I am just amazed...

[The Cromwell]

I am just amazed at all the outrage at the proposed flavor bans , etc

Vaping has been on borrowed time since the Deeming regs were implemented.
And they have not changed except for the drop dead date and punishments for those already violating the deeming regs by selling vape stuff not on the market in the USA on 8-8-2016 I think it was.

Only vaping products sold in the US market prior to the 8-8-2016 date are kinda allowed to be sold until the drop dead date happens in a year or so. All others are actually being sold illegally.
And when fully implemented on vaping products on the US market prior to Feb 2007? will be allowed unless each product is approved by the PMTA process.
And afik NO vaping products have been approved by the PMTA process.

It seems that vapers have forgotten the real battle here.
Because virtually NO vaping products flavored or not will be allowed to be sold after full implementation of the Deeming Regs.

State/city regs will not matter if the deeming regs go full power.

 

[The Cromwell]

https://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/Labeling/RulesRegulationsGuidance/UCM557716.pdf

 

[JuicyLucy]

You are right, a lot of vapers have gotten complacent, and new vapers unaware of the real issues

I'm guilty myself, in that I prepped for a long time for regulations to come down that have not yet been enforced

 

[The Cromwell]

And yes this includes juices not on the market prior to Feb 2007?

 

[JuicyLucy]

And yes this includes juices not on the market prior to Feb 2007?

I believe it does: GROSS

It is good to remind people there is a big vape war where the battle has lulled but the war is still raging

 

[midknight420]

DIY will not be affected, as the components themselves are not "vaping related". I'm not nearly as prepared as I'd like to be. It is truly amazing to me how little the government cares about the citizens. Always has been.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

You are right, a lot of vapers have gotten complacent, and new vapers unaware of the real issues

I'm guilty myself, in that I prepped for a long time for regulations to come down that have not yet been enforced

Same here I have prepped for the long haul as well.
Have enough hardware for the rest of my life. May get another liter of nic for the freezer...
PG/VG and flavorings and wire and cotton should not be an issue.
Unless they are sold to be used in vaping and then they fall under the deeming regs.
So lightning vape wire would be prohibited but Temco would not unless from a site advertising it as to be used for vaping.
Anything promoted for or labelled for vaping will be prohibited unless on the market prior to the Feb 2006 or 2007 date. Getting old and forget which...

And online overseas sales are/will be technically prohibited and will be crippled in any case when CC companys refuse to handle vaping sales

 

[The Cromwell]

DIY will not be affected, as the components themselves are not "vaping related". I'm not nearly as prepared as I'd like to be. It is truly amazing to me how little the government cares about the citizens. Always has been.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

They are prohibited if sold or promoted to be used for vaping.
Every wonder why Bull City Vapor changed their name to Bull City flavor? They are still iffy with their recipes package thing...
Not picking on BCF, love them and hope they survive.

those in control in the USA only care about the others in control ie the top few percent.

 

[midknight420]

They are prohibited if sold or promoted to be used for vaping.
Every wonder why Bull City Vapor changed their name to Bull City flavor? They are still iffy with their recipes package thing...

Haha, I was just looking on that site and did not notice the name change LOL. And honestly, get rid of the recipes. They would pretty much be golden then.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

Haha, I was just looking on that site and did not notice the name change LOL. And honestly, get rid of the recipes. They would pretty much be golden then.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

Yep.
Anyone that sells DIY supplies or wire and wick materials and it is not sold for or labelled for vaping will be fine.
Same with batteries.
but 99% of all vaping hardware and ejuice will technically be illegal to sell once full implementation of the Deeming regs kicks in.
And technically all those making and selling mods, ejuice, coils, etc technically have to have a tobacco manufacturers licence right now on a federal level and usually a tobacco retailers licence in most states.

