it's possible to do NO inhale, and still get a fair amount of satisfaction! There are times when I'm really grateful for that!

Andria
 

Rabbit Slayer

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KKen

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After getting my first authentic Kayfun lite plus, I found it hard to go back to DL setups so continued on with looking for atomizers that could produce really good flavor. Vapor production will always come with a good system, so that was never a criteria for a new atty. Eventually, I got into genisis atomizers and have never looked back. I ended up upping my nic from 3-6mg to 12mg, but a 30ml bottle I used to vape through in 2-3 days in the past takes me about a month now.

Gennies do really well with tobacco based or fruit flavors, but if you like your bakery and cremes, I think cotton wicked atomizers are much better suited.

My setup of choice is an Anatolian 18500 mech with a LeZephyr @ .85ohms vaping either with Blacknote or Vaponaute e-liquids. ;)



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Wanda

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Grate thread! I was just looking through old post today to get some info on this subject its just what i needed. been looking at different reviews on rta rda and all the rest i would love to start building soon but being so new its a bit overwhelming with all the choices out there will pop back soon :)
 

celticluvr

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I ran into a gold mine when i bought my coolfire 4 plus with iSub Apex. The Apex can use a 2.0 ohm coil that is super tight, tighter than my little Aspire ET-S. I love the M2L draw i get from it. And it also gives me a good little cloud ;) . I mean I do use the .5 coils but this isn't the place. ;) But for my higher nic juices The 2 ohm does beautifully. I guess I will have to get a lower vg for it though as I burnt my only 2 ohm coil. :gaah::(
 

Wanda

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Been Googleing these cool set ups like mad, some look a bit to teco for me tho and cant seam to find some of them here in aus but have come a cross a couple would like your vew on. Any one used a serpent mini rta watched a few youtube clips and seams super simple to use
 

AndriaD

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I ran into a gold mine when i bought my coolfire 4 plus with iSub Apex. The Apex can use a 2.0 ohm coil that is super tight, tighter than my little Aspire ET-S. I love the M2L draw i get from it. And it also gives me a good little cloud ;) . I mean I do use the .5 coils but this isn't the place. ;) But for my higher nic juices The 2 ohm does beautifully. I guess I will have to get a lower vg for it though as I burnt my only 2 ohm coil. :gaah::(

That iSub Apex sounds good, celtic... I think I saw your initial review of it when you first got it, and it's encouraging to know you still like it; I might have to try one of those -- my coils always come out somewhere above 2Ω, usually about 2.1-2.2 (9 wraps around 3/32). But only if I could build my own coils for it; if it absolutely requires buying pre-made coils... nah. That would be a big back-step, and with all this FDA crap... not a good idea.

When all this FDA crap hit the fan I convinced my husband that I really did need to pony up nearly $100 for the authentic Achilles 2, but it's a bit disappointing, TBH. They made the airhole under the coil a lot bigger, so even though you can adjust how open you want the outside hole to be, it's still too airy; I also don't like the AFC ring, because it's a very large pain in the ass to adjust, and keep it set properly, when you're taking off or putting the atty on the mod; I far prefer the hex-key adjustment underneath, like a kayfun's, just set it and forget it. The best news about it is that the threads from the old Achilles (of which I have 2) and the Achilles 2 do match, so I'm able to use one of my old bases with the new shorter tank ring and top cap, and still get the tight draw I want.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Been Googleing these cool set ups like mad, some look a bit to teco for me tho and cant seam to find some of them here in aus but have come a cross a couple would like your vew on. Any one used a serpent mini rta watched a few youtube clips and seams super simple to use

Haven't ever tried that one, Wanda... with that huge air slot, it looks to me like it would be WAYYYYYYYYYY too airy. I usually like an airhole that's about 1 to 2 mm, tops. When I say I prefer "tight draw," I ain't just whistling dixie. :D I want to feel some resistance to my pucker, when I take a draw, like a cigarette or a carto.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Blister packer here. Prefer not to rebuild but have the gear to to that.

