China Bashing - I Don’t Get It

[skt239]

One thing I’ve always found curious is our irrational china bashing. All political BS aside, I just don’t get it. I think I should have my own sub forum called “The things I Don’t Get” because the things I don’t get could fill a sub forum...

China practically invented vaping and has made it accessible to anyone who wants to quit and has roughly $25 to spend. They have advanced the technology at break neck speeds and given us so many options and variations of products we complain about having too many options. Not to mention the affordability. The Chinese are famous for their competive business practices, often so competitive that they ruin their own businesses. This sucks for them but is great for us, the consumer.

A good example of this is the price war between Chinese owned bus companies that did runs from DC to NYC. The price war got so out of control, you could take a bus from NY to DC for a shirt button and two cereal box tops. Many people like to bring up the clone issue but that’s moot. They are only making what the consumer demands and there will always be a market for counterfeit shit.

In closing I’ll say - if you disagree with me, imagine a world where all vaping products came from the US and Europe at Euro and US prices. Would you still be vaping?

Let the flaming begin.

 

[Teresa P]

I agree completely. And also think it's an excellent thread title, "Things I Don't Get."

 

[pulsevape]

well there is so much bullshit there it's hard to know where to begin...you enjoy being able to indulge in mindless consumption of cheap ass low quality chinese trash..I get it,I mean it's a cultural pastime among a huge strata of Americans .. but trying to justify mindless consumption of trinkets.. with cock and bull stories and outright nonsense is silly

 

[The Cromwell]

I fully agree without China We would have either no or virtually no vapers in the USA today.

 

[pulsevape]

I fully agree without China We would have either no or virtually no vapers in the USA today.

that's ridiculous....without Walmart I guess you'd also walk around naked...even when you weren't shopping at Walmart..

 

[SteveS45]

One thing I’ve always found curious is our irrational china bashing. All political BS aside, I just don’t get it.

Simple answer is the Masses Are Asses........................

 

[ceecee]

Meh. People love to bitch and complain. It's practically a hobby for some people

 

[jwill]

I don't disagree. I do not believe they are the champions of innovation with vaping but they are the champions of mass production and driving prices into the ground (which we all love).

If China were to have been under embargo like Cuba, as soon as Americans or Europeans seen pictures of Asians making clouds with batteries we would have had kids sorting that out in their garages and had our vaping renaissance. Its hard to say how things would have turned out under different circumstances but we can look at history for other similar instances. It would have ended up being a vaping arms race of sorts.

Personally I love clone gear because it is cheap and if I get a 1:1 that doesn't suck, then I buy the real thing. Would much rather spend $12 to see if a design fits my vape style than to find out for $120 that it didn't.

I know dudes who vape 100% clone 100% of the time and they don't hate their experience. Something to be said for that.

 

[pulsevape]

I don't disagree. I do not believe they are the champions of innovation with vaping but they are the champions of mass production and driving prices into the ground (which we all love).

If China were to have been under embargo like Cuba, as soon as Americans or Europeans seen pictures of Asians making clouds with batteries we would have had kids sorting that out in their garages and had our vaping renaissance. Its hard to say how things would have turned out under different circumstances but we can look at history for other similar instances. It would have ended up being a vaping arms race of sorts.

Personally I love clone gear because it is cheap and if I get a 1:1 that doesn't suck, then I buy the real thing. Would much rather spend $12 to see if a design fits my vape style than to find out for $120 that it didn't.

I know dudes who vape 100% clone 100% of the time and they don't hate their experience. Something to be said for that.

they are only champions of mass production due to, favored trading status, slave labor,enviromental catstrophes and the fact they steal anything not nailed down.

 

[Letitia9]

I could't afford my gear if it weren't for China. I'd still be stuck with one mediocre setup.

 

[jwill]

they are only champions of mass production due to, favored trading status, slave labor,enviromental catstrophes and the fact they steal anything not nailed down.