 

[JuicyLucy]

DIY will not be affected, as the components themselves are not "vaping related". I'm not nearly as prepared as I'd like to be. It is truly amazing to me how little the government cares about the citizens. Always has been.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

Freebase nic could become an issue - it was always unclear to me

Most vapocolypse preppers are hoarding gallons of freebase nic in freezers

 

[The Cromwell]

Freebase nic could become an issue

Yep that is very likely to happen esp with teens and nicotine toothpicks, etc....
I also expect this to happen with legislation outside of the Deeming regs.
I expect that only licensed tobacco manufacturers will be able to buy it in the not too distant future.
And why I am thinking about getting another liter...
Have about 3 in the freezer but another one would not hurt...

 

[midknight420]

Freebase nic could become an issue

Possibly, I've been keeping up with some of the fight for vaping. Nic itself may not be affected either. I'm not sure what else it is used for, I haven't looked into that. But, supposedly it has another purpose as well. Any idea what else it's used for?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

 

[JuicyLucy]

Possibly, I've been keeping up with some of the fight for vaping. Nic itself may not be affected either. I'm not sure what else it is used for, I haven't looked into that. But, supposedly it has another purpose as well. Any idea what else it's used for?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

It used to be used as a pesticide, but nicotine was banned (I'm pretty sure) as a pesticide a long time ago

 

[The Cromwell]

Possibly, I've been keeping up with some of the fight for vaping. Nic itself may not be affected either. I'm not sure what else it is used for, I haven't looked into that. But, supposedly it has another purpose as well. Any idea what else it's used for?

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

Pesticides maybe still?
But those are pretty much restricted sales items now too.

 

[midknight420]

It used to be used as a pesticide, but nicotine was banned (I'm pretty sure) as a pesticide a long time ago

Pesticides maybe still?
But those are pretty much restricted sales items now too.

Hmm. Guess I better stock up. It's sad that it has come to this. Guess I better stock up on some gear, concentrates, and most especially nic. You are right. We, as a community, have become complacent. We just have to help and hope that the people fighting for us can bring to light what vaping has done for us all.

Sent from my LGMP450 using Tapatalk

 

[JuicyLucy]

While old school flavor concentrates will stay on the market (used for other things) flavorings companies like Inawerna and Flavorah, it is uncertain. They were created specifically for vaping

 

[The Cromwell]

While old school flavor concentrates will stay on the market (used for other things) flavorings companies like Inawerna and Flavorah, it is uncertain. They were created specifically for vaping

I thik as long as they make no reference to vaping in their sales or marketing they will be ok.
However those with vape in their name will be problematic at best.
The other can always be sold as drink or food flavorings.

 

[kross8]

And yes this includes juices not on the market prior to Feb 2007?

It's really the only reason I haven't piffed or trashed my stash of flavors. Now I have ran out of my normal flavors I am trying to make myself use up the ones I ignored..if I fail then I will just buy my normal recipe flavors and accept my loss. Luckily I am fine with no flavors and seem to be fine coming down from 12% to 8%+/-. Not everyone is so lucky

 

[Bluenatic]

When are these regulations to be enforced? I love how I can go to the gas station and grab a couple packs of smokes and a 12 pack but vaping is considered horrible to these people. FUCK THAT! I've been vaping for years now after it helped me quit cigs(I'm so thankful for vaping's POSITIVE outcome as I've been cigarette free since I've had vaping in my life). I guess I'm just confused on these regulations? At the gas station there's fruit flavored alcohol(wine coolers, spiked lemonade flavors, etc.), fruit flavored wraps for tobacco and the list goes on readily available. Is this "big tobacco" in the government's pockets? Is there a "hardline" date to be enacted?

 

[The Cromwell]

From what I can decipher from the above link 8-2022 is the end drop dead date. I was supposed to be last August I think but got extended.
And if nothing about the regs changes between now and then...
But technically anything sold now that was not sold in the USA before 8-8-2016 cannot legally be sold in the USA now.
Not a lawyer or anything but that is how I read it.
I may be wrong but I think the extension only applies to those products sold in the USA before 8-8-2016? No regs on those products on the US market before Feb 15,2007 I think.
So clearomizers, egos, and ciglaikes are fine I suppose.