You gotta wonder... if the FDA gets their way with the regs and they stand... are any coils going to be available after Aug 8?

Andria
 

Whiskey

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I vape both ways, enjoy both. I've been looking for a MTL tank for some time to replace a 2 year old tank, only because of the platic tank and prefer glass, and tanks that I've tried just seams to airy.
This if my MTL tank:
View attachment 52673
MTL vaper here too:) All mine have the Eleaf GS tanks with the 1.5 coils , I vape at about 11 watts
thumbnail_IMG_20160420_0811262811_zpsywajxbir.jpg
 

Whiskey

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You gotta wonder... if the FDA gets their way with the regs and they stand... are any coils going to be available after Aug 8?

Andria
Been stocking up on the coils, have a ton of the old school Kanger coils and tanks if I get desperate
 

Wanda

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Thanks for that tip might not waste my money on that one then. was thinking might give KT topbox mini starter kit a go in a few weeks they seem easy to use and super easy to build on (watched about 10 youtube clips) wish they where a bit smaller but i thourght i can still use my evods when i go out .will keep looking tho if i find anything interesting will post it up
 

Wanda

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Been stocking up on the coils, have a ton of the old school Kanger coils and tanks if I get desperate

Ive got to do this as well and find rbt's. The lovely govenment over here from what i gather, is pushing for a total ban on everything e cigarettes which will be a grate shame for the companys over eastern states (its allready illegal here in wa) and there trying to get it pushed through by the end of next month
 

Nailz

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I am a MTL vapor only, just don't like the flavor or experience from direct lung.

Been hooked on the kayfun mini v3's (clones) till the Merlin came out, now they have replace the KF's, really easy to build, great flavor and easy to fill up, running clapton coils coming out at 1.6ohms and vaping at 16 watts.

I use a TFV4 mini at work, and use the blister pack 1.8ohm clapton coils with it, these take a bit more power (23 watts), but not bad flavor and I prefer to use premade coils at work, so can carry spares with me.
 

Wanda

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Im sold on those kayfun mini, just watched a few clips super easy to build,topfill airflow and juice ajustment and only $13 at fasttech might have to get a couple and give them a try
 

celticluvr

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That iSub Apex sounds good, celtic... I think I saw your initial review of it when you first got it, and it's encouraging to know you still like it; I might have to try one of those -- my coils always come out somewhere above 2Ω, usually about 2.1-2.2 (9 wraps around 3/32). But only if I could build my own coils for it; if it absolutely requires buying pre-made coils... nah. That would be a big back-step, and with all this FDA crap... not a good idea.

When all this FDA crap hit the fan I convinced my husband that I really did need to pony up nearly $100 for the authentic Achilles 2, but it's a bit disappointing, TBH. They made the airhole under the coil a lot bigger, so even though you can adjust how open you want the outside hole to be, it's still too airy; I also don't like the AFC ring, because it's a very large pain in the ass to adjust, and keep it set properly, when you're taking off or putting the atty on the mod; I far prefer the hex-key adjustment underneath, like a kayfun's, just set it and forget it. The best news about it is that the threads from the old Achilles (of which I have 2) and the Achilles 2 do match, so I'm able to use one of my old bases with the new shorter tank ring and top cap, and still get the tight draw I want.

Andria
They sell a rebuildable coil kit for it.. so yes you can build your own coils for it. I think Innokin thought of everything. There are coils for almost every type of vaper. I think all they're missing is stuff for drippers, although I could be wrong as I don't drip.
 

AndriaD

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They sell a rebuildable coil kit for it.. so yes you can build your own coils for it. I think Innokin thought of everything. There are coils for almost every type of vaper. I think all they're missing is stuff for drippers, although I could be wrong as I don't drip.