Even if it is nailed down it will be stolen. They will also steal the nails and whatever it is nailed to. Copy all of it and start selling it on ebay for fractions of the cost to produce it stateside.

 

[Time]

Vaping aside, as vaping did indeed begin with China, the general discontent with China and trade is a long story.

The short version is that China industry was government subsidized allowing China to flood markets and put US industry out of business. Most people have not gotten over it, and probably shouldn't.

 

[The Cromwell]

I could't afford my gear if it weren't for China. I'd still be stuck with one mediocre setup.

I would still be smoking.

 

[Just Frank]

I don't hate on Chinese companies. Without them and their reasonable prices we'd all be getting ass raped at the check out.

 

[SteveS45]

If the Chinese produce products and sell them for cheap why is there even a need to buy a clone? Sure I understand it is even cheaper but........

 

[AndriaD]

Yes, China is making tons and tons of Stuff, for the consumer maaaaaaaasses. They've fallen in love with profit, much as America did in and just after the industrial revolution. And you all know what that level of industry did to the air and water over here -- so then we started outsourcing all that labor, to clean up our air and water, and it worked, our environment in the developed world is in better shape now. And China's is going to hell in that proverbial handbasket. I don't think the Chinese gov't cares much, there are so many Chinese, if a few million die of industrial disease, there are billions more where they came from. And that is why we get stuff cheap -- because they don't care about the collateral damage and what that costs in terms of lives.

The major collateral damage here to that outsourcing, of course, is that our nat'l debt has grown, unemployment is rife, until enough people get serious skills in the new disruptive technology, the internet -- which is helping along that other new disruptive technology... vaping. It's the new revolution, on both counts, and until the disruption settles down somewhat, a lot of things are going to suck, just like in the industrial revolution. Change often brings improvement, but it also brings suffering and angst until one gets accustomed to the new normal... then things change again.

Andria

 

[The Cromwell]

I do not believe they are the champions of innovation

Ahh but that is changing. As it is going China will be far more innovative than the USA in the near future.

Not that I like that happening, but I cannot ignore the truth of it.

 

[Time]

I could't afford my gear if it weren't for China. I'd still be stuck with one mediocre setup.

Likewise, you could afford US made gear, if it weren't for China.

If China had not destroyed our manufacturing base so that US wages were higher, you would not have to buy the cheap stuff. You could afford US made stuff.

Not that it is completely China's fault. The Trade Deals of the past made it possible.

 

[skt239]

Truth be told, I only started this thread so our future Chinese overlords might find it one day and look upon me with favor.

 

[pulsevape]

Likewise, you could afford US made gear, if it weren't for China.

If China had not destroyed our manufacturing base so that US wages were higher, you would not have to buy the cheap stuff. You could afford US made stuff.

Not that it is completely China's fault. The Trade Deals of the past made it possible.

exacttly...... if China didn't steal the designs of the international modders they'd be left with cartomizers and crappy atties they designed...if the Chinese didn't steal the designs of modders what would have happened...the modders would have competed with each other for the vaping dollar, and they would have done it by mass producing their desgins and been able to lower the price by making it up in quanity,but because the chinese stole their designs the international modders never got the chance to mass produce their own designs...if China had not stolen the designs of the modders...today the modders would be selling their gear for half the price is not lower than they sell today., and we would have had triple the amount of innovation and design than we have today....the upshot is China has driven most of the international modders out of bussiness, and what are we left with...the same sub-ohm cloud chasing horseshit being made over and over again in 16 differnet colors...hows that for innovation....95% of the people on this form don't buy gear to stop smoking, they buy it because vaping has become a hobby..we don't own boatloads of gear to keep us from smoking we buy it because it is ammusses us just like the hordes that descend on Walmart mostly buy crap they don't need...but would kill you at a Christmas sale for the last inflatable Santa.....

 

[AndriaD]

Not that it is completely China's fault. The Trade Deals of the past made it possible.