ALL vape products introduced to the US market after 2-15-2007 require a costly PMTA approval from the FDA BEFORE being sold in the USA.
And paying for and filing for the PMTA process is no guarantee of approval at all. I think you must prove the benefit/safety scientifically of your vape device,or ejuice.
Each ejuice recipe...
And I know of no PMTA approvals and maybe less that 10 filings for PMTA approval for vape stuff.
Some for real tobacco products though. Filings that is. I the Swedish Snus are the only thing I think that has been approved.

I welcome any clarification from those more knowledgeable than I in these things.

 

[Bluenatic]

Thank you for the information. Very informative. Us vapors truly must take note. I know this thread had been helpful for myself. Hopefully others as well. Take care

 

[gsmit1]

The one hope may be that since these people could not possibly care less about absolutely anyTHING or anyONE that does not aid them in their relentless quest to gain and retain power, and by extension money, actual active enforcement MAY be pretty lax. Maybe.

This is not about children or public safety at all. If you think it is, you have a heartrendingly rude awakening coming. This entire anti-vaping movement, at least for the politicians, is about bowing to campaign donors and appeasing powerful lobbyists, who, unlike you and I, can actually affect the outcome of an election.

It is possible that once the regs are enacted, that alone will be seen as enough to accomplish the bowing and appeasement I mentioned above. Actual close enforcement might get tedious and expensive enough to keep it at bay long enough for the relatively free movement of vaping gear to continue if the community is wise and smart enough.

Please note that I am not advancing this as a probability, but only a possibility and maybe a slim one at that. I will be shocked if anything stops these tyrants from signing these regressive and unconstitutional policies into law. They have nothing politically to gain by not doing so and that is all that matters to them.

 

[The Cromwell]

For the last several years there has been efforts to change the 8-8-2016 date to a later date.
Each time it was not included in the bills that passed. They also included legislated regulations that expanded on the Deeming regs..

However it might be a good thing as there would still have been dire consequences to vaping if these laws had passed.
Some aspects could possibly be worse than those outlined in the Deeming regs.
FDA regualtions are one thing laws passed by congress are another.

unfortunately any vaping laws passed by congress will contain things that are not for vapings best interest.
or at least that is my opinion from what I have learned over the past 4 years.

Prepare for the future my vaping friends for we are a tiny minority in the USA and few outside our group have well wishes for us I fear.

 

[Jinx'd]

interesting read. I didn't know. I thought it was just the kid thing. and I know one of these kids.

 

[The Cromwell]

For anyone not familiar with the Deeming regs google it, there are some good summary articles out there.
The actual FDA regs are like reading legaleze...

 

[The Cromwell]

My 18 yr old grandson vapes and I have supported him in that since the smoking addiction gene is strong in males of my family.

Gave him a Wasp/squeeze a while back and he loved it.
Then gave him a Kbox mini kit and some wire/cotton and a coilmaster for Christmas.
Extra STM glass and such as well.
And a couple more VTC5A's.

Ideally I would rather he did not vape or smoke, but vaping is lots less harmful.

 

[JuicyLucy]

When are these regulations to be enforced? I love how I can go to the gas station and grab a couple packs of smokes and a 12 pack but vaping is considered horrible to these people. FUCK THAT! I've been vaping for years now after it helped me quit cigs(I'm so thankful for vaping's POSITIVE outcome as I've been cigarette free since I've had vaping in my life). I guess I'm just confused on these regulations? At the gas station there's fruit flavored alcohol(wine coolers, spiked lemonade flavors, etc.), fruit flavored wraps for tobacco and the list goes on readily available. Is this "big tobacco" in the government's pockets? Is there a "hardline" date to be enacted?

Scott Gottlieb (FDA commissioner) has ordered Juul to address teen vaping. So flavored pods such as Juul NOT to be sold anywhere but establishments where there is a minimum age to enter the store.

What this means, is my 31-year old daughter can't get her mango Juul pods at 7-11 anymore, only tobacco or mint, which she doesn't like. She has to go to an actual vape shop or buy online, which she also doesn't like. While yes, she is lazy, she pays her own way and is willing to pay for convenience. There are many, many like her.