Cool. :)

I think they do have an RDA, but it's one of those "huffer" types, not a tight-draw tootle at all. After buying several RDAs that didn't suit me AT ALL and PIFing them away, I'm a lot pickier now on buying them in the first place. If the internal airhole is bigger than about 1.5mm, it's too airy for me, nevermind how much the external airhole may be close-able. There are a couple with 2mm internal airholes I can tolerate -- Magma, and the new Achilles 2 -- but I really don't prefer them. I was delighted to find that the new Achilles 2 tank ring fits the threads on the original Achilles bases, so I get the shorter tank and cap, with the tight draw I require. :)

Andria
 

Artemis

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I am a MTL vapor only, just don't like the flavor or experience from direct lung.

Been hooked on the kayfun mini v3's (clones) till the Merlin came out, now they have replace the KF's, really easy to build, great flavor and easy to fill up, running clapton coils coming out at 1.6ohms and vaping at 16 watts.

I use a TFV4 mini at work, and use the blister pack 1.8ohm clapton coils with it, these take a bit more power (23 watts), but not bad flavor and I prefer to use premade coils at work, so can carry spares with me.
Where can I buy a Merlin and is the quality really good? I need something easy to build. 1.5 ohm coils and above. I tried a kafun in the past and hated it. I have a few crappy rbas and shelved them.
 

jmlarsen

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Great thread. I too am a MTL - MVP 2 with nautilus mini. I use the Iclear 16 tanks that came with the MVP on my Evod. Just purchased "old school" Evod VV as I like to dial it down in the morning as I find it too harsh and dial up as the day goes (depending on my boss...).
Since I like to vary the flavours throughout the day I pack around 4/5 nauti's. The MVP is kinda bulky to carry around all day (even when there is 4 of them) hence the new Evod which should slip into my vest pocket very nicely.... then I am just packing tanks which fit into a makeup case nicely (I keep them upright by using a 35mm film canister....

All. You folks have a great day.....and keep on vaping....
 

AndriaD

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Where can I buy a Merlin and is the quality really good? I need something easy to build. 1.5 ohm coils and above. I tried a kafun in the past and hated it. I have a few crappy rbas and shelved them.

I think Augvape makes pretty darn good quality; I was PIFed an Alleria, and though it's really not flavorful enough for me (too spoiled with the Achilles!), the quality is excellent; it's a nice tank. Eciggity has the Merlin, $29.99, which seems to be the price pretty much everywhere -- even FT! I've bought from Eciggity before, and was very satisfied.

What did you dislike about Kayfuns, and which model did you try? I was totally in love with the "kayfun lite plus" model... until I got so spoiled with the Achilles that tanks just don't do it for me anymore.

Andria
 

Artemis

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I think Augvape makes pretty darn good quality; I was PIFed an Alleria, and though it's really not flavorful enough for me (too spoiled with the Achilles!), the quality is excellent; it's a nice tank. Eciggity has the Merlin, $29.99, which seems to be the price pretty much everywhere -- even FT! I've bought from Eciggity before, and was very satisfied.

What did you dislike about Kayfuns, and which model did you try? I was totally in love with the "kayfun lite plus" model... until I got so spoiled with the Achilles that tanks just don't do it for me anymore.

Andria
This was a few years ago. I rehomed it but I'm thinking it was a lite. It was plastic so I wasn't impressed. I was silica rope at the time. I do have some building stuff 28 guage wire/Jap cotton. I have RA signs/symptoms (autoimmune liver disease) so I have some really bad days lately with just trying to pull a tank apart. I do want to be self sufficient if a impending end of the world type vape apocalypse comes to terms.
 

Nailz

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Got my Merlins from subtank supply, and so far they have been very good, will they be good for you? That I can not answer, but there is a thread on the Merlin already, so maybe check that out and can find more info about it :)
 

AndriaD

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This was a few years ago. I rehomed it but I'm thinking it was a lite. It was plastic so I wasn't impressed. I was silica rope at the time. I do have some building stuff 28 guage wire/Jap cotton. I have RA signs/symptoms (autoimmune liver disease) so I have some really bad days lately with just trying to pull a tank apart. I do want to be self sufficient if a impending end of the world type vape apocalypse comes to terms.