This. China didn't take our jobs by force -- they did it by offering good terms for mass industrialization, which American industialists ate up like candy. So the Americans look good for helping to get all that nasty industrial pollution off onto China, who don't care what their environment is, if they're high up enough in the Chinese govt machine, they can escape to whatever Shangrila suits their fancy. And the American businessmen who look so sanctified for cleaning things up don't get their proper blame for exporting our jobs wholesale, when they damn well ought to. If OUR govt put a high tariff on any company outsourcing any part of their labor to the 3rd world, companies would stop doing it. Prices would go up of course, for many of the products we commonly buy, but hey, we got our jobs back!

It's all a balancing act; you do something good and useful for your country, and the far-reaching effects of that activity are hard to comprehend when you're signing on the dotted line, and it's usually not the muckety-mucks who bear those costs, it's the working... or unemployed... people.

Andria

 

[pulsevape]

Ahh but that is changing. As it is going China will be far more innovative than the USA in the near future.

Not that I like that happening, but I cannot ignore the truth of it.

No they won't ..the goverment of China are a bunch of totalitarian neanderthals who put their boots on the back of their people's necks and terrorize them...people living in fear can't be creative.can not innovate...

 

[The Cromwell]

No they won't ..the goverment of China are a bunch of totalitarian neanderthals who put their boots on the back of their people's necks and terrorize them...people living in fear can't be creative.can not innovate...

Like our school children living in fear right now?
And the parents of those children?

 

[skt239]

Like our school children living in fear right now?
And the parents of those children?

Yeah our government is much more advanced when it comes to terrorizing the population. They use the media and tell us there’s a kgb agent in every voting booth and a terrorist under every turban.

 

[The Cromwell]

the sad truth is America is in descent and China is in Ascension right now.
it sucks but the way it is.
I do not agree with they way China is run nor do I agree with the way the USA is run.

 

[Time]

China didn't take our jobs by force -- they did it by offering good terms for mass industrialization

Sorry, no. China did take our jobs by force. They didn't offer good terms, they used government subsidies to flood markets bankrupting US companies while artificially propping up their own. They skirted trade laws. They've been playing dirty for a very long time.

I said it wasn't all China's fault. Our trade deals and a lack of regulating China allowed China to take our jobs by force. If somebody snatches your purse and you didn't do anything about it does not mean that they didn't snatch your purse by force.

 

[The Cromwell]

Sorry, no. China did take our jobs by force. They didn't offer good terms, they used government subsidies to flood markets bankrupting US companies while artificially propping up their own. They skirted trade laws. They've been playing dirty for a very long time.

I said it wasn't all China's fault. Our trade deals and a lack of regulating China allowed China to take our jobs by force. If somebody snatches your purse and you didn't do anything about it does not mean that they didn't snatch your purse by force.

US businesses eagerly sought Chinese manufacturers for their goods to boost their bottom line. And still do.
And our government permitted and encouraged it and still does.

Do we have a Chinese owned Wal Mart or the like importing and selling Chinese goods over here?
Nope good ol Merican businesses.

 

[Time]

US businesses eagerly sought Chinese manufacturers for their goods to boost their bottom line. And still do.
And our government permitted and encouraged it and still does.

Revisionist.

That came later.

You ignorant fucks always want to put the egg before the chicken. The word for today is

chro·nol·o·gy
krəˈnäləjē/
noun
noun: chronology; plural noun: chronologies
the arrangement of events or dates in the order of their occurrence.

 

[Pastorfuzz]

I try not to buy anything made in China if possible. Not that I am anti China, just prefer other items because most Chinese items are junk.
When I first started vaping I purchased Chinese because that's what friends introduced me to. But after being in this hobby and learning as I go, I now only get USA or products made in the Philippines.
I've never owned or will own a foreign vehicle either. And yes I know some of the parts are made in other countries so it can't be helped.
Typing on a Chinese laptop and watching a TV made in China. Can't be helped. But if I have the option, i'll choose elsewhere.
Bottom line, I try and support my fellow workers in the USA. It costs more for sure. To me it is worth it.