Gottlieb recently threatened to enforce the original 8/8/16 deadline on vaping products, which would force almost all vapes that hit the market after 2007 off of the shelves that has not been approved by the FDA, which has yet to approve a single application on vape related gear/juice

It's why I own over 50 squonkers, mainly mechanical, and over 100 atomizers, and a few gallons of nic. I ain't no hoarder, but I am not going to sit around hoping the govt. doesn't fuck up my right to vape.

I have ensured that for myself

 

[The Cromwell]

The vast majority of vapers in the USA do NOT get their vape stuff online but at convenience stores or vape shops.
People here and on other vape boards are but a tiny part of those who vape in the USA.
The vast majority know nothing about the Deeming regs and their projected impact on vaping.
Vape shops used to be active in informing vapers of the Deeming regs but that seems to have fizzled out.

 

[The Cromwell]

It's why I own over 50 squonkers, mainly mechanical, and over 100 atomizers, and a few gallons of nic. I ain't no hoarder, but I am not going to sit around hoping the govt. doesn't fuck up my right to vape.

Not really hoarding but smart planning.
I only have about 16 squonkers and about 25 other mods.

Think I need more nic though...
And maybe a couple more pico Squeezes before the next round of Chinese tariffs kick in.
the next round is supposed to hit vaping and most everything else we get from China.
Look for your local retailers prices to go up on many many things.

 

[Vape Fan]

iirr PMTA filing fees are pretty high, which would leave a lot of small businesses out of business, jobs lost, and more American dollars lost.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Not really hoarding but smart planning.
I only have about 16 squonkers and about 25 other mods.

Think I need more nic though...
And maybe a couple more pico Squeezes before the next round of Chinese tariffs kick in.
the next round is supposed to hit vaping and most everything else we get from China.
Look for your local retailers prices to go up on many many things.

I suggest you hurry, these white jobbers at FT are the last. A legend has been DISCONTINUED

Authentic Eleaf Pico Squeeze 50W 18650 Mechanical Squonk Box Mod (White)

 

[The Cromwell]

Tactically speaking the delay of full Deeming reg implementation was a good tactic by the anti vapers.
Let the initial outrage die down and let states do some regulation of their own while people forget..

 

[The Cromwell]

I suggest you hurry, these white jobbers at FT are the last. A legend has been DISCONTINUED

Authentic Eleaf Pico Squeeze 50W 18650 Mechanical Squonk Box Mod (White)

Yep I had noticed that.
Thanks for the reminder.
2 ordered

 

[JuicyLucy]

Vape shops used to be active in informing vapers of the Deeming regs but that seems to have fizzled out.

Last year, I went to more vape shops than all the other years of vaping combined.

In almost all of them (when I asked about deeming regs) some didn't even know what I was talking about. A few where like, "oh, well it didn't happen."

One place, (where I bought some house juice because I was stuck there during a bad storm and felt I should buy something), I asked them what they would do if they got busted for making juice on premises (saw numerous violations BTW). Dude said "We'll pay the fine."

 

[The Cromwell]

Last year, I went to more vape shops than all the other years of vaping combined.

In almost all of them (when I asked about deeming regs) some didn't even know what I was talking about. A few where like, "oh, well it didn't happen."

One place, (where I bought some house juice because I was stuck there during a bad storm and felt I should buy something), I asked them what they would do if they got busted for making juice on premises (saw numerous violations BTW). Dude said "We'll pay the fine."

Pay the fine to the FEDS and the State?
And after full implementation be shut down. The fines accrue per day of violation I suspect and they seize all your juice or whatever you should not be selling.
Idiots...

Edit: scanned those webinars and they seem to deal mostly with underage selling.


All vape shop and vape related business should visit this site and view the FDA webinars.
https://www.fda.gov/tobaccoproducts/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/ucm220111.htm

5 violations within a 36 month period will result in being prohibited from selling tobacco products ie vape products.
In addition to monetary fines and multiple fines can be assesed at each inspection so 1 inspection could shut down a vape retailer.