I actually preferred plastic tanks; much lighter than glass and less fragile, and I don't vape anything that bothers plastic. Now that I'm used to the Achilles' titanium, I like glass even less, it's so heavy, and fragile.

I've heard that RA is a real bitch. I don't have anything like that, but I've already had a few osteoarthritis bouts with my hands, and it can be REALLY painful. Seems to run in my family; my grandmother had it severely.

I prefer wrapping wire around screws, than trying to get two leads thru two holes at the same time -- I'm extremely uncoordinated! But in your case, the leads-thru-holes might be a lot easier than wrapping wire around screws.

Andria
 

BulletStopper

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I started my RTA journey using the KFL lite +. Loved it, except the fill.

Bounced around a bit and am currently using a Merlin, 1.6 ohms at 16.5 watts.

No desire to direct lung. I've tried and never felt a benefit. I like my juice and battery life.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

AndriaD

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AndriaD

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I started my RTA journey using the KFL lite +. Loved it, except the fill.

Bounced around a bit and am currently using a Merlin, 1.6 ohms at 16.5 watts.

No desire to direct lung. I've tried and never felt a benefit. I like my juice and battery life.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Sometimes when I've been trying out RDAs that are too airy for me, I gave it a direct-lung hit just because there seemed no other way to get something out of it... and just about died coughing. Asthma doesn't like direct lung hits. :D

Andria
 

Wanda

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Hoooo! Just checked out ubertoot that is cool ,so gettig one of those put on my wish list so i dont lose it
 

darkangel07760

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I am in! Right now I have been vaping on an InnokinT18 and I have been loving the flavor. Really impressed with this little guy. How is the flavor on an Ego One? Would love some feedback!
 

Flavor Alchemist

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MTL Vaper.........Goblin Mini, LemoDrop, and the latest pickup.....Merlin.....diggin the people sharing their coil ohms and vape wattages for the Merlin.....Will be loadin' that up this weekend.........after giving it a good clean........Andria.....nice thread.............. :)
 

AndriaD

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I think at some point (before aug 8!), I need to get a Merlin; keep seeing a lot of M2L'ers talking about how great it is. Really tight draw?

Andria
 

c flakes

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I think at some point (before aug 8!), I need to get a Merlin; keep seeing a lot of M2L'ers talking about how great it is. Really tight draw?


I don't think it is a tight draw. I have one on the way. I will either like it or not. I like a tight draw as well and the only rebuildable I like is the KFV4
 

Zamazam

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Mouth to lung/lately cigar vape style. 21 watts is my highest. I hate clouds/just need flavor and a touch of nic. I need to build coils but haven't found the right tank to build on. I do have some RA type issues so I need a big area to build. In the meantime I use simple nautilus tanks and trition 2 mini clapton and regular nautilus coils. I like it simple.

I just bought myself a Plato on sale and a nautilus x. Origin vapes had a killer sale. I haven't purchased a vape/mod for myself in a few years.
If you want a really simple MTL tank to build on, get a Squape/R. I have an authentic. It is really, really simple to put a coil in and the flavor is top notch. I'm vaping mine now at 18 watts with a 1.5 Ohm 2.5mm id coil. Luv's me some Belgian Cocoa!
 

JuicyLucy

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I think at some point (before aug 8!), I need to get a Merlin; keep seeing a lot of M2L'ers talking about how great it is. Really tight draw?

Andria

I think the Alleria is a tighter than the Merlin - IME

But the Merlin easier to build and vapes like I wish the old Kayfun clones would
 

JuicyLucy

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I take that back. I have the alleria and the merlin side by side on identical 60W Isticks. Both at 1.1 ohms. The Merlin can be choked down to about half of the tightest draw on the Alleria. Hmm, good thing I actually checked.

That is using the stock drip tips on both, which I don't really like the wide bores on either of them.

Might draw significantly different with narrower DTs
 

AndriaD

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I take that back. I have the alleria and the merlin side by side on identical 60W Isticks. Both at 1.1 ohms. The Merlin can be choked down to about half of the tightest draw on the Alleria. Hmm, good thing I actually checked.