 

[Mattp169]

I'm smart enough to know that China and other countries have had a serious impact on our economy and prices worldwide for all sorts of products; as well as the change from buying something once and having it for 20 years ( maybe with some repairs over that time) to the throw away generation we have now.
Im also smart enough to know, I don't know enough to fully understand it or debate the pros and cons of it all.

I am smart enough to know that statements like this

if China didn't steal the designs of the international modders

PISS ME THE FUCK OFF because they are just stereotypical generalizations, that as a once in a while joke are one thing but to pass them off as stone cold facts is another. PROVE THEY STOLE IT. because I agree china copies everything but so does every other manufacturer in the world.

Leaving clones out of the discussion.... but not all clones come from china...

Does that mean and I am not sure I have my facts correct so if they are incorrect I apologize, but evolve was the first TC board, so every mod maker should be forced to use the DNA board if they want to offer TC and not be accused of stealing the design.

copying something or reverse engineering and copying something often leads to innovation

Even if china never existed. and all products bought and sold in the USA were 100% american made and designed. I guarantee for every new widget that came out in the USA someone else would make their own version of the widget and it would be the same damn thing only slightly different.

China does not hold the patent on this type of behaviour and to constantly say that's a Chinese behaviour is ignorant.

The problem lies in governmental and economic forces at work around the world.

Let's look at it this way....
Think of how many American juice companies there are nowadays.
DO you think every flavor they offer is some unique flavor profile no one else came up with before?
Or do you think most flavors any american company uses could be considered a copy of another flavor produced by a different american juice company? There's only so many flavor combinations people find tasteful and that will sell. But the recipe to get that flavor profile may be different. It's still copying. It's the same premise as a chinese company seeing an american made product and making their own version of it.
Did flavorah (founded in 2013) steal all the ideas for their flavor line from capella (founded in 2005)?
I never hear the DIY people bitching about finding a new flavor company or when company introduces new flavors even if someone else already offers that flavor. They don't go, Hey they stole that

I am sick of tired of the racists comments made about China. Does some underhanded shit that should probably be or is considered illegal here in the USA happen there?? YEP...But it goe son here in the USA as well.

 

[The Cromwell]

Remember when Japan was the supplier of cheap junk? Now?
And before China we exported jobs to Mexico to save labor costs and make more profit.
Other parts of the world killed the textile and clothing industry long before China got into the US game.

China is just the latest player and bigger than the rest.

 

[HondaDavidson]

Likewise, you could afford US made gear, if it weren't for China.

If China had not destroyed our manufacturing base so that US wages were higher, you would not have to buy the cheap stuff. You could afford US made stuff.

Not that it is completely China's fault. The Trade Deals of the past made it possible.

China didn't steal our manufacturing base.. We taxed and regulated it out of the US and to where it was cheaper to make stuff.... China just capitalized on our bad voting choices. WE MADE CHINA.

 

[Mattp169]

I try not to buy anything made in China if possible. Not that I am anti China, just prefer other items because most Chinese items are junk.
When I first started vaping I purchased Chinese because that's what friends introduced me to. But after being in this hobby and learning as I go, I now only get USA or products made in the Philippines.
I've never owned or will own a foreign vehicle either. And yes I know some of the parts are made in other countries so it can't be helped.
Typing on a Chinese laptop and watching a TV made in China. Can't be helped. But if I have the option, i'll choose elsewhere.
Bottom line, I try and support my fellow workers in the USA. It costs more for sure. To me it is worth it.

CHina does make crap products, they also make products that rival any other country so that statement is incorrect
Many foreign car manufacturers actually have factorie sin the USA and build parts and fully assemble the vehicles here in teh USA using American workers.