 

[The Cromwell]

In general, penalties for violating other FD&C Act requirements relating to tobacco products may not exceed $15,000 for each violation or $1,000,000 for all violations adjudicated in a single proceeding.6 82 Section 303(f)(9)(A) of the FD&C Act. Violations of certain provisions may be subject to enhanced penalties. Section 303(f)(9)(B) of the 84 FD&C Act.

 

[JuicyLucy]

In general, penalties for violating other FD&C Act requirements relating to tobacco products may not exceed $15,000 for each violation or $1,000,000 for all violations adjudicated in a single proceeding.6 82 Section 303(f)(9)(A) of the FD&C Act. Violations of certain provisions may be subject to enhanced penalties. Section 303(f)(9)(B) of the 84 FD&C Act.

I'll tell them next time I'm in Anchorage

 

[The Cromwell]

I'll tell them next time I'm in Anchorage

Tell them to go to the FDA website and watch their webinars on the subject.
Quite boring but informative.
And scary.

 

[The Cromwell]

iirr PMTA filing fees are pretty high, which would leave a lot of small businesses out of business, jobs lost, and more American dollars lost.

Yep and would decrease the trade deficit with China by a tiny amount.

 

[Artemis]

Not really hoarding but smart planning.
I only have about 16 squonkers and about 25 other mods.

Think I need more nic though...
And maybe a couple more pico Squeezes before the next round of Chinese tariffs kick in.
the next round is supposed to hit vaping and most everything else we get from China.
Look for your local retailers prices to go up on many many things.

Hi! When are the tariffs expected? Just curious if I have time to buy stuff. I might buy more nic (at the very least I can make nic toothpicks).

 

[The Cromwell]

Hi! When are the tariffs expected? Just curious if I have time to buy stuff. I might buy more nic (at the very least I can make nic toothpicks).

Not sure and I suspect that the shutdown has impacted the implementation and other economic and political considerations as well.
But Originally it was supposed to be around this time.
Who knows they may not even take place.
However the Pico Squeeze at FT went up about $3 over the past few months?
Not sure why.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I noticed a lot of prices from China went up, not just vape gear

 

[Vape Fan]

I noticed a lot of prices from China went up, not just vape gear

I've noticed this too.

 

[Artemis]

Thanks for the heads up. I will be screwed. I have tried building coils in the past. Each time failing. I know my limits. People will say "It's easy". Yes, it may be for most, but not for me.

I have wanted to quit vaping. It may be time for me to search for a different vice.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Thanks for the heads up. I will be screwed. I have tried building coils in the past. Each time failing. I know my limits. People will say "It's easy". Yes, it may be for most, but not for me.

I have wanted to quit vaping. It may be time for me to search for a different vice.

It took me years of banging my head to get it right, lol. Especially RTAs

 

[The Cromwell]

I noticed a lot of prices from China went up, not just vape gear

I figure either in preparation for tariffs or to increase profits for the growing middle class in China.

 

[The Cromwell]

Thanks for the heads up. I will be screwed. I have tried building coils in the past. Each time failing. I know my limits. People will say "It's easy". Yes, it may be for most, but not for me.

I have wanted to quit vaping. It may be time for me to search for a different vice.

Used a coilmaster?
last coilmaster set I got from China was under $10.

also SS wire is much easier to use than Kanthal.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I figure either in preparation for tariffs or to increase profits for the growing middle class in China.

It's been really confusing, the tariff thing on the consumer level

I think until now, the tariffs have been applied to raw materials, which has impacted US manufacturing prices, but is about to hit consumer goods produced in China, not just stuff like recycled steel they sell back to the US

That is how I'm understanding it anyways, lol

 

[The Cromwell]

It's been really confusing, the tariff thing on the consumer level

I think until now, the tariffs have been applied to raw materials, which has impacted US manufacturing prices, but is about to hit consumer goods produced in China, not just stuff like recycled steel they sell back to the US

That is how I'm understanding it anyways, lol

Nope on appliances, farm machinery and some other stuff so far.
And China retaliated with tariffs on corn and soybeans and curtailed recycled metal imports from the USA.

the next round is supposed to cover pretty much everything from china. so most retailers will have price increases on most products.