That is using the stock drip tips on both, which I don't really like the wide bores on either of them.

Might draw significantly different with narrower DTs

I might like the Merlin, then... the Alleria is *close* but still feels like I just can't get any resistance in the draw, even with one of my regular Ming driptips... like an empty straw (which I've tried more than once, in my previous attempts to quit smoking -- at one point I even taped a cigarette filter to the stupid straw, which was a little better, but the whole lack of taste just killed it).

How does the Merlin compare to the Alleria on flavor? I find the Alleria a bit lacking, compared to the Achilles. I may be stuck with just using the Achilles forever or until I decide I'm finally done with vaping; nothing else I've tried comes anywhere near it, for flavor. (except the Magma.. which leaks like a sieve and is a little too airy, but the flavor is definitely there).

Andria
 

JuicyLucy

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In my builds, the Alleria is much stronger flavored.

I was a little surprised you thought the Alleria was weak in the flavor dept - I had to dilute the juice by half to tolerate it the taste it was put out so much. But I'v been vaping a little lower ohms than you lately. I was at 1.5-1.8 for a long, long time.
 

AndriaD

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In my builds, the Alleria is much stronger flavored.

I was a little surprised you thought the Alleria was weak in the flavor dept - I had to dilute the juice by half to tolerate it the taste it was put out so much. But I'v been vaping a little lower ohms than you lately. I was at 1.5-1.8 for a long, long time.

The Achilles would probably knock you over. :D When I first got it, I'd been vaping kayfuns for about a year; at 10w, about 1.6Ω, 10mg.... I *immediately* had to go to 9w and 9mg, the TH was so intense, the flavor so strong and saturated. I only went to the +2 ohm coils when I got the iPV Mini, thinking it wouldn't step down. Then I discovered how to put it into PWM mode, but I stayed with the higher resistance coils because the battery life was quite perceptibly improved -- even with the Samsung 25Rs, I got a full day plus, instead of just about a day... now with the HE2s, 2 full days.

Andria
 

JuicyLucy

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The Achilles would probably knock you over. :D When I first got it, I'd been vaping kayfuns for about a year; at 10w, about 1.6Ω, 10mg.... I *immediately* had to go to 9w and 9mg, the TH was so intense, the flavor so strong and saturated. I only went to the +2 ohm coils when I got the iPV Mini, thinking it wouldn't step down. Then I discovered how to put it into PWM mode, but I stayed with the higher resistance coils because the battery life was quite perceptibly improved -- even with the Samsung 25Rs, I got a full day plus, instead of just about a day... now with the HE2s, 2 full days.

Andria

I'm too lazy to drip on a regular basis :D
 

Flavor Alchemist

Member For 4 Years
Upon testing the drawl on the Merlin, it is there...... and I am sure that it will be an excellent MTL tank.......however, it is a tad loose in the drawl dept.....But that, I believe can be remedied.....I will explain......Under the coil there is an air flow control screw which has a 2.5 mm hole in it.....What I will be doing is getting a couple of screws of the same size and length, and then drill a hole through it at 2 mm, then another one at 1.5 mm..... and experiment with them.......This will choke air flow from the internal part of the atty.......The Merlin does also have an air flow ring on the outside of the tank as well, but it doesn't tighten the drawl up quite enough.....Here is an experiment for you to try @JuicyLucy ..... Take a vape band and put it over the air flow slots on the Merlin......Cover them up completely and play with the adjustments......both directions.......You may be surprised at what you discover, and it is kinda mind blowing...... :) I would love to hear your thoughts.............So with a few workarounds that I have in mind, the Merlin will be a hassle free atty which will have a tight drawl, and with the anticipated performance that people are talking about........
 

BulletStopper

Member For 4 Years
I've found the Merlin very similar to a KFL, if I close the AFC all the way. I generally use mine with approximately 1 mm of the airflow hole visible.
 

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