 

[pulsevape]

I'm smart enough to know that China and other countries have had a serious impact on our economy and prices worldwide for all sorts of products; as well as the change from buying something once and having it for 20 years ( maybe with some repairs over that time) to the throw away generation we have now.
Im also smart enough to know, I don't know enough to fully understand it or debate the pros and cons of it all.

I am smart enough to know that statements like this

PISS ME THE FUCK OFF because they are just stereotypical generalizations, that as a once in a while joke are one thing but to pass them off as stone cold facts is another. PROVE THEY STOLE IT. because I agree china copies everything but so does every other manufacturer in the world.

Leaving clones out of the discussion.... but not all clones come from china...

Does that mean and I am not sure I have my facts correct so if they are incorrect I apologize, but evolve was the first TC board, so every mod maker should be forced to use the DNA board if they want to offer TC and not be accused of stealing the design.

copying something or reverse engineering and copying something often leads to innovation

Even if china never existed. and all products bought and sold in the USA were 100% american made and designed. I guarantee for every new widget that came out in the USA someone else would make their own version of the widget and it would be the same damn thing only slightly different.

China does not hold the patent on this type of behaviour and to constantly say that's a Chinese behaviour is ignorant.

The problem lies in governmental and economic forces at work around the world.

Let's look at it this way....
Think of how many American juice companies there are nowadays.
DO you think every flavor they offer is some unique flavor profile no one else came up with before?
Or do you think most flavors any american company uses could be considered a copy of another flavor produced by a different american juice company? There's only so many flavor combinations people find tasteful and that will sell. But the recipe to get that flavor profile may be different. It's still copying. It's the same premise as a chinese company seeing an american made product and making their own version of it.
Did flavorah (founded in 2013) steal all the ideas for their flavor line from capella (founded in 2005)?
I never hear the DIY people bitching about finding a new flavor company or when company introduces new flavors even if someone else already offers that flavor. They don't go, Hey they stole that

I am sick of tired of the racists comments made about China. Does some underhanded shit that should probably be or is considered illegal here in the USA happen there?? YEP...But it goe son here in the USA as well.

LOL..yeah it's racist to say it's bullshit that some lone guy sitting in his workshop designing and building an atty ,and then getting them ripped of and stolen,even down to using the guys own logos, is a fucking crime...you're full of shit.
There is not a modder on the planet today who doesn't know that any gear he creates today will be stolen by the chinese tommorow down to the logo..so what is the point of him investing his blood sweat and tears just to make the chinese richer,and this destroys innovation. He sells to people who want authentics which is a small handfull and trys and make a pittance off what his ideas are really worth.meanwhile some POS in China makes a bundle off his work.

 

[Pastorfuzz]

Remember when Japan was the supplier of cheap junk? Now?
And before China we exported jobs to Mexico to save labor costs and make more profit.
Other parts of the world killed the textile and clothing industry long before China got into the US game.

China is just the latest player and bigger than the rest.

Japan did make some serious audio equipment back in the 70's though.
I have a collection of Marantz, Pioneer, and Kenwood receivers and amps that still work today after a little freshening.
Granted they all weighed 70lbs but the crap Chinese surround sound made today sucks in comparison.

 

[pulsevape]

China didn't steal our manufacturing base.. We taxed and regulated it out of the US and to where it was cheaper to make stuff.... China just capitalized on our bad voting choices. WE MADE CHINA.

No American citizen voted for the trade policies between China..the industrialists in this country bought our political class to give most favored trade status to China before they moved a single chair out of the US..the whole game was set up by the corporations and a corrupt political class...nobody in America thinks for a minute that the Politicans in Washington DC give a rat's ass what the American people want.or how they vote.head we win tales you lose...wow what's your vote worth...the Corporations have turned the US into a Globalist (not Chinese) colony and we have idiots gratefull for it.

 

[Time]

Im also smart enough to know, I don't know enough to fully understand it or debate the pros and cons of it all.

You should have ended there.

Just for an example, one restaurant can, and do, sue another restaurant for using an exact recipe. They can issue cease and desist orders.

The things you describe are lawfully protected. I imagine there is not allot of suing over ejuice recipes because of a fear of bringing the FDA down on ones own head over a juice recipe.

Anyway, while much of what you describe probably goes on, I think you don't see allot of legal action taken for two reasons. Vape shops probably don't have the legal funds to pursue legal actions and two, they don't want the attention from the FDA that may come with such legal actions.

And, for the record, I think if we knew somebody was doing something like that we'd call them out on the forum so I don't think calling out China is in any way racist. That's just fucking stupid. If somebody was stealing HIC recipes(the protected ones on his site) and making money off them, I think we'd call them out on it. Don't you? Does that make us racist against the immaginary HIC recipe thief? LOL.

 

[Pastorfuzz]

CHina does make crap products, they also make products that rival any other country so that statement is incorrect
Many foreign car manufacturers actually have factorie sin the USA and build parts and fully assemble the vehicles here in teh USA using American workers.

That's' why I said "MOST" not "ALL"
I agree with you about the vehicles made here, but it's still not a US owned brand.
I'll choose to buy from U.S. when I can.

 

[Time]

Japan did make some serious audio equipment back in the 70's though.
I have a collection of Marantz, Pioneer, and Kenwood receivers and amps that still work today after a little freshening.
Granted they all weighed 70lbs but the crap Chinese surround sound made today sucks in comparison.

Um, Marantz was founded in New York and now resides in Japan. Not China.
Pioneer is a Japanese Company. Not China.
Kenwood is a Japanese Company. Not China.

I agree with your last sentence.

Never mind. I see I misread your post. Japan it is. LOL. At first I thought it said China made good audio in the 70's.

 

[jwill]

If the Chinese produce products and sell them for cheap why is there even a need to buy a clone? Sure I understand it is even cheaper but........

When I buy clones it is generally of a high ticket item (usually something American made or some other super premium something). If it works for me, I pony up and get the real thing. There are several things I have ended up purchasing and falling in love with and many that have been walked away from that would have pissed me off shelling out big bucks for and hating.

 

[pulsevape]

When I buy clones it is generally of a high ticket item (usually something American made or some other super premium something). If it works for me, I pony up and get the real thing. There are several things I have ended up purchasing and falling in love with and many that have been walked away from that would have pissed me off shelling out big bucks for and hating.

I totally understand that logic, the vapers aren't given a whole lot of choices,because the modders got screwed and are not able to mass produce their own gear they aren't able to offer their gear at more affordable rates to the vaping community...hell, if the modders rights were protected they most likely would sell their older designs for rock bottom prices before releasing new products...we would have reliable sources of replacement parts for cheap,and be able to own a piece of high quality gear all our lives...I'm not saying vapers have a whole lots of choices left to them,but saying this is how we got here. In some ways we sacrificed for immediate gratification, the long term health of the industry, and wound up killing the golden goose.

 

[jwill]

I totally understand that logic, the vapers aren't given a whole lot of choices,because the modders got screwed and are not able to mass produce their own gear they aren't able to offer their gear at more affordable rates to the vaping community...hell, if the modders rights were protected they most likely would sell their older designs for rock bottom prices before releasing new products...we would have reliable sources of replacement parts for cheap,and be able to own a piece of high quality gear all our lives...I'm not saying vapers have a whole lots of choices left to them,but saying this is how we got here. In some ways we sacrificed for immediate gratification and wound up killing the golden goose.

This is very true. Look at Vaping American Made. They have had times when they deeply discounted old products or ones slated to be discontinued right about the time new ones were coming out. Right now they have the V3 for half its original price.

I buy clone goon gear for screws and other parts because the 1:1 copies are generally cheaper than repair packs+shipping and have only had a couple of times when the machining was off and it didnt work.

Also have a bunch of authentic older mech mods that were treated poorly when I first started vaping and now wanting to bring them back to life has me sourcing 1:1 copies to rob parts.

 

[eStorm]

I don't dislike Chinese manufactured products, some are better than others, I do however not buy from specific companies that are known for their horrible production and quality. Sadly its mostly based in China, therefore a lot of people look at that and will say that they hate everything made in China, not just vape equipment.

But every country does have that, there's a lot of items in my place, that I purchased from Germany. Why? Well I grew up with it, I know the quality and I tried the american and mostly cheaper version of the product and don't like the outcome. On the other side there's a lot of items made here in america my husband introduced me too, that are better or not made like this anywhere else. I guess at the end of course its personal preference, but most people will stick with items they experienced as better, and will just avoid everything else.

In most cases its China that gets mentioned because a lot of us feel, even if its not 100% proven, that due to quality standards and regulations certain items are lacking features that other countries will easily provide. Maybe its also that some people do not understand china, I mean lots have been to Europe etc and besides the language barrier, business and quality is nearly the same, similar or close to the things people are adjusted too.who knows.

One thing tho, no matter what product we talking about, none of them will hold up to items that were produced let's say 1950, because no matter in which country, the quality control was better in most cases leading to longer lasting products in general.

 

[pulsevape]

When I buy clones it is generally of a high ticket item (usually something American made or some other super premium something). If it works for me, I pony up and get the real thing. There are several things I have ended up purchasing and falling in love with and many that have been walked away from that would have pissed me off shelling out big bucks for and hating.

you know I have to say..that when everything washes out I've walked away pretty happy..I've bought authentic gear I wasn't crazy about and let go for half of what I paid for it,but then I've sold them to people who were grateful for the deal and turned around and sold me things cheap becuase of it, and have gone so far as to give me authentic gear they no longer used....sure there are flippers out there lots of them but nobody but idiots deal with them.

 

[Pastorfuzz]

Um, Marantz was founded in New York and now resides in Japan. Not China.
Pioneer is a Japanese Company. Not China.
Kenwood is a Japanese Company. Not China.

I agree with your last sentence.

Never mind. I see I misread your post. Japan it is. LOL. At first I thought it said China made good audio in the 70's.

No biggie! Marantz maybe headquartered in Japan, but 99% of their audio is made in China.
Plus most can't even be repaired because the parts can't be sourced from anywhere.
A friend of mine bought a $2600.00 Marantz surround sound receiver (CHINA) and it took a crap after a year and a half.
He took it to Chicago Audio (authorized repair center) and they told him they can't get the parts new anymore. WTF?
They did end up getting the part out of another identical junk receiver 3 mos. later and fixed it.

 

[Mattp169]

You should have ended there.

Just for an example, one restaurant can, and do, sue another restaurant for using an exact recipe. They can issue cease and desist orders.

The things you describe are lawfully protected. I imagine there is not allot of suing over ejuice recipes because of a fear of bringing the FDA down on ones own head over a juice recipe.

Anyway, while much of what you describe probably goes on, I think you don't see allot of legal action taken for two reasons. Vape shops probably don't have the legal funds to pursue legal actions and two, they don't want the attention from the FDA that may come with such legal actions.

And, for the record, I think if we knew somebody was doing something like that we'd call them out on the forum so I don't think calling out China is in any way racist. That's just fucking stupid. If somebody was stealing HIC recipes(the protected ones on his site) and making money off them, I think we'd call them out on it. Don't you? Does that make us racist against the immaginary HIC recipe thief? LOL.

first I never said exact recipes, I said I was leaving cloning out of the discussion. but juice companies have flavors which are similar or nearly identical without using the exact same recipe. Capella and Flavorah have a strawberry flavor...it is probably not the exact same chemical makeup.

We cannot expect our business laws to apply to other countries or their laws to apply to America. Once again that comes down to governmental and economic forces at work.

And yes if we knew for sure that someone was selling a HIC recipe for profit we would try calling them out, but it probably would have 0 effect since most people who buy premade juice do not know who HIC is. It would be on HIC to file a lawsuit and the lawyers and courts to figure it out. However I would not be surprised if some juice companies have been using HIC recipes for a while now or at least basing some of their own recipes off his

And regardless do you hear people on this forum calling juice companies out for stealing recipes or ideas from one another like people on this forum call out an entire country for doing it over mod designs and atomizers?

But my ideas do not only apply to vaping it goes on in every industry.

I feel often on this forum...people assume China is some corrupt morally ambiguous country full of evil business men who will do and say anything, lie cheat and steal for a few yen. ANd I am sure there are people like that in China but their are people like that all over the world. SO to call China out for it when American companies and companies all over the world do the same thing is racist

 

[jwill]

you know I have to say..that when everything washes out I've walked away pretty happy..I've bought authentic gear I wasn't crazy about and let go for half of what I paid for it,but then I've sold them to people who were grateful for the deal and turned around and sold me things cheap becuase of it, and have gone so far as to give me authentic gear they no longer used....sure there are flippers out there lots of them but nobody but idiots deal with them.

The community is great. Wish I had found it sooner.

 

[pulsevape]

This is very true. Look at Vaping American Made. They have had times when they deeply discounted old products or ones slated to be discontinued right about the time new ones were coming out. Right now they have the V3 for half its original price.

I buy clone goon gear for screws and other parts because the 1:1 copies are generally cheaper than repair packs+shipping and have only had a couple of times when the machining was off and it didnt work.

Also have a bunch of authentic older mech mods that were treated poorly when I first started vaping and now wanting to bring them back to life has me sourcing 1:1 copies to rob parts.

Doc Dave, the modder who made the Bliss, and micro mini, and the Reactor used to have what he called "Fuck clones sales" where he would sell his atty's for half price,sometimes even lower.

 

[pulsevape]

The community is great. Wish I had found it sooner.

The community used to support the modders much much more than they do now...and we are starting to reap the damage from that.

 

[pulsevape]

first I never said exact recipes, I said I was leaving cloning out of the discussion. but juice companies have flavors which are similar or nearly identical without using the exact same recipe. Capella and Flavorah have a strawberry flavor...it is probably not the exact same chemical makeup.

We cannot expect our business laws to apply to other countries or their laws to apply to America. Once again that comes down to governmental and economic forces at work.

And yes if we knew for sure that someone was selling a HIC recipe for profit we would try calling them out, but it probably would have 0 effect since most people who buy premade juice do not know who HIC is. It would be on HIC to file a lawsuit and the lawyers and courts to figure it out. However I would not be surprised if some juice companies have been using HIC recipes for a while now or at least basing some of their own recipes off his

And regardless do you hear people on this forum calling juice companies out for stealing recipes or ideas from one another like people on this forum call out an entire country for doing it over mod designs and atomizers?

But my ideas do not only apply to vaping it goes on in every industry.

I feel often on this forum...people assume China is some corrupt morally ambiguous country full of evil business men who will do and say anything, lie cheat and steal for a few yen. ANd I am sure there are people like that in China but their are people like that all over the world. SO to call China out for it when American companies and companies all over the world do the same thing is racist

What planet do you live on...I have a friend who lives in Hong Kong has lived there for 8 years he has a Chinese boyfriend, a guy born and raised going back and forth from Mainland to Hong Kong all his life...everytime my friend goes into mainland his boyfriend lectures him for an hour about not getting into any strangers cars....because he doesn't want him being left in an alley without any kidneys or eyes....now that isn't your usual tourist concern in the vast majority off the world I do bussiness with...
And what's all this crap about.."leaving clones out of the discussion"...it's the whole point...when you can openly steal your competitions desgins it drives them out of bussiness, destroying competition and creating a de facto monopoly..that's why we have patent laws for chistsakes. if we didn't there wouldn't be a reason on earth to invest in research and development for any product.